Israel & iran

[Hossfly]

With people like Ima, no matter what Israel does or does not do, Israel is to blame.

Blame it all on Bush.

 

[MJB12741]

Won't this look pretty flying all over Tehran?

Israeli Flag, Israel Flag image

 

[ima]

The Palestinian Arabs are free. They have their own government, such as it is, the PA, their own land, Areas A and B in the West Bank and Gaza. There is nothing preventing these Arabs from enjoying all the benefits of a prosperous democracy other than their continuing opposition to the existence of the Jewish state of Israel and their apparent incompetence when it comes to governing themselves. The only Palestinian Arabs who are not entirely free are those, about 50,000, who live in Area C, and that can be quickly remedied by Israel annexing Area C and granting them full Israeli citizenship.

Did you know that for the arabs to go anywhere, that they have to spend most of the day going through Israeli checkpoints. And they have this thing, it's called simply The Wall, and it's not made by Pink Floyd. And on the sea side, they don't let boats through, it's called a naval blockade.

All of these things are in response to acts of Arab terrorism, and despite the checkpoints and security barrier and the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has spent training, arming and maintaining PA security forces, every day the Shin Bet and IDF stop several terrorists on their way to commit racist hate crimes against Jewish civilians, or as you like to call it, getting their shit together, and every day the Gaza terrorists smuggle in more weapons with which to try to bomb Israeli civilians.

Before the second intifada there were no checkpoints or security barrier separating the West Bank from Israel and Palestinian Arabs and Israelis moved freely across the green line, and large numbers of Palestinian Arabs worked and lived in Israel. If the Arabs ever decide they want to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel, then all these very expensive security measures will no longer be necessary.

Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?

 

[ima]

So the message you want to convey is that you are not just an anti semite but an equal opportunity hater and bigot and that you consider people with whom you disagree "crazies", and that you are so "chill" with that it makes you laugh just to talk about it. It is interesting that while you express contempt for Christians who believe in the apocalypse and second coming, you, like them, are only able to conceive of the animosities the Arabs/Muslims hold towards Israel being finally resolved in an apocalypse; the main difference between your visions and their's seems to be that they have hope for a better future after the horror of war and you are only capable of contemplating the horror. It must be painful to be you.

What is interesting about your posts is not the biases you express but the question: since you have not been sufficiently interested in the issues or history of the region or its conflicts to have learned about them why do you spend so much time posting such strongly held biases in this forum? The answer can be found in the content of your posts. You clearly are unable to consider Israeli actions on other than horrifying terms, killing, ethnic cleansing, etc., and you are unable to consider that the Arabs/Muslim will find a way of dealing with Israel in other than horrifying terms. Since it is clear you have no intellectual interest in the issues or history discussed here, it seems clear that you come here to use Israelis and Arabs/Muslims in your fantasies as proxies for your visions of anger and violence you cannot safely express in your real life.

If I'm amusing myself, it's only because the pro-Israel side at this site is just so full of shit that it's not easy to take you guys seriously. Like you think that the arabs are ever going to agree to peace when they've said over and over that there's a serious bunch of them who will never stop trying to recoup the losses of battles past. And you all are trying your hardest to ignore that fact, and I just find it interesting to hear all of your reasons why Israel is right on all counts. And a little bit funny at time because you're arguments and what you seem to believe are just so absurd that it can make me laugh. And what can I say about JStone? He's an embarrassment to Jews everywhere.
And everyone is interested in this conflict, it's the key to world peace. The reason behind 9/11 and now responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in Afghanistan and Irak. And maybe Iran soon as well.
And Christians who back Israel because they need Israel to get nuked so that Jesus can come back are total morons, you don't agree? But according to you, because Jesus is coming back, at least they're looking towards a better future and I'm not? You're an idiot.

Once again, you have nothing to offer but slogans you don't understand about subjects of which you are profoundly ignorant. There's a huge amount of information on the internet. If you were truly interested in the issues or the history of the region, you would be trying to learn something about them instead of just mindlessly parroting slogans you think you're supposed to believe in

What slogans?
You're only response to me is to call me ignorant if I don't agree with you. Name calling? Ya, you're a serious debater. Now go stand over next to JStone.

I've actually learned something at this board already: people (not me, I think both sides have faults and am not arab or jewish, so I don't have strong feelings either way, I'm not in the line of fire, so to speak) are so entrenched on each side of the debate that I seriously doubt that any real peace will ever be possible along the lines that are being negotiated.

 

[editec]

The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit. Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.

Okay...then what's the plan?

 

[ima]

With people like Ima, no matter what Israel does or does not do, Israel is to blame.

I think that the state of Israel was established in totally the wrong place of the world. If you would have sat down pre-1948 and tried to come up with the absolute worst place in the world to start a Jewish state, I think only Mecca would have been a worse spot.

