Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

[Campbell]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

Christianity is a bold faced man made lie so that a few can get cooperation from many and get their money. P. T. Barnum said, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" and sheep like people who donate their money to a 2000 year old dream about a ghost prove he knew what he was talking about. Ol' Hey Zeus has been warming up for a return 2000 years. He should have the front edge of that cloud worn out by now.

 

[GreatestIam]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

Having faith is a work is it not?

It is something that you must dig out of yourself and that cannot be easy.

Regards
DL

faith is not a work, it is given by God.

You still have to accept it. That is work.

If you do not wish to accept that fact then accept this other reply.

So God gives you what is required to save you while not giving the same to others.

Why are you so special as compared to another soul that God does not give faith to. All souls are created in God's image. Right?

Do you love some of your children better than others?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

It's actually in the Bible that you need both faith and good works. I'm not sure why this debate keeps going on down the centuries.

My best guess is because some Christians are too lazy and or immoral to do the work.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Romans 4:5

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Faith saves

Who justifies the ungodly if not Satan and why are Satan believers counted as righteous?


Regards
DL

 

[ninja007]

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

Having faith is a work is it not?

It is something that you must dig out of yourself and that cannot be easy.

Regards
DL

faith is not a work, it is given by God.

You still have to accept it. That is work.

If you do not wish to accept that fact then accept this other reply.

So God gives you what is required to save you while not giving the same to others.

Why are you so special as compared to another soul that God does not give faith to. All souls are created in God's image. Right?

Do you love some of your children better than others?

Regards
DL

no its not a work at all.

 

[ninja007]

Question: "How can salvation be not of works when faith is required? Isn't believing a work?"

Answer: Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” (Titus 3:5). “Not by works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is no one righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is that God’s requirement (singular) is that you believe in Him.

Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)

Suppose someone anonymously sent you a check for $1,000,000. The money is yours if you want it, but you still must endorse the check. In no way can signing your name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. You can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or your own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing your name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is the only way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

True faith cannot be considered a work because true faith involves a cessation of our works in the flesh. True faith has as its object Jesus and His work on our behalf (Matthew 11:28-29; Hebrews 4:10).

To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!


How can salvation be not of works when faith is required? Isn't believing a work?

 

[Campbell]

All

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

Having faith is a work is it not?

It is something that you must dig out of yourself and that cannot be easy.

Regards
DL

faith is not a work, it is given by God.

You still have to accept it. That is work.

If you do not wish to accept that fact then accept this other reply.

So God gives you what is required to save you while not giving the same to others.

Why are you so special as compared to another soul that God does not give faith to. All souls are created in God's image. Right?

Do you love some of your children better than others?

Regards
DL

All people are born. The religious stuff is man made horse shit!

 

[GreatestIam]

All

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

Having faith is a work is it not?

It is something that you must dig out of yourself and that cannot be easy.

Regards
DL

faith is not a work, it is given by God.

You still have to accept it. That is work.

If you do not wish to accept that fact then accept this other reply.

So God gives you what is required to save you while not giving the same to others.

Why are you so special as compared to another soul that God does not give faith to. All souls are created in God's image. Right?

Do you love some of your children better than others?

Regards
DL

All people are born. The religious stuff is man made horse shit!

It is more than that but it is definitely man made.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Question: "How can salvation be not of works when faith is required? Isn't believing a work?"

Answer: Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29);
?

You have to accept that he is your savior and that falls into a work or deed.

That is tough for a moral person as it means accepting that it is somehow good to have the innocent punished instead of the guilty.

Only immoral people will accept that premise.

Regards
DL