Israel and apartheid

[Marc39]

Israel has no constitution.

You have no knowledge of Israel.
In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court elevated its Basic Laws to constitutional status, guaranteeing every citizen identical rights.

Now, even you know.

Maybe you'll believe the Jewish Virtual Library

Constitution

I'm smarter.

 

[al Haq]

You have no knowledge of Israel.
In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court elevated its Basic Laws to constitutional status, guaranteeing every citizen identical rights.

Now, even you know.

Maybe you'll believe the Jewish Virtual Library

Constitution

I'm smarter.

I am sure you are the brightest student in your kindergarten.

 

[cupe doll]

So what happened? Why have 2010 Israel apartheid weeks sputtered and failed like soggy fuses?

Clearly, IAW organizers made a big mistake. Like audio jockeys overplaying a top-ten hit, they pushed their hatred too hard. International audiences did not exactly get tired of hearing it -- there's probably enough anti-Semitism to have kept IAW near the top of the charts for a very long time. But once IAW became too loud and too proud for pleasant background noise? Once the volume got raised to foreground in everyone's face? That's when people had to wonder what IAW really meant. People had to actually think about IAW. And, of course, IAW cannot bear rational thinking.

Right? There cannot be apartheid in self-defense. The contradiction is too transparent for anyone not to see right through it. Therefore, IAW organizers, allies, followers and sympathizers had to claim that Israel does not fight in self-defense. That Israel has nothing to fear from Islamist societies. That, to the contrary, Islamist societies must always defend against Israeli aggression. Unfortunately, the only mileage such claims traverse is from blatant absurdity to patent falsehood.

Israel insists it fights in self-defense. That even to survive it must win all wars Islamist societies always start. Israel claims it has no interest to colonize, cleanse, genocide or otherwise molest Islamist societies.

Islamist societies, on the other hand? Islamist societies keep no secrets. They do keep bragging how they will genocide Israel. One Islamist society is actually chartered on genociding Israel.

Who to believe? It doesn't matter. Whether international audiences credit everything Israel claims. Or whether international audiences can't believe anything Israeli and place full faith in Islamist societies forever boasting Israel's genocide. Either way. Israel must fight in self-defense.

This is how IAW became too sordid for merely casual gazing or listening -- nevermind participating. For if one cannot avoid actually thinking about it? There's no help concluding Israel must fight in self-defense. And if Israel must fight in self-defense? Then screaming "Israel Apartheid" entails not just contradiction -- but almost inconceivable hatred.

Why? Because those screaming "Israel Apartheid" seem to really mean it. They really seem to be all that offended by Israel defending against Islamist societies out to genocide her. As if self-defense by Israelis were equivalent to South-African apartheid. And that goes beyond discrimination. It goes beyond contradiction. It goes beyond incoherence. It goes to the kind of hatred most of us cannot readily conceive.

When you really hate someone for defending against attempted genocide? That's genocidal hatred.

 

[Marc39]

maybe you'll believe the jewish virtual library

constitution

i'm smarter.

i am sure you are the brightest student in your kindergarten.

pwned.

 

[al Haq]

pwned.

Indeed you were.

 

[P F Tinmore]

All Israeli citizens have constitutionally guaranteed freedoms, human rights and civil liberties.

Israel has no constitution.

Summary:

Israel does not have a written constitution, even though according to the Proclamation of Independence a constituent assembly should have prepared a constitution by October 1, 1948. The delay in the preparation of a constitution resulted primarily from problems that emerged against the background of the alleged clash between a secular constitution and the Halacha (the Jewish religious law).

Constitution

Yeah but marc never lets the truth get in the way of his blather.

 

[Winston Smith]

LOL, I don't really need proof from you, rather I just need firewalls.

there goes a jew talking about another WALL...

Before Israel, Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together in peace. Since Israel, Muslims and Christians live together in peace while the Jews live in fear on the other side of a wall.

Sure they did. I mean, 2,000 years of warfare between the two faiths (no to mention within different sects within the faiths) don't count....

 

[Winston Smith]

Israel has no constitution.

You have no knowledge of Israel.
In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court elevated its Basic Laws to constitutional status, guaranteeing every citizen identical rights.

Now, even you know.

Maybe you'll believe the Jewish Virtual Library

Constitution

The idea that only a single written down document like a constitution guarentees civil liberties is false. Israel's Chukey Yesod (Lit. Basic Laws), have the same force of law as a codified contituion, just like Great Britain and New Zealand.

 

[P F Tinmore]

there goes a jew talking about another WALL...

Before Israel, Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together in peace. Since Israel, Muslims and Christians live together in peace while the Jews live in fear on the other side of a wall.

Sure they did. I mean, 2,000 years of warfare between the two faiths (no to mention within different sects within the faiths) don't count....

