Isn't this racist? DHS to begin launching deportation raids beginning in January

[Unkotare]

...

They inserted the word " knowingly " ... as in " the employer must be shown to have knowingly hired the illegal applicant ". It is almost impossible to prove whether or not the employer knew or suspected that the documents the invading alien produces are fake or not.

And, to be fair, you can buy very convincing fake identities complete with Social Security number and drivers license ( all forged ) for less than $500 in most cities......

And so? You want the employer liable if someone pulls one over on him or her? What do you think that's going to do for the economy? No common sense common ground to distinguish between an employer just exploiting illegals and an employer who got scammed by a crafty individual or a slick fraud ring?

 

[Arizona Willie]

...

They inserted the word " knowingly " ... as in " the employer must be shown to have knowingly hired the illegal applicant ". It is almost impossible to prove whether or not the employer knew or suspected that the documents the invading alien produces are fake or not.

And, to be fair, you can buy very convincing fake identities complete with Social Security number and drivers license ( all forged ) for less than $500 in most cities......

And so? You want the employer liable if someone pulls one over on him or her? What do you think that's going to do for the economy? No common sense common ground to distinguish between an employer just exploiting illegals and an employer who got scammed by a crafty individual or a slick fraud ring?

============

When the " employee " hands the employer documents that say he was born in St. Louis and his name if Fred Wilson but he can't speak English THAT should be a very big sign.

Most employers know perfectly well that they are hiring illegals.

Many businesses have " recruiters " in Mexico and South American countries that recruit skilled employees and give them a special business card to give to HR when they get to the workplace.

Yet those same businessmen who own the companies want to hide behind the word " knowingly " and pretend they didn't know.

Employers should be required to check much more deeply than just accepting the employees word and documents that may or may not be falsified.

When the prospective employee can't speak English it's a big warning flag.

Many help wanted ads in the papers these days specify " must be bilingual " because they have employees who can't speak English. They have to hire bi-lingual people for supervisory positions because the employees speak no English at all.

Yet ICE doesn't bother to check out companies that post ads requiring candidates to be bi-lingual.

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

 

[Unkotare]

...

They inserted the word " knowingly " ... as in " the employer must be shown to have knowingly hired the illegal applicant ". It is almost impossible to prove whether or not the employer knew or suspected that the documents the invading alien produces are fake or not.

And, to be fair, you can buy very convincing fake identities complete with Social Security number and drivers license ( all forged ) for less than $500 in most cities......

And so? You want the employer liable if someone pulls one over on him or her? What do you think that's going to do for the economy? No common sense common ground to distinguish between an employer just exploiting illegals and an employer who got scammed by a crafty individual or a slick fraud ring?

============

When the " employee " hands the employer documents that say he was born in St. Louis and his name if Fred Wilson but he can't speak English THAT should be a very big sign......

Perhaps. Perhaps that circumstance would merit investigation.

 

[Unkotare]

.....

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

There is nothing illegal about not speaking English as a first language.

 

[Unkotare]

....

Yet ICE doesn't bother to check out companies that post ads requiring candidates to be bi-lingual.......

There is absolutely nothing illegal about looking for or hiring bilingual people to fill positions in any given company. Hiring illegals is certainly NOT the only reason a company might be looking for someone with such skills.

 

[Care4all]

...

They inserted the word " knowingly " ... as in " the employer must be shown to have knowingly hired the illegal applicant ". It is almost impossible to prove whether or not the employer knew or suspected that the documents the invading alien produces are fake or not.

And, to be fair, you can buy very convincing fake identities complete with Social Security number and drivers license ( all forged ) for less than $500 in most cities......

And so? You want the employer liable if someone pulls one over on him or her? What do you think that's going to do for the economy? No common sense common ground to distinguish between an employer just exploiting illegals and an employer who got scammed by a crafty individual or a slick fraud ring?

============

When the " employee " hands the employer documents that say he was born in St. Louis and his name if Fred Wilson but he can't speak English THAT should be a very big sign.

Most employers know perfectly well that they are hiring illegals.

Many businesses have " recruiters " in Mexico and South American countries that recruit skilled employees and give them a special business card to give to HR when they get to the workplace.

