Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?

[ding]

God or Gods?

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

I am doing no such thing. I am simply explaining how I feel about it and how it is not believable at all or in any way for me. Like I said, it is just as believable as Zeus.

Great then make your case for Zeus because that is an ignorant statement. There is no case. I actually have a case so for you to say that is ridiculous.

 

[westwall]

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

It is certainly the hypothesis of a theist. But the logic is unsupported by fact. You have supposition only. Supposition is not fact.

I've got science all the way back to the beginning (as best we can) and I have reason and logic for before that point and I have what has unfolded since that time and what that tells us.

Yes, but your position is entirely based on supposition. You declare that the Laws of Physics require an intellect to be. I say that the Universe functions based on the Laws of Physics that simply are.

 

[ChrisL]

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else. It is so . . . typical.

 

[ding]

Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.

Since I believe there is meaning from suffering, when I experience difficulties I see the meaning and look for other ways I can give more. The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint and I don't see you one who suffers without complaining.

Note to self, brainwashing is a powerful thing, that is for sure. Lol.

It's comments like this that lead me to hold the above opinion. But putting that aside, I see it the other way around.

Give? Is that what you call what you do around here? Ba-ha-ha! That's hilarious.

Yep, that's right. Of course you can't understand it. You wouldn't get anything out of it.

 

[ChrisL]

You have more than one god? Okay, whatevs. Make your case for all of your gods.

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

I am doing no such thing. I am simply explaining how I feel about it and how it is not believable at all or in any way for me. Like I said, it is just as believable as Zeus.

Great then make your case for Zeus because that is an ignorant statement. There is no case. I actually have a case so for you to say that is ridiculous.

Err. Like I said, for me, God is just as believable as Zeus, which means it is not believable at all. Lol.

Now, you say you have evidence of a God (the one and only person in the WORLD apparently - lol), so show it. Show your evidence.

 

[ChrisL]

Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.

Since I believe there is meaning from suffering, when I experience difficulties I see the meaning and look for other ways I can give more. The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint and I don't see you one who suffers without complaining.

Note to self, brainwashing is a powerful thing, that is for sure. Lol.

It's comments like this that lead me to hold the above opinion. But putting that aside, I see it the other way around.

Give? Is that what you call what you do around here? Ba-ha-ha! That's hilarious.

Yep, that's right. Of course you can't understand it. You wouldn't get anything out of it.

Understand that you are a prick to everyone? That is quite clear and there is nothing to understand about it. Some things just ARE.

 

[ChrisL]

Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.

Since I believe there is meaning from suffering, when I experience difficulties I see the meaning and look for other ways I can give more. The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint and I don't see you one who suffers without complaining.

Note to self, brainwashing is a powerful thing, that is for sure. Lol.

It's comments like this that lead me to hold the above opinion. But putting that aside, I see it the other way around.

Give? Is that what you call what you do around here? Ba-ha-ha! That's hilarious.

Yep, that's right. Of course you can't understand it. You wouldn't get anything out of it.

I wonder if you think you are a good spokesperson for your god? Do you represent what He stands for?

 

[ChrisL]

Are the so called "religious" and "god fearing" peeps in this thread setting an example of what we should all strive to be?

 

[ChrisL]

I see a lot of hate, anger and unhappiness. That is what I see.

 

[ding]

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else. It is so . . . typical.

Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument. I'm a real shit. No saint at all. You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you. Not the case. Nothing special about me.

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws. Often time you get away with it. But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely as successful behaviors lead to success. It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it. It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.

 

[ChrisL]

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else. It is so . . . typical.

Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument. I'm a real shit. No saint at all. You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you. Not the case. Nothing special about me.

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws. Often time you get away with it. But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely as successful behaviors lead to success. It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it. It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.

I can have morals without having a religious belief. In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values. The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof. It is as simple as that. I have no "faith" in a god. There is nothing more to it.

 

[ChrisL]

Now, back to the topic at hand about homosexuals being sinners. Is this a huge sin that should really worry you? I would think there are a lot of sins that rate much higher on the list than a homosexual. I've noticed very few responses when you bring adultery into the conversation. Does anyone here feel that is a bigger sin than homosexuality? My argument for it being a worse sin is that it is an actual promise that you made before and to your God that you broke. You were CLEARLY taken over by devils or demons at the time of the infidelity. You were weak and allowed these devils to enter your body and brain and make you do terrible things. It is actually one of THE 10 commandments, which are THE moral code of most Christian people.

 

[ding]

Ummm... common sense says there's only one Creator. Please tell me that you aren't one of those idiots who confuses understanding of God for multiple gods, ok?

So try not to bring up who God is while we are discussing the case for God. Fair enough?

I said "make your case for your god," and you said "God or gods?" Which one would think means that you believe in more than one god.

No. It's because your kind is disingenuous and switching back and forth between the three all the while trying to bring in specific theological precepts for the express purpose of muddying the water.

I've already started establishing that what was created can be used as evidence.