It is stated in most historical accounts that the relationship between faiths in Palestine before Israel was amicable. One Jew described this relationship when he said: "Our grandmothers used to babysit each others children."

 

[Winston Smith]

Before Israel, Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together in peace. Since Israel, Muslims and Christians live together in peace while the Jews live in fear on the other side of a wall.

Sure they did. I mean, 2,000 years of warfare between the two faiths (no to mention within different sects within the faiths) don't count....

It is stated in most historical accounts that the relationship between faiths in Palestine before Israel was amicable. One Jew described this relationship when he said: "Our grandmothers used to babysit each others children."

I would have asked for a source of the quote but it is completely irrelevant. Even at times when relations were "amicable", jews were still treated like second class citizens. It does not change the fact the for the past 2,000 years (actually, far longer than that), Jews, Christians and Muslims have fought for this peace of lands. The illusion you are trying to create that before Israel, everything was peaceful and rosy in the Palestine or the Region is a bad joke.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Sure they did. I mean, 2,000 years of warfare between the two faiths (no to mention within different sects within the faiths) don't count....

It is stated in most historical accounts that the relationship between faiths in Palestine before Israel was amicable. One Jew described this relationship when he said: "Our grandmothers used to babysit each others children."

I would have asked for a source of the quote but it is completely irrelevant. Even at times when relations were "amicable", jews were still treated like second class citizens. It does not change the fact the for the past 2,000 years (actually, far longer than that), Jews, Christians and Muslims have fought for this peace of lands. The illusion you are trying to create that before Israel, everything was peaceful and rosy in the Palestine or the Region is a bad joke.

I think you are incorrect. One of the things to note is that the Palestinian Jews did not want a Jewish state. Why would they want to remain "second class citizens" in Palestine when they could have a state of their own? One indication of this is that of all the people who signed Israel's declaration of independence and all the people who formed Israel's first government, only one was born in Palestine. The rest were all foreigners.

Why would there be so little participation of Palestinian Jews if there was discontent?

 

[Marc39]

It is stated in most historical accounts that the relationship between faiths in Palestine before Israel was amicable. One Jew described this relationship when he said: "Our grandmothers used to babysit each others children."

I would have asked for a source of the quote but it is completely irrelevant. Even at times when relations were "amicable", jews were still treated like second class citizens. It does not change the fact the for the past 2,000 years (actually, far longer than that), Jews, Christians and Muslims have fought for this peace of lands. The illusion you are trying to create that before Israel, everything was peaceful and rosy in the Palestine or the Region is a bad joke.

I think you are incorrect. One of the things to note is that the Palestinian Jews did not want a Jewish state. Why would they want to remain "second class citizens" in Palestine when they could have a state of their own? One indication of this is that of all the people who signed Israel's declaration of independence and all the people who formed Israel's first government, only one was born in Palestine. The rest were all foreigners.

Why would there be so little participation of Palestinian Jews if there was discontent?

You know less than nothing about the subject matter, as has been demonstrated repeatedly.

You are the Forum Dunce.

 

[Marc39]

Before Israel, Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together in peace. Since Israel, Muslims and Christians live together in peace while the Jews live in fear on the other side of a wall.

Sure they did. I mean, 2,000 years of warfare between the two faiths (no to mention within different sects within the faiths) don't count....

It is stated in most historical accounts that the relationship between faiths in Palestine before Israel was amicable. One Jew described this relationship when he said: "Our grandmothers used to babysit each others children."

Nonsense, Forum Dunce. Jews lived as dhimmis under Muslim rule in Palestine and elsewhere, stripped of their civil rights. Suggestions to the contrary demonstrate why you are the Forum Dunce.

Eminent Middle East historian and Islamic scholar Bernard Lewis...

The claim to tolerance, now much heard from Muslim apologists and more especially from apologists for Islam, is also new and of alien origin. It is only very recently that some defenders of Islam have begun to assert that their society in the past accorded equal status to non-Muslims. No such claim is made by spokesmen for resurgent Islam, and historically there is no doubt that they are right. Traditional Islamic societies neither accorded such equality nor pretended that they were so doing. Indeed, in the old order, this would have been regarded not as a merit but as a dereliction of duty. How could one accord the same treatment to those who follow the true faith and those who willfully reject it? This would be a theological as well as a logical absurdity.

You are the Forum Dunce.

 

[al Haq]

The idea that only a single written down document like a constitution guarentees civil liberties is false. Israel's Chukey Yesod (Lit. Basic Laws), have the same force of law as a codified contituion, just like Great Britain and New Zealand.

I didn't suggest any of that - I was responding to the claim that rights were "constitutionally" guaranteed in Israel.

 

[Marc39]

The idea that only a single written down document like a constitution guarentees civil liberties is false. Israel's Chukey Yesod (Lit. Basic Laws), have the same force of law as a codified contituion, just like Great Britain and New Zealand.

