Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

[Boss]

Maybe in your fantasy world, 2+2 doesn't equal 4, but in the real world, it's true, 2+2=4. I swear!!!

Again, you are failing to read and comprehend my posts and simply lobbing shit bombs at me. You've taken what I said out of context and want to imply that I live in fantasy world. I live in the same material reality that you live in.

If you read up on electrons, you will find that electrons appear, disappear, exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. So... whenever the electron is not appearing to exist, does it still exist? What about when it exists in two places at the same time? How can 2+2=4 if any one thing can be present in two places at the same time or not appear to exist at all? ...yeah... it's bizarre, isn't it?

I'm not so arrogant that I would presume that everything I think is true. And I never said that I could be an omniscient being... You just made that up.

2+2=4 IS true. What you're trying to say is look at that tree, we don't know if that's a tree, because we haven't explored every single possibility that might exist in the universe. Which of course is absurd. A tree is a tree.

You are the one who said, and I quote: "No,because it is true." Unless you are claiming to be omniscient, you cannot know something is true. You can believe it is true, and many others may concur with your belief. Whenever you state something is "not possible" it can only mean that you have examined and correctly evaluated all other known and unknown possibilities. If you are not omniscient, this is not likely.

A tree is a tree because we defined the parameters of a reality where a material thing exists in our perception which we labeled a tree. We believe the tree exists because we have faith in our perception.

2+2=4 is a formula comprised of values we invented to define material reality. It doesn't mean it's true, it means we believe it is true because our perception appears to confirm it and we have faith in our perceptions.

But perceptions can be deceiving. In a subatomic or quantum world, 2+2 may not equal 4 or anything else. We don't know. This is why we developed "quantum mechanics" to help us understand things beyond our perception.

Sadly, humans do not live in a subatomic world. It would be cool if we did, but we don't.

.

Sadly, humans do not live in a subatomic world.
LMAO... Sadly, some humans don't realize that we certainly DO live in a subatomic world. This is one of the dumbest comments ever. It's like saying we don't live in a microscopic world or telescopic world. I guess we can dismiss everything we know about microbes and distant galaxies since we don't live in those worlds, huh?

smh

 

[emilynghiem]

no, it is not bioneurologically anything, you simply do not understand the Almighty ... to bad for you.
.

Dear Breezewood: I already posted a reply querying how you came up with
this comparison to Hitler which seems the exact opposite of my nature.

I apologize that the miscommunication between us got so far off the mark
that you got the opposite impression of what I was trying to say.

Please reply to that msg and explain how I am anything like Hitler,
I am most curious to know.

As for this message, I will try to backtrack and find out where we talked past
each other and crossed wires.

1. weren't you saying that the belief in the Christian God
was falsely hardwired?

if not I apologize because I thought you were
negating MD statement about God as Creator

2. Now I saw your msg where you are saying the Almighty exists
but that MD is misportraying God

So my questions are this
a. do you agree that MD's perception of God is hardwired or not
b. if it can change then why are you insulting him or me as if that is going
to inspire anyone to change?
c. if it cannot change then why are you insulting him or me
d. And WHY can't both ways of perceiving God co-exist?

What is WRONG with this
A. atheists and nontheists who see laws and nature in terms of science
B. Buddhist who see spiritual laws in terms of Wisdom and nature that is interconnected
C. pagans who may see the world as life energy in the Creation or Mother Earth itself
D. Christians who personify God as a Creator and distinguish this role from Creation
E. Constitutionalists who look at laws as coming from Natural Laws and Human Nature
where some attribute to God as the source and some say these laws are self-existent

Why can't we focus on the laws we DO agree with
and not haggle over how we see the source of where they came from?

 

[emilynghiem]

Maybe in your fantasy world, 2+2 doesn't equal 4, but in the real world, it's true, 2+2=4. I swear!!!

Again, you are failing to read and comprehend my posts and simply lobbing shit bombs at me. You've taken what I said out of context and want to imply that I live in fantasy world. I live in the same material reality that you live in.

If you read up on electrons, you will find that electrons appear, disappear, exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. So... whenever the electron is not appearing to exist, does it still exist? What about when it exists in two places at the same time? How can 2+2=4 if any one thing can be present in two places at the same time or not appear to exist at all? ...yeah... it's bizarre, isn't it?

I'm not so arrogant that I would presume that everything I think is true. And I never said that I could be an omniscient being... You just made that up.

2+2=4 IS true. What you're trying to say is look at that tree, we don't know if that's a tree, because we haven't explored every single possibility that might exist in the universe. Which of course is absurd. A tree is a tree.

You are the one who said, and I quote: "No,because it is true." Unless you are claiming to be omniscient, you cannot know something is true. You can believe it is true, and many others may concur with your belief. Whenever you state something is "not possible" it can only mean that you have examined and correctly evaluated all other known and unknown possibilities. If you are not omniscient, this is not likely.

