CDZ Islamification of The West

[Mac1958]

On the whole, Muslims in the US seem to be much better integrated than they are in many European countries. The reasons are debatable, and may not be appropriate to discuss here, but I think it makes it difficult for many of the US posters to relate to the issues we in Europe battle with daily.
Anyway, regardless of the (anecdotal) experience of European posters here, there are countless polls that indicate that Muslims in Europe not only do not integrate well, but that they also hold views that are anti west, anti democracy, pro Islamist, and even pro terrorism - with a tendency to not report to the authorities terrorist plots that they know of.
There is a reason The UK was once labelled an exporter of Islamic terrorism, for example. Anyway, IMHO, there really seems little point in a European discussing issues related to Islam in Europe on this board. That's not to say there aren't Americans who understand these issues, there are, it's just clear that the vast majority do not understand and have no direct experience, and therefore have a penchant for assuming racism, bigotry etc are the impetus for the discussions in the first place.
In my time here, I've realised to discuss this issue as it pertains to Europe is basically an exercise in futility, even here in the CDZ, because there are too many posters who cannot get beyond their own assumptions even though they have little or no experience of how these issues express themselves in Europe first hand. So, great OP, hopeless venue, IMHO.

Of course you're absolutely correct, the Americans cannot understand, because they've not experienced it first hand, nor have they witnessed the sort of scenes we've had to witness.

For instance, they haven't experienced the so-called "Migrant Crisis", hundreds of thousands of Muslims, mainly young men of military age, shouting and being aggressive charging across our borders in chaotic and angry fashion DEMANDING to stay in Europa OR ELSE and DEMANDING to give them free stuff.

I think if Americans would have experienced and witnessed the outrageous scenes that our Continent has had to witness, then many Americans perhaps would at least pause for thought.

For whatever reason, the Regressive Left has chosen to make Islam the PC-protected religion. Evidently a part of that is convincing themselves that there is nothing wrong with what you're seeing. It might be that they feel the West deserves what is happening.

Yet they'll also be quick to attack another pretty well-known religion at the drop of a hat.

They've made their choice, it is what it is.
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Is it Islam that is behind the spurious restrictions on women's health clinics throughout red states?
Is it Islam that is behind the ridiculous discrimination laws being passed in Mississippi and NC?
Is it Islam that's been fighting marriage equality for decades?
Was Islam the religion of choice for most Slavers in the U.S.?
Was it Islam that was behind the philosophy associated with segregation and jim crow laws?
Is it Allah we're being asked to pray to in schools by the right wing element in the U.S.?
Is it Allah we're being asked to praise on our money, in our pledge, and in our court oaths?
Is it transcriptions from the Quran that justices are trying to put on display in our courthouses?

Yeah, didn't think so.

I find the intolerance and hatred of Muslims in Pakistan/Saudi Arabia/Afghanistan to be deplorable, but based on the scripture you supposedly follow, we're supposed to take the plank out of our own eye first....

I'd like to continue our conversation, but I'm being threatened.
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Seemed clear to me you weren't willing to converse.

I always am.

Well, when I'm "allowed" to.
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[Ravi]

And the difference is we let people become citizens and have birth right citizenship thus creating loyal Americans. Much of Europe lets their immigrants become stateless peoples.

Maybe America's culture is just superior to European culture.

Bingo.

 

[Decus]

And the difference is we let people become citizens and have birth right citizenship thus creating loyal Americans. Much of Europe lets their immigrants become stateless peoples.

Maybe America's culture is just superior to European culture.

Bingo.

While you're on a roll you might as well add that American culture is also superior to African and Asian cultures as these two regions of the world share many of the same traits you criticize Europe for.

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[pillars]

Well, American culture is more tolerant and open than most other cultures.

 

[Drummond]

And the difference is we let people become citizens and have birth right citizenship thus creating loyal Americans. Much of Europe lets their immigrants become stateless peoples.

Maybe America's culture is just superior to European culture.

I think it's more accurate to say that America doesn't have just one "culture". We are a state without a real nation. There is no "American" ethnic group.

"America" is the answer to all those troll threads that ask "When has multiculturalism worked?".

America DOES stand for something, it DOES have its culture. Consider the US Constitution. Would you say that it's meaningless ? That it says nothing for the shape American society is intended to be ? However much you argue the 'multiculturalism' route, nonetheless, immigrants are expected to be loyal to America, and all she stands for. It's the difference between integration and just foisting a 'minority' culture on the host country and expecting that country to bend to it.

Europe is different. What equivalent exists there to the US Constitution ? Consequently, Lefties there have a clear run to argue, and insist upon, straight and never-ending deference to those minorities.

 

[Drummond]

Open your doors, you racist, islamophobic bastards!!!

There have probably been more convictions for New Years Eve offence in Irving,Texas than there have been in Cologne.

I don't know about Irving,Texas. But are you saying that that two wrongs suddenly make a 'right' ?

The Cologne example is NOT something to excuse !!! Far from it ... it's something to learn from, something informative about the true nature of those who saw fit to invade Europe.

