Is the skinny repeal of Obamacare worse for the country than nothing at all?

[NYcarbineer]

Bullshit. The premiums & out of pockets would easily bankrupt half the countryif not more if they ever had to actually use these policies. There is no difference financially in the end.

ACA specifically addresses that and caps max out-of-pocket costs. You want reform that lowers max out of pocket? Then the answer is EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF GETTING RID of current protections ACA established., the answer is to strengthen them further.

Half of this country can not afford an emergency that would cost them 500.00
Out of pockets in the thousands would obviously be devastating.

Okay, so where's the healthcare coverage without out of pocket costs?

 

[AntonToo]

So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

It would be a MAJOR change, the majorest possible (is that a word?). Because Obamacare was based on forcing everybody into it, and ignoring people's own opinion on whether a hugely expensive Obamacare plan with crushingly high deductibles, was right for their own particular situation. The mandate was a classic example of liberal elites thinking they know better than their subjects, what was best for them... and forcing them into it even if they disagreed. The Mandate represents everything government should NOT be, but frequently is... under big-government tyrants.

If just the mandate is repealed, suddenly people are free to choose whatever health plan is right for THEM. There will be growing pains, because that mandate crushed out of existence most of the plans that insurance companies used to offer, leaving only the few that conformed to Obamacare's dictates (remember "If you like your plan you can keep your plan"? That's how big a lie it was). But those insurance companies can quickly dust off those old policy plans and reinstate them, and design a few more for situations those didn't cover.

And a few million people can wave money in their faces and say, "I want a plan that offers this and that, and doesn't offer the other thing, and if you have such a plan we'll give you all this nice money. What do you say?". That's the kind of thing that can get companies to work hard to please the people and get all that nice money. They can negotiate, make some counter offers, and if enough people like their counteroffers, that money starts to sparkle.

None of those things were possible under Obamacare. In fact, they were forbidden, on pain of paying penalties all over the place. Obamacare destroyed people's freedom ("for their own good", as socialists and other tyrants always say). Repealing "just the mandate" would restore that freedom.

And for people who like their Obamacare plan, the insurance companies are free to keep offering it. But people might be surprised when they find out how much such plans really cost, once the plans have to compete with viable alternatives .

Horseshit - mandate doesn't force you to get a PARTICULAR plan, you can have a minimal plan with lower deductible or expensive plan with low deductibles. The law will also HELP YOU afford that plan with income base subsidy.

The law also set minimal standards that do not allow companies to throw tons of tiny-print at you to sell skimpy insurance that will fail you just when you need it most.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

lol you're blaming liberals for your employer provided healthcare?

Liberals forced his employer to fulfill a certain level of coverage taking the CHOICE away from him.

Duh

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Bullshit. The premiums & out of pockets would easily bankrupt half the countryif not more if they ever had to actually use these policies. There is no difference financially in the end.

ACA specifically addresses that and caps max out-of-pocket costs. You want reform that lowers max out of pocket? Then the answer is EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF GETTING RID of current protections ACA established., the answer is to strengthen them further.

Half of this country can not afford an emergency that would cost them 500.00
Out of pockets in the thousands would obviously be devastating.

Okay, so where's the healthcare coverage without out of pocket costs?

I am talking about opting for catastrophic coverage if you are young & healthy rather than being forced to buy policies that cost tens of thousands that you will never see a return on.

 

[martybegan]

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

Well here I am, a Democrat, telling you it ain't so, I don't support single payer and I believe this country can have the best healthcare system in the word if we keep working on improving it in good faith instead of politicking about it.

So the answer is probably more taxes, and more taking from me to pay for others.

got it.

 

[martybegan]

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

lol you're blaming liberals for your employer provided healthcare?

I am blaming them for what happened to it. All the new rules, all the new requirements, and the upcoming "Cadillac Tax" has forced companies to make PPO plans unaffordable and push high deductible plans and wellness requirements.

 

[g5000]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

McCain made a very good point about letting the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee hash out a replacement for ObamaCare. That's the way the Senate was designed to operate. These hack partisan bullshit parliamentary maneuvers ("nuclear option", etc.) to circumvent the deliberations of the Senate is resulting in nothing getting done.

It would also serve Donald Trump's interests to get this shit back on track and do things the right way. Trump promised to repeal and replace ObamaCare, and that is not going to happen as long as each side continues to put party over country.

Too bad Trump is completely ignorant of how government is supposed to operate.

 

[danielpalos]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

Are you talking about Medicare or Medicaid? Because people often confuse the two. Most of the butt hurt is because people think Old people will lose their health insurance, and that is Medicare. medicaid is basically health care for those who can't afford health care, which has been around a long time, and gives lie to the whole "people will die" thing about repealing Obamacare.