Yet those same businessmen who own the companies want to hide behind the word " knowingly " and pretend they didn't know.

Employers should be required to check much more deeply than just accepting the employees word and documents that may or may not be falsified.

When the prospective employee can't speak English it's a big warning flag.

Many help wanted ads in the papers these days specify " must be bilingual " because they have employees who can't speak English. They have to hire bi-lingual people for supervisory positions because the employees speak no English at all.

Yet ICE doesn't bother to check out companies that post ads requiring candidates to be bi-lingual.

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

When my Italian grandparents emigrated here and applied for a Visa, through the request and sponsorship of my parents, when they arrived they could not speak a word of English, only Italian....well...my grandfather was better understanding English than my grandmother only because he was in business where he came from, ran a bar and restaurant that was next to an overseas USAF Base so he learned a little English, enough to get by in understanding his clientele... My father was USAF and my mother Italian, (my mother was educated and spoke and wrote 5 languages fluently, English being one)

Well, after they arrived here, they bought a home in Brooklyn in an Italian neighborhood and waited the 5 years before they could apply for citizenship. My grandparents were in their late 50's and 60's when they got here and 5 years later my grandpa was doing good with speaking English, but my grandmother was really having a hard time... she had a job and worked until she was 75 in a factory, but never learned English because her boss spoke Italian and because she was an old dog who could not be taught new tricks.

She practiced and practiced and practiced her answers to the questions she was given ahead of time for her citizenship test, but still fumbled through it.... they passed her and my grand dad anyway, and gave them US citizenship....even though she could not speak English.

 

[Arizona Willie]

.....

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

There is nothing illegal about not speaking English as a first language.

=====
That's very true ... no one said not speaking English was illegal.

But the Citizenship Test very clearly requires applicants to be able to demonstrate basic comprehension of English and the ability to speak and write to minimal levels.

There are people who take the test for applicants and make a living doing that. People who can't speak English hire them to take the exam for them.

It's a crime, of course, but everyone just smiles and turns their head. It would mean their job if they resisted and required them to take the test personally as the law requires because it is " politically correct " to ignore their illegal status.

I wouldn't be surprised but what the testing people are being paid off too.

Very likely are. An Audit of their finances would probably be very interesting.

I have heard there are areas of Los Angeles where you can be born and live your entire life and never speak a word of English ( and be legal citizens too ) because Spanish is the prevalent language in that area. But that is an unusual case and only applies to a limited area.

 

[Arizona Willie]

....

Yet ICE doesn't bother to check out companies that post ads requiring candidates to be bi-lingual.......

There is absolutely nothing illegal about looking for or hiring bilingual people to fill positions in any given company. Hiring illegals is certainly NOT the only reason a company might be looking for someone with such skills.

=========
Once again, I never said it was illegal for employers to advertise for " bi-lingual ".

But companies that don't do business in other countries usually have little to no need for an interpreter.

Why should a foreman in a Tyson Chicken plant need to be bi-lingual? A foreman on a roofing crew?
Most of these companies are dealing in physical labor and the reason they need a bi-lingual person on staff is because the people working for them don't speak English ( either < any > English or enough to be certain they understand you at all times ).

Of course there are positions where companies do business with foreign countries and they have need for people able to write letters and handle phone calls in the appropriate language.

People on assembly lines have little need to be able to speak two languages.

Of course you know that and are just looking for loopholes trying to justify yourself in any way you can.

 

[Arizona Willie]

...

They inserted the word " knowingly " ... as in " the employer must be shown to have knowingly hired the illegal applicant ". It is almost impossible to prove whether or not the employer knew or suspected that the documents the invading alien produces are fake or not.

And, to be fair, you can buy very convincing fake identities complete with Social Security number and drivers license ( all forged ) for less than $500 in most cities......

And so? You want the employer liable if someone pulls one over on him or her? What do you think that's going to do for the economy? No common sense common ground to distinguish between an employer just exploiting illegals and an employer who got scammed by a crafty individual or a slick fraud ring?

============

When the " employee " hands the employer documents that say he was born in St. Louis and his name if Fred Wilson but he can't speak English THAT should be a very big sign.