A tree is a tree because we defined the parameters of a reality where a material thing exists in our perception which we labeled a tree. We believe the tree exists because we have faith in our perception.

2+2=4 is a formula comprised of values we invented to define material reality. It doesn't mean it's true, it means we believe it is true because our perception appears to confirm it and we have faith in our perceptions.

But perceptions can be deceiving. In a subatomic or quantum world, 2+2 may not equal 4 or anything else. We don't know. This is why we developed "quantum mechanics" to help us understand things beyond our perception.

Sadly, humans do not live in a subatomic world. It would be cool if we did, but we don't.

.

Sadly, humans do not live in a subatomic world.
LMAO... Sadly, some humans don't realize that we certainly DO live in a subatomic world. This is one of the dumbest comments ever. It's like saying we don't live in a microscopic world or telescopic world. I guess we can dismiss everything we know about microbes and distant galaxies since we don't live in those worlds, huh?

smh

Dear Boss:
this cannot be the dumbest comment

look at the one that BW posted
comparing me to Hitler

can you top that?

I think Hitler would come back from the grave
and yell about being compared to a playful puppy dog
who wants to make friends with everyone

What an insult to the Jews who suffered under Hitler's Holocaust
Embarrassing. I don't know whether to be more mortified
that I communicated so poorly to give poor BW this horrible misperception,
or more mortified for BW for having posted it, seriously

the last time I was called Satan it was for being TOO inclusive
and TOO universalist, and someone going through a fundamentalist stage
called me that who was rejecting everyone for being too material and not strict enough.

this just doesn't make sense period

If anything I have the opposite karma of Hitler
and the only thing dangerous about me is being dangerous naive
thinking people will forgive each other and make peace

 

[Boss]

I understand exactly what he's saying. He's been lied to by the women in his life so many times before that he doesn't believe in truth existing.

PS Try to keep your answers a tad shorter. Nobody likes a long-winded blowhard.

Lied to by the women in my life? Do you know me? Do you know anything about my life or the women in it? OR are you a pinhead who is butt-hurt because you can't formulate a rational argument against me? I never said truth didn't exist. I said we can't KNOW truth, we can only BELIEVE truth.

Yes.... Everyone keep your answers shorter for the nitwit who can't formulate rational arguments or respond to the topic of the thread.

 

[emilynghiem]

I understand exactly what he's saying. He's been lied to by the women in his life so many times before that he doesn't believe in truth existing.

PS Try to keep your answers a tad shorter. Nobody likes a long-winded blowhard.

Lied to by the women in my life? Do you know me? Do you know anything about my life or the women in it? OR are you a pinhead who is butt-hurt because you can't formulate a rational argument against me? I never said truth didn't exist. I said we can't KNOW truth, we can only BELIEVE truth.

Yes.... Everyone keep your answers shorter for the nitwit who can't formulate rational arguments or respond to the topic of the thread.

Well, Breezewood just compared me to Hitler.
So if I am one of the women in your life, via the internet,
you must be guilty by association as a friend of a Hitler-wannabe?

Do I need to grow a mustache? I better start brushing up on
my Neo-Nazism if I am going to live up to my new image and not disapppoint Breezewood
by turning out to be a sensitive kid who cares about everyone and does not want anyone to suffer.
I think BW would be crushed that I am not out to launch the next big genocide or Armageddon.
Are there manuals online that I can look up for step by step instructions?

TAZ offered to pop popcorn with all the hot air I was producing on this thread.

Perhaps we should sit back and enjoy these antics and drama
to all that popcorn!

 

[Boss]

I understand exactly what he's saying. He's been lied to by the women in his life so many times before that he doesn't believe in truth existing.

PS Try to keep your answers a tad shorter. Nobody likes a long-winded blowhard.

Lied to by the women in my life? Do you know me? Do you know anything about my life or the women in it? OR are you a pinhead who is butt-hurt because you can't formulate a rational argument against me? I never said truth didn't exist. I said we can't KNOW truth, we can only BELIEVE truth.

Yes.... Everyone keep your answers shorter for the nitwit who can't formulate rational arguments or respond to the topic of the thread.

Well, Breezewood just compared me to Hitler.
So if I am one of the women in your life, via the internet,
you must be guilty by association as a friend of a Hitler-wannabe?

Do I need to grow a mustache? I better start brushing up on
my Neo-Nazism if I am going to live up to my new image and not disapppoint Breezewood
by turning out to be a sensitive kid who cares about everyone and does not want anyone to suffer.
I think BW would be crushed that I am not out to launch the next big genocide or Armageddon.
Are there manuals online that I can look up for step by step instructions?

TAZ offered to pop popcorn with all the hot air I was producing on this thread.

