Is this religion or mental illness?

[YWN666]

Herbert And Catherine Schaible, Faith-Healing Parents, To Hear Evidence In 2 Child Deaths

I don't understand how they were allowed to keep the 2nd child after they let the first one die.

PHILADELPHIA — A Philadelphia couple who believes in faith healing over medicine was ordered Wednesday to stand trial on murder charges in the second pneumonia death of one of their children in a four-year span.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible remained held without bail on third-degree murder charges after their preliminary hearing.

Their two-year-old son Kent died in 2009, followed by 8-month-old Brandon in April. Prosecutors contend both boys were sick for nearly two weeks.

The Schaibles are both third-generation members and former teachers at their small fundamentalist Christian church, the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia. They have seven surviving children.

"We believe in divine healing, that Jesus shed blood for our healing and that he died on the cross to break the devil's power," Herbert Schaible, 44, said in a police statement read in court Wednesday. Medicine, he said, "is against our religious beliefs."

Added his wife, in her statement: "It means that we pray and ask to be healed the way that Jesus did when he was on Earth."

A jury had convicted them of involuntary manslaughter in Kent's death, and they were put on 10 years of probation that included orders to seek medical care if any other child got sick.

After Brandon's death, an irate judge found they had violated parole and sent them to prison.

However, defense lawyer Bobby Hoof, fighting the murder charge Wednesday, said Brandon's autopsy states that he had symptoms for just three days.

"It's not unreasonable for parents to wait three days to seek medical care," Hoof argued.

Prosecutors have described the boys' symptoms as "eerily similar," and said they included labored breathing and a refusal to eat. Catherine Schaible's lawyer, though, said her client tried to feed Brandon during his illness, and applied baby powder to keep him comfortable. And the evidence shows he had food in his system, she said.

"This was a mother who certainly, until the very end, was giving this child a lot of love. To take from that that she acted with malice was more than just a stretch," public defender Mythri Jayaraman said after the hearing.

Their pastor, Nelson Clark, has said the Schaibles lost their sons because of a "spiritual lack" in their lives and insisted they would not seek medical care even if another child appeared near death.

Their other children, the oldest nearly 18, are now in foster care.

The Schaibles return to court July 3 to be formally arraigned on murder, involuntary manslaughter, child endangerment and conspiracy charges.

 

[Katzndogz]

I thought this was about global warming. Sorry.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

It's a combination of religion and religious zealotism, which can be a form of mental illness.

 

[daws101]

Religion as a trigger for schizophrenia[edit]

Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly-held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions.[13] It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment
Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[YWN666]

Religion as a trigger for schizophrenia[edit]

Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly-held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions.[13] It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment
Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it is also possible that people that already have mental issues are drawn towards extremist religion. What other environment allows one to make outlandish clams and not have to prove it?

 

[daws101]

Religion as a trigger for schizophrenia[edit]

Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly-held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions.[13] It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment
Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it is also possible that people that already have mental issues are drawn towards extremist religion. What other environment allows one to make outlandish clams and not have to prove it?

100%correct.

 

[Chuckt]

WYN666,

This is not the second time this has happened. I remember back around 1992 it happened and I would have to dig out my files but I think it is allegedly the same church.

They are basically tempting God which is against God's commandment. Imagine if you had the choice to go to the hospital or tempt God with the consequences of not going? What would you do? We're God's servants and servants do not normally tell God what to do so anything like that is not normal.

Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

The second thing is they are a cult and have shown up in my periodicals on cults.

The third thing is that the Bible isn't against medicine:

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

There are other things going on which we may or may not know about that helps the cult function.

Chuck

 

[Gadawg73]

Religion as a trigger for schizophrenia[edit]

Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly-held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions.[13] It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment
Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Schizophrenia is genetic and runs in families.

 

[eots]

Religion as a trigger for schizophrenia[edit]

Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly-held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions.[13] It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment
Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Schizophrenia is genetic and runs in families.

many people with schizophrenia have no close relatives with the illness and there has been no proven genetic link or gene identifed that causes schizophrenia, there is only speculation at this time as to the cause or causes of what we call schizophrenic symptoms

 

[AVG-JOE]

WYN666,

This is not the second time this has happened. I remember back around 1992 it happened and I would have to dig out my files but I think it is allegedly the same church.

They are basically tempting God which is against God's commandment. Imagine if you had the choice to go to the hospital or tempt God with the consequences of not going? What would you do? We're God's servants and servants do not normally tell God what to do so anything like that is not normal.

Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

The second thing is they are a cult and have shown up in my periodicals on cults.

The third thing is that the Bible isn't against medicine:

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

There are other things going on which we may or may not know about that helps the cult function.

Chuck

Is it tempting God to blow-off going to the Doc when you can't afford treatment?

​

 

[Noomi]

Convict them and then when they get deathly ill, tell them to pray for God to save them. If they suffer, tell them it is God's will. If they die, that is God's will as well.

