Is there any hope for the PA

[Hollie]

My personal take is that the palestinians have reduced themselves to nothing more than a mob. Having embraced the worst terrorism and terrorists have to offer, their belief that might makes right has brought them to a place where they are simply ungovernable.

One major reason there is no peace is that there is no one to make peace with that can actually negotiate for what amounts to a violent mob. Arafat was a cook, stole millions intended for aid to his people, Abbas is no better, who's next ? Hamas ?

The Palestinians are facing a dangerous generational crisis ...

It seems if there is to be peace Israel is going to have to strengthen restrictions and step up deportations. Which it is fortunately doing with great success.

The revisionist diatribe not withstanding I'm curious if anyone has any ideas as to who might be up and coming in palestinian politics that might actually take the palestinians down a road to peace instead of a road to ruin

Palestinian Authority close to collapse, warns John Kerry ...

The one thing I know about hard headed Zionism simply discounts the Palestinians as a "Mob" therefore de-humanize them as road kill...

Personally and morally I suggest stabbing soldiers in a war has been acceptable...I'm sure Jews killed as many German soldiers in the Warsaw Ghetto and elsewhere as they could by all means.

Get off their land, it might just stop!

The land was mandated by unanimous vote as a protectorate for the creation of a national Jewish homeland. Besides anyone who knows anything about this era knows that Jordan was the other state invented out of th mandate area and it compromises roughly 80% of the total area.

So why is it the Arabs can't content themselves with the lions share of the mandated area ?

Sell your story to the Arabs who have never consented to any Western imposed neo-colonialist deal.

That's the core basis of this conflict.

As the proto-colonists, the Arab invaders consented by default when the Ottoman colonists relinquished all rights to the territory.

The islamo-waqf thingy is the core of the conflict. You convert wannabes need to learn your koranology.

 

[tinydancer]

I will give President Clinton (and please excuse me for just nuking him in another thread) I will give President Clinton for kudos on such a major scale from trying to bring Israel and Palestine together.

He really rocked it. He really tried. Harder than anyone I have witnessed in the White House.

 

[Boston1]

My personal take is that the palestinians have reduced themselves to nothing more than a mob. Having embraced the worst terrorism and terrorists have to offer, their belief that might makes right has brought them to a place where they are simply ungovernable.

One major reason there is no peace is that there is no one to make peace with that can actually negotiate for what amounts to a violent mob. Arafat was a cook, stole millions intended for aid to his people, Abbas is no better, who's next ? Hamas ?

The Palestinians are facing a dangerous generational crisis ...

It seems if there is to be peace Israel is going to have to strengthen restrictions and step up deportations. Which it is fortunately doing with great success.

The revisionist diatribe not withstanding I'm curious if anyone has any ideas as to who might be up and coming in palestinian politics that might actually take the palestinians down a road to peace instead of a road to ruin

Palestinian Authority close to collapse, warns John Kerry ...

The one thing I know about hard headed Zionism simply discounts the Palestinians as a "Mob" therefore de-humanize them as road kill...

Personally and morally I suggest stabbing soldiers in a war has been acceptable...I'm sure Jews killed as many German soldiers in the Warsaw Ghetto and elsewhere as they could by all means.

Get off their land, it might just stop!

The land was mandated by unanimous vote as a protectorate for the creation of a national Jewish homeland. Besides anyone who knows anything about this era knows that Jordan was the other state invented out of th mandate area and it compromises roughly 80% of the total area.

So why is it the Arabs can't content themselves with the lions share of the mandated area ?

The Palestinians are not Hashemite Bedouins, who gained independence there. There were no Palestinians in Trans Jordan, only Bedouins.

Yikes, talk about chasing a windmill. The only point in any of these conversation in which I mentioned Heshimites is in reference to the clan of palestinians rewarded for their efforts after WW2 with the government of Arab palestine

No idea what you are on about

 

[Boston1]

The only revisionism is to blame the colonized for the colonization.

Translation; Israel does not have the Right to Exist. He doesnt realize it but he just clarified the Palestinians Goal. And THAT is why there will never be the " Two State Solution"

What does that have to do with blaming the colonized people for the colonization?

Well the Arab colonizers encouraged Arab immigration to the tune of a 100% increase in population in just 20 years back in the 1920~40s time frame. So yeah. I'd blame the Arabs for attempting to stack the deck by importing endentured servants to work the absentee land owners land and for the laws attempting to prevent the Judaic people from legally buying land within the same area.

The Arab colonization of Judea is well documented ;--)

 

[P F Tinmore]

How many Christian & Jewish citizens are reprented in the governments of the non apartheid Arab countries with equal votong rights like the Palestinian citizens have in this "apartheid Israel"?