Perhaps we should sit back and enjoy these antics and drama
to all that popcorn!

I've discovered, whenever you dare to challenge the fascist-like thoughts of an Atheist... look the fuck out! They can get particularly nasty and surly. Not sure what bee has gotten into Breeze's bonnet, we generally get a more peaceful Buddhist vibe from him/her.

I think you do a great job of trying to mediate, but I think you fail to understand these people are not interested in mediation. They will either troll the thread with insults and denigrations, or pop in now and then to interject some stupidity, or twist and distort your words to create false arguments they can defeat. No other option exists. They are not going to see things any different way, they aren't interested in that.

I've been arguing with these fools for over 15 years, they never change.

 

[emilynghiem]

I understand exactly what he's saying. He's been lied to by the women in his life so many times before that he doesn't believe in truth existing.

PS Try to keep your answers a tad shorter. Nobody likes a long-winded blowhard.

Lied to by the women in my life? Do you know me? Do you know anything about my life or the women in it? OR are you a pinhead who is butt-hurt because you can't formulate a rational argument against me? I never said truth didn't exist. I said we can't KNOW truth, we can only BELIEVE truth.

Yes.... Everyone keep your answers shorter for the nitwit who can't formulate rational arguments or respond to the topic of the thread.

Well, Breezewood just compared me to Hitler.
So if I am one of the women in your life, via the internet,
you must be guilty by association as a friend of a Hitler-wannabe?

Do I need to grow a mustache? I better start brushing up on
my Neo-Nazism if I am going to live up to my new image and not disapppoint Breezewood
by turning out to be a sensitive kid who cares about everyone and does not want anyone to suffer.
I think BW would be crushed that I am not out to launch the next big genocide or Armageddon.
Are there manuals online that I can look up for step by step instructions?

TAZ offered to pop popcorn with all the hot air I was producing on this thread.

Perhaps we should sit back and enjoy these antics and drama
to all that popcorn!

I've discovered, whenever you dare to challenge the fascist-like thoughts of an Atheist... look the fuck out! They can get particularly nasty and surly. Not sure what bee has gotten into Breeze's bonnet, we generally get a more peaceful Buddhist vibe from him/her.

I think you do a great job of trying to mediate, but I think you fail to understand these people are not interested in mediation. They will either troll the thread with insults and denigrations, or pop in now and then to interject some stupidity, or twist and distort your words to create false arguments they can defeat. No other option exists. They are not going to see things any different way, they aren't interested in that.

I've been arguing with these fools for over 15 years, they never change.

Well, now I am trying more daring humor than before.
The fastest way to shut someone up is to say "you're right"
so how to say that creatively?

 

[Boss]

TAZ offered to pop popcorn with all the hot air I was producing on this thread.

 

[Boss]

I understand exactly what he's saying. He's been lied to by the women in his life so many times before that he doesn't believe in truth existing.

PS Try to keep your answers a tad shorter. Nobody likes a long-winded blowhard.

Lied to by the women in my life? Do you know me? Do you know anything about my life or the women in it? OR are you a pinhead who is butt-hurt because you can't formulate a rational argument against me? I never said truth didn't exist. I said we can't KNOW truth, we can only BELIEVE truth.

Yes.... Everyone keep your answers shorter for the nitwit who can't formulate rational arguments or respond to the topic of the thread.

Well, Breezewood just compared me to Hitler.
So if I am one of the women in your life, via the internet,
you must be guilty by association as a friend of a Hitler-wannabe?

Do I need to grow a mustache? I better start brushing up on
my Neo-Nazism if I am going to live up to my new image and not disapppoint Breezewood
by turning out to be a sensitive kid who cares about everyone and does not want anyone to suffer.
I think BW would be crushed that I am not out to launch the next big genocide or Armageddon.
Are there manuals online that I can look up for step by step instructions?

TAZ offered to pop popcorn with all the hot air I was producing on this thread.

Perhaps we should sit back and enjoy these antics and drama
to all that popcorn!

I've discovered, whenever you dare to challenge the fascist-like thoughts of an Atheist... look the fuck out! They can get particularly nasty and surly. Not sure what bee has gotten into Breeze's bonnet, we generally get a more peaceful Buddhist vibe from him/her.

I think you do a great job of trying to mediate, but I think you fail to understand these people are not interested in mediation. They will either troll the thread with insults and denigrations, or pop in now and then to interject some stupidity, or twist and distort your words to create false arguments they can defeat. No other option exists. They are not going to see things any different way, they aren't interested in that.

I've been arguing with these fools for over 15 years, they never change.

Well, now I am trying more daring humor than before.
The fastest way to shut someone up is to say "you're right"
so how to say that creatively?

A friend of mine used to say: TACTFULNESS is telling someone to go to hell and having them look forward to the trip.