Ryan's goal is to make Medicaid block granted and Medicare a voucher program. In the Senate, Collins, Murkowski, Portman, Heller, Coker, the lady from WV, and probably others really cannot vote to block grant Medicaid. Medicaid expanded under Obamacare to cover something like 20 million more than before Obamacare. Then there's the money going to subsidies, but that's another question.

But if they just leave most everything in place, beyond repealing the mandate, they don't really change much. I think that bipartisan they could probably kill the mandate, raise some money to cover preexisting in a separate insurance pool.

More importantly, it just doesn't cost that much money to insure well people from everyday stuff. And well people can shop for bargains in stuff like physicals and having corn or toenail removed. Eventually we all get cancer or have a stroke or something. That costs money, and you can't really shop for chemo. IMO, at some point sane people need to stop thinking that Ayn Rand has a model for healthcare or that do we really want to have everyone on Medicare where the only cost control is 24 doctors in Washington deciding how much a knee replacement is worth/

Hypothetically, the public sector can do it at cost, not for profit.

 

[bendog]

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

Well here I am, a Democrat, telling you it ain't so, I don't support single payer and I believe this country can have the best healthcare system in the word if we keep working on improving it in good faith instead of politicking about it.

So the answer is probably more taxes, and more taking from me to pay for others.

got it.

Or we could just cut taxes and deficit spend some more. Which seems to be the gop approach when push comes to shove.

 

[AntonToo]

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

lol you're blaming liberals for your employer provided healthcare?

I am blaming them for what happened to it. All the new rules, all the new requirements, and the upcoming "Cadillac Tax" has forced companies to make PPO plans unaffordable and push high deductible plans and wellness requirements.

Cadilac Tax goes into effect in 2020 and what it does (at that point) is forces company's hand to switch to CHEAPER insurance that has at least SOME cost sharing that discourages over-utilization.

Companies are welcome to pass those savings on to your salaries and if they don't it's on them, not ACA.

The idea is on sound grounds - if you have no buy-in into your healthcare expenses, then you don't have any incentive at all to make more efficient choices.

 

[bendog]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

Are you talking about Medicare or Medicaid? Because people often confuse the two. Most of the butt hurt is because people think Old people will lose their health insurance, and that is Medicare. medicaid is basically health care for those who can't afford health care, which has been around a long time, and gives lie to the whole "people will die" thing about repealing Obamacare.

Ryan's goal is to make Medicaid block granted and Medicare a voucher program. In the Senate, Collins, Murkowski, Portman, Heller, Coker, the lady from WV, and probably others really cannot vote to block grant Medicaid. Medicaid expanded under Obamacare to cover something like 20 million more than before Obamacare. Then there's the money going to subsidies, but that's another question.

But if they just leave most everything in place, beyond repealing the mandate, they don't really change much. I think that bipartisan they could probably kill the mandate, raise some money to cover preexisting in a separate insurance pool.

More importantly, it just doesn't cost that much money to insure well people from everyday stuff. And well people can shop for bargains in stuff like physicals and having corn or toenail removed. Eventually we all get cancer or have a stroke or something. That costs money, and you can't really shop for chemo. IMO, at some point sane people need to stop thinking that Ayn Rand has a model for healthcare or that do we really want to have everyone on Medicare where the only cost control is 24 doctors in Washington deciding how much a knee replacement is worth/

Hypothetically, the public sector can do it at cost, not for profit.

You get no argument from me if you're saying we're probably better off fiscally to have medicare provide coverage for people with stuff like Parkinsons, recurrant cancer and strokes. It costs money. Probably more money than anything other than long term chronic illness like organ failure or dying of Alzhemiers, but so long as the taxes are levied on the most wealthy, shifting the cost there from having young healthy people pay for coverage they most likely won't need for decades

 

[Siete]

whine, bitch, whine, bitch, whine, bitch, whine ...7 years of whining and bitching from the top Republicans all the way down to their pissant base and NOTHING but brilliant internet message board rhetoric to show for it.

totally irrelevant RW shitsticks ..

YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

 

[martybegan]

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

Well here I am, a Democrat, telling you it ain't so, I don't support single payer and I believe this country can have the best healthcare system in the word if we keep working on improving it in good faith instead of politicking about it.

So the answer is probably more taxes, and more taking from me to pay for others.

got it.

Or we could just cut taxes and deficit spend some more. Which seems to be the gop approach when push comes to shove.

The idea is to cut spending.

 

[bendog]

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

Well here I am, a Democrat, telling you it ain't so, I don't support single payer and I believe this country can have the best healthcare system in the word if we keep working on improving it in good faith instead of politicking about it.

So the answer is probably more taxes, and more taking from me to pay for others.

got it.

Or we could just cut taxes and deficit spend some more. Which seems to be the gop approach when push comes to shove.

The idea is to cut spending.