In what Arab countries do non-Muslim citizens not have equal voting rights?

Are you kidding. Saudi JUST gave woman the right to vote about a year or two ago. Yikes, you are not seriously going to argue that woman enjoy the same rights as men in the Arab world are You ?

PS is there any chance at all you will be polite enough to stick to the topic ?

 

[Boston1]

The Palestinian Authority Is on the Brink of Collapse, Study ...

Quote

The breakdown of the Palestinian Authority would turn the West Bank into a violent, criminal, chaotic, disease-ridden place. But even though most Palestinians want the PA to survive, either for the sake of basic social order or personal interest, and although Israel dreads having to resume responsibility for 3 million West Bankers, President Mahmoud Abbas’ regime will collapse before too long if Israel continues to thwart Palestinian aspirations for independence.
This is the conclusion of a massive six-month study by the highly-regarded Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah, directed by Dr. Khalil Shikaki.

read more: The Palestinian Authority is on the brink of collapse, study says - Diplomacy and Defense

End Quote

 

[P F Tinmore]

The only revisionism is to blame the colonized for the colonization.

But we've been playing the game too instead of sitting down both sides and going "the sand box is this big" Deal with it and make them hard core come up with a solution.

The problem isn't with the little people on either side of the border. The problem are the leaders and the governments who have been making big $$$$$$$$$$$ all these years over the conflicts.

That ones worthy of a whole new thread. There are most definitely outside interests benefitting from the conflict

The PA is a foreign imposed illegal government.

There is already a thread about it.

 

[Shusha]

Personally and morally I suggest stabbing soldiers in a war has been acceptable...

I'd be down with that. Stabbing soldiers who are on duty and uniformed is totally legit. The corollary to that, of course, is that all stabbers are also to be immediately deemed combatant soldiers and are also viable targets. And who should be addressed that way in all media. Do we have an accord?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I think and it's not easy but it is simple.

We are in the here and now. I guarantee. Hell's bells I put good money that if one cut out the top all sides would go ok. Let's divey it up once and for all. Bring the farmers and the land owners in and work it out.

I mean really work it out.

Now for those anti Israel I am only going to bring up when the Israelis handed Gaza over to Palestine. You know what happened. And not one land owner or Pal benefited because the bloody government wrecked all those greenhouses and turned this into a no mans land for Gaza.

Politics trumped their people.

You read too much Israeli propaganda.

Israel shuts off water, dries Gaza greenhouses

 

[Boston1]

The only revisionism is to blame the colonized for the colonization.

But we've been playing the game too instead of sitting down both sides and going "the sand box is this big" Deal with it and make them hard core come up with a solution.

The problem isn't with the little people on either side of the border. The problem are the leaders and the governments who have been making big $$$$$$$$$$$ all these years over the conflicts.

That ones worthy of a whole new thread. There are most definitely outside interests benefitting from the conflict

The PA is a foreign imposed illegal government.

There is already a thread about it.

I'm sure it is. I don't like much of anything about the PA and from what I understand its a puppet regime al the way. But it was put in place so that someone could sit at the negotiations table with the Israeli's. And we can all see how that worked out.

No matter how many millions you throw at corruption it does nothing to legitimize another puppet government.

On the other hand if you left the palestinians mob to its own devices it will endorse a one of the many terrorist organizations available. In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place

 

[Boston1]

Personally and morally I suggest stabbing soldiers in a war has been acceptable...

I'd be down with that. Stabbing soldiers who are on duty and uniformed is totally legit. The corollary to that, of course, is that all stabbers are also to be immediately deemed combatant soldiers and are also viable targets. And who should be addressed that way in all media. Do we have an accord?

Agreed

If we consider this a war, and I believe it is, then its perfectly acceptable for the palestinians to pick up whatever weapon they have and have at it. But quid pro quo the Israelis have the same right to slaughter the palestinians and deport deport them en mass. And we know how the world community would react to that.

So we either have a war, in which anything goes within the G conventions or we don't have a war, in which case the actions of the palestinians are considered terrorist acts.

So which will it be ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The only revisionism is to blame the colonized for the colonization.

But we've been playing the game too instead of sitting down both sides and going "the sand box is this big" Deal with it and make them hard core come up with a solution.

The problem isn't with the little people on either side of the border. The problem are the leaders and the governments who have been making big $$$$$$$$$$$ all these years over the conflicts.

That ones worthy of a whole new thread. There are most definitely outside interests benefitting from the conflict

The PA is a foreign imposed illegal government.

There is already a thread about it.