Most employers know perfectly well that they are hiring illegals.

Many businesses have " recruiters " in Mexico and South American countries that recruit skilled employees and give them a special business card to give to HR when they get to the workplace.

Yet those same businessmen who own the companies want to hide behind the word " knowingly " and pretend they didn't know.

Employers should be required to check much more deeply than just accepting the employees word and documents that may or may not be falsified.

When the prospective employee can't speak English it's a big warning flag.

Many help wanted ads in the papers these days specify " must be bilingual " because they have employees who can't speak English. They have to hire bi-lingual people for supervisory positions because the employees speak no English at all.

Yet ICE doesn't bother to check out companies that post ads requiring candidates to be bi-lingual.

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

When my Italian grandparents emigrated here and applied for a Visa, through the request and sponsorship of my parents, when they arrived they could not speak a word of English, only Italian....well...my grandfather was better understanding English than my grandmother only because he was in business where he came from, ran a bar and restaurant that was next to an overseas USAF Base so he learned a little English, enough to get by in understanding his clientele... My father was USAF and my mother Italian, (my mother was educated and spoke and wrote 5 languages fluently, English being one)

Well, after they arrived here, they bought a home in Brooklyn in an Italian neighborhood and waited the 5 years before they could apply for citizenship. My grandparents were in their late 50's and 60's when they got here and 5 years later my grandpa was doing good with speaking English, but my grandmother was really having a hard time... she had a job and worked until she was 75 in a factory, but never learned English because her boss spoke Italian and because she was an old dog who could not be taught new tricks.

She practiced and practiced and practiced her answers to the questions she was given ahead of time for her citizenship test, but still fumbled through it.... they passed her and my grand dad anyway, and gave them US citizenship....even though she could not speak English.

==============
Thanks for verifying the fact that the citizenship test requires the ability to speak rudimentary English.

The people working there then made an exception for her based on her long history. I don't know if that was 100% legal to do or not --- although I think everyone would say they did the right thing.

I believe in the law and I also know there are times to be reasonable and make an exception like that.

Problem is that they don't even try to enforce the law anymore.

They know people are taking the test for others. They see them in the test room every day.

And they IGNORE it.

 

[Unkotare]

......

But the Citizenship Test very clearly requires applicants to be able to demonstrate basic comprehension of English and the ability to speak and write to minimal levels.

There are people who take the test for applicants and make a living doing that. People who can't speak English hire them to take the exam for them.....

Evidence? Those would likely be rare cases, since the test of English use and comprehension is very simple.



However, the point in question is that the ability to speak English fluently is not an indicator of nationality or status. There are quite a few people born in the US for whom English is not their first language.

 

[Unkotare]

....

They know people are taking the test for others. They see them in the test room every day.

And they IGNORE it.

Proof?

 

[Unkotare]

....

But companies that don't do business in other countries usually have little to no need for an interpreter......

Wow, don't get out of Mayberry much, huh?

 

[Unkotare]

....

Yet ICE doesn't bother to check out companies that post ads requiring candidates to be bi-lingual.......

There is absolutely nothing illegal about looking for or hiring bilingual people to fill positions in any given company. Hiring illegals is certainly NOT the only reason a company might be looking for someone with such skills.

=========
Once again, I never said it was illegal for employers to advertise for " bi-lingual ".

But companies that don't do business in other countries usually have little to no need for an interpreter.

Why should a foreman in a Tyson Chicken plant need to be bi-lingual? A foreman on a roofing crew?
Most of these companies are dealing in physical labor and the reason they need a bi-lingual person on staff is because the people working for them don't speak English ( either < any > English or enough to be certain they understand you at all times ).

Of course there are positions where companies do business with foreign countries and they have need for people able to write letters and handle phone calls in the appropriate language.

People on assembly lines have little need to be able to speak two languages.

Of course you know that and are just looking for loopholes trying to justify yourself in any way you can.

Wow, have you ever been to Miami? Or certain parts of almost any major metropolitan area for that matter?

 

[Unkotare]

...

