Is It Necessary to Believe in the Virgin Birth?

[CMike]

Find the LAW of Moses that Jesus broke.

Deuteronomy 13

Jesus never suggested another god. He always pointed only to the Father.

He made himself a god.

 

[LittleNipper]

Deuteronomy 13

Jesus never suggested another god. He always pointed only to the Father.

He made himself a god.

People cannot make themselves God. They either are God or they are only mortal. He was the Biblcal fulfillment of the Messiah, and as such He is GOD. Can a mere man heal the sick, feed the hungry masses, cause the blind to see, the lame to walk, bring the dead back to life, walk on water, calm the storms, make fish jump into nets, change water into wine, tell people about themselves, predict the future, and come back from the grave?

He didn't make himself God. He is GOD.

 

[there4eyeM]

Deuteronomy 13

Jesus never suggested another god. He always pointed only to the Father.

He made himself a god.

From a non-Christian:

Jesus used the name that had become too holy to speak according to contemporary Jewish law (non-PC), I AM. He inferred oneness with God since the beginning. This was not naming himself God or a god, it was demonstrating unity with deity.

 

[blackcherry]

Jesus never suggested another god. He always pointed only to the Father.

He made himself a god.

People cannot make themselves God. They either are God or they are only mortal. He was the Biblcal fulfillment of the Messiah, and as such He is GOD. Can a mere man heal the sick, feed the hungry masses, cause the blind to see, the lame to walk, bring the dead back to life, walk on water, calm the storms, make fish jump into nets, change water into wine, tell people about themselves, predict the future, and come back from the grave?

He didn't make himself God. He is GOD.

Simple people= simple beliefs = masochists= useful citizens .

 

[BecauseIKnow]

The Romans crucified Jesus. Christianity is the ultimate completion of the Jewish faith. All the early Christians were almost entirely of the Jewish faith. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was,"I am." He was calling himself God. It is not blasphemy for God to call himself God. And only God himself has the right to judge who is or isn't His begotten Son.

He didn't say 'I am', he said 'I Have'.

Link (and this better be good!).

It's simply the Greek word.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

The Romans crucified Jesus. Christianity is the ultimate completion of the Jewish faith. All the early Christians were almost entirely of the Jewish faith. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was,"I am." He was calling himself God. It is not blasphemy for God to call himself God. And only God himself has the right to judge who is or isn't His begotten Son.

He didn't say 'I am', he said 'I Have'.

No Jesus didn't. He said, "I am."
John 8:58 ►


New International Version (©1984)
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"

English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Jesus said to them, "I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am."

International Standard Version (©2012)
Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!"

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus told them, "I can guarantee this truth: Before Abraham was ever born, I am."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

American King James Version
Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.

American Standard Version
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

Darby Bible Translation
Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

English Revised Version
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Weymouth New Testament
"In most solemn truth," answered Jesus, "I tell you that before Abraham came into existence, I am."

World English Bible
Jesus said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus said to them, 'Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am;'

Christians can twist the translation all they want in their new versions. It's not the first time. But it's a Greek word that meant 'I Have'. And then the rest of the verse.

 

[ima]

Is it true that Mary was a virgin because Joseph would only fuck her in the ass? And that she would squirt out his cum and put it in her vagina? Apparently, it's what the pope said. Dunno, sounds a little fishy...

 

[there4eyeM]

Precisely what sense would "I have" make in the context? Are you saying Jesus had a problem with language? Where is any, ANY, indication other than here that Jesus said "I have"?

References were requested.

 

[there4eyeM]

Perhaps the poster is confusing the present simple, "I am" with the present perfect, "I have been". Either verb form has the same sense. But, if he had said, "I have", there would have been no problem and no one would have been upset.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus never suggested another god. He always pointed only to the Father.

He made himself a god.

From a non-Christian:

Jesus used the name that had become too holy to speak according to contemporary Jewish law (non-PC), I AM. He inferred oneness with God since the beginning. This was not naming himself God or a god, it was demonstrating unity with deity.

Jesus said he existed before Abraham and was at one already. Jesus inferred that He was God. The Holy Spirit enlightens me, as He did Peter, that Jesus is God. What you wish to accept is of your own interpretation. It places you outside of God's family.

 

[there4eyeM]

He made himself a god.

From a non-Christian:

Jesus used the name that had become too holy to speak according to contemporary Jewish law (non-PC), I AM. He inferred oneness with God since the beginning. This was not naming himself God or a god, it was demonstrating unity with deity.

Jesus said he existed before Abraham and was at one already. Jesus inferred that He was God. The Holy Spirit enlightens me, as He did Peter, that Jesus is God. What you wish to accept is of your own interpretation. It places you outside of God's family.

Interesting to hear you speak for God. I'll take it up in our next conversation.

Stating that he was one with God is not precisely the same thing as saying he was God. There is a nuance, though it seems with absolutists nuance is usually overlooked.

Your testimony of enlightenment is only based upon your word. It is valid for you and only for you.

"Thanks for playing", as they say here.

 

[ima]

He made himself a god.

From a non-Christian:

Jesus used the name that had become too holy to speak according to contemporary Jewish law (non-PC), I AM. He inferred oneness with God since the beginning. This was not naming himself God or a god, it was demonstrating unity with deity.

Jesus said he existed before Abraham and was at one already. Jesus inferred that He was God. The Holy Spirit enlightens me, as He did Peter, that Jesus is God. What you wish to accept is of your own interpretation. It places you outside of God's family.

Can't be, because if god created everyone, then we're all related to him.

 

[Derideo_Te]

He made himself a god.

From a non-Christian:

Jesus used the name that had become too holy to speak according to contemporary Jewish law (non-PC), I AM. He inferred oneness with God since the beginning. This was not naming himself God or a god, it was demonstrating unity with deity.

