CDZ Islamification of The West

[theDoctorisIn]

Well...I'm not understanding it. In both incidences, I see people (Christians and Muslims) publically celebrating their faith in a peaceful manner in a country where freedom of religion and tolerance are important. It's dishonest to compare it to the Muslim-majority countries like Saudi Arabia, where there is no freedom of religion or tolerance.

I'd dread someone to do an experiment in a Western nation of:

If someone turned up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticised HIM....

That happens all the time. It's usually far-right wing groups trying to instigate violence. It rarely works.

It doesn't happen all the time, are you saying that on a frequent basis in Western nations, people turn up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticise him?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Britain First does it a lot in the UK. In the US, it's usually weird religious groups that do it.

What exactly IS "Far Right" nowadays? Often now anyone who opposes the increasingly Dictatorial EU Commission and the crazed Open The Floodgates to seemingly half of the Middle East to come pouring into the European Continent are termed "Far Right"

It's a term that's almost becoming meaningless....rather a number of so-called "Far Right" political parties, were they in America they'd just be on the Right of the Republican Party.

No, the fact that you're looking at it from the inside doesn't make it a meaningless term. For the sake of this discussion, when I say "far right", I'm referring to the Nationalist organizations in Europe that focus on anti-Islamic and anti-immigrant rhetoric (and occasionally anti-semetic rhetoric too).

BNP, Britain First, NF, Svoboda, Tricolour Flame and Jobbik are examples of what I'm talking about.

Seems like these groups would fade away quickly if it were not for some shred of truth in what is happening in Europe.

That's like saying the Nazis would have faded away if the Jews hadn't really deserved it.

As long as their are angry people, some of them will find a way to blame it on some other group, and use it to justify their hatred.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Well for a start it's all well ordered and there's obviously not going to be all that shouting and the loud hailer stuff praising Allah.

However....as I mentioned in my OP, if someone would have turned up and criticised Jesus Christ, they probably wouldn't have been descended upon in savage fashion and threatened.

If someone turned up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticised HIM, well we know what their reaction would be don't we? Batshit crazy off the scale.

Well...I'm not understanding it. In both incidences, I see people (Christians and Muslims) publically celebrating their faith in a peaceful manner in a country where freedom of religion and tolerance are important. It's dishonest to compare it to the Muslim-majority countries like Saudi Arabia, where there is no freedom of religion or tolerance.

I'd dread someone to do an experiment in a Western nation of:

If someone turned up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticised HIM....

That happens all the time. It's usually far-right wing groups trying to instigate violence. It rarely works.

It doesn't happen all the time, are you saying that on a frequent basis in Western nations, people turn up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticise him?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Britain First does it a lot in the UK. In the US, it's usually weird religious groups that do it.

What exactly IS "Far Right" nowadays? Often now anyone who opposes the increasingly Dictatorial EU Commission and the crazed Open The Floodgates to seemingly half of the Middle East to come pouring into the European Continent are termed "Far Right"

It's a term that's almost becoming meaningless....rather a number of so-called "Far Right" political parties, were they in America they'd just be on the Right of the Republican Party.

No, the fact that you're looking at it from the inside doesn't make it a meaningless term. For the sake of this discussion, when I say "far right", I'm referring to the Nationalist organizations in Europe that focus on anti-Islamic and anti-immigrant rhetoric (and occasionally anti-semetic rhetoric too).

BNP, Britain First, NF, Svoboda, Tricolour Flame and Jobbik are examples of what I'm talking about.

Okay I just wanted to know what you were meaning regarding what constitutes "Far Right"....with the exception of the NF in France and Jobbik in Hungary, those others you mention are incredibly Fringe and are generally shunned by established Right-Wing political parties.

Someone can be anti-Immigration and not be "Far Right", actually many mainstream Conservative political parties and some Left of Centre parties eg. in the Czech Republic are now increasingly anti-Immigration.

 

[saveliberty]

Oh, and let's consider religion in Europe for a moment shall we?

Just 51 percent of citizens in the EU's 27 nations said they believed in God, when questioned for a 2010 survey.

In Sweden, Estonia and the Czech Republic that number fell below 20 percent — although more said they believed in the existence of "some form of spirit or life force." Forty percent of the French declared they believed in neither god nor spirt, along with 30 percent of the Dutch, 27 percent of Germans and a quarter of the British.