They inserted the word " knowingly " ... as in " the employer must be shown to have knowingly hired the illegal applicant ". It is almost impossible to prove whether or not the employer knew or suspected that the documents the invading alien produces are fake or not.

And, to be fair, you can buy very convincing fake identities complete with Social Security number and drivers license ( all forged ) for less than $500 in most cities......

And so? You want the employer liable if someone pulls one over on him or her? What do you think that's going to do for the economy? No common sense common ground to distinguish between an employer just exploiting illegals and an employer who got scammed by a crafty individual or a slick fraud ring?

============

When the " employee " hands the employer documents that say he was born in St. Louis and his name if Fred Wilson but he can't speak English THAT should be a very big sign.

Most employers know perfectly well that they are hiring illegals.

Many businesses have " recruiters " in Mexico and South American countries that recruit skilled employees and give them a special business card to give to HR when they get to the workplace.

Yet those same businessmen who own the companies want to hide behind the word " knowingly " and pretend they didn't know.

Employers should be required to check much more deeply than just accepting the employees word and documents that may or may not be falsified.

When the prospective employee can't speak English it's a big warning flag.

Many help wanted ads in the papers these days specify " must be bilingual " because they have employees who can't speak English. They have to hire bi-lingual people for supervisory positions because the employees speak no English at all.

Yet ICE doesn't bother to check out companies that post ads requiring candidates to be bi-lingual.

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

Considering that the requirements for obtaining citizenship require the person to demonstrate the ability to speak and write basic English, the inability to speak the language is a pretty big indication of illegality.

When my Italian grandparents emigrated here and applied for a Visa, through the request and sponsorship of my parents, when they arrived they could not speak a word of English, only Italian....well...my grandfather was better understanding English than my grandmother only because he was in business where he came from, ran a bar and restaurant that was next to an overseas USAF Base so he learned a little English, enough to get by in understanding his clientele... My father was USAF and my mother Italian, (my mother was educated and spoke and wrote 5 languages fluently, English being one)

Well, after they arrived here, they bought a home in Brooklyn in an Italian neighborhood and waited the 5 years before they could apply for citizenship. My grandparents were in their late 50's and 60's when they got here and 5 years later my grandpa was doing good with speaking English, but my grandmother was really having a hard time... she had a job and worked until she was 75 in a factory, but never learned English because her boss spoke Italian and because she was an old dog who could not be taught new tricks.

She practiced and practiced and practiced her answers to the questions she was given ahead of time for her citizenship test, but still fumbled through it.... they passed her and my grand dad anyway, and gave them US citizenship....even though she could not speak English.

There are exemptions for age and time in residence.

 

[Muhammed]

 

[Arizona Willie]

......

But the Citizenship Test very clearly requires applicants to be able to demonstrate basic comprehension of English and the ability to speak and write to minimal levels.

There are people who take the test for applicants and make a living doing that. People who can't speak English hire them to take the exam for them.....

Evidence? Those would likely be rare cases, since the test of English use and comprehension is very simple.



However, the point in question is that the ability to speak English fluently is not an indicator of nationality or status. There are quite a few people born in the US for whom English is not their first language.

===============

And just where did I ever say it had to be their first language?

You keep throwing that into the discussion but I never said it had to be their FIRST language.

I only said that the Citizenship test requires them to demonstrate an ability to speak and write rudimentary / basic English.

Nothing you have posted refutes that.

Once again --- I never said it had to be their first language.

 

[Unkotare]

And you seem to keep forgetting something

 

[billyerock1991]

In the end some of you should come to reality, but alas you are the type that cares less about the reality and more about what Hannity and Limbaugh tell you to believe!

===========

I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general, those who support illegal immigration and want to let them stay are either fucking them or employing them.

You can place the blame on our government as well.

Is it legal to hire illegals in your state?

It's illegal for them to be here in the first place.
If our government did their job we wouldnt have a problem.

for them to do their job they have to know where they are ... they know where they are ... the fact that you feel the government isn't doing their job sw3s us you don't know what you're talking about ... when the obama administration has deported more illegals then any president in the past 50 years, where people like you who keep their heads in the republican sand, who aren't aware of this, it's people like your who are the first to whine about them being here... but never give credit where credit is due ...