Maybe money can be saved by well people shopping for basic care like we shop for dental care now, but I think the Ayn Rand view of saving money on chronic/serious illness is Paul Ryan and the Kochs view of people who can't work live too long anyway

 

[martybegan]

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

Well here I am, a Democrat, telling you it ain't so, I don't support single payer and I believe this country can have the best healthcare system in the word if we keep working on improving it in good faith instead of politicking about it.

So the answer is probably more taxes, and more taking from me to pay for others.

got it.

Or we could just cut taxes and deficit spend some more. Which seems to be the gop approach when push comes to shove.

The idea is to cut spending.

Maybe money can be saved by well people shopping for basic care like we shop for dental care now, but I think the Ayn Rand view of saving money on chronic/serious illness is Paul Ryan and the Kochs view of people who can't work live too long anyway

Or maybe get the feds out of the medical business. If a State wants to deal with it, let them spend their own $$.

 

[martybegan]

Bullshit. Just like Obama and Hillary were against gay marriage before they supported it, and I was able to keep my plan if I liked it.

The Dem end game has ALWAYS been single payer, it's just that only a few are honest or stupid enough to admit it.

Bullshit, moderate Democrats are very skeptical of single payer.

I'm a Democrat and I believe we need to exhaust EVERY market based possibility before we go there.

ACA is a market based reform, it has had success in greatly reducing uninsured rates and we need to keep working on it to reduce it further while getting a better handle on the costs.

Skeptical of getting people to accept it, but it has always been the end game.

And Moderate Democrats are about as rare as gun control republicans.

And while my $$ subsidizes the uninsured I get fucked with a plan I don't want because my employer provides it, and if I wanted to go to the exchanges, I wouldn't get subsidized.

And I don't even get a fucking thank you from the freeloading assholes who benefit from it.

lol you're blaming liberals for your employer provided healthcare?

I am blaming them for what happened to it. All the new rules, all the new requirements, and the upcoming "Cadillac Tax" has forced companies to make PPO plans unaffordable and push high deductible plans and wellness requirements.

Cadilac Tax goes into effect in 2020 and what it does (at that point) is forces company's hand to switch to CHEAPER insurance that has at least SOME cost sharing that discourages over-utilization.

Companies are welcome to pass those savings on to your salaries and if they don't it's on them, not ACA.

The idea is on sound grounds - if you have no buy-in into your healthcare expenses, then you don't have any incentive at all to make more efficient choices.

Companies have been making PPO plans (by definition cadillac plans) more and more expensive to make them less attractive. They have been pushing wellness plans to make people jump through hoops for piddly little discounts. They have pushed high deductible plans with HSA's, then cut their funding of the HSA employer contribution AND forced employee contribution to qualify as a match.

I had buy in, now I have excessive buy in all to support assholes who have to buy jack squat.

 

[bendog]

Well here I am, a Democrat, telling you it ain't so, I don't support single payer and I believe this country can have the best healthcare system in the word if we keep working on improving it in good faith instead of politicking about it.

So the answer is probably more taxes, and more taking from me to pay for others.

got it.

Or we could just cut taxes and deficit spend some more. Which seems to be the gop approach when push comes to shove.

The idea is to cut spending.

Maybe money can be saved by well people shopping for basic care like we shop for dental care now, but I think the Ayn Rand view of saving money on chronic/serious illness is Paul Ryan and the Kochs view of people who can't work live too long anyway

Or maybe get the feds out of the medical business. If a State wants to deal with it, let them spend their own $$.

Ah no. We tried that in 1960

 

[g5000]

Just a reminder of what McConnel promised.

From 2014:

"The best interest of the country would be achieved by pulling out Obamacare, root and branch.” Note that McConnell does not really propose an alternative. He sticks with the pledge to repeal Obamacare without describing a replacement that could be used on Kynect.

His office pointed The Fact Checker to a previous statement in which McConnell said: “I will continue to lead efforts to repeal and replace it with commonsense patient-centered reforms that preserve greater choice for my constituents while also lowering costs.”

Mitch McConnell’s puzzling claims on insurance in Kentucky, post-Obamacare

 

[martybegan]

So the answer is probably more taxes, and more taking from me to pay for others.

got it.

Or we could just cut taxes and deficit spend some more. Which seems to be the gop approach when push comes to shove.

The idea is to cut spending.

Maybe money can be saved by well people shopping for basic care like we shop for dental care now, but I think the Ayn Rand view of saving money on chronic/serious illness is Paul Ryan and the Kochs view of people who can't work live too long anyway

Or maybe get the feds out of the medical business. If a State wants to deal with it, let them spend their own $$.

Ah no. We tried that in 1960

Almost 60 years ago, technology and times have changed.

 

[sartre play]

I cried when they made car insurance a must have. I was never going to have a wreck that was my fault, Young people should have health insurance there is no reason they cant help pay for there parents/ grandparents heath care now, as there children w ill have to help with there health care later , plus they will have health care now incase they do need it. I just think that there costs should start at a very low amount. this would be something that most of us would have to agree on. problem with insurance co they would make less profit.