Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

[ninja007]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

Yet your own scriptures say you can.

Have you not read your bible?

Let me help you.


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death The following 5 quotes are why I call what your God did murder. As you can see, a sacrifice was not required.


because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.


Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]


2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


As you can see all are saved without a sacrifice.

Try again grasshopper, and perhaps try to think before looking stupid and uneducated about your own immoral views.

Regards
DL

lol, all out of context- you are clueless. Half of those are OT BEFORE Jesus came and the other half are way out of context clueless one.

 

[Blackrook]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

 

[ninja007]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

i go by the bibles view- its not my view- salvation is by faith alone in Jesus' finished work.

 

[Blackrook]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

i go by the bibles view- its not my view- salvation is by faith alone in Jesus' finished work.

Well, point me to the Bible passage where it says that faith alone saves, and good works means nothing to God.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

You have to earn your place in heaven by doing exactly what you are told by the magic sky man

You could just read the bible and find the answers that you like to ask other people....

Oh I had my turn at Catholic indoctrination
I just can't believe that people think the god in the bible doesn't demand obeisance for the reward of salvation

And apparently you managed to get through your Catholic doctrination without actually reading the bible. I repeat..if you have questions about what the bible says, and why, you should probably look to the bible for answers. They're all in there.

I'm not reading fiction these days

 

[ninja007]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

i go by the bibles view- its not my view- salvation is by faith alone in Jesus' finished work.

Well, point me to the Bible passage where it says that faith alone saves, and good works means nothing to God.

Justification is the legal act where God declares the sinner to be innocent of his or her sins. It is not that the sinner is now sinless but that he is "declared" sinless. This declaration of righteousness is being justified before God. This justification is based on the shed blood of Jesus, " . . . having now been justified by His blood . . . " (Rom. 5:9) where Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and rose again (1 Cor. 15:1-4). God imputed (reckoned to our account) the righteousness of Christ at the same time our sins were imputed to Christ when He was on the cross. That is why it says in 1 Pet. 2:24, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed." Also, 2 Cor. 5:21 says, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." Additionally, we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1) apart from works of the Law (Rom. 3:28).

To be saved means that God has delivered us (saved us) from His righteous wrathful judgment due us because of our sins against Him. It means that we will not be judged for our sins and be, therefore, sentenced to eternal damnation. To be saved means that we are justified before God. Only Christians are saved. Only Christians are justified. The issue at hand is whether or not this salvation, this justification, is attained by faith or by faith and something else.

Following is a list of verses that show that salvation/justification is by faith. Bold references are particularly pointed.

1. John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
2. Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
3. Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus."
4. Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
5. Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
6. Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
7. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
8. Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
9. Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
10. Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
11. Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
12. Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
13. Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
14. Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
15. Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
16. Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
17. Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
18. Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
19. Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
20. Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."
21. Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
22. Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
23. Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
24. Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."
25. Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."
26. Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
27. 1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."
    
    Verses Showing Justification by Faith

 

[ninja007]

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

You have to earn your place in heaven by doing exactly what you are told by the magic sky man

You could just read the bible and find the answers that you like to ask other people....

Oh I had my turn at Catholic indoctrination
I just can't believe that people think the god in the bible doesn't demand obeisance for the reward of salvation

And apparently you managed to get through your Catholic doctrination without actually reading the bible. I repeat..if you have questions about what the bible says, and why, you should probably look to the bible for answers. They're all in there.

I'm not reading fiction these days

fiction doesnt predict the future hundreds of times.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

You have to earn your place in heaven by doing exactly what you are told by the magic sky man

You could just read the bible and find the answers that you like to ask other people....

Oh I had my turn at Catholic indoctrination
I just can't believe that people think the god in the bible doesn't demand obeisance for the reward of salvation

And apparently you managed to get through your Catholic doctrination without actually reading the bible. I repeat..if you have questions about what the bible says, and why, you should probably look to the bible for answers. They're all in there.