Or, Tommy, would you excuse those 'immigrants' ANYTHING they did .. ?

 

[Correll]

"Islamification" is a bugaboo of weak minds. It's a boogeyman to stoke jingoistic fears.

Why should anyone be upset that 5,000 Muslims had a march in London?

Because nearly all higher mammals have a sense of territory, an instinct that tells them that when their territory is threatened by others that it is a danger?

Other than the modern liberal though.

 

[Drummond]

Just got up and read through this thread again. It is clear that there is a huge amount of fear and ignorance around.
Myself, I cant understand why these people would want to leave their homes and move to Europe.

View attachment 75268

You have a point. Tommy. After all .. given the choice between seeing Wales attacked and bombed, wouldn't you want to stay and defend your country, FIGHT for your home, and for a future for yourself in your own land .. ?

 

[Correll]

One cannot expect ‘clean debate’ when the thread premise fails as a loaded question fallacy, straw man fallacy, and hasty generalization fallacy.

Tell that to the girls of Rotherham, and Derby, and Oxford, and Bristol, and Telford, and Banbury, and Aylesbury, and Keighley and Peterborough.


I'm sure they would all be absolutely FASCINATED, to have you explain why any question about Islamification is nothing but a Logical Fallacy not worthy of any real response.

Oh, and I almost forgot, be sure to include their fathers and mothers in that explanation.

I'm sure a lot of those stupid working class whites have developed stupid concerns about islamification, FOR NO GOOD REASON.

 

[Drummond]

It isn't that is it Islam, who cares about the belief system itself, it is Islam's intolerance and rejection for any believe system or culture that is not Islam, no matter how welcoming to the Islamic Culture, belief system and tradition.

Islam seeks domination, through whatever means will work. THAT is the point. Certainly in my country, the Left have been facilitators of Muslim ambition ... whether by being mere naive dupes, or knowingly so .. I'm still uncertain.

 

[Mac1958]

One cannot expect ‘clean debate’ when the thread premise fails as a loaded question fallacy, straw man fallacy, and hasty generalization fallacy.

Tell that to the girls of Rotherham, and Derby, and Oxford, and Bristol, and Telford, and Banbury, and Aylesbury, and Keighley and Peterborough.

I'm sure they would all be absolutely FASCINATED, to have you explain why any question about Islamification is nothing but a Logical Fallacy not worthy of any real response.

Oh, and I almost forgot, be sure to include their fathers and mothers in that explanation.

I'm sure a lot of those stupid working class whites have developed stupid concerns about islamification, FOR NO GOOD REASON.

Those who are going to spin and deflect for you-know-who, and you know who they are, aren't worried about that stuff.

I have to watch my words, a left wing you-know-what is watching my posts very carefully.
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[Iceweasel]

It isn't that is it Islam, who cares about the belief system itself, it is Islam's intolerance and rejection for any believe system or culture that is not Islam, no matter how welcoming to the Islamic Culture, belief system and tradition.

Islam seeks domination, through whatever means will work. THAT is the point. Certainly in my country, the Left have been facilitators of Muslim ambition ... whether by being mere naive dupes, or knowingly so .. I'm still uncertain.

I'll go with dupes for the answer. Liberalism isn't based on reason, but emotion. It feels good to be understanding of other cultures. The fact that the culture isn't compatible with yours doesn't seem to enter into the equation.

The US has been a melting pot all along, but like the slogan says "e pluribus unum" out of many, one, assimilation into the culture has always been the norm. Hanging onto a heritage or identity is fine but you are expected to adopt out guiding principles outlined in the Constitution when you move here.

 

[Drummond]

I might be labouring a point here.

However the OP specifically referred to the "Islamification of the West".

That isnt happening. People are living together quite nicely and only the extremists on either side are trying to rock the boat.

These Muslims were living a few miles away from the Guys featured in the OP. Good neighbours in my opinion.

Cumbria floods: Preston Muslim volunteers deliver aid and help clear up effort

This is a joke, Tommy, surely !!

If you truly are from my part of the world, you'll be familiar, for example, with THIS story ....

Head teachers raise 'serious concerns' over Islamic school take-over

Schools across Britain are likely to have been targeted in an alleged Islamist plot to take over classrooms, head teachers have warned.

The National Association of Head Teachers said it had found “concerted efforts” to infiltrate at least six schools in Birmingham.
But the union also said that the scandal had “connections” to other large cities.

The Telegraph understands that there are growing concerns about the possible infiltration of schools in Bradford, Manchester and parts of east London.

The acknowledgement from the professional body follows a series of exposés by The Telegraph which disclosed how a “Trojan Horse” plot in Birmingham had put schools under pressure illegally to segregate classrooms and change teaching to reflect radical Islamic beliefs.

Tell me that all of that turned out to be 'fiction'. Also tell me that there aren't Sharia Courts set up in various parts of the UK (including one major centre in Leytonstone, east London, I believe ..). Also tell me that a former Archbishop of Canterbury didn't argue for the acceptance of limited Sharia Law in the UK .... because of the inroads Muslims had made in our culture !!