That said, I think that since Israel is quite small, the arabs could say: ya, ok, whatever. And move on. Like, there's not even any oil there! (or maybe there is? Have they drilled ever?).

And that said, if there's a huge number of arabs who seem to want their land back, and seem to think that it's their land to get back (again, an observation, not necessarily my personal opinion), then Israel has a decision to make, stay or go. They've chosen to stay, which i think is a bad move. Again, just an observation that Israel would be better off in a part of Canada or Australia, 2 countries with room to spare for example, before the arabs REALLY get their shit together. And on that point, I'd say that it's only a matter of time before armageddon comes to the middle east and all the Christian nutjobs will be happy.
Or else dissolve Israel and make a wider country that encompasses the whole region where all races and religions are equal. Like a Canada for example.

 

[Hossfly]

Won't this look pretty flying all over Tehran?

Israeli Flag, Israel Flag image

Don't forget this accessory!

http://www.flagpolewarehouse.com/flagsforlessonline/messageflags/321986.gif

 

[MJB12741]

I agree with Ima. What right does Israel have to keep the Palestinians captives in a foreign land with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions? Face it folks, not even once has Netanyahu even tried to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands. Shame on Israel for not finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return.

Did you know that for the arabs to go anywhere, that they have to spend most of the day going through Israeli checkpoints. And they have this thing, it's called simply The Wall, and it's not made by Pink Floyd. And on the sea side, they don't let boats through, it's called a naval blockade.

All of these things are in response to acts of Arab terrorism, and despite the checkpoints and security barrier and the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has spent training, arming and maintaining PA security forces, every day the Shin Bet and IDF stop several terrorists on their way to commit racist hate crimes against Jewish civilians, or as you like to call it, getting their shit together, and every day the Gaza terrorists smuggle in more weapons with which to try to bomb Israeli civilians.

Before the second intifada there were no checkpoints or security barrier separating the West Bank from Israel and Palestinian Arabs and Israelis moved freely across the green line, and large numbers of Palestinian Arabs worked and lived in Israel. If the Arabs ever decide they want to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel, then all these very expensive security measures will no longer be necessary.

Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?

 

[ima]

I agree with Ima. What right does Israel have to keep the Palestinians captives in a foreign land with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions? Face it folks, not even once has Netanyahu even tried to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands. Shame on Israel for not finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return.

All of these things are in response to acts of Arab terrorism, and despite the checkpoints and security barrier and the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has spent training, arming and maintaining PA security forces, every day the Shin Bet and IDF stop several terrorists on their way to commit racist hate crimes against Jewish civilians, or as you like to call it, getting their shit together, and every day the Gaza terrorists smuggle in more weapons with which to try to bomb Israeli civilians.

Before the second intifada there were no checkpoints or security barrier separating the West Bank from Israel and Palestinian Arabs and Israelis moved freely across the green line, and large numbers of Palestinian Arabs worked and lived in Israel. If the Arabs ever decide they want to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel, then all these very expensive security measures will no longer be necessary.

Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?

Where do you think all the Pallies were born? In Jordan? Lebanon? Syria?... You want them to go home? Like to where they were born?

 

[JStone]

Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939

So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country [Israel] and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan

Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today

Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. “Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.

It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.

Jerusalem has always remained a Jewish majority – a symbol of Jewish yearning to be an independent nation as they thrived in communities in many of Palestine’s towns. “By 1864, a clear-cut Jewish majority emerged in Jerusalem - more than half a century before the arrival of the British Empire and the League of Nations Mandate. During the years that the Jewish presence in Eretz Israel was restored, a huge Arab population influx transpired as Arab immigrants sought to take advantage of higher wages and economic opportunities that resulted from Jewish settlement in the land. President Roosevelt concluded in 1939 that "Arab immigration into Palestine since 1921 has vastly exceeded the total Jewish immigration during the whole period."

The present Arab declaration challenging the Jewish character of Israel cannot be ignored because it is not just an expression of dissatisfaction by a minority about their socio-economic situation but a reminder that Islamist radicalism and fundamentalism has now decided to challenge openly the legitimacy of the Jewish state.
Global Politician - Israel?s Arab Citizens And The Jewish State

 

[toomuchtime_]

Did you know that for the arabs to go anywhere, that they have to spend most of the day going through Israeli checkpoints. And they have this thing, it's called simply The Wall, and it's not made by Pink Floyd. And on the sea side, they don't let boats through, it's called a naval blockade.

All of these things are in response to acts of Arab terrorism, and despite the checkpoints and security barrier and the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has spent training, arming and maintaining PA security forces, every day the Shin Bet and IDF stop several terrorists on their way to commit racist hate crimes against Jewish civilians, or as you like to call it, getting their shit together, and every day the Gaza terrorists smuggle in more weapons with which to try to bomb Israeli civilians.