Religion in Europe, also in crisis

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Well...I'm not understanding it. In both incidences, I see people (Christians and Muslims) publically celebrating their faith in a peaceful manner in a country where freedom of religion and tolerance are important. It's dishonest to compare it to the Muslim-majority countries like Saudi Arabia, where there is no freedom of religion or tolerance.

I'd dread someone to do an experiment in a Western nation of:

If someone turned up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticised HIM....

That happens all the time. It's usually far-right wing groups trying to instigate violence. It rarely works.

It doesn't happen all the time, are you saying that on a frequent basis in Western nations, people turn up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticise him?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Britain First does it a lot in the UK. In the US, it's usually weird religious groups that do it.

What exactly IS "Far Right" nowadays? Often now anyone who opposes the increasingly Dictatorial EU Commission and the crazed Open The Floodgates to seemingly half of the Middle East to come pouring into the European Continent are termed "Far Right"

It's a term that's almost becoming meaningless....rather a number of so-called "Far Right" political parties, were they in America they'd just be on the Right of the Republican Party.

No, the fact that you're looking at it from the inside doesn't make it a meaningless term. For the sake of this discussion, when I say "far right", I'm referring to the Nationalist organizations in Europe that focus on anti-Islamic and anti-immigrant rhetoric (and occasionally anti-semetic rhetoric too).

BNP, Britain First, NF, Svoboda, Tricolour Flame and Jobbik are examples of what I'm talking about.

Okay I just wanted to know what you were meaning regarding what constitutes "Far Right"....with the exception of the NF in France and Jobbik in Hungary, those others you mention are incredibly Fringe and are generally shunned by established Right-Wing political parties.

Someone can be anti-Immigration and not be "Far Right", actually many mainstream Conservative political parties and some Left of Centre parties eg. in the Czech Republic are now increasingly anti-Immigration.

I did not say that everyone who is "anti-immigration" is "far right".

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I'd dread someone to do an experiment in a Western nation of:

If someone turned up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticised HIM....

That happens all the time. It's usually far-right wing groups trying to instigate violence. It rarely works.

It doesn't happen all the time, are you saying that on a frequent basis in Western nations, people turn up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticise him?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Britain First does it a lot in the UK. In the US, it's usually weird religious groups that do it.

What exactly IS "Far Right" nowadays? Often now anyone who opposes the increasingly Dictatorial EU Commission and the crazed Open The Floodgates to seemingly half of the Middle East to come pouring into the European Continent are termed "Far Right"

It's a term that's almost becoming meaningless....rather a number of so-called "Far Right" political parties, were they in America they'd just be on the Right of the Republican Party.

No, the fact that you're looking at it from the inside doesn't make it a meaningless term. For the sake of this discussion, when I say "far right", I'm referring to the Nationalist organizations in Europe that focus on anti-Islamic and anti-immigrant rhetoric (and occasionally anti-semetic rhetoric too).

BNP, Britain First, NF, Svoboda, Tricolour Flame and Jobbik are examples of what I'm talking about.

Seems like these groups would fade away quickly if it were not for some shred of truth in what is happening in Europe.

That's like saying the Nazis would have faded away if the Jews hadn't really deserved it.

As long as their are angry people, some of them will find a way to blame it on some other group, and use it to justify their hatred.

People in America perhaps don't understand fully how many European nations and peoples are alarmed at being Dictated to by the EU Commission on what they can and cannot do with their own borders....a nations leader's FIRST duty to the people is to make sure the nation is safe and the people are safe, you cannot allow your borders to remain wide open letting TONS of angry hordes to charge in and then just DEMAND to stay and be given free stuff at your taxpayers expense.

That's guaranteed to make people pretty angry.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I'd dread someone to do an experiment in a Western nation of:

If someone turned up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticised HIM....

That happens all the time. It's usually far-right wing groups trying to instigate violence. It rarely works.

It doesn't happen all the time, are you saying that on a frequent basis in Western nations, people turn up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticise him?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Britain First does it a lot in the UK. In the US, it's usually weird religious groups that do it.