 

[Hollie]

I understand exactly what he's saying. He's been lied to by the women in his life so many times before that he doesn't believe in truth existing.

PS Try to keep your answers a tad shorter. Nobody likes a long-winded blowhard.

Lied to by the women in my life? Do you know me? Do you know anything about my life or the women in it? OR are you a pinhead who is butt-hurt because you can't formulate a rational argument against me? I never said truth didn't exist. I said we can't KNOW truth, we can only BELIEVE truth.

Yes.... Everyone keep your answers shorter for the nitwit who can't formulate rational arguments or respond to the topic of the thread.

Well, Breezewood just compared me to Hitler.
So if I am one of the women in your life, via the internet,
you must be guilty by association as a friend of a Hitler-wannabe?

Do I need to grow a mustache? I better start brushing up on
my Neo-Nazism if I am going to live up to my new image and not disapppoint Breezewood
by turning out to be a sensitive kid who cares about everyone and does not want anyone to suffer.
I think BW would be crushed that I am not out to launch the next big genocide or Armageddon.
Are there manuals online that I can look up for step by step instructions?

TAZ offered to pop popcorn with all the hot air I was producing on this thread.

Perhaps we should sit back and enjoy these antics and drama
to all that popcorn!

I've discovered, whenever you dare to challenge the fascist-like thoughts of an Atheist... look the fuck out! They can get particularly nasty and surly. Not sure what bee has gotten into Breeze's bonnet, we generally get a more peaceful Buddhist vibe from him/her.

I think you do a great job of trying to mediate, but I think you fail to understand these people are not interested in mediation. They will either troll the thread with insults and denigrations, or pop in now and then to interject some stupidity, or twist and distort your words to create false arguments they can defeat. No other option exists. They are not going to see things any different way, they aren't interested in that.

I've been arguing with these fools for over 15 years, they never change.

The problem you have is that your proselytizing in support of your cult of spirit realm'ists is just not convincing.

 

[Boss]

The problem you have is that your proselytizing in support of your cult of spirit realm'ists is just not convincing.

cult
kəlt/
noun
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

That more aptly describes YOU, honey britches. Only about 5% of us believe in the magic Nothingness Fairy. The rest of us believe in something spiritual. You're in the vast minority of stupid people.

 

[Hollie]

The problem you have is that your proselytizing in support of your cult of spirit realm'ists is just not convincing.

cult

kəlt/
noun
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

That more aptly describes YOU, honey britches. Only about 5% of us believe in the magic Nothingness Fairy. The rest of us believe in something spiritual. You're in the vast minority of stupid people.

I can understand that you're angry and self-hating. For all your attempts at promoting spirit realms and magical gawds, you're still a cult of one.

 

[Justin Davis]

Ah, but the OP did not ask for PROOF based on any syllogism or anything else. It asked for a syllogistic argument for the existence of god. And there are plenty of those.

Fair enough except he qualified it with the modifiers "sound" and "valid" which entails logically correct and factually supported. That sounds a lot like "proof."

While I did thank you for the post. Wrong! The evidence, both rational and empirical, overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that God must be, and the term God as Creator, in spite of what some are saying, is the first and foremost descriptor in every one of the classical proofs for His existence, with the Transcendental Argument being the hands down most powerfully compelling. Moreover, the descriptor Creator necessarily is the first and penultimate essence of the universal construct of God as the uncaused Cause of everything else that exists. We do not rationally assume anything less than the highest expression of this construct, sentience, without begging the question. Hence, Creator!

These are proofs, logical proofs. Science doesn't prove things at all. Logic proves or disproves things. Logic tells us what is coherently rational and, therefore, possible. It is the use of logic and the conventions of philosophy by which we dictate the parameters of science, which only tentatively verifies or falsifies things, and it is logic that is applied to the processes of the scientific method that tells us what things are justifiably verified or falsified, and tells us what the distinction is between the two.

Logic necessarily entails propositions of linguistic and mathematical proofs!

For all the science loathing vitriol spewed by you religious cranks, all that remains is the use of evidence and reason to discriminate between which of our competing theories deserves the greatest confidence. And since we actually have direct observational evidence that natural law exists (and has existed as far back in time as we can observe), while we have no observational evidence of any kind that "gods" exist, the choice is not a difficult one. At least... not difficult for an objective judge who has managed to divorce themselves from a prior commitment to dogma.

Still cock blocking, I see. Still spouting pseudoscientific nonsense.

Still a crude, ignorant low life, I see.