Before the second intifada there were no checkpoints or security barrier separating the West Bank from Israel and Palestinian Arabs and Israelis moved freely across the green line, and large numbers of Palestinian Arabs worked and lived in Israel. If the Arabs ever decide they want to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel, then all these very expensive security measures will no longer be necessary.

Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?

They are free to go about their lives as law abiding people, but they are not free to engage in criminal activities. In any American city if there is rioting and criminal activity on a sufficient scale, the police will declare an emergency, effectively blockade the area, set up checkpoints, stop people on the street and demand identification, etc. This is exactly what happened in many cities in the 1960's when riots broke out.

The steps Israel has taken to protect its citizens from Palestinian Arab hate crimes is proportionate to threat. No country would do any less and most would take much harsher measures.

 

[JStone]

All of these things are in response to acts of Arab terrorism, and despite the checkpoints and security barrier and the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has spent training, arming and maintaining PA security forces, every day the Shin Bet and IDF stop several terrorists on their way to commit racist hate crimes against Jewish civilians, or as you like to call it, getting their shit together, and every day the Gaza terrorists smuggle in more weapons with which to try to bomb Israeli civilians.

Before the second intifada there were no checkpoints or security barrier separating the West Bank from Israel and Palestinian Arabs and Israelis moved freely across the green line, and large numbers of Palestinian Arabs worked and lived in Israel. If the Arabs ever decide they want to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel, then all these very expensive security measures will no longer be necessary.

Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?

They are free to go about their lives as law abiding people, but they are not free to engage in criminal activities. In any American city if there is rioting and criminal activity on a sufficient scale, the police will declare an emergency, effectively blockade the area, set up checkpoints, stop people on the street and demand identification, etc. This is exactly what happened in many cities in the 1960's when riots broke out.

The steps Israel has taken to protect its citizens from Palestinian Arab hate crimes is proportionate to threat. No country would do any less and most would take much harsher measures.

Freedom in Hamastan allahu akbar


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWk8qjsU8]Hamas Imposing Sharia Law In Gaza - YouTube[/ame]

Hamastan Bans Display Of Lingerie

 

[ima]

All of these things are in response to acts of Arab terrorism, and despite the checkpoints and security barrier and the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has spent training, arming and maintaining PA security forces, every day the Shin Bet and IDF stop several terrorists on their way to commit racist hate crimes against Jewish civilians, or as you like to call it, getting their shit together, and every day the Gaza terrorists smuggle in more weapons with which to try to bomb Israeli civilians.

Before the second intifada there were no checkpoints or security barrier separating the West Bank from Israel and Palestinian Arabs and Israelis moved freely across the green line, and large numbers of Palestinian Arabs worked and lived in Israel. If the Arabs ever decide they want to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel, then all these very expensive security measures will no longer be necessary.

Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?

They are free to go about their lives as law abiding people, but they are not free to engage in criminal activities. In any American city if there is rioting and criminal activity on a sufficient scale, the police will declare an emergency, effectively blockade the area, set up checkpoints, stop people on the street and demand identification, etc. This is exactly what happened in many cities in the 1960's when riots broke out.

The steps Israel has taken to protect its citizens from Palestinian Arab hate crimes is proportionate to threat. No country would do any less and most would take much harsher measures.

So you're comparing Gaza or WB to an American city, so in other words, the Israelis are patrolling their own territory (Gaza or WB). So the Pallies are free under Israeli control? And of course free to behave like the Israelis want them to. You have a strange sense of freedom, what country do you live in?

 

[JStone]

Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?

They are free to go about their lives as law abiding people, but they are not free to engage in criminal activities. In any American city if there is rioting and criminal activity on a sufficient scale, the police will declare an emergency, effectively blockade the area, set up checkpoints, stop people on the street and demand identification, etc. This is exactly what happened in many cities in the 1960's when riots broke out.

The steps Israel has taken to protect its citizens from Palestinian Arab hate crimes is proportionate to threat. No country would do any less and most would take much harsher measures.

So you're comparing Gaza or WB to an American city, so in other words, the Israelis are patrolling their own territory (Gaza or WB). So the Pallies are free under Israeli control? And of course free to behave like the Israelis want them to. You have a strange sense of freedom, what country do you live in?

Gaza and Judea and Samaria have been Jewish land dating back 3000 years.

Arabs are to Israel what illegal Mexicans are to America

 

[toomuchtime_]

Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?

They are free to go about their lives as law abiding people, but they are not free to engage in criminal activities. In any American city if there is rioting and criminal activity on a sufficient scale, the police will declare an emergency, effectively blockade the area, set up checkpoints, stop people on the street and demand identification, etc. This is exactly what happened in many cities in the 1960's when riots broke out.