I didn't suggest any of that - I was responding to the claim that rights were "constitutionally" guaranteed in Israel.

The Israeli High Court elevated Basic Laws pertaining to human rights and civil liberties to constitutional status in the 1990s.

Meanwhile, human rights and civil liberties are virtually absent throughout the Arab and Muslims world.

 

[al Haq]

The idea that only a single written down document like a constitution guarentees civil liberties is false. Israel's Chukey Yesod (Lit. Basic Laws), have the same force of law as a codified contituion, just like Great Britain and New Zealand.

I didn't suggest any of that - I was responding to the claim that rights were "constitutionally" guaranteed in Israel.

The Israeli High Court elevated Basic Laws pertaining to human rights and civil liberties to constitutional status in the 1990s.

Meanwhile, human rights and civil liberties are virtually absent throughout the Arab and Muslims world.

Either it's a constitution, or it isn't.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."

-Lewis Carroll
-Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6

 

[Marc39]

I didn't suggest any of that - I was responding to the claim that rights were "constitutionally" guaranteed in Israel.

The Israeli High Court elevated Basic Laws pertaining to human rights and civil liberties to constitutional status in the 1990s.

Meanwhile, human rights and civil liberties are virtually absent throughout the Arab and Muslims world.

Either it's a constitution, or it isn't.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."

-Lewis Carroll
-Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6

Israel's comprehensive set of Basic Laws effectively functions as Israel's Constitution. The United Kingdom has no constitution, whatsoever, so, go after them and try to close the UK down.

Meanwhile, 400 million+ Arabs and Muslims are denied any constitutional rights throughout the Middle East and North Africa. Yet, you're fixated on Israel, with merely 7 million population. Typical of Arabs and Muslims.

 

[al Haq]

The Israeli High Court elevated Basic Laws pertaining to human rights and civil liberties to constitutional status in the 1990s.

Meanwhile, human rights and civil liberties are virtually absent throughout the Arab and Muslims world.

Either it's a constitution, or it isn't.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."

-Lewis Carroll
-Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6

Israel's comprehensive set of Basic Laws effectively functions as Israel's Constitution. The United Kingdom has no constitution, whatsoever, so, go after them and try to close the UK down.

Meanwhile, 400 million+ Arabs and Muslims are denied any constitutional rights throughout the Middle East and North Africa. Yet, you're fixated on Israel, with merely 7 million population. Typical of Arabs and Muslims.

You seem to be hyperventilating. If someone was silly enough to claim that Britain's laws were "constitutional," I would point out the same fact.

 

[Marc39]

Either it's a constitution, or it isn't.

Israel's comprehensive set of Basic Laws effectively functions as Israel's Constitution. The United Kingdom has no constitution, whatsoever, so, go after them and try to close the UK down.

Meanwhile, 400 million+ Arabs and Muslims are denied any constitutional rights throughout the Middle East and North Africa. Yet, you're fixated on Israel, with merely 7 million population. Typical of Arabs and Muslims.

You seem to be hyperventilating. If someone was silly enough to claim that Britain's laws were "constitutional," I would point out the same fact.

Israel's Supreme Court has ruled its Basic Laws as constitutional in status. That's all that really matters, as far as Israelis are concerned. If any Israeli citizen has a grievance, they are constitutionally entitled to redress in the courts, including an appelate process through the High Court, itself. Arabs prevail over Jews regularly. No such rights exist in the Arab and Muslims worlds.

 

[Winston Smith]

It is stated in most historical accounts that the relationship between faiths in Palestine before Israel was amicable. One Jew described this relationship when he said: "Our grandmothers used to babysit each others children."

I would have asked for a source of the quote but it is completely irrelevant. Even at times when relations were "amicable", jews were still treated like second class citizens. It does not change the fact the for the past 2,000 years (actually, far longer than that), Jews, Christians and Muslims have fought for this peace of lands. The illusion you are trying to create that before Israel, everything was peaceful and rosy in the Palestine or the Region is a bad joke.

I think you are incorrect. One of the things to note is that the Palestinian Jews did not want a Jewish state. Why would they want to remain "second class citizens" in Palestine when they could have a state of their own? One indication of this is that of all the people who signed Israel's declaration of independence and all the people who formed Israel's first government, only one was born in Palestine. The rest were all foreigners.

Why would there be so little participation of Palestinian Jews if there was discontent?

You keep repeating the "palestinian jews did not want a jewish state" argument. any credible source for that? except for a small group of ultra-orthodox jews called "neturey karta", most of whom live in New York and london (these are the same A-Holes that participated in Ahmadinedjad's holocaust denial conference), i know of no jewish group that objects to the existence of israel, and their the lack of the arrival of the "messiah" is the reason for their objection.