What exactly IS "Far Right" nowadays? Often now anyone who opposes the increasingly Dictatorial EU Commission and the crazed Open The Floodgates to seemingly half of the Middle East to come pouring into the European Continent are termed "Far Right"

It's a term that's almost becoming meaningless....rather a number of so-called "Far Right" political parties, were they in America they'd just be on the Right of the Republican Party.

No, the fact that you're looking at it from the inside doesn't make it a meaningless term. For the sake of this discussion, when I say "far right", I'm referring to the Nationalist organizations in Europe that focus on anti-Islamic and anti-immigrant rhetoric (and occasionally anti-semetic rhetoric too).

BNP, Britain First, NF, Svoboda, Tricolour Flame and Jobbik are examples of what I'm talking about.

Okay I just wanted to know what you were meaning regarding what constitutes "Far Right"....with the exception of the NF in France and Jobbik in Hungary, those others you mention are incredibly Fringe and are generally shunned by established Right-Wing political parties.

Someone can be anti-Immigration and not be "Far Right", actually many mainstream Conservative political parties and some Left of Centre parties eg. in the Czech Republic are now increasingly anti-Immigration.

I did not say that everyone who is "anti-immigration" is "far right".

Okay that's good, sorry if I misinterpreted.

 

[saveliberty]

That's like saying the Nazis would have faded away if the Jews hadn't really deserved it.

As long as their are angry people, some of them will find a way to blame it on some other group, and use it to justify their hatred.

No it is not even a close similie. Did the Jews form terror groups against the Nazis? Did Nazis represent a free European society?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

That's like saying the Nazis would have faded away if the Jews hadn't really deserved it.

As long as their are angry people, some of them will find a way to blame it on some other group, and use it to justify their hatred.

No it is not even a close similie. Did the Jews form terror groups against the Nazis? Did Nazis represent a free European society?

Actually, I think it's a pretty good similie.

According to the Nazis, the Jews were "waging war" on them already, and they were just defending themselves.
According to the Nazis, they most certainly did represent a "free European society".

 

[saveliberty]

Actually, I think it's a pretty good similie.

According to the Nazis, the Jews were "waging war" on them already, and they were just defending themselves.
According to the Nazis, they most certainly did represent a "free European society".

..and was that factual? I think facts can support Muslims have committed terrorist acts in Europe

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Actually, I think it's a pretty good similie.

According to the Nazis, the Jews were "waging war" on them already, and they were just defending themselves.
According to the Nazis, they most certainly did represent a "free European society".

..and was that factual? I think facts can support Muslims have committed terrorist acts in Europe

It is "factual" that individual Muslims have committed terrorist acts in Europe.
It is also "factual" that individual Jews controlled much of Europe's banking system, to the detriment of the average German citizen.

It is no more "factual" that all Muslims bear responsibility for terrorists than it is that all Jews bear responsibility for the economic actions of a few.

 

[saveliberty]

It is "factual" that individual Muslims have committed terrorist acts in Europe.
It is also "factual" that individual Jews controlled much of Europe's banking system, to the detriment of the average German citizen.

It is no more "factual" that all Muslims bear responsibility for terrorists than it is that all Jews bear responsibility for the economic actions of a few.

Yes, I am sure German reparations post WWI had nothing to do with inflation for Germany.

Jews run a lot of parades celebrating Jewish Holidays in Germany then?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It is "factual" that individual Muslims have committed terrorist acts in Europe.
It is also "factual" that individual Jews controlled much of Europe's banking system, to the detriment of the average German citizen.

It is no more "factual" that all Muslims bear responsibility for terrorists than it is that all Jews bear responsibility for the economic actions of a few.

Yes, I am sure German reparations post WWI had nothing to do with inflation for Germany.

Jews run a lot of parades celebrating Jewish Holidays in Germany then?

I'm sure there are some. There's a significant if small Jewish population in Germany today, around a quarter million people.

 

[Arianrhod]

This is an image from Good Friday, we don't have these sort of scenes frequently....

Only once a year, on Good Friday, correct?

AFAIK, Muhammad's birthday is only once a year as well.

 

[Arianrhod]

Is any monotheistic tradition tolerant?

Only when it is domesticated by secularists.

As in not lopping heads off? Yes.

