CDZ Is Slavery America's Original Sin?

[MarcATL]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

Genocide is apropos. Its the only thing that trumps America's original sin of slavery.

 

[Donald H]

What's the point of deflecting from America's racism problem? It's not the original sin, whatever the hell that's supposed to be in the minds of the christians.
But racism is the main motivator for Trump's shortlived attempt to make your country into a fascist regime.
Americans created their racism problem and they're going to have to work hard and pull together to eliminate it in the foreseeable future.
Right at the moment it appears to be an impossible task as the Trump supporters are still intent on making the problem worse.

 

[martybegan]

Quite ridiculous to suggest that it was! But it can serve as an introduction to the facts of the situation as it exists in America today.

The US Constitution failed to address the slavery issue with enough firmness and determination to put an end to the issue, due to compromises necessary to forming the union.

That lack of determination has caused the problem to fester until it has become the monstrous problem it is today. Other countries dealt with the slavery issue with enough firmness to at least reduce the problem to manageable levels. The US did not and now the problem is too big to handle.

Original sin? No one country is guilty of that any more than another.

Slavery as an issue was settled by the Civil War. The issues we face now are from the failed transition at the end of slavery as well as the failed re-integration of the rebel States back into the country. The death of Lincoln removed the one force that could have tempered the Radical Republicans while at the same time been harsh enough on the southerners to force them to change their plan to subjugate the freed slaves via proxy enslavement. JWB's bullet did far more damage to the US in the decades that followed then all the other bullets shot in the Civil War combined.

Ironically Lincoln's assassination wasn't a good thing for the South, since Lincoln had far more lenient plans than the Radicals had; he was all for getting the Southern economy back up to speed; the entire point of the war was to tax the South to pay for corporate welfare programs in the North, after all, and a ruined Southern economy was not at all what he had in mind. The Radical wanted to set up military dictatorships and abuse Southerners out of spite. They only succeeded in leaving blacks worse off and hated.

I don't think Corporate welfare was a thing in the 1800's, at least the mid 1800's. The simple cause of the war is that some people wanted out of a contract, and the other people in the contract didn't want them to leave.

Northern industries were getting subsidies yet the South declined to ask for eminent domain. Why was that?

Why would the south ask for eminent domain?

They had a Constitutional right to eminent domain not levying war against the Union.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Donald H]

That doesn't make any sense.

Seriously? Or are you looking for a way out? The idea of something being 'original sin' is what makes no sense Marty.
But a discussion on 'racism' being the immediate problem that has to be addressed is! Nearly all discussions beat around that bush but never get right into it.

 

[Unkotare]

....
But racism is the main motivator for Trump's shortlived attempt to make your country into a fascist regime.
......

That statement itself is biased nonsense.

 

[Picaro]

...Slaves were clothed and fed and housed year round; common laborers were left to starve or freeze to death or die in epidemics,....

You are actually saying that you would rather be a SLAVE than be poor and struggling - and FREE? WTF?????????

No, I'm actually saying you don't know anything about history and how the Irish and German laborers were treated compared to slaves. Those levees along the Mississippi and other places are filled with the bodies of Irish and German laborers who were just left where they fell and died building them; black people were too valuable an capital investment to be risked doing dangerous jobs like that. Same for the dock jobs along the river; they got the easy low risk jobs while the white labor got the shit jobs. You wouldn't know about that, but htose of us who actually study history consider it basic common knowledge. Just reading Fredrick Law Omstead's book on his travels to Texas alone would have pointed that out, but of course you probably never heard of Omstead, either. lol

 

[AZrailwhale]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

Exploitation, not genocide, and Europeans were exploiting each other for centuries before they landed in the Americas.

Considering the technological gap if the Europeans truly tried to wipe out the natives there wouldn't be a single Hispanic person with native blood left around.

The North, Central and South American Indians were doing a bang up job of committing genocide on each other when the Europeans arrived.

 

[Picaro]

I think it doesn't matter if it was America's "original sin" or that America did wrong in the past ... and I don't believe you can be blamed for things that happened before your birth, so I don't believe in original sin.

What's much more of a problem is that America still hasn't entirely overcome this past wrong, but still has such a hard time coming to terms with its consequences.

That is the whole point of the concept of Original Sin. That you are guilty the moment you are born, because of the actions of others before you were born.


And that is certainly how slavery and really, just about EVERYTHING, is used against this country, and especially it's White Citizens.


To justify the Left's anti-Americanism, and the anti-White racism and discrimination and oppression of whites.