 

[Gadawg73]

Religion as a trigger for schizophrenia[edit]

Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly-held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions.[13] It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment
Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Schizophrenia is genetic and runs in families.

many people with schizophrenia have no close relatives with the illness and there has been no proven genetic link or gene identifed that causes schizophrenia, there is only speculation at this time as to the cause or causes of what we call schizophrenic symptoms

Wrong, that is old thought from 40 years ago.
Schizophrenia is much like diabetes genetically and yes environment does play a small role in it possibly. But not always.
They are narrowing it down to specific genes but genetics it is as the prevalence of it in families with fraternal and identical twins proved that it does run in families and has a very high heritability rate among identical twins, almost 90%.
85% of all heritability rates are related to genetics.

 

[Chuckt]

Is it tempting God to blow-off going to the Doc when you can't afford treatment?

​

I know people who went to the emergency room without money and all they have to do is sign a paper or two saying you don't have money or you promise to pay them back. They haven't been allowed to turn people away if they can't pay. The reason the hospital is so expensive is that we are paying for indigents, medical malpractice and the cost of education.

I had one co-worker who got hurt. He went to the emergency room. They put a collection agency on him and they collection agency started calling him at all hours of the night which is against the law. He told the collection agency he could pay them five dollars a month and they said, "no".

Some people use to be able to go on welfare and get medical treatment.

 

[Chuckt]

Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it is also possible that people that already have mental issues are drawn towards extremist religion. What other environment allows one to make outlandish clams and not have to prove it?[/QUOTE]100%correct.[/QUOTE]

People generally want to be well and reject the notion that they will get sick because they don't want to be sick. It is called pride.

When pride enters the equation, you can't talk to people.

Add that to a false teacher who should be put in jail but isn't put in jail then you have people in spiritual authority over others making bad decisions for them. A person with pride will not listen to those who say they are wrong.

 

[martybegan]

Convict them and then when they get deathly ill, tell them to pray for God to save them. If they suffer, tell them it is God's will. If they die, that is God's will as well.

They have suffered enough. Its not like they did anything active to give the kid freaking pnuemonia.

If we want to live in a free society we have to tolerate things such as this.

 

[YWN666]

WYN666,

This is not the second time this has happened. I remember back around 1992 it happened and I would have to dig out my files but I think it is allegedly the same church.

They are basically tempting God which is against God's commandment. Imagine if you had the choice to go to the hospital or tempt God with the consequences of not going? What would you do? We're God's servants and servants do not normally tell God what to do so anything like that is not normal.

Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

The second thing is they are a cult and have shown up in my periodicals on cults.

The third thing is that the Bible isn't against medicine:

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

There are other things going on which we may or may not know about that helps the cult function.

Chuck

You're correct - it has happened a number of times with this and other families in the same church.

 

[YWN666]

Convict them and then when they get deathly ill, tell them to pray for God to save them. If they suffer, tell them it is God's will. If they die, that is God's will as well.

They have suffered enough. Its not like they did anything active to give the kid freaking pnuemonia.

If we want to live in a free society we have to tolerate things such as this.

No we don't. We have a duty to protect children who can't protect themselves. If the adults want to avoid medical treatment and die, then that is their choice but they can't do that to a child.

 

[daws101]

Religion as a trigger for schizophrenia[edit]

Schizophrenia can be triggered by a variety of environmental factors, including significant stress, intensely emotional situations, and disturbing or uncomfortable experiences. It is possible that religion itself may be a trigger for schizophrenia; religious imagery is often very grandiose, and defies commonly-held beliefs of what is realistic and natural in the world. Experiencing an intense religious experience may trigger a psychotic episode in those who are vulnerable to them, because religion often requires a believer to suspend their usual idea of what is possible and impossible. This could potentially lead to a psychotic episode due to the shift in realistic thinking; a sufferer may believe that they themselves are religious deities or Messiahs, or that God himself is speaking to the individual. It has been shown that those with schizophrenia who suffer from religious delusions are more religious than those who do not suffer from these delusions.[13] It has also been shown that those who suffer from religious delusions are less likely to continue long-term treatment
Religion and schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Schizophrenia is genetic and runs in families.

Family statistics
As can be seen from the graph below, schizophrenia definitely has a very significant genetic component. Those who have a third degree relative with schizophrenia are twice as likely to develop schizophrenia as those in the general population. Those with a second degree relative have a several-fold higher incidence of schizophrenia than the general population, and first degree relatives have an incidence of schizophrenia an order of magnitude higher than the general populace. Following are two images that summarize the average risks for developing schizophrenia for different groups of people. (The statistics in the two images vary slightly due to inclusion of different study data).



(Image Source: Debby Tsuang, M.D., M.Sc., University of Washington/VAPSHCS, Special thanks to Dr. Kristin Cadenhead, UCSD)

(Source: Gottesman, 1991)

It is of much interest, though, that the correlation of schizophrenia between identical twins, who have identical genomes, is less than one-half. This indicates that schizophrenia is NOT entirely a genetic disease.