We exist in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything happened for a reason. Otherwise known as cause and effect. Everything has unfolded per the laws of nature. Laws which existed before space and time. Laws which controlled the creation of space and time. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature. Given enough time and the right conditions, beings that know and create will arise. The potential for beings that know and create existed before space and time were created. All energy and matter which exists today was created when space and time came into existence. Since that time it has merely changed form. Which means that the energy which makes up who we are was present when space and time were created. You can't know what something is by how it starts. You can only know what something is by what it is when it is finished. In this case the product of these rules is intelligence. We live in a universe that is defined by rules. Intelligence is behind rules. Rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, mind has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

We can confirm this in a myriad of a number of ways.

It is certainly the hypothesis of a theist. But the logic is unsupported by fact. You have supposition only. Supposition is not fact.

I've got science all the way back to the beginning (as best we can) and I have reason and logic for before that point and I have what has unfolded since that time and what that tells us.

Yes, but your position is entirely based on supposition. You declare that the Laws of Physics require an intellect to be. I say that the Universe functions based on the Laws of Physics that simply are.

Then everything in science is supposition as supposition can mean theory. So, I'm not sure what your distinction is implying.

Is the universe becoming self aware of itself supposition?

 

[ding]

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else. It is so . . . typical.

Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument. I'm a real shit. No saint at all. You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you. Not the case. Nothing special about me.

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws. Often time you get away with it. But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely as successful behaviors lead to success. It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it. It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.

I can have morals without having a religious belief. In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values. The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof. It is as simple as that. I have no "faith" in a god. There is nothing more to it.

Sure. But there's a good chance they are relativistic.

 

[ding]

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else. It is so . . . typical.

Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument. I'm a real shit. No saint at all. You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you. Not the case. Nothing special about me.

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws. Often time you get away with it. But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely as successful behaviors lead to success. It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it. It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.

I can have morals without having a religious belief. In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values. The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof. It is as simple as that. I have no "faith" in a god. There is nothing more to it.

Do you believe it is moral to end a human life?

 

[ding]

Sure, some people probably NEED religion in order to be "good." I don't have this need.

Since I believe there is meaning from suffering, when I experience difficulties I see the meaning and look for other ways I can give more. The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint and I don't see you one who suffers without complaining.

Note to self, brainwashing is a powerful thing, that is for sure. Lol.

It's comments like this that lead me to hold the above opinion. But putting that aside, I see it the other way around.

Give? Is that what you call what you do around here? Ba-ha-ha! That's hilarious.

Yep, that's right. Of course you can't understand it. You wouldn't get anything out of it.

I wonder if you think you are a good spokesperson for your god? Do you represent what He stands for?

I'm sure He thinks I'm horrible.

 

[ChrisL]

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else. It is so . . . typical.

Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument. I'm a real shit. No saint at all. You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you. Not the case. Nothing special about me.

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws. Often time you get away with it. But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely as successful behaviors lead to success. It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it. It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.

I can have morals without having a religious belief. In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values. The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof. It is as simple as that. I have no "faith" in a god. There is nothing more to it.

Do you believe it is moral to end a human life?

That depends upon the circumstances. Is the person suffering from a terminal disease and is in constant pain and does the person want to die? Is it a serial killer who is so far gone, there is no hope for any kind of meaningful rehabilitation and re-entrance into society because he or she is too dangerous?

 

[ding]

I see a lot of hate, anger and unhappiness. That is what I see.

 

[ding]

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else. It is so . . . typical.

Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument. I'm a real shit. No saint at all. You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you. Not the case. Nothing special about me.

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws. Often time you get away with it. But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely as successful behaviors lead to success. It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it. It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.

I can have morals without having a religious belief. In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values. The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof. It is as simple as that. I have no "faith" in a god. There is nothing more to it.

Do you believe it is moral to end a human life?

That depends upon the circumstances. Is the person suffering from a terminal disease and is in constant pain and does the person want to die? Is it a serial killer who is so far gone, there is no hope for any kind of meaningful rehabilitation and re-entrance into society because he or she is too dangerous?

A baby in the womb.

 

[ChrisL]

I LOVE it when the so called "religious folks" try to act as if they are "good" or "better" than somebody else. It is so . . . typical.

Ummm... I didn't see me making that argument. I'm a real shit. No saint at all. You are equating the advantage my faith provides me as somehow me thinking I am better than you. Not the case. Nothing special about me.

There are moral laws just like there are physical laws. With physical laws the consequence of violating it is immediate, not so for moral laws. Often time you get away with it. But make no mistake failed behaviors naturally lead to failure just as surely as successful behaviors lead to success. It is just a matter of time and in this way consciousness evolves just like every other stage of evolution before it. It actually follows a set pattern which is similar to the technology cycle.

I can have morals without having a religious belief. In fact, I actually do have very strong moral values. The entire concept of god or gods is just too ridiculous and outrageous for me to ever believe without some serious solid proof. It is as simple as that. I have no "faith" in a god. There is nothing more to it.

Do you believe it is moral to end a human life?

That depends upon the circumstances. Is the person suffering from a terminal disease and is in constant pain and does the person want to die? Is it a serial killer who is so far gone, there is no hope for any kind of meaningful rehabilitation and re-entrance into society because he or she is too dangerous?

A baby in the womb.

I don't think it is moral to have an abortion. I would not have one. However, that is not my decision to make for another woman. I am not her. I am not in her shoes. Some people are probably mentally/emotionally incapable of being parents. There are cases of HORRIBLE abuse where children are actually murdered by their own parents. Would those children have been better off never existing at all? I don't know.