The steps Israel has taken to protect its citizens from Palestinian Arab hate crimes is proportionate to threat. No country would do any less and most would take much harsher measures.

So you're comparing Gaza or WB to an American city, so in other words, the Israelis are patrolling their own territory (Gaza or WB). So the Pallies are free under Israeli control? And of course free to behave like the Israelis want them to. You have a strange sense of freedom, what country do you live in?

The Palestinian Arabs are not free to commit racist hate crimes against Israeli civilians, just as they would not be free to commit such crimes in any US cities. What planet do you live on to think that if you are not free to commit racist hate crimes you are not free at all?

 

[ima]

They are free to go about their lives as law abiding people, but they are not free to engage in criminal activities. In any American city if there is rioting and criminal activity on a sufficient scale, the police will declare an emergency, effectively blockade the area, set up checkpoints, stop people on the street and demand identification, etc. This is exactly what happened in many cities in the 1960's when riots broke out.

The steps Israel has taken to protect its citizens from Palestinian Arab hate crimes is proportionate to threat. No country would do any less and most would take much harsher measures.

So you're comparing Gaza or WB to an American city, so in other words, the Israelis are patrolling their own territory (Gaza or WB). So the Pallies are free under Israeli control? And of course free to behave like the Israelis want them to. You have a strange sense of freedom, what country do you live in?

The Palestinian Arabs are not free to commit racist hate crimes against Israeli civilians, just as they would not be free to commit such crimes in any US cities. What planet do you live on to think that if you are not free to commit racist hate crimes you are not free at all?

Racist hate crimes? In Gaza? Who against who?

 

[JStone]

So you're comparing Gaza or WB to an American city, so in other words, the Israelis are patrolling their own territory (Gaza or WB). So the Pallies are free under Israeli control? And of course free to behave like the Israelis want them to. You have a strange sense of freedom, what country do you live in?

The Palestinian Arabs are not free to commit racist hate crimes against Israeli civilians, just as they would not be free to commit such crimes in any US cities. What planet do you live on to think that if you are not free to commit racist hate crimes you are not free at all?

Racist hate crimes? In Gaza? Who against who?

IMA DUNCE

My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but allah, we will chase you everywhere We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no better blood than the blood of the Jews. We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children's thirst with your blood, we will not rest until you leave the Muslim countries.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleFpY402vM]Palestinian - Terrorism - YouTube[/ame]

 

[toomuchtime_]

So you're comparing Gaza or WB to an American city, so in other words, the Israelis are patrolling their own territory (Gaza or WB). So the Pallies are free under Israeli control? And of course free to behave like the Israelis want them to. You have a strange sense of freedom, what country do you live in?

The Palestinian Arabs are not free to commit racist hate crimes against Israeli civilians, just as they would not be free to commit such crimes in any US cities. What planet do you live on to think that if you are not free to commit racist hate crimes you are not free at all?

Racist hate crimes? In Gaza? Who against who?

Even for you, that is a stupid question. Firing rockets at Jewish communities in the Negev while avoiding damage to Arab communities in the Negev constitutes a racist hate crime. Before the Gaza security barrier was up and carefully patrolled, there were frequent terror attacks from Gaza into Israel.

How can you have such strong opinions about issues about which your ignorance is so vast and profound?

 

[ima]

The Palestinian Arabs are not free to commit racist hate crimes against Israeli civilians, just as they would not be free to commit such crimes in any US cities. What planet do you live on to think that if you are not free to commit racist hate crimes you are not free at all?

Racist hate crimes? In Gaza? Who against who?

Even for you, that is a stupid question. Firing rockets at Jewish communities in the Negev while avoiding damage to Arab communities in the Negev constitutes a racist hate crime. Before the Gaza security barrier was up and carefully patrolled, there were frequent terror attacks from Gaza into Israel.

How can you have such strong opinions about issues about which your ignorance is so vast and profound?

It's because you compared gaza to an American city, which is false. You should have compared it more to two countries at war. Anyways, If the Israelis are in control, how come they're letting so many rockets be fired? If it was a US city, the cops wouldn't let anyone fire anything anytime anywhere. So what's the deal?

 

[JStone]

Racist hate crimes? In Gaza? Who against who?

Even for you, that is a stupid question. Firing rockets at Jewish communities in the Negev while avoiding damage to Arab communities in the Negev constitutes a racist hate crime. Before the Gaza security barrier was up and carefully patrolled, there were frequent terror attacks from Gaza into Israel.

How can you have such strong opinions about issues about which your ignorance is so vast and profound?

It's because you compared gaza to an American city, which is false. You should have compared it more to two countries at war. Anyways, If the Israelis are in control, how come they're letting so many rockets be fired? If it was a US city, the cops wouldn't let anyone fire anything anytime anywhere. So what's the deal?

gaza is just another arab muslime shithole, like every other arab muslime shithole.