Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?

[ChrisL]

What makes your god any more "real" than . . . ?

Reason and experience.

Examples? There is really no more evidence for any other Gods than there is for Zeus. There are books about him too. Lots of people used to believe in him. Some people still might believe in him.

Make up your mind what you want to talk about. Religion? A Higher Power? Or a specific God? Which is it. Or would you like me to do all three?

Religion? Well that obviously exists. Make your case for your god.

God or Gods?

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

 

[ding]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

Not at all. There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator". That's why it is called "faith".

So why can't what He created be used as evidence?

 

[ChrisL]

Nothing, and that is the point. There is nothing convincing about it for me. My opinion on religion is not "ignorant." I've done a lot of studying into religion. I've read the Bible. I've been to church. I reject those teachings as BS. There is nothing to argue about. You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine.

Except the case for religion is convincing.

Maybe to you it is.

Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage.

I don't think religion is a "bad" thing necessarily. They do a lot of good. They also do bad though. The church is an institution made up of human beings who are ALL fallible. As for God or Gods, I just simply don't believe in the concept.

It is a sight better than a world without it. Lot's of practical applications that naturally lead to success. We've already seen what your world would look like.

Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.

 

[ChrisL]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

Not at all. There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator". That's why it is called "faith".

So why can't what He created be used as evidence?

Because there is no evidence that "He" created anything at all. Do you think cavemen and women worshiped your same god? If not, did all of those people burn in Hell? I mean there was no Jesus to forgive them from the original sin, right? Or do you not believe in cavemen (that would be a belief in the theory of evolution after all, and I've already been told how STUPID that theory is - lol).

 

[ding]

Reason and experience.

Examples? There is really no more evidence for any other Gods than there is for Zeus. There are books about him too. Lots of people used to believe in him. Some people still might believe in him.

Make up your mind what you want to talk about. Religion? A Higher Power? Or a specific God? Which is it. Or would you like me to do all three?

Religion? Well that obviously exists. Make your case for your god.

God or Gods?

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

 

[K9Buck]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

Not at all. There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator". That's why it is called "faith".

Someone had to give that initial push to "cause" the big bang, right? Unless, of course, one makes the leap to believe that the universe caused itself to come into existence. I agree this isn't proof, but I believe it is "evidence".

 

[ding]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

Not at all. There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator". That's why it is called "faith".

So why can't what He created be used as evidence?

Because there is no evidence that "He" created anything at all. Do you think cavemen and women worshiped your same god? If not, did all of those people burn in Hell? I mean there was no Jesus to forgive them from the original sin, right? Or do you not believe in cavemen (that would be a belief in the theory of evolution after all, and I've already been told how STUPID that theory is - lol).

If you created a cell phone and I found it and didn't know who created it, could I use that cell phone as evidence?

 

[ChrisL]

Examples? There is really no more evidence for any other Gods than there is for Zeus. There are books about him too. Lots of people used to believe in him. Some people still might believe in him.

Make up your mind what you want to talk about. Religion? A Higher Power? Or a specific God? Which is it. Or would you like me to do all three?

Religion? Well that obviously exists. Make your case for your god.

God or Gods?

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

 

[westwall]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

Not at all. There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator". That's why it is called "faith".

Someone had to give that initial push to "cause" the big bang, right? Unless, of course, one makes the leap to believe that the universe caused itself to come into existence. I agree this isn't proof, but I believe it is "evidence".

We have no idea. We KNOW that things spontaneously combust. Who's to say the Big Bang wasn't spontaneous?

 

[ChrisL]

Note to self, brainwashing is a powerful thing, that is for sure. Lol.

 

[K9Buck]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

Not at all. There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator". That's why it is called "faith".

Someone had to give that initial push to "cause" the big bang, right? Unless, of course, one makes the leap to believe that the universe caused itself to come into existence. I agree this isn't proof, but I believe it is "evidence".

We have no idea. We KNOW that things spontaneously combust. Who's to say the Big Bang wasn't spontaneous?

I'd like to believe that matter, space and time created itself, I just don't have the faith.

 

[K9Buck]

 

[westwall]

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

Not at all. There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator". That's why it is called "faith".

Someone had to give that initial push to "cause" the big bang, right? Unless, of course, one makes the leap to believe that the universe caused itself to come into existence. I agree this isn't proof, but I believe it is "evidence".

We have no idea. We KNOW that things spontaneously combust. Who's to say the Big Bang wasn't spontaneous?

I'd like to believe that matter, space and time created itself, I just don't have the faith.

I find it interesting that the description of creation in the book of genesis, and cosmological descriptions of the Big Bang, are remarkably close.

 

[ding]

Make up your mind what you want to talk about. Religion? A Higher Power? Or a specific God? Which is it. Or would you like me to do all three?

Religion? Well that obviously exists. Make your case for your god.

God or Gods?

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

 

[westwall]

Religion? Well that obviously exists. Make your case for your god.

God or Gods?

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

It is certainly the hypothesis of a theist. But the logic is unsupported by fact. You have supposition only. Supposition is not fact.

 

[ding]

Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.

Since I believe there is meaning from suffering, when I experience difficulties I see the meaning and look for other ways I can give more. The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint and I don't see you one who suffers without complaining.

Note to self, brainwashing is a powerful thing, that is for sure. Lol.

It's comments like this that lead me to hold the above opinion. But putting that aside, I see it the other way around.

 

[ChrisL]

Religion? Well that obviously exists. Make your case for your god.

God or Gods?

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

I am doing no such thing. I am simply explaining how I feel about it and how it is not believable at all or in any way for me. Like I said, it is just as believable as Zeus.

 

[ding]

God or Gods?

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

It is certainly the hypothesis of a theist. But the logic is unsupported by fact. You have supposition only. Supposition is not fact.

I've got science all the way back to the beginning (as best we can) and I have reason and logic for before that point and I have what has unfolded since that time and what that tells us.

 

[ChrisL]

Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.

Since I believe there is meaning from suffering, when I experience difficulties I see the meaning and look for other ways I can give more. The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint and I don't see you one who suffers without complaining.

Note to self, brainwashing is a powerful thing, that is for sure. Lol.

It's comments like this that lead me to hold the above opinion. But putting that aside, I see it the other way around.

Well, who cares what you think you see. I doubt if you see much, TBH.

 

[ChrisL]

Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.

Since I believe there is meaning from suffering, when I experience difficulties I see the meaning and look for other ways I can give more. The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint and I don't see you one who suffers without complaining.

Note to self, brainwashing is a powerful thing, that is for sure. Lol.

It's comments like this that lead me to hold the above opinion. But putting that aside, I see it the other way around.

Give? Is that what you call what you do around here? Ba-ha-ha! That's hilarious.