Yes. The commies start with trying to invent moral equivalencies between Da Evul Xians N Stuff and the rest of the world's moral failures. Too bad they fail miserably and the white Europeans at their worst are way above and beyond the rest of the world's ethnic groups in progress and achievements re social mores and actual practice. Asians, Africans, Arabs, Indians, etc. merely just murdered their racial problems, and still do. No abolition movements were ever started by Africans and certainly never by any Muslims or South Americans, and the Chinese still practice it, they just call it something else, being commies.

 

[Unkotare]

...Slaves were clothed and fed and housed year round; common laborers were left to starve or freeze to death or die in epidemics,....

You are actually saying that you would rather be a SLAVE than be poor and struggling - and FREE? WTF?????????

No, I'm actually saying you don't know anything about history and how the Irish and German laborers were treated compared to slaves. Those levees along the Mississippi and other places are filled with the bodies of Irish and German laborers who were just left where they fell and died building them; black people were too valuable an capital investment to be risked doing dangerous jobs like that. Same for the dock jobs along the river; they got the easy low risk jobs while the white labor got the shit jobs. You wouldn't know about that, but htose of us who actually study history consider it basic common knowledge. Just reading Fredrick Law Omstead's book on his travels to Texas alone would have pointed that out, but of course you probably never heard of Omstead, either. lol

The "if you knew history" bit is the wrong track, kid. Why don't you address the question I've asked you several times now? Are you actually saying that you would rather be a SLAVE than be poor and struggling - and FREE?

 

[Donald H]

Yes. The commies start with trying to invent moral equivalencies between Da Evul Xians N Stuff and the rest of the world's moral failures. Too bad they fail miserably and the white Europeans at their worst are way above and beyond the rest of the world's ethnic groups in progress and achievements re social mores and actual practice. Asians, Africans, Arabs, Indians, etc. merely just murdered their racial problems, and still do. No abolition movements were ever started by Africans and certainly never by any Muslims or South Americans, and the Chinese still practice it, they just call it something else, being commies.

South Africa in fact demonstrated to Israel the way forward.

 

[Picaro]

I think it doesn't matter if it was America's "original sin" or that America did wrong in the past ... and I don't believe you can be blamed for things that happened before your birth, so I don't believe in original sin.

What's much more of a problem is that America still hasn't entirely overcome this past wrong, but still has such a hard time coming to terms with its consequences.

The real truth of the matter is black radicals screwed their won pooch, and the black middle class created by LBJ and the 'Great Society' programs just use the feral ghetto rats as hostages to extort more bennies for themselves while doing their best to force crappy schools and mental retardation on hood rats; they can't afford to actually educate and elevate their own people, they would lose their quotas and special bennies and privileges if that were to happen.

 

[Picaro]

Yes. The commies start with trying to invent moral equivalencies between Da Evul Xians N Stuff and the rest of the world's moral failures. Too bad they fail miserably and the white Europeans at their worst are way above and beyond the rest of the world's ethnic groups in progress and achievements re social mores and actual practice. Asians, Africans, Arabs, Indians, etc. merely just murdered their racial problems, and still do. No abolition movements were ever started by Africans and certainly never by any Muslims or South Americans, and the Chinese still practice it, they just call it something else, being commies.

South Africa in fact demonstrated to Israel the way forward.

South AFrica is a basket case of corruption and tribal racist violence; Tutu is a ridiculous fool in way above his head.

 

[Donald H]

The real truth of the matter is black radicals screwed their won pooch, and the black middle class created by LBJ and the 'Great Society' programs just use the feral ghetto rats as hostages to extort more bennies for themselves while doing their best to force crappy schools and mental retardation on hood rats; they can't afford to actually educate and elevate their own people, they would lose their quotas and special bennies and privileges if that were to happen.

That's a clumsy and provocative way of addressing the problem but it's a beginning. America has a problem with it's black population in part. People like you understand that but have no answers other than making the situation worse.

South Africa in fact demonstrated to Israel the way forward.

Any ideas?

 

[Donald H]

South AFrica is a basket case of corruption and tribal racist violence; Tutu is a ridiculous fool in way above his head.

We'll never make any progress if you're stuck with your bad feelings toward black people.

I'm good with that because you can serve as an example for a big part of your country's people.

 

[martybegan]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

Exploitation, not genocide, and Europeans were exploiting each other for centuries before they landed in the Americas.

Considering the technological gap if the Europeans truly tried to wipe out the natives there wouldn't be a single Hispanic person with native blood left around.

The North, Central and South American Indians were doing a bang up job of committing genocide on each other when the Europeans arrived.

No, they were exploiting each other, not committing genocide.

Genocide is a very specific thing.

 

[Picaro]

The real truth of the matter is black radicals screwed their won pooch, and the black middle class created by LBJ and the 'Great Society' programs just use the feral ghetto rats as hostages to extort more bennies for themselves while doing their best to force crappy schools and mental retardation on hood rats; they can't afford to actually educate and elevate their own people, they would lose their quotas and special bennies and privileges if that were to happen.