I'm sure it is. I don't like much of anything about the PA and from what I understand its a puppet regime al the way. But it was put in place so that someone could sit at the negotiations table with the Israeli's. And we can all see how that worked out.

No matter how many millions you throw at corruption it does nothing to legitimize another puppet government.

On the other hand if you left the palestinians mob to its own devices it will endorse a one of the many terrorist organizations available. In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place

In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place.​

Indeed, they are too candy ass to negotiate with an elected government.

 

[Boston1]

I think and it's not easy but it is simple.

We are in the here and now. I guarantee. Hell's bells I put good money that if one cut out the top all sides would go ok. Let's divey it up once and for all. Bring the farmers and the land owners in and work it out.

I mean really work it out.

Now for those anti Israel I am only going to bring up when the Israelis handed Gaza over to Palestine. You know what happened. And not one land owner or Pal benefited because the bloody government wrecked all those greenhouses and turned this into a no mans land for Gaza.

Politics trumped their people.

You read too much Israeli propaganda.

Israel shuts off water, dries Gaza greenhouses

Oh please. The Israeli Water Authority, like any other municipal water provider charges its customers for whatever water they use. Fail to pay your bill and you will have your water shut off.

Its completely disingenuous to claim that Israel just randomly shuts off water to palestinian consumers

On the flip side the palestinians are constantly illegally tapping the IWA lines, jeprodizing other users water supplies and vandalizing supply lines

The Truth Behind the Palestinian Water Libels | Begin-Sadat ...

Water: Facts about Israeli and Palestinian Use, Agreements ...

The Israeli 'Watergate' Scandal: The Facts About Palestinian ...

Overview of Israel-Palestinian Water Issue | Jewish Virtual ...

The Truth Behind Palestinian Water Libels - Israel Today ...

The Facts About the Palestinian Arab Water Supply - Op ...

 

[Boston1]

The only revisionism is to blame the colonized for the colonization.

But we've been playing the game too instead of sitting down both sides and going "the sand box is this big" Deal with it and make them hard core come up with a solution.

The problem isn't with the little people on either side of the border. The problem are the leaders and the governments who have been making big $$$$$$$$$$$ all these years over the conflicts.

That ones worthy of a whole new thread. There are most definitely outside interests benefitting from the conflict

The PA is a foreign imposed illegal government.

There is already a thread about it.

I'm sure it is. I don't like much of anything about the PA and from what I understand its a puppet regime al the way. But it was put in place so that someone could sit at the negotiations table with the Israeli's. And we can all see how that worked out.

No matter how many millions you throw at corruption it does nothing to legitimize another puppet government.

On the other hand if you left the palestinians mob to its own devices it will endorse a one of the many terrorist organizations available. In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place

In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place.​

Indeed, they are too candy ass to negotiate with an elected government.

No

they are following a policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists

which I happen to agree with

 

[P F Tinmore]

But we've been playing the game too instead of sitting down both sides and going "the sand box is this big" Deal with it and make them hard core come up with a solution.

The problem isn't with the little people on either side of the border. The problem are the leaders and the governments who have been making big $$$$$$$$$$$ all these years over the conflicts.

That ones worthy of a whole new thread. There are most definitely outside interests benefitting from the conflict

The PA is a foreign imposed illegal government.

There is already a thread about it.

I'm sure it is. I don't like much of anything about the PA and from what I understand its a puppet regime al the way. But it was put in place so that someone could sit at the negotiations table with the Israeli's. And we can all see how that worked out.

No matter how many millions you throw at corruption it does nothing to legitimize another puppet government.

On the other hand if you left the palestinians mob to its own devices it will endorse a one of the many terrorist organizations available. In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place

In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place.​

Indeed, they are too candy ass to negotiate with an elected government.

No

they are following a policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists

which I happen to agree with

So they hamstring themselves with third grade name calling.

That is one way to chicken out of negotiations.

 

[Hollie]

That ones worthy of a whole new thread. There are most definitely outside interests benefitting from the conflict

The PA is a foreign imposed illegal government.

There is already a thread about it.

I'm sure it is. I don't like much of anything about the PA and from what I understand its a puppet regime al the way. But it was put in place so that someone could sit at the negotiations table with the Israeli's. And we can all see how that worked out.

No matter how many millions you throw at corruption it does nothing to legitimize another puppet government.

On the other hand if you left the palestinians mob to its own devices it will endorse a one of the many terrorist organizations available. In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place

In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place.​

Indeed, they are too candy ass to negotiate with an elected government.

No

they are following a policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists

which I happen to agree with

So they hamstring themselves with third grade name calling.