Jesus said he existed before Abraham and was at one already. Jesus inferred that He was God. The Holy Spirit enlightens me, as He did Peter, that Jesus is God. What you wish to accept is of your own interpretation. It places you outside of God's family.

Who are you to decide who is and isn't part of your deity's family?

 

[there4eyeM]

From a non-Christian:

Jesus used the name that had become too holy to speak according to contemporary Jewish law (non-PC), I AM. He inferred oneness with God since the beginning. This was not naming himself God or a god, it was demonstrating unity with deity.

Jesus said he existed before Abraham and was at one already. Jesus inferred that He was God. The Holy Spirit enlightens me, as He did Peter, that Jesus is God. What you wish to accept is of your own interpretation. It places you outside of God's family.

Can't be, because if god created everyone, then we're all related to him.

A point often forgotten by those who profess to believe in God without any understanding of what such a God would have to be and the reality of God's creating all.

 

[CMike]

Jesus never suggested another god. He always pointed only to the Father.

He made himself a god.

People cannot make themselves God. They either are God or they are only mortal. He was the Biblcal fulfillment of the Messiah, and as such He is GOD. Can a mere man heal the sick, feed the hungry masses, cause the blind to see, the lame to walk, bring the dead back to life, walk on water, calm the storms, make fish jump into nets, change water into wine, tell people about themselves, predict the future, and come back from the grave?

He didn't make himself God. He is GOD.

Several points.

1) You are right he didn't make himself a god. He falsely claimed that he was a god.

2) He didn't fulfill the messenaic prophesies which are in Michah 4:3 and Ezekiel 37.

3) A lot of people at that day practiced black magic. Look at what the magicians during Pharaoh did. Also, those stories were greatly eggagerated.

Deuteronomy 13


2. If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

3. and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"


4. you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.

5. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him.



6. And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from your midst.

7. If your brother, the son of your mother, tempts you in secret or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your embrace, or your friend, who is as your own soul saying, "Let us go and worship other gods, which neither you, nor your forefathers have known."
8. Of the gods of the peoples around you, [whether] near to you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth;


9. You shall not desire him, and you shall not hearken to him; neither shall you pity him, have mercy upon him, nor shield him.

10. But you shall surely kill him, your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

11. And you shall stone him with stones so that he dies, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.


12. And all Israel shall listen and fear, and they shall no longer do any evil such as this in your midst.

13. If you hear in one of your cities which the Lord, your God, is giving you to dwell therein, saying,


14. "Unfaithful men have gone forth from among you and have led the inhabitants of their city astray, saying, 'Let us go and worship other gods, which you have not known.' "
15. Then you shall inquire, investigate, and ask thoroughly, and, behold, it is true, the matter is certain, that such abomination has been committed in your midst:

16. You shall surely strike down the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroy it with all that is in it and its livestock, with the edge of the sword.

17. And you shall collect all its spoil into the midst of its open square, and burn with fire the city and all its spoil, completely, for the Lord, your God; and it shall be a heap of destruction forever, never to be rebuilt.

18. And nothing that is doomed to destruction shall cling to your hand, so that the Lord may return from His fierce wrath, and grant you compassion, and be compassionate with you, and multiply you, as He swore to your forefathers.


19. For you shall hearken to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep all His commandments which I command you this day, to do that which is proper in the eyes of the Lord, your God.

 

[KaliAndersson]

If one does not believe in the Virgin birth, it seems to me that everything else falls in Christianity.
The death of our Savior for our sins, the Resurrection,everything....He was the long awaited one or He was not, if there was not a virgin birth would not everything about Christianity be a lie?
I learned that when I went with the neighbor kids to a little Church outside of Davis.Oklahoma when I was seven years old.

 

[ima]

If you don't believe in the virgin birth, you're not a christian. Christians need their fairy tales.

 

[blackcherry]

If one does not believe in the Virgin birth, it seems to me that everything else falls in Christianity.
The death of our Savior for our sins, the Resurrection,everything....He was the long awaited one or He was not, if there was not a virgin birth would not everything about Christianity be a lie?
I learned that when I went with the neighbor kids to a little Church outside of Davis.Oklahoma when I was seven years old.

Very sad that you were brain washed and show no signs of recovery .
Modern scholarship reports that the Virgin Birth story was added on and at a later date . Which part of that notion can you not grasp and accept?

 

[Avatar4321]

If one does not believe in the Virgin birth, it seems to me that everything else falls in Christianity.
The death of our Savior for our sins, the Resurrection,everything....He was the long awaited one or He was not, if there was not a virgin birth would not everything about Christianity be a lie?
I learned that when I went with the neighbor kids to a little Church outside of Davis.Oklahoma when I was seven years old.

If all you knew was Christ's atonement, and you had no knowledge of the virgin birth, nor the prophecy of it, then you could still be a disciple of Christ and use the atonement in your life.

There are many things we don't know about Christ. We don't know what he did as a teenager. Does our lack of knowledge there eliminate our ability to access the Atonement?

We don't know the details of what Christ has been up to these past 2000 years. Does that mean He is any less our Savior? Does that mean salvation is any less accessible.

Yes, getting more knowledge and truth is good. In fact, it's encouraged. But just because we don't know everything, doesn't mean we have any less access to the blessings, or that we wont learn it eventually.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you don't believe in the virgin birth, you're not a christian. Christians need their fairy tales.

Last time I checked, all one has to believe is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins to be a Christian. It's a pretty basic definition. You might not be an orthodox Christian if you have doubts about the virgin birth, but that doesn't make you non-Christian.

As I have stated, I see no reason to disbelieve the virgin birth. We can impregnate a virgin in a laboratory, why should I disbelieve that an all knowing, all powerful God couldn't cause a virgin to concieve and give birth?