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Nonsense, my little narrative twister. You equate The Far Left with the Left, and by implication, the mainstream democrats. The rational left also admires Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Paine, Locke, Lincoln, and so forth. Just like the right does.
See, you don't get to revise history as if it is your own particular little garden to hoe.
Ok, explain the rational left and the far left to me? I'm talking about as it is NOW. Not things like classical liberalism. I'm a conservative, that IS a classical liberal (hence I dont support monarchy and am for as much freedom as possible) Who is rational liberal and who is far left?
No, you made the claim about the left, so it is your row to hoe, failed farmer.
And if you are talking about NOW, then your examples FROM BACK THEN don't count.
You are not a Classical Liberal if you are suggesting that such do not exist to the left of center as they do to the right of center. Classical Liberals tell the truth.
great post, but what's funny is when those labels are given that diversity is ALREADY taken into account. It's kind of the degree.
I like how liberals always try to get out of the labels, by saying that it's all or nothing. If I bet money that a serial killer was white or a black person would eat fried chicken, of course it's not ALWAYS that way, it's the percentages just work out that way
And if you dont like labels and categories, blame Aritstotle, he started and humans love em. It simplifies things and works better than you're willing to admit.
All true until libertarians and the far right (Oddball, Pale Rider, NeoTrotsky) want to make up their own definitions and insist we accept them despite historical and political tradition and narrative.
Sorry, didnt make em up. You have two main idelological concepts. American and European, which are somewhat related but have different historical reasons. The left Wing admires Marx, Rousseau, Debois, Keynes and the French Revolution. The right admires, Burke, Smith, Raynd, Hayek and the American Revolution. An over simplification, but that's the point. Due tell us your thoughts?
Classical liberalism (also known as traditional liberalism[1], laissez-faire liberalism[2], market liberalism[3] or, outside the United States and Britain, sometimes simply liberalism) is a doctrine stressing individual freedom and limited government.
This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, individual freedom from restraint, constitutional limitation of government, free markets, and a gold standard to place fiscal constraints on government[4] as exemplified in the writings of John Locke, Adam Smith, David Hume, David Ricardo, Voltaire, Montesquieu and others.
As such, it is the fusion of economic liberalism with political liberalism of the late 18th and 19th centuries.[2] The "normative core" of classical liberalism is the idea that laissez-faire economics will bring about a spontaneous order or invisible hand that benefits the society,[5] though it does not necessarily oppose the state's provision of some basic public goods with what constitutes public goods being seen as very limited.[6]
The qualification classical was applied retroactively to distinguish it from more recent, 20th-century conceptions of liberalism and its related movements, such as social liberalism[7] and other forms of Collectivism, which promote a more interventionist role for the state in personal matters of the individual. Classical liberals are suspicious of all but the most minimal government[8] and object to the welfare state[9].
Ok, explain the rational left and the far left to me? I'm talking about as it is NOW. Not things like classical liberalism. I'm a conservative, that IS a classical liberal (hence I dont support monarchy and am for as much freedom as possible) Who is rational liberal and who is far left?
No, you made the claim about the left, so it is your row to hoe, failed farmer.
And if you are talking about NOW, then your examples FROM BACK THEN don't count.
You are not a Classical Liberal if you are suggesting that such do not exist to the left of center as they do to the right of center. Classical Liberals tell the truth.
Sorry bro, what examples? Are you saying the NEW left doesnt like Marx or Rousseau or have a fondness for the French Revolution? Is that what you are saying?
WHo is the left of center, rational left? Got any EXAMPLES?
Is obama a socilist, or a fascist?
He's an American.
But I believe Republicans are on the side of al Qaeda.
1. They let Bin Laden go
Who did?I mean with all the information from waterboarding terrorists to get Bin Laden I guess you like it now, funny how results matter to democrats, except when it comes to their own programs
2. They invited al Qaeda into Iraq
Sorry al Qaeda was already in Iraq before we invaded, another lie
3. They bankupted this nation
So you're against Obama spending more in 4 years than Bush did in 8, I'm glad you see our side of it finally.
