Israel Needs a New Map

[georgephillip]

Once upon a time, Zionism was a valuable tool in the advancement of human rights for Jews world wide; the Jewish State became a solution "to the great crises of European Jewry in the late 19th and early 20th centuries." Today, Zionism functions more as an obstacle to human rights for Jews in Israel and their victims in the Occupied Territories.

"Any ideology is a map of political terrain — locating dangers, roads ahead, obstacles and opportunities. Forced to use a Zionist map of the late 19th century to navigate the 21st, Israelis are confused, often to the point of fury and despair.

"Israelis need a new map; one that does not identify anti-Semitism as the root of the country's problems; that is not wedded to the unilateralist "heroism" of land grabs in the 1930s and 1940s as a way to overcome moral uncertainties and international opprobrium; that does not fashion Palestinians as Nazis or the U.N. as the British Mandate.

"The new map must also reflect the one fundamental objective of Zionism that has been achieved. Israel is a normal country, as prone to stupidity and brutality in the name of its old gods as any other.

"More ominously, it is as likely as any other small country to pay the terrible costs of not seeing the flaws in itself it so naturally sees in others."

Israel needs a new map - latimes.com

 

[Hossfly]

Why, Georgie Boy, it is a no brainer why you go along with this Opinion piece in the L.A. Times. Of course you will never post any Opinion piece which is favorable to the Israelis in other publications (while most of the Opinion pieces in the Times are not favorable to Israel). No doubt Georgie Boy has no problem with the Hamas and Fatah's charters declaring they want the destruction of Israel. I wonder if Georgie Boy would ever post an article on one of the other forums he is on that Islam needs a new ideology where the Muslims will be able to respect those who are non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects. This I really doubt, however, since those that Georgie Boy calls "the Koshers" are not involved in this.

 

[georgephillip]

How do other countries see Israel?

"How close is Israel to pariah status? Quite close. Americans know that ratings for Congress are now in the single digits: below traffic jams, colonoscopies and cockroaches, though still above North Korea and telemarketers.

"If Israel were included in that survey it would of course do better than Congress — among Americans.

"But not in the world at large.

"In a 2003 European Union-sponsored poll, Israel was seen as more dangerous to world peace than any other country. In 2006, an Israeli government poll conducted in 35 countries found Israel had the worst public image in every category it tested.

"In 2012, the BBC reported that 50% of 24,090 people polled worldwide thought Israel had a 'mostly negative' impact on the world, tied with North Korea and exceeded only by Pakistan and Iran."

Not too well.

Israel needs a new map - latimes.com

 

[georgephillip]

Why, Georgie Boy, it is a no brainer why you go along with this Opinion piece in the L.A. Times. Of course you will never post any Opinion piece which is favorable to the Israelis in other publications (while most of the Opinion pieces in the Times are not favorable to Israel). No doubt Georgie Boy has no problem with the Hamas and Fatah's charters declaring they want the destruction of Israel. I wonder if Georgie Boy would ever post an article on one of the other forums he is on that Islam needs a new ideology where the Muslims will be able to respect those who are non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects. This I really doubt, however, since those that Georgie Boy calls "the Koshers" are not involved in this.

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, Hossie. The rest of the world knows this; why are you so dense?

 

[Hossfly]

Why, Georgie Boy, it is a no brainer why you go along with this Opinion piece in the L.A. Times. Of course you will never post any Opinion piece which is favorable to the Israelis in other publications (while most of the Opinion pieces in the Times are not favorable to Israel). No doubt Georgie Boy has no problem with the Hamas and Fatah's charters declaring they want the destruction of Israel. I wonder if Georgie Boy would ever post an article on one of the other forums he is on that Islam needs a new ideology where the Muslims will be able to respect those who are non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects. This I really doubt, however, since those that Georgie Boy calls "the Koshers" are not involved in this.

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, Hossie. The rest of the world knows this; why are you so dense?

Now how would you know that, Georgie Boy? Did they tell you that? Why can't these two rival factions get along without being at each other's throat? Georgie Boy is back to his shtick about all the Arabs living there, but of course he will never mention that they came in droves from their poor impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them. Look in your own Pico-Union neighborhood, Georgie Boy. Why do you think those Guatemalans and El Salvadorans came here? Maybe years from now Georgie Boy will say that these people were here since the U.S. became a country and certainly didn't come here for jobs. By the way, Georgie Boy, how come you have no problem with the Hashemites from Saudi Arab getting 78 percent of the Mandate? Is it because the Hashemites don't consist of those you call "the Koshers?"