For all the warm and fuzzy mystical attractiveness generated from appeals to magical gawds and supernatural realms, I must point out that a demonstration or some evidence of these gods is in order before we can move on to something more than wishful thinking. Your “feelings” of gods are firmly in the realm of wishful speculation and it will be a stretch from here to something deserving of serious consideration

Science is based on theory that is backed up by facts and mountains of data. That we all know, and it is demonstrable, even if folks like you cavalierly dismiss it (and sound laughably like flat-earthers by doing so, by the way). You religious zealots assert a supernatural cause and can't even answer the most fundamentally flawed elements of your own appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

You're right. Theists are fools, idiots, morons, flat earthers, jackasses, liars, creeps, zealots, magical thinkers, charlatans. I know you've called us those things. If there's any other names you've called us, you're right about those too. All of your insults are true. Theists are worthless, stupid pigs. They are never right. They are wrong about everything. You are the only one who is ever right. Amen. May the force be with you.

 

[Hollie]

Fair enough except he qualified it with the modifiers "sound" and "valid" which entails logically correct and factually supported. That sounds a lot like "proof."

While I did thank you for the post. Wrong! The evidence, both rational and empirical, overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that God must be, and the term God as Creator, in spite of what some are saying, is the first and foremost descriptor in every one of the classical proofs for His existence, with the Transcendental Argument being the hands down most powerfully compelling. Moreover, the descriptor Creator necessarily is the first and penultimate essence of the universal construct of God as the uncaused Cause of everything else that exists. We do not rationally assume anything less than the highest expression of this construct, sentience, without begging the question. Hence, Creator!

These are proofs, logical proofs. Science doesn't prove things at all. Logic proves or disproves things. Logic tells us what is coherently rational and, therefore, possible. It is the use of logic and the conventions of philosophy by which we dictate the parameters of science, which only tentatively verifies or falsifies things, and it is logic that is applied to the processes of the scientific method that tells us what things are justifiably verified or falsified, and tells us what the distinction is between the two.

Logic necessarily entails propositions of linguistic and mathematical proofs!

For all the science loathing vitriol spewed by you religious cranks, all that remains is the use of evidence and reason to discriminate between which of our competing theories deserves the greatest confidence. And since we actually have direct observational evidence that natural law exists (and has existed as far back in time as we can observe), while we have no observational evidence of any kind that "gods" exist, the choice is not a difficult one. At least... not difficult for an objective judge who has managed to divorce themselves from a prior commitment to dogma.

Still cock blocking, I see. Still spouting pseudoscientific nonsense.

Still a crude, ignorant low life, I see.

For all the warm and fuzzy mystical attractiveness generated from appeals to magical gawds and supernatural realms, I must point out that a demonstration or some evidence of these gods is in order before we can move on to something more than wishful thinking. Your “feelings” of gods are firmly in the realm of wishful speculation and it will be a stretch from here to something deserving of serious consideration

Science is based on theory that is backed up by facts and mountains of data. That we all know, and it is demonstrable, even if folks like you cavalierly dismiss it (and sound laughably like flat-earthers by doing so, by the way). You religious zealots assert a supernatural cause and can't even answer the most fundamentally flawed elements of your own appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

You're right. Theists are fools, idiots, morons, flat earthers, jackasses, liars, creeps, zealots, magical thinkers, charlatans. I know you've called us those things. If there's any other names you've called us, you're right about those too. All of your insults are true. Theists are worthless, stupid pigs. They are never right. They are wrong about everything. You are the only one who is ever right. Amen. May the force be with you.

If you're going to make absolute claims that require belief in magic and supernaturalism and which are utterly unsupported with facts or evidence, well, if the shoe fits....

 

[Justin Davis]

Fair enough except he qualified it with the modifiers "sound" and "valid" which entails logically correct and factually supported. That sounds a lot like "proof."

While I did thank you for the post. Wrong! The evidence, both rational and empirical, overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that God must be, and the term God as Creator, in spite of what some are saying, is the first and foremost descriptor in every one of the classical proofs for His existence, with the Transcendental Argument being the hands down most powerfully compelling. Moreover, the descriptor Creator necessarily is the first and penultimate essence of the universal construct of God as the uncaused Cause of everything else that exists. We do not rationally assume anything less than the highest expression of this construct, sentience, without begging the question. Hence, Creator!

These are proofs, logical proofs. Science doesn't prove things at all. Logic proves or disproves things. Logic tells us what is coherently rational and, therefore, possible. It is the use of logic and the conventions of philosophy by which we dictate the parameters of science, which only tentatively verifies or falsifies things, and it is logic that is applied to the processes of the scientific method that tells us what things are justifiably verified or falsified, and tells us what the distinction is between the two.

Logic necessarily entails propositions of linguistic and mathematical proofs!

For all the science loathing vitriol spewed by you religious cranks, all that remains is the use of evidence and reason to discriminate between which of our competing theories deserves the greatest confidence. And since we actually have direct observational evidence that natural law exists (and has existed as far back in time as we can observe), while we have no observational evidence of any kind that "gods" exist, the choice is not a difficult one. At least... not difficult for an objective judge who has managed to divorce themselves from a prior commitment to dogma.