We need to end Illegal Immigration once and for all. And i'm very skeptical of this story. Looks like a conveniently planted story. Looks like the Hussein and Clinton folks are getting nervous about the People overwhelmingly supporting Trump's views on the awful Immigration mess.

As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave of their own volition over a few years, and the remaining few who are committed to the US will obtain citizenship through normal channels.

This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a Guatemalan Dream (and so on).

- See more at: Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

if only republicans would get that ...but then again they were never too bright

 

[sealybobo]

In the end some of you should come to reality, but alas you are the type that cares less about the reality and more about what Hannity and Limbaugh tell you to believe!

===========

I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general, those who support illegal immigration and want to let them stay are either fucking them or employing them.

Is it legal to hire illegals in your state?

It's illegal for them to be here in the first place.
If our government did their job we wouldnt have a problem.

for them to do their job they have to know where they are ... they know where they are ... the fact that you feel the government isn't doing their job sw3s us you don't know what you're talking about ... when the obama administration has deported more illegals then any president in the past 50 years, where people like you who keep their heads in the republican sand, who aren't aware of this, it's people like your who are the first to whine about them being here... but never give credit where credit is due ...

We need to end Illegal Immigration once and for all. And i'm very skeptical of this story. Looks like a conveniently planted story. Looks like the Hussein and Clinton folks are getting nervous about the People overwhelmingly supporting Trump's views on the awful Immigration mess.

As long as employers are willing and able (without severe penalties) to hire illegal workers, people will risk life and limb to grab at the America Dream. When we stop hiring and paying them, most will leave of their own volition over a few years, and the remaining few who are committed to the US will obtain citizenship through normal channels.

This is, after all, the middle-class "American Dream." And how much better this hemisphere would be if Central and South Americans were motivated to stay in their own nations (because no employer in the US would dare hire them) and fight there for a Mexican Dream and a Salvadoran Dream and a Guatemalan Dream (and so on).

- See more at: Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

if only republicans would get that ...but then again they were never too bright

My favorite part is "American corporations wouldn't dare hire them."

Wouldn't that be nice?

 

[paulitician]

Who and what will Hussein be raiding? Who will he be deporting? A couple of white-ish loooking Europeans who may have over-stayed their Visas? Sorry, i'm just not buying this one. Seems like a way-too conveniently planted story. It's another scam.

Hussein and Clinton must be getting very nervous about Trump. The People overwhelmingly support ending Illegal Immigration once and for all. Trump really is onto something. Clearly, that's making some very nervous.

I know you are confused. The GOP has you confused. That's because they talk out of both sides of their mouth and say two completely different things. The Democrats aren't perfect on this issue either, but make no mistake the GOP are not your friends little buddy.

This 'raid' story is actually pretty funny. Who and what will Hussein be raiding? My guess is, he'll grab a couple white-ish looking Europeans and then claim he's all about enforcing the law. It's a joke. It is time to end Illegal Immigration.

So as a liberal I'm telling you I will agree with you, but you got to take your head out of Rush limbaugh's ass now. You have to wake up from your worshipping corporations and realize that if they weren't employing them, the illegals will go home.

You righties, instead of trying my suggestion, will now typically shift the argument in another direction. You can't get yourself to blame employers for anything. Not even illegal ones.

Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"

Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

Seriously, you read through these two articles and realize Thom is also blaming the Democrats. You know how you guys say all the time there is no difference between the two parties? This is one of those issues where I will agree with you.

This is an issue where liberals and conservatives agree. We need to solve our illegal immigration problem. Who's hiring them? Lets go after them. They'll send those mexicans packing when they fire them. No job, no stay. Get it?

I don't listen to Limbaugh. And i do blame Employers as well. They're definitely a big part of the problem. But this 'raid' story is Bullshite. Hussein is actually making the problem much worse. He's dismantled our Immigration System and opened the flood gates.

It's another one of his big 'fuck yous' to Whitey. Gotta 'brown it up', and all that. He's always been about getting Whitey, going back to his days worshipping racist assholes like Jeremiah Wright. So he got his revenge on Whitey, but at what cost to the nation. Generations will be paying for his petty racist revenge for many years to come.