 

[georgephillip]

I'm real clear about why Central Americans migrated to LA in the 80s:

"The United States was heavily involved in wars in Nicaragua, El Salvador and Guatemala in the 1980s in what Reagan described as an effort to stem Soviet influence in the hemisphere. The United States spent more than $4 billion on economic and military aid during El Salvador's civil war, in which more than 75,000 people were killed, many of them civilians caught in the crossfire."

Because hired killers trained at the School of the Americas were murdering their priests during Mass.

Sounds like something you would've been good at, Killer.
Did you shoot up any monks in Vietnam?

In Central America, Reagan Remains A Polarizing Figure (washingtonpost.com)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why, Georgie Boy, it is a no brainer why you go along with this Opinion piece in the L.A. Times. Of course you will never post any Opinion piece which is favorable to the Israelis in other publications (while most of the Opinion pieces in the Times are not favorable to Israel). No doubt Georgie Boy has no problem with the Hamas and Fatah's charters declaring they want the destruction of Israel. I wonder if Georgie Boy would ever post an article on one of the other forums he is on that Islam needs a new ideology where the Muslims will be able to respect those who are non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects. This I really doubt, however, since those that Georgie Boy calls "the Koshers" are not involved in this.

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, Hossie. The rest of the world knows this; why are you so dense?

Forced? The Arabs were free to form their own Country even bigger then Israel. Why didn't they? because they wanted all the land. 5 Arab Countries threatened the Arabs living in the new State of Israel with death and murder if they did not flee the Country.

The Jews offered them citizenship in Israel if they would stay. Those that stayed earned that citizenship, those that fled deserve the losses they suffered. No return to cowards and criminals. Hell some of them bragged about how after the Arab armies wiped out the Jews they would take the Jews land.

Arab leaders that supported the Jews were murdered by other Arabs. Those that stayed and fought were welcomed with open arms.

So tell me, why is it that if a NON Jewish Army and Country wins lands in a war of Defense you have no problem with those Countries keeping the land? But if a Jew wins the land, why it has to be returned.

You posted a fluff piece decrying the Jews. Remind us when is the last time you posted ANYTHING decrying the murderous Arab terrorists, thieves and child killers? Groups that purposefully fire rockets, mortars, missiles at schools, day care centers, Shopping malls? The same terrorists that target women and children for suicide attacks?

Remind us how Israel tried 4 times to form an Arab State and each time was met with armed resistance, more terror attacks and rock throwing?

You are a coward but that is par for the course. Muslims might hurt you if you say anything bad about them, but you can denigrate the Jew all you want and you will get applause.

 

[toastman]

Why, Georgie Boy, it is a no brainer why you go along with this Opinion piece in the L.A. Times. Of course you will never post any Opinion piece which is favorable to the Israelis in other publications (while most of the Opinion pieces in the Times are not favorable to Israel). No doubt Georgie Boy has no problem with the Hamas and Fatah's charters declaring they want the destruction of Israel. I wonder if Georgie Boy would ever post an article on one of the other forums he is on that Islam needs a new ideology where the Muslims will be able to respect those who are non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects. This I really doubt, however, since those that Georgie Boy calls "the Koshers" are not involved in this.

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, Hossie. The rest of the world knows this; why are you so dense?

Forced? The Arabs were free to form their own Country even bigger then Israel. Why didn't they? because they wanted all the land. 5 Arab Countries threatened the Arabs living in the new State of Israel with death and murder if they did not flee the Country.

The Jews offered them citizenship in Israel if they would stay. Those that stayed earned that citizenship, those that fled deserve the losses they suffered. No return to cowards and criminals. Hell some of them bragged about how after the Arab armies wiped out the Jews they would take the Jews land.

Arab leaders that supported the Jews were murdered by other Arabs. Those that stayed and fought were welcomed with open arms.

So tell me, why is it that if a NON Jewish Army and Country wins lands in a war of Defense you have no problem with those Countries keeping the land? But if a Jew wins the land, why it has to be returned.

You posted a fluff piece decrying the Jews. Remind us when is the last time you posted ANYTHING decrying the murderous Arab terrorists, thieves and child killers? Groups that purposefully fire rockets, mortars, missiles at schools, day care centers, Shopping malls? The same terrorists that target women and children for suicide attacks?

Remind us how Israel tried 4 times to form an Arab State and each time was met with armed resistance, more terror attacks and rock throwing?