Still cock blocking, I see. Still spouting pseudoscientific nonsense.

Still a crude, ignorant low life, I see.

For all the warm and fuzzy mystical attractiveness generated from appeals to magical gawds and supernatural realms, I must point out that a demonstration or some evidence of these gods is in order before we can move on to something more than wishful thinking. Your “feelings” of gods are firmly in the realm of wishful speculation and it will be a stretch from here to something deserving of serious consideration

Science is based on theory that is backed up by facts and mountains of data. That we all know, and it is demonstrable, even if folks like you cavalierly dismiss it (and sound laughably like flat-earthers by doing so, by the way). You religious zealots assert a supernatural cause and can't even answer the most fundamentally flawed elements of your own appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

What I've come to learn is a theist can explain everything away. Look how many of them don't even dare argue anymore that the bible stories are real? Well they are still Christians, aren't they? And then how about the ones who can't even argue for Christianity or Islam or whatever so they argue for a generic god, which is exactly where all this probably started. Our ancient cavemen forefathers invented gods, then eventually the head caveman or king said he was a god and used god(s) to explain things he didn't know, and then one day they made up the Greek, Egyptian, Abraham 3, Mormons say god talked to them in 1800. We came from a very superstitious people. Not very bright.

Anyways, it is a question we have been asking since we were cavemen. But the fact is, back then we made it up, and god has never visited, and still here we are with all the "mountains" of evidence we have that god was just made up, but still some cavemen in the clan won't evolve. In fact probably 7 out of 10 people or 6 out of 10 will always believe in god no matter what.

It's just what degree of crazy are they. If they just believe and argue for generic god, no big deal. It wasn't till chief caveman started using god to control the masses and until they started making up stories about how god visited and told them he loved them and to go to war with everyone else that we started having problems.

What I've come to learn is that atheists know everything about everything, but never tell us anything about anything except everything they know about theists.



Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.



In the future, just copy and paste that paragraph since all of your posts amount to that and nothing else.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.

 

[Justin Davis]

While I did thank you for the post. Wrong! The evidence, both rational and empirical, overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that God must be, and the term God as Creator, in spite of what some are saying, is the first and foremost descriptor in every one of the classical proofs for His existence, with the Transcendental Argument being the hands down most powerfully compelling. Moreover, the descriptor Creator necessarily is the first and penultimate essence of the universal construct of God as the uncaused Cause of everything else that exists. We do not rationally assume anything less than the highest expression of this construct, sentience, without begging the question. Hence, Creator!

These are proofs, logical proofs. Science doesn't prove things at all. Logic proves or disproves things. Logic tells us what is coherently rational and, therefore, possible. It is the use of logic and the conventions of philosophy by which we dictate the parameters of science, which only tentatively verifies or falsifies things, and it is logic that is applied to the processes of the scientific method that tells us what things are justifiably verified or falsified, and tells us what the distinction is between the two.

Logic necessarily entails propositions of linguistic and mathematical proofs!

For all the science loathing vitriol spewed by you religious cranks, all that remains is the use of evidence and reason to discriminate between which of our competing theories deserves the greatest confidence. And since we actually have direct observational evidence that natural law exists (and has existed as far back in time as we can observe), while we have no observational evidence of any kind that "gods" exist, the choice is not a difficult one. At least... not difficult for an objective judge who has managed to divorce themselves from a prior commitment to dogma.

Still cock blocking, I see. Still spouting pseudoscientific nonsense.

Still a crude, ignorant low life, I see.

For all the warm and fuzzy mystical attractiveness generated from appeals to magical gawds and supernatural realms, I must point out that a demonstration or some evidence of these gods is in order before we can move on to something more than wishful thinking. Your “feelings” of gods are firmly in the realm of wishful speculation and it will be a stretch from here to something deserving of serious consideration

Science is based on theory that is backed up by facts and mountains of data. That we all know, and it is demonstrable, even if folks like you cavalierly dismiss it (and sound laughably like flat-earthers by doing so, by the way). You religious zealots assert a supernatural cause and can't even answer the most fundamentally flawed elements of your own appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

You're right. Theists are fools, idiots, morons, flat earthers, jackasses, liars, creeps, zealots, magical thinkers, charlatans. I know you've called us those things. If there's any other names you've called us, you're right about those too. All of your insults are true. Theists are worthless, stupid pigs. They are never right. They are wrong about everything. You are the only one who is ever right. Amen. May the force be with you.

If you're going to make absolute claims that require belief in magic and supernaturalism and which are utterly unsupported with facts or evidence, well, if the shoe fits....

Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.

Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.

Amen. May the force be with you.

