Is there such thing as "universal morality"?

[ding]

You are literally proving my point that people without faith are prone to complaint when life gives them lemons.

You need to raise your standards. Your perfect, all-powerful God created a deeply flawed world. Are all religions evil but one? Do we need to believe in something we can't see, touch, or hear? Something that could easily reveal himself but chooses not to yet still judges us on if we believe or not.

Atheists value life, I know I do. We may value it more than theists since we don't believe in an afterlife. When we kill someone they are gone completely, we're not sending them to a "better place" to continue on. We can't rationalize war as killing in the name of God.

I think the world is an amazing place. Why is it that you only see the flaws?

Your faith tells you that a perfect God must have created a perfect world. He didn't but you can only ignore the flaws and contradictions.

No. I don’t believe my faith does tell me that. Where does my faith tell me that? It tells me that men are effectively rebels.

 

[ding]

]Everyone who doesn't transfer their power or control to external sources controls their own destiny. To not believe you control your destiny would be the definition of fatalism. That nothing you do matters because things will turn out beyond your control. You seem to believe that things like not be able to control who your parents are or which country you were born in or which talents or obstacles you were born with or your gender means you don't control much of your destiny. Is that correct? Because I wholeheartedly disagree. The number of things that are in your control are orders of orders of magnitude beyond the things you don't control. Not only that but you can adapt, improvise and overcome the things you don't control as well.

For Christians, the ultimate objective is heaven and Jesus is the way. What of a child born in a rural village in Egypt. His family and everyone he knows is a Muslim. How can you say that it doesn't matter who your parents are or which country you were born in? Some small percent of every religion may convert but that Egyptian child will almost certainly not be one of them.

Wrong. It’s the journey.

What is the journey of a fetus that miscarries?

It dies. What does that have to do with faith being about how to live and not how to die?

 

[ding]

Don’t you know that truth is discovered?

That may be true but nothing about God is discovered. If it were Aztecs and Sri Lankans would worship the same God in the same way.

Different people worship God in different ways. We all don’t have to believe the same things for there to be a creator of existence. The evidence for God is in his creation, not the multitude of ways man has chosen to worship him.

 

[ding]

The feedback you are giving me isn’t the feedback I am talking about.

If you pick and choose what feedback you'll accept, it really isn't feedback.

Feedback in the form of consequences and outcomes. We are all free to ignore them and rationalize them away but we will keep being brought back to the lesson until we learn from it.

 

[alang1216]

Your faith tells you that a perfect God must have created a perfect world. He didn't but you can only ignore the flaws and contradictions.

No. I don’t believe my faith does tell me that. Where does my faith tell me that? It tells me that men are effectively rebels.[/QUOTE]
Can you imagine any improvements to this world you'd make if you were God? I'd get rid of viruses first thing. Or do you think every virus is created by God for a reason and not just to make us suffer?

 

[alang1216]

Different people worship God in different ways. We all don’t have to believe the same things for there to be a creator of existence. The evidence for God is in his creation, not the multitude of ways man has chosen to worship him.

So looping back to the OP, how do the Aztec's human sacrifice and the Sri Lankan vegetarianism demonstrate a universal morality?

 

[ding]

Your faith tells you that a perfect God must have created a perfect world. He didn't but you can only ignore the flaws and contradictions.

No. I don’t believe my faith does tell me that. Where does my faith tell me that? It tells me that men are effectively rebels.

Can you imagine any improvements to this world you'd make if you were God? I'd get rid of viruses first thing. Or do you think every virus is created by God for a reason and not just to make us suffer?

I think you don’t believe there is a creator so you can’t possibly see how everything works for good. All you see are negatives. It’s like the only way you can believe consciousness without form exists is if it does magic tricks for you. You literally expect God to make everything perfect. Do you believe that is a reasonable expectation?

 

[ding]

Different people worship God in different ways. We all don’t have to believe the same things for there to be a creator of existence. The evidence for God is in his creation, not the multitude of ways man has chosen to worship him.

So looping back to the OP, how do the Aztec's human sacrifice and the Sri Lankan vegetarianism demonstrate a universal morality?

The same way we still have crimes that violate the standard of laws.

You think just because we don’t all act the same way there are no universal standards that exist independent of man?

 

[alang1216]

I think you don’t believe there is a creator so you can’t possibly see how everything works for good. All you see are negatives. It’s like the only way you can believe consciousness without form exists is if it does magic tricks for you. You literally expect God to make everything perfect. Do you believe that is a reasonable expectation?

I believe a perfect God would make a logical and rational universe. Nature is both but God is not. Does he judge us but gives us incomplete, changing, and contradictory information on the rules?

 

[ding]

I think you don’t believe there is a creator so you can’t possibly see how everything works for good. All you see are negatives. It’s like the only way you can believe consciousness without form exists is if it does magic tricks for you. You literally expect God to make everything perfect. Do you believe that is a reasonable expectation?

I believe a perfect God would make a logical and rational universe. Nature is both but God is not. Does he judge us but gives us incomplete, changing, and contradictory information on the rules?

Our universe is logical and rational. There has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything that happens happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

So all of these things that happen that you believe are irrational are in reality rational. Each one can be explained because we live in a rational universe. You are literally arguing that God should control our actions or there can be no God. On its face that is a irrational belief but in reality it is rational because you are rationalizing your disbelief in irrational ways.

 

[Taz]

I think you don’t believe there is a creator so you can’t possibly see how everything works for good. All you see are negatives. It’s like the only way you can believe consciousness without form exists is if it does magic tricks for you. You literally expect God to make everything perfect. Do you believe that is a reasonable expectation?