You are a coward but that is par for the course. Muslims might hurt you if you say anything bad about them, but you can denigrate the Jew all you want and you will get applause.

Also remind us how pre 67 when Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza, why no Palestinian State was formed?

Im guessing because neither country would have allowed it, but of course since no Jews were involved we never hear about it.

 

[georgephillip]

Nothing you posted even though it's all true has the slightest bearing on crimes committed by the state of Israel. For example, filling the Occupied Territories with hundreds of thousands of "Jews" from around the globe while denying Arabs who had lived between the River and the sea for generations the right to reclaim properties stolen by Zionists. The Jewish State was inflicted upon a majority of those living in Mandate Palestine in 1948. Everything elite Jews have done since that time makes it clear Israel intends to govern all that land in spite of any concerns about "democracy" or "self-determination." Why is it we never hear any condemnation from you concerning Israel's criminality?

 

[georgephillip]

Why, Georgie Boy, it is a no brainer why you go along with this Opinion piece in the L.A. Times. Of course you will never post any Opinion piece which is favorable to the Israelis in other publications (while most of the Opinion pieces in the Times are not favorable to Israel). No doubt Georgie Boy has no problem with the Hamas and Fatah's charters declaring they want the destruction of Israel. I wonder if Georgie Boy would ever post an article on one of the other forums he is on that Islam needs a new ideology where the Muslims will be able to respect those who are non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects. This I really doubt, however, since those that Georgie Boy calls "the Koshers" are not involved in this.

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, Hossie. The rest of the world knows this; why are you so dense?

Forced? The Arabs were free to form their own Country even bigger then Israel. Why didn't they? because they wanted all the land. 5 Arab Countries threatened the Arabs living in the new State of Israel with death and murder if they did not flee the Country.

The Jews offered them citizenship in Israel if they would stay. Those that stayed earned that citizenship, those that fled deserve the losses they suffered. No return to cowards and criminals. Hell some of them bragged about how after the Arab armies wiped out the Jews they would take the Jews land.

Arab leaders that supported the Jews were murdered by other Arabs. Those that stayed and fought were welcomed with open arms.

So tell me, why is it that if a NON Jewish Army and Country wins lands in a war of Defense you have no problem with those Countries keeping the land? But if a Jew wins the land, why it has to be returned.

You posted a fluff piece decrying the Jews. Remind us when is the last time you posted ANYTHING decrying the murderous Arab terrorists, thieves and child killers? Groups that purposefully fire rockets, mortars, missiles at schools, day care centers, Shopping malls? The same terrorists that target women and children for suicide attacks?

Remind us how Israel tried 4 times to form an Arab State and each time was met with armed resistance, more terror attacks and rock throwing?

You are a coward but that is par for the course. Muslims might hurt you if you say anything bad about them, but you can denigrate the Jew all you want and you will get applause.

1948 Mandate Palestine.
650,000 Jews.
1.2 million Arabs.

Maybe you can explain how any interpretation of the above numbers result in a Jewish State without the forced removal of over 700,000 indigenous NON-Jews?

Possibly you have a link proving Israel's 4 attempts to form an Arab state were met with armed resistance.
Here's one that says you're full of star-spangled slave shit:

"The basic principles (of Israel-Palestine peace) have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (including Iran), and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas).

"A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976 by the major Arab states.

"Israel refused to attend the session.

The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980..."

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"

 

[docmauser1]

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, ...

If it weren't for the table-spoon, americans wouldn't be fat, indeed.

 

[georgephillip]

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, ...

If it weren't for the table-spoon, americans wouldn't be fat, indeed.

If it weren't for fat Americans, Israel wouldn't exist.

 

[irosie91]

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, ...

If it weren't for the table-spoon, americans wouldn't be fat, indeed.

If it weren't for fat Americans, Israel wouldn't exist.

There is no real basis for your statement, Georgie. Israel existed long
before most americans were aware of the fact. The USA had almost
nothing to do with the developement of the country

as to your complaint that a mere 2/3 of a million people developed a state in
part of a land over the objection of 1 1/5 million people in the area---and split
from the 1 1/5 which ended up on another part of the land SO????

historically that sort of thing has taken place many times

 

[toastman]

If it weren't for the table-spoon, americans wouldn't be fat, indeed.

If it weren't for fat Americans, Israel wouldn't exist.