4. They sent our troops to Iraq with old and rusty equipmnet
And I guess you're agaisnt cutting defense then, need that NEW equipment
5. Bush said he stopped thinking about Bin Laden
yep, he did, didnt say he stopped going after him, but you'll probably belive they did, but somehow Obama just started it right back up and got no information from "interrogation". tell me when you see a unicorn
6. They gave no bid contracts in Iraq. Substandard housing was built and troops were electrocuted.
please give a link on this. You're for getting rid of no bid contracts? Run that by Pelosi and Reid and watch them laugh at you
7. They have done nothing for returning veterans
At least they dont spit on them
8. They want to cuts benefits for veterans
http://militaryadvantage.military.com/2011/10/mccain-okay-with-cutting-military-benefits/ SAys McCain joined OBAMA on cuts
9. They call the president a "socialist and fascist".
Truth hurts
10. When the economy was downgraded they said they got 98% of everything they wanted.
WTF give a link
I think the evidence is indisputable.What evidence?
That's just the top ten. I have lots more. The apology to BP. Sending jobs to China. Let him die. The list is endless.
Dean do you just get the feed from the Huff Post? I mean you're posts are boring.
And I love smacking you down like a midget wrestler.
No, you made the claim about the left, so it is your row to hoe, failed farmer.
And if you are talking about NOW, then your examples FROM BACK THEN don't count.
You are not a Classical Liberal if you are suggesting that such do not exist to the left of center as they do to the right of center. Classical Liberals tell the truth.
Sorry bro, what examples? Are you saying the NEW left doesnt like Marx or Rousseau or have a fondness for the French Revolution? Is that what you are saying?
WHo is the left of center, rational left? Got any EXAMPLES?
You made an affirmative statement, using examples of individuals from the past, then you don't support that? I said nothing about the "NEW left": you did and conflated it with left of center and dems. The French Revolution's principles were supported by the arch conservative, Jefferson.
Do you really not know American history?
You are twisting now, bud, and it is obvious.
I said Jefferson supported the principles, which you ignored. He did not support the extreme violence.
Who says, "The French Revolution was the foundation for Marxism, before Marx"? Need a critical, reputable source. And if you argue that, then you are suggesting the arch conservative Jefferson supported proto-marxism.
You conflate mainstream and left of center figures such as and groups such as Gloria Steinem, Jesse Jackson, NAACP, Gay Rights with Extreme Leftist organizations such as ELF, NAMBLA etc. See? You prove my point that you conflate extremist lefties with the Dems and left of center and mainstream.
No, "These groups are" NOT "pretty much all the same on issues and are basically like fronts (similar to money laundering, but you can call it political thought laundering)."
I agree that you, though, are political laundering with a terminology and narrative not supported by our historical and political definitions and history.
The great majority all "in socialism as taught by Marx." "They" ALL "dont like private property, they HATE gun rights, they want everyone unionized, they want large taxes, they all believe in abortion (NO restrictions), they are all backers of gay rights, and they all fight for criminals (ie parole, lenient sentances, ect) . . ."? No, not at all.
No, you have done most of the talking but no critical thinking. Try again or fail.
I suspect, in fact, you are an extremist on the far right, far out of the American mainstream trying to pretend you are a GOP member.
You are not any such thing.
You are twisting now, bud, and it is obvious.
I said Jefferson supported the principles, which you ignored. He did not support the extreme violence.
Who says, "The French Revolution was the foundation for Marxism, before Marx"? Need a critical, reputable source. And if you argue that, then you are suggesting the arch conservative Jefferson supported proto-marxism.
You conflate mainstream and left of center figures such as and groups such as Gloria Steinem, Jesse Jackson, NAACP, Gay Rights with Extreme Leftist organizations such as ELF, NAMBLA etc. See? You prove my point that you conflate extremist lefties with the Dems and left of center and mainstream.
No, "These groups are" NOT "pretty much all the same on issues and are basically like fronts (similar to money laundering, but you can call it political thought laundering)."