I'm not reading fiction these days

fiction doesnt predict the future hundreds of times.

Neither does the bible

 

[peach174]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

Why does anyone have rules that they teach their children to obey?

If you told someone that if they jumped off a cliff they would be smashed on the rocks and would die would it be because you were being a repressive petty tyrant?

If they disregarded your warning and they jumped off a cliff and died would their death be a cruel punishment from you for their disobedience?

In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational.

What is so difficult about following a rule to not be stupid?

for instance Kosher law is not about what is acceptable or not to be served and eaten. It is about what is acceptable or not to teach and learn. a warning to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind so that it will not be defiled and contaminated by the teachings of people who resemble one lower beast or another as in the command to refrain from the teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

If you disregard the warning and swallow the teachings of unclean irrational creatures that do not ruminate your mind will become defiled and contaminated and you will degenerate into an unclean irrational creature that cannot ruminate.

The prohibitions in the bible are not about crime and punishment, they are about cause and effect for either good or evil.

Not a reward or a punishment from any God but teaching from a higher sphere of intelligent life about the direct consequences of our own deliberate choices in what we as human beings either do or fail to do...

So if you broke every commandment and spit in god's eye you would still get your reward in heaven

I don't think so

You have to earn your salvation by obeisance to the sky man

If you do not heed the directions given in the law of course you cannot receive the life promised for compliance or enter the realm of intelligences that do.

How could it possibly be any other way?

And its not about earning salvation, its about finding it and holding on to it by heeding the instruction given in the law and standing guard over the purity of your own mind.

Is that something that you don't want to do?

Then don't. Just remember that you won't have any sky man to blame and no God will be punishing you for spitting in his eye when your life turns to shit.

That's funny

Heaven is the carrot hell is the stick
you earn the reward or you get the punishment

So basically you religious folk are ruled by greed in the quest for your reward or the fear of your punishment

The Bible teaches just the opposite.

 

[peach174]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

 

[hobelim]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

As the body is dead when there is no breath left in it, so faith divorced from deeds is as lifeless as a corpse. James 2:26

 

[GreatestIam]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

Having faith is a work is it not?

It is something that you must dig out of yourself and that cannot be easy.

Regards
DL

 

[ninja007]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

Having faith is a work is it not?

It is something that you must dig out of yourself and that cannot be easy.

Regards
DL

faith is not a work, it is given by God.

 

[Blackrook]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

That's the point of YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Don't tell people your view is the only view Christians can have.

Jesus taught us that we need to obey the Ten Commandments. When questioned further, he said to the rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow him. The rich man could not do that, so he went away unhappy.

Jesus never said that faith alone saves. Martin Luther said that, but he had no authority to preach that and it is an error.

The Bible clearly teaches that by faith you are saved.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8-For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9-not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Living Faith is what leads a person to do good works and good works follow true faith.

Having faith is a work is it not?

It is something that you must dig out of yourself and that cannot be easy.

Regards
DL

faith is not a work, it is given by God.

Bible Gateway passage: James 2:14-26 - New Living Translation

 

[Blackrook]

It's actually in the Bible that you need both faith and good works. I'm not sure why this debate keeps going on down the centuries.

 

[ninja007]

It's actually in the Bible that you need both faith and good works. I'm not sure why this debate keeps going on down the centuries.

faith saves- good works dont.

 

[Blackrook]

James 2:14-26New Living Translation (NLT)
Faith without Good Deeds Is Dead
14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing,16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?

17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”

19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?

21 Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?22 You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. 23 And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. 24 So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.

25 Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. 26 Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.

 

[Blackrook]

ninja007, the Bible actually says the opposite of what you said. Please read the Bible and correct your mistake.

 

[Blackrook]

I think what needs to happen is that ninja007 actually read the words written in the Bible, and admit that Martin Luther was wrong when he said "faith alone saves."

 

[peach174]

Romans 4:5

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Faith saves