 

[Justin Davis]

Folks are turning the ABCs of a very simple matter into rocket science. Everybody with a sound, developmentally mature mind knows or apprehends these things about the problems of existence and origin:

The Seven Things
1. We exist!
2. The cosmological order exists!
3. The idea that God exists as the Creator of everything else that exists, exists in our minds! So the possibility that God exists cannot be logically ruled out!
4. If God does exist, He would necessarily be, logically, a Being of unparalleled greatness!
5. Currently, science cannot verify whether or not God exists!
6. It is not logically possible to say or think that God (the Creator) doesn't exist, whether He actually exists outside the logic of our minds or not (See Posts 2599 and 2600)!
7. All six of the above things are objectively, universally and logically true for human knowers/thinkers!

Those are the facts of human cognition regarding the problems of existence and origin. The objective facts of human cognition report, you decide. God just might be waiting for you on the other side of that leap of faith. There's plenty of rational and empirical evidence for His existence. Take the leap of faith now or don't. It's your decision, not mine.​

All the rest of the things I've talked about go to the apprehensible details of #4. Not everybody can follow that or will even try because they've made up their minds about things they know nothing about or have never thought about.

But what all can and should logically understand, that which is self-evident, regarding #4: to assume that the reality of the construct of God would be anything less than the very highest conceivable standard of being unjustifiably begs the question. From an objective standpoint, finite minds are in no position to rationally presuppose anything less, as such a thing would necessarily be an apriority of a purely subjective standard of belief. An objective standard presupposes nothing less than infinitely unparalleled greatness and, therefore, absolute perfection.

It doesn’t matter that we can't comprehend the totality of that. We can and do apprehend the meaning of a highest conceivable standard of perfection whatever that may entail. In other words, logically, nothing created could be greater than the Creator of all other things, and what is the highest conceivable standard of being in this regard: an eternally and transcendentally self-subsistent, i.e., non-contingent, sentient Being of infinitely absolute perfection!

Earlier it was wrongfully asserted, in my opinion, that the objective standard was not biblical. Well, goody, but even if that were true, that would be the interposition of a purely subjective standard of belief that is not going to wash with any person who recognizes the objectively uncontestable standard that doesn't beg the question. In short, objectively, it's the only standard that leaves the matter open-ended without any conceivable allegation of preconceived bias.
__________________________________

By the way, something just occurred to me. I think I wrote interjection earlier on this thread in the place of interposition. LOL! Yippee! Yahoo!

Commonsense. Children from the age of 12 up understand these things.

Why are we debating about these things? Why are we debating over the understanding that GOD in the greatest and ultimate sense would necessarily mean CREATOR?

People have gone mad. They've lost their minds. That's the whole point of arguments or evidence for God's existence. Something or Someone is the first uncaused Cause of all other things.

CREATOR. CREATOR. CREATOR. CREATOR.

 

[Hollie]

For all the science loathing vitriol spewed by you religious cranks, all that remains is the use of evidence and reason to discriminate between which of our competing theories deserves the greatest confidence. And since we actually have direct observational evidence that natural law exists (and has existed as far back in time as we can observe), while we have no observational evidence of any kind that "gods" exist, the choice is not a difficult one. At least... not difficult for an objective judge who has managed to divorce themselves from a prior commitment to dogma.

Still cock blocking, I see. Still spouting pseudoscientific nonsense.

Still a crude, ignorant low life, I see.

For all the warm and fuzzy mystical attractiveness generated from appeals to magical gawds and supernatural realms, I must point out that a demonstration or some evidence of these gods is in order before we can move on to something more than wishful thinking. Your “feelings” of gods are firmly in the realm of wishful speculation and it will be a stretch from here to something deserving of serious consideration

Science is based on theory that is backed up by facts and mountains of data. That we all know, and it is demonstrable, even if folks like you cavalierly dismiss it (and sound laughably like flat-earthers by doing so, by the way). You religious zealots assert a supernatural cause and can't even answer the most fundamentally flawed elements of your own appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

You're right. Theists are fools, idiots, morons, flat earthers, jackasses, liars, creeps, zealots, magical thinkers, charlatans. I know you've called us those things. If there's any other names you've called us, you're right about those too. All of your insults are true. Theists are worthless, stupid pigs. They are never right. They are wrong about everything. You are the only one who is ever right. Amen. May the force be with you.

If you're going to make absolute claims that require belief in magic and supernaturalism and which are utterly unsupported with facts or evidence, well, if the shoe fits....

Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.

Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.

Amen. May the force be with you.

Confession is good for the soul.

 

[Justin Davis]

While I did thank you for the post. Wrong! The evidence, both rational and empirical, overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that God must be, and the term God as Creator, in spite of what some are saying, is the first and foremost descriptor in every one of the classical proofs for His existence, with the Transcendental Argument being the hands down most powerfully compelling. Moreover, the descriptor Creator necessarily is the first and penultimate essence of the universal construct of God as the uncaused Cause of everything else that exists. We do not rationally assume anything less than the highest expression of this construct, sentience, without begging the question. Hence, Creator!