That's a clumsy and provocative way of addressing the problem but it's a beginning. America has a problem with it's black population in part. People like you understand that but have no answers other than making the situation worse.

South Africa in fact demonstrated to Israel the way forward.

Any ideas?

that's exactly the reason they're still whining about 'racism'; they even recently resorted to declaring mathematics 'racist' in their desperation to deflect from the real cause of black failure and its culture of feral violence. What is clumsy is your inane attempts at moralizing when you don't appear to possess any morals and add that in with pseudo-intellectual fashion victimhood.

 

[harmonica]

..just like interning Japanese Americans in WW2 = hindsight is 20/20 -YOU people would think differently if you lived then

Many people at that time recognized the gross injustice of fdr's concentration camps, so that excuse doesn't fly.

they weren't concentration camps ----
it was necessary for security
many people AGREED with it --so it does fly

They most certainly WERE concentration camps, by definition and by fdr's own admission.
There was no security risk, as fdr's own intelligence agents told him.
Many Americans saw the horrific injustice for what it was, so "back in them there days" does not fly as an excuse.

no they were not

As a matter of FACT, they were concentration camps. If you don't like English, find another language. In English, they were concentration camps.

How far off topic do you intend to take this poor thread?

stop the bullshit---we don't believe that bullshit --.....

To what "bullshit" are you referring?

all of it!!!!!!!!! police brutality/racism/white supremacy/concentration camps

 

[harmonica]

..just like interning Japanese Americans in WW2 = hindsight is 20/20 -YOU people would think differently if you lived then

Many people at that time recognized the gross injustice of fdr's concentration camps, so that excuse doesn't fly.

they weren't concentration camps ----
it was necessary for security
many people AGREED with it --so it does fly

They most certainly WERE concentration camps, by definition and by fdr's own admission.
There was no security risk, as fdr's own intelligence agents told him.
Many Americans saw the horrific injustice for what it was, so "back in them there days" does not fly as an excuse.

no they were not

As a matter of FACT, they were concentration camps. If you don't like English, find another language. In English, they were concentration camps.

How far off topic do you intend to take this poor thread?

stop the bullshit---we don't believe that bullshit --.....

To what "bullshit" are you referring?

all of it!!!!!!!!! police brutality/racism/white supremacy/concentration camps

There you go....let everyone see what you're all about...

yes, I'm about truth/justice/common sense/etc

 

[Picaro]

South AFrica is a basket case of corruption and tribal racist violence; Tutu is a ridiculous fool in way above his head.

We'll never make any progress if you're stuck with your bad feelings toward black people.

I'm good with that because you can serve as an example for a big part of your country's people.

lol I have no bad feelings; you just need to piss on our legs and try and make us believe it's raining. You're good with that because you're just a troll and and really could care less about solving the real problems, is all; that would mean you have to admit to some very unfashionable facts, and you don't have the balls to go against your peer group. Now we're going to get to laugh at the Democrats and their gangster extortionist Prez welch on all his Party's bullshit promises for the next few months, more riots, and more decline into Third World status.

Just try laying those facts on me that you think are unfashionable.

Yes, you'll get to laugh at the Democrats as they and Biden fail and it's especially true that you're descending into third world status.

a hint: Your country has two establishment parties that hold you captive to the wishes of the very wealthy. Trump campaigned against that and failed. You could say that he was cheated out of 4 more years in which he would have succeeded.

You could at least say that!

Not interested in changing the topic; if you want to know in detail what the 'failure' is in detail get a copy of Hugh Davis Graham's The Civil Rights Era so you will have a genuine knowledge of where 'it went wrong', then we could have a real discussion instead of you just having to parrot memes and specious opinion page rhetoric. Pay special interest to the 'Philadelphia Plan', its initial defeat by the real liberals, it's revival by George Schultz and Richard Nixon, and its consequences.

 

[flacaltenn]

The lesson: If you take a car and treat it in a manner that turns it into a wreck that's hardly capable of running and it's engine won't start reliably because of abuse, then you OWN the problems.

If you take a black person and ................................. etc. then you will OWN the problems.

You can run the car over a cliff and go buy a new one!

You can't run a human being over a cliff!

And that's the lesson!

So now that everybody should be capable of understanding the lesson, what is the solution to the problem?

There's no start date and NO END date on the practice of slavery.. What bothers me more than attempts to pin COLONIAL PRACTICES on a nation (US in America) BEFORE it existed -- is the FACT that slavery STILL FLOURISHES in the world and not a SOLE -- wants to end it.. Would rather teach kids about SINFUL beginnings of this country with made up dates -- than TELL the kids the practice of slavery is alive and well and needs to end TODAY !!!!