I've never understood this particular obsession with lopping off heads...as if it's somehow more barbaric than killing a man by frying him with electricity, or hanging him by a rope, or stabbing him. Either way - prior to the secular concept of human rights, religions were not tolerant - it was not considered a virtue.

Nice try at rationalization.

Today it is happening in the name of Allah.

Not at all.

The point stands. Prior to domestication, seperating religion from government - there was little tolerance in either the Christian dominated world or the Islamic dominated world.

But don't you find it ironic that the first thing that comes out of people's mouths when it comes to Muslims is....but but they lop peoples heads off!...meanwhile their own legislatures are discussing bringing back the electric chair and they don't seem to have a problem with that.

The OP is discussing today, I am discussing today.

Today it is happening in the name of Allah.

In the name of terrorists claiming to speak for Allah. Why are you validating terrorists?

 

[Arianrhod]

What is the difference between that and the birthday march in your OP?

The absence of fake blood and lurid scenes of torture.

 

[Alex.]

As in not lopping heads off? Yes.

I've never understood this particular obsession with lopping off heads...as if it's somehow more barbaric than killing a man by frying him with electricity, or hanging him by a rope, or stabbing him. Either way - prior to the secular concept of human rights, religions were not tolerant - it was not considered a virtue.

Nice try at rationalization.

Today it is happening in the name of Allah.

Not at all.

The point stands. Prior to domestication, seperating religion from government - there was little tolerance in either the Christian dominated world or the Islamic dominated world.

But don't you find it ironic that the first thing that comes out of people's mouths when it comes to Muslims is....but but they lop peoples heads off!...meanwhile their own legislatures are discussing bringing back the electric chair and they don't seem to have a problem with that.

The OP is discussing today, I am discussing today.

Today it is happening in the name of Allah.

In the name of terrorists claiming to speak for Allah. Why are you validating terrorists?

Not

 

[pillars]

And the difference is we let people become citizens and have birth right citizenship thus creating loyal Americans. Much of Europe lets their immigrants become stateless peoples.

Maybe America's culture is just superior to European culture.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

And the difference is we let people become citizens and have birth right citizenship thus creating loyal Americans. Much of Europe lets their immigrants become stateless peoples.

Maybe America's culture is just superior to European culture.

I think it's more accurate to say that America doesn't have just one "culture". We are a state without a real nation. There is no "American" ethnic group.

"America" is the answer to all those troll threads that ask "When has multiculturalism worked?".

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Well...I'm not understanding it. In both incidences, I see people (Christians and Muslims) publically celebrating their faith in a peaceful manner in a country where freedom of religion and tolerance are important. It's dishonest to compare it to the Muslim-majority countries like Saudi Arabia, where there is no freedom of religion or tolerance.

I'd dread someone to do an experiment in a Western nation of:

If someone turned up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticised HIM....

That happens all the time. It's usually far-right wing groups trying to instigate violence. It rarely works.

It doesn't happen all the time, are you saying that on a frequent basis in Western nations, people turn up in the middle of a ton of Muslims praising the Prophet Mohammed and criticise him?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Britain First does it a lot in the UK. In the US, it's usually weird religious groups that do it.

What exactly IS "Far Right" nowadays? Often now anyone who opposes the increasingly Dictatorial EU Commission and the crazed Open The Floodgates to seemingly half of the Middle East to come pouring into the European Continent are termed "Far Right"

It's a term that's almost becoming meaningless....rather a number of so-called "Far Right" political parties, were they in America they'd just be on the Right of the Republican Party.

No, the fact that you're looking at it from the inside doesn't make it a meaningless term. For the sake of this discussion, when I say "far right", I'm referring to the Nationalist organizations in Europe that focus on anti-Islamic and anti-immigrant rhetoric (and occasionally anti-semetic rhetoric too).

BNP, Britain First, NF, Svoboda, Tricolour Flame and Jobbik are examples of what I'm talking about.

Seems like these groups would fade away quickly if it were not for some shred of truth in what is happening in Europe.

No, they would just move on to another group. Blacks,Gays ,Jews any minority really. Some people have to have someone to hate,someone to blame.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Just got up and read through this thread again. It is clear that there is a huge amount of fear and ignorance around.
Myself, I cant understand why these people would want to leave their homes and move to Europe.