These are proofs, logical proofs. Science doesn't prove things at all. Logic proves or disproves things. Logic tells us what is coherently rational and, therefore, possible. It is the use of logic and the conventions of philosophy by which we dictate the parameters of science, which only tentatively verifies or falsifies things, and it is logic that is applied to the processes of the scientific method that tells us what things are justifiably verified or falsified, and tells us what the distinction is between the two.

Logic necessarily entails propositions of linguistic and mathematical proofs!

For all the science loathing vitriol spewed by you religious cranks, all that remains is the use of evidence and reason to discriminate between which of our competing theories deserves the greatest confidence. And since we actually have direct observational evidence that natural law exists (and has existed as far back in time as we can observe), while we have no observational evidence of any kind that "gods" exist, the choice is not a difficult one. At least... not difficult for an objective judge who has managed to divorce themselves from a prior commitment to dogma.

Still cock blocking, I see. Still spouting pseudoscientific nonsense.

Still a crude, ignorant low life, I see.

For all the warm and fuzzy mystical attractiveness generated from appeals to magical gawds and supernatural realms, I must point out that a demonstration or some evidence of these gods is in order before we can move on to something more than wishful thinking. Your “feelings” of gods are firmly in the realm of wishful speculation and it will be a stretch from here to something deserving of serious consideration

Science is based on theory that is backed up by facts and mountains of data. That we all know, and it is demonstrable, even if folks like you cavalierly dismiss it (and sound laughably like flat-earthers by doing so, by the way). You religious zealots assert a supernatural cause and can't even answer the most fundamentally flawed elements of your own appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

You're right. Theists are fools, idiots, morons, flat earthers, jackasses, liars, creeps, zealots, magical thinkers, charlatans. I know you've called us those things. If there's any other names you've called us, you're right about those too. All of your insults are true. Theists are worthless, stupid pigs. They are never right. They are wrong about everything. You are the only one who is ever right. Amen. May the force be with you.

If you're going to make absolute claims that require belief in magic and supernaturalism and which are utterly unsupported with facts or evidence, well, if the shoe fits....

It's you who is making the absolute claim around here. Explain to us how you, a finite being, knows that God, a possibility that cannot be logically eliminated, doesn't exist.

Explain to us how it is logically possible for you to say God doesn't exist. Tell us what this statement really means: "I, Hollie, a finite being, know that God (the Creator) doesn't exist."

But of course:

Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.

Amen. May the force be with you

 

[Hollie]

For all the science loathing vitriol spewed by you religious cranks, all that remains is the use of evidence and reason to discriminate between which of our competing theories deserves the greatest confidence. And since we actually have direct observational evidence that natural law exists (and has existed as far back in time as we can observe), while we have no observational evidence of any kind that "gods" exist, the choice is not a difficult one. At least... not difficult for an objective judge who has managed to divorce themselves from a prior commitment to dogma.

Still cock blocking, I see. Still spouting pseudoscientific nonsense.

Still a crude, ignorant low life, I see.

For all the warm and fuzzy mystical attractiveness generated from appeals to magical gawds and supernatural realms, I must point out that a demonstration or some evidence of these gods is in order before we can move on to something more than wishful thinking. Your “feelings” of gods are firmly in the realm of wishful speculation and it will be a stretch from here to something deserving of serious consideration

Science is based on theory that is backed up by facts and mountains of data. That we all know, and it is demonstrable, even if folks like you cavalierly dismiss it (and sound laughably like flat-earthers by doing so, by the way). You religious zealots assert a supernatural cause and can't even answer the most fundamentally flawed elements of your own appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

You're right. Theists are fools, idiots, morons, flat earthers, jackasses, liars, creeps, zealots, magical thinkers, charlatans. I know you've called us those things. If there's any other names you've called us, you're right about those too. All of your insults are true. Theists are worthless, stupid pigs. They are never right. They are wrong about everything. You are the only one who is ever right. Amen. May the force be with you.

If you're going to make absolute claims that require belief in magic and supernaturalism and which are utterly unsupported with facts or evidence, well, if the shoe fits....

It's you who is making the absolute claim around here. Explain to us how you, a finite being, knows that God, a possibility that cannot be logically eliminated, doesn't exist.

Explain to us how it is logically possible for you to say God doesn't exist. Tell us what this statement really means: "I, Hollie, a finite being, know that God (the Creator) doesn't exist."

But of course:

Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.


Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid. Theists are stupid.

Amen. May the force be with you

Actually, it is you religious extremists who are the ones making absolute claims to a magical, supernatural entity.