There is no real basis for your statement, Georgie. Israel existed long
before most americans were aware of the fact. The USA had almost
nothing to do with the developement of the country

as to your complaint that a mere 2/3 of a million people developed a state in
part of a land over the objection of 1 1/5 million people in the area---and split
from the 1 1/5 which ended up on another part of the land SO????

historically that sort of thing has taken place many times

He's talking like the British MAndate of PAlestine was ALL filled with Arabs when in fact it wasn't and most of it was a desert

 

[Lipush]

In a 2003 European Union-sponsored poll, Israel was seen as more dangerous to world peace than any other country.

Taking to mind that in south African states the human basic rights are far worse than in Israel, interesting is that fact alone.

In 2012, the BBC reported that 50% of 24,090 people polled worldwide thought Israel had a "mostly negative" impact on the world, tied with North Korea and exceeded only by Pakistan and Iran.

I bet most of these people donät even know where to find Israel on the map, and are swallowing whatever the media tells them about Israel and Israeli policies.

while Palestinian demands to return after 65 years of exile are deemed absurd.

Which palestinians are those exactly- the ones from the west bank, Gaza..... The Palestinians are the only civilians in the WORLD which the title ´´refugee´´ sticks to, no mytter the time or place or if their grandchildren are even considered palestinians by any common sense of the word...

Israel's founding ideology has not adapted gradually to a changing world

In what the world changed that Israel is at need to adapt too, exactly

Zionism proposed a Jewish state in Palestine as a solution to the great crisis of European Jewry in the late 19th and early 20th centuries

Wrong. Zionism is a solution for every breathing Jew in the WORLD, no matter if he or she is from Germany, Hungary or Honolulu.

Even the Iron Wall, the idea that at least medium-term security can be provided by establishing Israel in Arab eyes as an unwanted but permanent reality, collapses under the threat of missiles carrying weapons of mass destruction, and the Holocaust mania they engender.

The separating wall is geographically in a totally different place than the Gaza threat.

Babbles and nonsense on that part, nothing more.

Israelis need a new map; one that does not identify anti-Semitism as the root of the country's problems; that is not wedded to the unilateralist "heroism" of land grabs in the 1930s and 1940s as a way to overcome moral uncertainties and international opprobrium; that does not fashion Palestinians as Nazis or the U.N. as the British Mandate.

No one sees anti semitism as root of the problem. Fundamentalist Islam is the root of the problems in the eyes of many Israelis. If that is what to be called as antisemitism, well....

We don´t praise ´´land grab´´. We praise lands being RELEASED by pioneer Jews, like most nations praise their fathers and grandfathers winning wars over enemy forces. Nothing wrong with that in the world, and something you dont demand of others, don´t demand of us either.

We will not fathion Palestinians as Nazis once they stop praising Hitlerism and Jewish genocide as a wished event.

The new map must also reflect the one fundamental objective of Zionism that has been achieved. Israel is a normal country, as prone to stupidity and brutality in the name of its old gods as any other. More ominously, it is as likely as any other small country to pay the terrible costs of not seeing the flaws in itself it so naturally sees in others.

We have many flaws. NONE of them has to do with Zionism.

In its day, Zionist ideology was a valuable problem identifier and guide to solutions. Now, however, except for the foundational principle that Jews deserve the rights of any other people, the traditional discourse of Zionism is an obstacle to Jewish welfare and security. Israel can live in a post-Zionist age, or it can die in one. As we say in the Jewish tradition, choose life.

If it means giving up our most basic ethos and right to self definition, then death is better.

 

[docmauser1]

Hamas and Fatah would never have come into existence if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, ...

If it weren't for the table-spoon, americans wouldn't be fat, indeed.

If it weren't for fat Americans, Israel wouldn't exist.

Blame the spoon, of course.

 

[toastman]

If it wasn't for Christopher Columbus, America wouldnlt have been founded

 

[georgephillip]

If it weren't for the table-spoon, americans wouldn't be fat, indeed.

If it weren't for fat Americans, Israel wouldn't exist.

Blame the spoon, of course.

Blame Balfour and the bankers.

"The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild..."

How much money are you making from the Occupied Territories?

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[docmauser1]

If it weren't for fat Americans, Israel wouldn't exist.

Blame the spoon, of course.

Blame Balfour and the bankers.

Are all of them "fat americans"?

"The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild..."

Ah, theological inclusiveness and liturgical breadth thought to be integral to the definition of the tradition. At least other fat americans can read a little. Comprehension's still a problem, though.

How much money are you making from the Occupied Territories?

Palistanians must stop occupying them first for the question to make sense, of course.

 

[irosie91]

I am intrigued-----how can I CASH IN---on the "occupied territories"???