That is one way to chicken out of negotiations.

Funny stuff, actually. I'll make the point that negotiations with either version of Islamic terrorists (Hamas or the PA) is problematic because those two wannabe caliphate'ists are entirely hostile to one another.

The Pal'istanian occupiers can't even agree on which Islamic terrorist franchise will represent them.

 

[Boston1]

That ones worthy of a whole new thread. There are most definitely outside interests benefitting from the conflict

The PA is a foreign imposed illegal government.

There is already a thread about it.

I'm sure it is. I don't like much of anything about the PA and from what I understand its a puppet regime al the way. But it was put in place so that someone could sit at the negotiations table with the Israeli's. And we can all see how that worked out.

No matter how many millions you throw at corruption it does nothing to legitimize another puppet government.

On the other hand if you left the palestinians mob to its own devices it will endorse a one of the many terrorist organizations available. In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place

In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place.​

Indeed, they are too candy ass to negotiate with an elected government.

No

they are following a policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists

which I happen to agree with

So they hamstring themselves with third grade name calling.

That is one way to chicken out of negotiations.

The term terrorist is well defined and applied in a similar manor by many governments including my own. It is general policy to not negotiate with terrorists. I agree with the policy lest those negotiations result in violence being rewarded. Its a very simple concept.

Of course it depends on if you consider it an ongoing war or not.

I tend to think of it as a war but either way the UNs failure to segregate combatants from non combatants within its aid structure and the aid camps is the primary driving force behind the continued violence

 

[montelatici]

The PA is a foreign imposed illegal government.

There is already a thread about it.

I'm sure it is. I don't like much of anything about the PA and from what I understand its a puppet regime al the way. But it was put in place so that someone could sit at the negotiations table with the Israeli's. And we can all see how that worked out.

No matter how many millions you throw at corruption it does nothing to legitimize another puppet government.

On the other hand if you left the palestinians mob to its own devices it will endorse a one of the many terrorist organizations available. In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place

In which case there is no one the western powers will negotiate with; which is why the PA was run up the flag pole in the first place.​

Indeed, they are too candy ass to negotiate with an elected government.

No

they are following a policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists

which I happen to agree with

So they hamstring themselves with third grade name calling.

That is one way to chicken out of negotiations.

The term terrorist is well defined and applied in a similar manor by many governments including my own. It is general policy to not negotiate with terrorists. I agree with the policy lest those negotiations result in violence being rewarded. Its a very simple concept.

Of course it depends on if you consider it an ongoing war or not.

I tend to think of it as a war but either way the UNs failure to segregate combatants from non combatants within its aid structure and the aid camps is the primary driving force behind the continued violence

You are full of crap. The labeling of terrorist is strictly based on perspective. The Afghan Mujahedin that fought against the Russians were considered Freedom Fighters by the U.S. (although they slaughtered girls that attended Russian financed schools for girls) but were labeled terrorists when the same people and their sons fought against the U.S.

The Contras were considered freedom fighters by U.S. and terrorists by the rest of the world.

 

[pbel]

Personally and morally I suggest stabbing soldiers in a war has been acceptable...

I'd be down with that. Stabbing soldiers who are on duty and uniformed is totally legit. The corollary to that, of course, is that all stabbers are also to be immediately deemed combatant soldiers and are also viable targets. And who should be addressed that way in all media. Do we have an accord?

Agreed. Those kids know they are going to be shot like dogs and be killed. They are very brave having only their bodies to fight their enemies.

Israel will never defeat these people. They should be glad they are currently un-armed.

 

[Boston1]

Personally and morally I suggest stabbing soldiers in a war has been acceptable...

I'd be down with that. Stabbing soldiers who are on duty and uniformed is totally legit. The corollary to that, of course, is that all stabbers are also to be immediately deemed combatant soldiers and are also viable targets. And who should be addressed that way in all media. Do we have an accord?

Agreed. Those kids know they are going to be shot like dogs and be killed. They are very brave having only their bodies to fight their enemies.

Israel will never defeat these people. They should be glad they are currently un-armed.

Its not by chance these terrorists are unarmed. Israeli restrictions into the UN run camps have been very effective.

Unfortunately the UN continues to lend aid to the combatants within the camps and thus the war continues.

The simple reality is that no one is responsible of the plight of the palestinians but the palestinians. Oh the UN is an extremely bias group and even guilty of lending aid to both combatants and non combatants alike within the refugee population. Something clearly against international law and its own operational policies but; that doesn't excuse the outrageous acts of terrorism by the palestinians or their inability to actually choose effective leadership thats intention is to engage in peace.