I agree that you, though, are political laundering with a terminology and narrative not supported by our historical and political definitions and history.
The great majority all "in socialism as taught by Marx." "They" ALL "dont like private property, they HATE gun rights, they want everyone unionized, they want large taxes, they all believe in abortion (NO restrictions), they are all backers of gay rights, and they all fight for criminals (ie parole, lenient sentances, ect) . . ."? No, not at all.
No, you have done most of the talking but no critical thinking. Try again or fail.
I suspect, in fact, you are an extremist on the far right, far out of the American mainstream trying to pretend you are a GOP member.
You are not any such thing.
Like I said Jefferson agreed with it at first, Heck even Burke did, but the violence is horrible, yet you still have new left people that LOVE the French Revolution and not just the begining.
Jake you criticise, so who are the "rational" left? Please educate me on the difference and who is in the side of liberalism?
You really think the NAACP is less radical than PETA? I mean what do they disagree on? OR is PETA part of the "rational" left?
So post something for us to look at.
You are twisting now, bud, and it is obvious.
I said Jefferson supported the principles, which you ignored. He did not support the extreme violence.
Who says, "The French Revolution was the foundation for Marxism, before Marx"? Need a critical, reputable source. And if you argue that, then you are suggesting the arch conservative Jefferson supported proto-marxism.
You conflate mainstream and left of center figures such as and groups such as Gloria Steinem, Jesse Jackson, NAACP, Gay Rights with Extreme Leftist organizations such as ELF, NAMBLA etc. See? You prove my point that you conflate extremist lefties with the Dems and left of center and mainstream.
No, "These groups are" NOT "pretty much all the same on issues and are basically like fronts (similar to money laundering, but you can call it political thought laundering)."
I agree that you, though, are political laundering with a terminology and narrative not supported by our historical and political definitions and history.
The great majority all "in socialism as taught by Marx." "They" ALL "dont like private property, they HATE gun rights, they want everyone unionized, they want large taxes, they all believe in abortion (NO restrictions), they are all backers of gay rights, and they all fight for criminals (ie parole, lenient sentances, ect) . . ."? No, not at all.
No, you have done most of the talking but no critical thinking. Try again or fail.
I suspect, in fact, you are an extremist on the far right, far out of the American mainstream trying to pretend you are a GOP member.
You are not any such thing.
Like I said Jefferson agreed with it at first, Heck even Burke did, but the violence is horrible, yet you still have new left people that LOVE the French Revolution and not just the begining.
Jake you criticise, so who are the "rational" left? Please educate me on the difference and who is in the side of liberalism?
You really think the NAACP is less radical than PETA? I mean what do they disagree on? OR is PETA part of the "rational" left?
So post something for us to look at.
You still conflate the New Left with the center, left of center, and democrats. They are not the same thing. Yes, the right and the left agree with the principles of the French Revolution, just not the violence.
You have yet to prove the French Revolution was protoMarxist. What a stupid comment by you, you know that?
The NAACP, women's lib, etc. are not PETA, ELF, or NAMBLA, and you know it.
You are getting your ass kicked because you are getting splattered with your tar brush.
Trying be historical and accurate: OK?
The point Sowell was trying to make was that though obama's world view is of Socialism, he is, at this point, more Fascist. He is obviously not so beloved that he could suspend elections, so in order to retain power for him and his party, he must favor Fascism where though the means of production are controlled by government, they remain in the hands of corporations.To me, Obama is mostly Marxist. I think that was included in his upbringing and reinforced in those 20 or so years that he was tutored in liberation theology at the knee of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. I do not think he loves his country or has any concept of American exceptionalism, but rather sees his Presidency as the vehicle to push us closer to the Marxist utopia that he sees through a glass darkly.
The process to get to a Marxist utopia of necessity requires embracing a period of socialism and also some facist tactics to wrest control from the people and place it with the dictator or other strong central totalitarian government who will finally be able to implement the utopian concepts. Obama's latest countermanding of the immigration laws via executive order is just one more nut and bolt in the process.