I believe a perfect God would make a logical and rational universe. Nature is both but God is not. Does he judge us but gives us incomplete, changing, and contradictory information on the rules?

Our universe is logical and rational. There has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything that happens happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

So all of these things that happen that you believe are irrational are in reality rational. Each one can be explained because we live in a rational universe. You are literally arguing that God should control our actions or there can be no God. On its face that is a irrational belief but in reality it is rational because you are rationalizing your disbelief in irrational ways.

^^^^^^^ Totally irrational.

 

[alang1216]

I think you don’t believe there is a creator so you can’t possibly see how everything works for good. All you see are negatives. It’s like the only way you can believe consciousness without form exists is if it does magic tricks for you. You literally expect God to make everything perfect. Do you believe that is a reasonable expectation?

I believe a perfect God would make a logical and rational universe. Nature is both but God is not. Does he judge us but gives us incomplete, changing, and contradictory information on the rules?

Our universe is logical and rational. There has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything that happens happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

So all of these things that happen that you believe are irrational are in reality rational. Each one can be explained because we live in a rational universe. You are literally arguing that God should control our actions or there can be no God. On its face that is a irrational belief but in reality it is rational because you are rationalizing your disbelief in irrational ways.

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

 

[ding]

I think you don’t believe there is a creator so you can’t possibly see how everything works for good. All you see are negatives. It’s like the only way you can believe consciousness without form exists is if it does magic tricks for you. You literally expect God to make everything perfect. Do you believe that is a reasonable expectation?

I believe a perfect God would make a logical and rational universe. Nature is both but God is not. Does he judge us but gives us incomplete, changing, and contradictory information on the rules?

Our universe is logical and rational. There has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything that happens happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

So all of these things that happen that you believe are irrational are in reality rational. Each one can be explained because we live in a rational universe. You are literally arguing that God should control our actions or there can be no God. On its face that is a irrational belief but in reality it is rational because you are rationalizing your disbelief in irrational ways.

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

You are assuming space and time were not created by spirit, right?

 

[alang1216]

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

You are assuming space and time were not created by spirit, right?

I have no clue and I'm sure no one else does either.

 

[Taz]

I think you don’t believe there is a creator so you can’t possibly see how everything works for good. All you see are negatives. It’s like the only way you can believe consciousness without form exists is if it does magic tricks for you. You literally expect God to make everything perfect. Do you believe that is a reasonable expectation?

I believe a perfect God would make a logical and rational universe. Nature is both but God is not. Does he judge us but gives us incomplete, changing, and contradictory information on the rules?

Our universe is logical and rational. There has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything that happens happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

So all of these things that happen that you believe are irrational are in reality rational. Each one can be explained because we live in a rational universe. You are literally arguing that God should control our actions or there can be no God. On its face that is a irrational belief but in reality it is rational because you are rationalizing your disbelief in irrational ways.

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

You are assuming space and time were not created by spirit, right?

No proof of that and you know it.

 

[ding]

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

You are assuming space and time were not created by spirit, right?

I have no clue and I'm sure no one else does either.

Well that’s the heart of the debate, right?

If spirit created the material world then why couldn’t spirit alter the material world?

 

[ding]

I think you don’t believe there is a creator so you can’t possibly see how everything works for good. All you see are negatives. It’s like the only way you can believe consciousness without form exists is if it does magic tricks for you. You literally expect God to make everything perfect. Do you believe that is a reasonable expectation?

I believe a perfect God would make a logical and rational universe. Nature is both but God is not. Does he judge us but gives us incomplete, changing, and contradictory information on the rules?

Our universe is logical and rational. There has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything that happens happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

So all of these things that happen that you believe are irrational are in reality rational. Each one can be explained because we live in a rational universe. You are literally arguing that God should control our actions or there can be no God. On its face that is a irrational belief but in reality it is rational because you are rationalizing your disbelief in irrational ways.

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

You are assuming space and time were not created by spirit, right?

No proof of that and you know it.

Tons of proof. We’ve been over it before.

 

[Taz]

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

You are assuming space and time were not created by spirit, right?

I have no clue and I'm sure no one else does either.

Well that’s the heart of the debate, right?

If spirit created the material world then why couldn’t spirit alter the material world?

Why would spirit make deformed babies?

 

[ding]

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

You are assuming space and time were not created by spirit, right?

I have no clue and I'm sure no one else does either.

Well that’s the heart of the debate, right?

If spirit created the material world then why couldn’t spirit alter the material world?

Why would spirit make deformed babies?

It’s not like God is controlling everything, Taz.

Why would you expect utopia?

 

[Taz]

I believe a perfect God would make a logical and rational universe. Nature is both but God is not. Does he judge us but gives us incomplete, changing, and contradictory information on the rules?

Our universe is logical and rational. There has never been an uncaused event. Which means that everything that happens happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

So all of these things that happen that you believe are irrational are in reality rational. Each one can be explained because we live in a rational universe. You are literally arguing that God should control our actions or there can be no God. On its face that is a irrational belief but in reality it is rational because you are rationalizing your disbelief in irrational ways.

Logic and rationality can only be applied to the natural world. We know the laws of physics pretty well so it is irrational to believe that the sun could stop in its' orbit or a global flood could happen or someone could rise from the dead. These are supernatural events with no natural cause.

You are assuming space and time were not created by spirit, right?

No proof of that and you know it.

Tons of proof. We’ve been over it before.

No proof of your invisible friend. You tried but failed.