 

[Smilebong]

Herbert And Catherine Schaible, Faith-Healing Parents, To Hear Evidence In 2 Child Deaths

I don't understand how they were allowed to keep the 2nd child after they let the first one die.

PHILADELPHIA — A Philadelphia couple who believes in faith healing over medicine was ordered Wednesday to stand trial on murder charges in the second pneumonia death of one of their children in a four-year span.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible remained held without bail on third-degree murder charges after their preliminary hearing.

Their two-year-old son Kent died in 2009, followed by 8-month-old Brandon in April. Prosecutors contend both boys were sick for nearly two weeks.

The Schaibles are both third-generation members and former teachers at their small fundamentalist Christian church, the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia. They have seven surviving children.

"We believe in divine healing, that Jesus shed blood for our healing and that he died on the cross to break the devil's power," Herbert Schaible, 44, said in a police statement read in court Wednesday. Medicine, he said, "is against our religious beliefs."

Added his wife, in her statement: "It means that we pray and ask to be healed the way that Jesus did when he was on Earth."

A jury had convicted them of involuntary manslaughter in Kent's death, and they were put on 10 years of probation that included orders to seek medical care if any other child got sick.

After Brandon's death, an irate judge found they had violated parole and sent them to prison.

However, defense lawyer Bobby Hoof, fighting the murder charge Wednesday, said Brandon's autopsy states that he had symptoms for just three days.

"It's not unreasonable for parents to wait three days to seek medical care," Hoof argued.

Prosecutors have described the boys' symptoms as "eerily similar," and said they included labored breathing and a refusal to eat. Catherine Schaible's lawyer, though, said her client tried to feed Brandon during his illness, and applied baby powder to keep him comfortable. And the evidence shows he had food in his system, she said.

"This was a mother who certainly, until the very end, was giving this child a lot of love. To take from that that she acted with malice was more than just a stretch," public defender Mythri Jayaraman said after the hearing.

Their pastor, Nelson Clark, has said the Schaibles lost their sons because of a "spiritual lack" in their lives and insisted they would not seek medical care even if another child appeared near death.

Their other children, the oldest nearly 18, are now in foster care.

The Schaibles return to court July 3 to be formally arraigned on murder, involuntary manslaughter, child endangerment and conspiracy charges.

These people are stupid, asinine, do not understand the Bible and should be put in prison. And I have two master's degrees in Theology.

 

[daws101]

Herbert And Catherine Schaible, Faith-Healing Parents, To Hear Evidence In 2 Child Deaths

I don't understand how they were allowed to keep the 2nd child after they let the first one die.

PHILADELPHIA — A Philadelphia couple who believes in faith healing over medicine was ordered Wednesday to stand trial on murder charges in the second pneumonia death of one of their children in a four-year span.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible remained held without bail on third-degree murder charges after their preliminary hearing.

Their two-year-old son Kent died in 2009, followed by 8-month-old Brandon in April. Prosecutors contend both boys were sick for nearly two weeks.

The Schaibles are both third-generation members and former teachers at their small fundamentalist Christian church, the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia. They have seven surviving children.

"We believe in divine healing, that Jesus shed blood for our healing and that he died on the cross to break the devil's power," Herbert Schaible, 44, said in a police statement read in court Wednesday. Medicine, he said, "is against our religious beliefs."

Added his wife, in her statement: "It means that we pray and ask to be healed the way that Jesus did when he was on Earth."

A jury had convicted them of involuntary manslaughter in Kent's death, and they were put on 10 years of probation that included orders to seek medical care if any other child got sick.

After Brandon's death, an irate judge found they had violated parole and sent them to prison.

However, defense lawyer Bobby Hoof, fighting the murder charge Wednesday, said Brandon's autopsy states that he had symptoms for just three days.

"It's not unreasonable for parents to wait three days to seek medical care," Hoof argued.

Prosecutors have described the boys' symptoms as "eerily similar," and said they included labored breathing and a refusal to eat. Catherine Schaible's lawyer, though, said her client tried to feed Brandon during his illness, and applied baby powder to keep him comfortable. And the evidence shows he had food in his system, she said.

"This was a mother who certainly, until the very end, was giving this child a lot of love. To take from that that she acted with malice was more than just a stretch," public defender Mythri Jayaraman said after the hearing.

Their pastor, Nelson Clark, has said the Schaibles lost their sons because of a "spiritual lack" in their lives and insisted they would not seek medical care even if another child appeared near death.

Their other children, the oldest nearly 18, are now in foster care.

The Schaibles return to court July 3 to be formally arraigned on murder, involuntary manslaughter, child endangerment and conspiracy charges.

These people are stupid, asinine, do not understand the Bible and should be put in prison. And I have two master's degrees in Theology.

that's as useful as a masters degree in ceramics...
before you ask, I too have a masters in technical theatre and film and minored in electrical engineering.
the point is, so the fuck what...