Oh, and the 7/7 London attack DID happen ... led by a teacher who was trusted in his community, supposedly a 'well integrated' Muslim ...

 

[Drummond]

One for Tommy to 'digest' and - perhaps ? - to try and sanitise ... or explain away, anyway ....

Revealed: Britain's 85 sharia courts as Islamic justice spreads in UK

At least 85 Islamic sharia courts are operating in Britain, a study claimed yesterday.

The astonishing figure is 17 times higher than previously accepted.

The tribunals, working mainly from mosques, settle financial and family disputes according to religious principles. They lay down judgments which can be given full legal status if approved in national law courts.

However, they operate behind doors that are closed to independent observers and their decisions are likely to be unfair to women and backed by intimidation, a report by independent think-tank Civitas said.

Commentators on the influence of sharia law often count only the five courts in London, Manchester, Bradford, Birmingham and Nuneaton that are run by the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal, a body whose rulings are enforced through the state courts under the 1996 Arbitration Act.

But the study by academic and Islamic specialist Denis MacEoin estimates there are at least 85 working tribunals.

The spread of sharia law has become increasingly controversial since its role was backed last year by Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams and Lord Phillips, the Lord Chief Justice who stepped down last October.

Dr Williams said a recognised role for sharia law seemed 'unavoidable' and Lord Phillips said there was no reason why decisions made on sharia principles should not be recognised by the national courts.

But the Civitas report said the principles on which sharia courts work are indicated by the fatwas - religious decrees - set out on websites run by British mosques.

Islam, here in the UK, isn't adhered to in any manner that speaks of 'integration'. QUITE THE REVERSE ... the UK is forever expected to bend to ITS demands. And, Tommy, being 'from my part of the world', I fail to see how you can't be fully aware of that truth.

 

[Geaux4it]

American culture has been under attack from the left, with a major push over the last 8 years. America was at her best when the European migration happened. It was a different reason all together why they came to America than the multi-cultural push of today. Migrants came to America to earn their way. Today they come to join the ranks of the entitled.

Take a look at cities where immigrants from Somalia reside. They are knee deep in crime and despair

Sorry, America will always be Baseball, Apple Pie and Chevy....

The buck stops here

-Geaux

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Yes and I also commented this:

"I'm fully aware that not ALL Muslims are Radical Muslims, to think such a thing would be ridiculous"

I saw. But that disclaimer doesn't negate the rest of your posts.

Lucy Hamilton has nothing to "negate" at all. I stand by everything she posted. If you have a problem with that? Well, here I am....so bring it on.

It's okay, you're taking advantage because you know you on the L have the numbers in the thread at the moment, so you're all getting in your best shots, because you know that we on the R will have the numbers soon again and then your best shots will be hit out of the ballpark....

Note: The use of L and R so as not to offend anyone by mentioning political factions or something

Thats a really screwed up attitude to debate. Its not a popularity contest.

Provide an intellectual argument, for why The West needs to be inundated with MILLIONS more Muslims, you're so fond of Muslims you should be able to easily give an intellectual argument why The West needs MILLIONS more of them.

The West has survived for many multiple Centuries WITHOUT MILLIONS of Muslims....so what is it, you think The West will collapse if it doesn't have MILLIONS more Muslims foisted upon it?

So give us an intellectual argument for The West needing MILLIONS more Muslims.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Just got up and read through this thread again. It is clear that there is a huge amount of fear and ignorance around.
Myself, I cant understand why these people would want to leave their homes and move to Europe.

View attachment 75268

The majority that are coming to European nations aren't REFUGEES, they're Economic Migrants who want free stuff at OUR various nations taxpayers expense, only a small percentage are actual refugees.

You again cherry pick a picture....what about the one's saying they're "refugees" from Pakistan and Egypt....or are you saying they're "fleeing" Syria also?

 

[Geaux4it]

What could go wrong?

-Geaux
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MUSLIM DOMINATED DETROIT IS AMERICA’S MOST VIOLENT, CRIME-FILLED CITY

DETROIT (WWJ) – The men and women of the Detroit Police Department believe the city is too dangerous to enter, and they want citizens to know it. Detroit Police Officer Association (DPOA) Attorney Donato Iorio said officers are holding the “Enter At Your Own Risk” rally at 3:30 p.m. Saturday in front of Comerica Park to remind the public that the officers are overworked, understaffed, and at times, fearful for their lives.

Muslim Dominated Detroit Is America’s Most Violent, Crime-filled City

 

[TNHarley]

When people realise that folks are just folks the world will be a happier place.
The "haters" in the main are just scared of the changes going on in their world. Those who would exploit those fears are the real problem.

Its awfully quaint you say that in a thread about muslims

 

[Mac1958]

When people realise that folks are just folks the world will be a happier place.
The "haters" in the main are just scared of the changes going on in their world. Those who would exploit those fears are the real problem.

Its awfully quaint you say that in a thread about muslims

Yep. And from the end of the spectrum that attacks Christianity with great passion.

Hey, they've made their choice.
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