Almost all dictators/totalitarian governments come to power by promising great concepts, thus the people initially support the dictator. Unfortunately, once the dictator achieves the power, he or they find they like having it and never get to the part where the power is given back to the people to live in utopian peace and plenty.
Is obama a socilist, or a fascist?
He's an American.
But I believe Republicans are on the side of al Qaeda.
1. They let Bin Laden go
2. They invited al Qaeda into Iraq
3. They bankupted this nation
4. They sent our troops to Iraq with old and rusty equipmnet
5. Bush said he stopped thinking about Bin Laden
6. They gave no bid contracts in Iraq. Substandard housing was built and troops were electrocuted.
7. They have done nothing for returning veterans
8. They want to cuts benefits for veterans
9. They call the president a "socialist and fascist".
10. When the economy was downgraded they said they got 98% of everything they wanted.
I think the evidence is indisputable.
That's just the top ten. I have lots more. The apology to BP. Sending jobs to China. Let him die. The list is endless.
The point Sowell was trying to make was that though obama's world view is of Socialism, he is, at this point, more Fascist. He is obviously not so beloved that he could suspend elections, so in order to retain power for him and his party, he must favor Fascism where though the means of production are controlled by government, they remain in the hands of corporations.To me, Obama is mostly Marxist. I think that was included in his upbringing and reinforced in those 20 or so years that he was tutored in liberation theology at the knee of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. I do not think he loves his country or has any concept of American exceptionalism, but rather sees his Presidency as the vehicle to push us closer to the Marxist utopia that he sees through a glass darkly.
The process to get to a Marxist utopia of necessity requires embracing a period of socialism and also some facist tactics to wrest control from the people and place it with the dictator or other strong central totalitarian government who will finally be able to implement the utopian concepts. Obama's latest countermanding of the immigration laws via executive order is just one more nut and bolt in the process.
Almost all dictators/totalitarian governments come to power by promising great concepts, thus the people initially support the dictator. Unfortunately, once the dictator achieves the power, he or they find they like having it and never get to the part where the power is given back to the people to live in utopian peace and plenty.
This way, he can take credit for successes, but still has the CEO's to blame for the failures.
General Motors for example. Government essentially forced them to build cars no one wanted to buy, but when they nearly went under from it, government didn't relax control, they took more, and still blamed corporate greed. THAT people is classic Fascism.
The sad part is that Progressives buy the excuses.
What's the point in labeling anyone according to ideologies such liberal or conservative. If you exclude the political junkies and pundits, most people have conservative views on some issue, liberal views on others and conflicting views on still other issues. We should evaluate solutions to our problems based on their own merit, without concern as to weather it passes some ideological litmus test.Nonsense, my little narrative twister. You equate The Far Left with the Left, and by implication, the mainstream democrats. The rational left also admires Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Paine, Locke, Lincoln, and so forth. Just like the right does.
See, you don't get to revise history as if it is your own particular little garden to hoe.
Ok, explain the rational left and the far left to me? I'm talking about as it is NOW. Not things like classical liberalism. I'm a conservative, that IS a classical liberal (hence I dont support monarchy and am for as much freedom as possible) Who is rational liberal and who is far left?
Not necessarily. It's feasible for somebody who to be a committed marxist without saying "I, me, my, mine" incessantly.
What's the point in labeling anyone according to ideologies such liberal or conservative. If you exclude the political junkies and pundits, most people have conservative views on some issue, liberal views on others and conflicting views on still other issues. We should evaluate solutions to our problems based on their own merit, without concern as to weather it passes some ideological litmus test.Nonsense, my little narrative twister. You equate The Far Left with the Left, and by implication, the mainstream democrats. The rational left also admires Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Paine, Locke, Lincoln, and so forth. Just like the right does.
See, you don't get to revise history as if it is your own particular little garden to hoe.
Ok, explain the rational left and the far left to me? I'm talking about as it is NOW. Not things like classical liberalism. I'm a conservative, that IS a classical liberal (hence I dont support monarchy and am for as much freedom as possible) Who is rational liberal and who is far left?
