Israel Needs a New Map

[georgephillip]

Rocco...many thanks for the links you've supplied.
Your scholarship and humility are always greatly appreciated.
I have to wonder about some possible cognitive biases that may compromise the logic of some of your conclusions, however.

For example, when you say "the idealism of today cannot be retroactively applied to the application of circumstances of nearly a century ago", some who were alive at that time saw clearly the idealism of "the leaders/shapers of the new century that had been steeped in war."

Smedley Butler:

"Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This
newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few -- the selfsame few who wrung
dollars out of blood in the war.

"The general public shoulders the bill.

"And what is this bill?

"This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies.
Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its
attendant miseries.

"Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

"For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I
retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the international war clouds gathering,
as they are today, I must face it and speak out.

"Again they are choosing sides..."

Most respectfully, Rocco, I think you've chosen the losing side, in spite of all the evidence presented by the last four thousand years of "civilization."

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

 

[Hossfly]

Rocco...many thanks for the links you've supplied.
Your scholarship and humility are always greatly appreciated.
I have to wonder about some possible cognitive biases that may compromise the logic of some of your conclusions, however.

For example, when you say "the idealism of today cannot be retroactively applied to the application of circumstances of nearly a century ago", some who were alive at that time saw clearly the idealism of "the leaders/shapers of the new century that had been steeped in war."

Smedley Butler:

"Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This
newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few -- the selfsame few who wrung
dollars out of blood in the war.

"The general public shoulders the bill.

"And what is this bill?

"This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies.
Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its
attendant miseries.

"Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

"For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I
retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the international war clouds gathering,
as they are today, I must face it and speak out.

"Again they are choosing sides..."

Most respectfully, Rocco, I think you've chosen the losing side, in spite of all the evidence presented by the last four thousand years of "civilization."

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

It appears that Geogie Boy spends a good part of his life trying to find articles like this. Meanwhile, Georgie Boy didn't even find it worthwhile to join the Coast Guard, to join the LAPD or the LAFD, to join the Border Patrol, to join the DEA, etc. etc. to better his position in life. However, apparently it makes him feel righteous as compensation for his poor position in life right now to "give a slap in the face" to those who have tried to serve this country no matter in what position. I am sure Rocco had no problem in serving this country, and he probably did a great job in the position he was in. I wonder if Georgie Boy goes to the National Cemetery in West Los Angeles and tells the Boy Scouts placing flags on the graves of deceased military on Memorial Day and Veterans Day that they shouldn't be doing that because it is so unAmerican.

 

[georgephillip]

And I can't help wondering if Hossie can comprehend the fact that I can both celebrate and support the Boy Scouts for their Memorial Day gestures and condemn draft-dodging parasites like Clinton and Cheney, Bush and Romney, who profit from the sacrifices of vets and their victims.

 

[Hossfly]

And I can't help wondering if Hossie can comprehend the fact that I can both celebrate and support the Boy Scouts for their Memorial Day gestures and condemn draft-dodging parasites like Clinton and Cheney, Bush and Romney, who profit from the sacrifices of vets and their victims.

And let's face it, Georgie Boy, it is a little too late for you to fake it that you actually care about Vets the way you have been carrying on about them as "killers." Have you ever gotten on a bus and visited any Vets down at the V.A. hospital in West Los Angeles, Georgie Boy, when you could pull yourself away from your computer?

 

[georgephillip]

And I can't help wondering if Hossie can comprehend the fact that I can both celebrate and support the Boy Scouts for their Memorial Day gestures and condemn draft-dodging parasites like Clinton and Cheney, Bush and Romney, who profit from the sacrifices of vets and their victims.

And let's face it, Georgie Boy, it is a little too late for you to fake it that you actually care about Vets the way you have been carrying on about them as "killers." Have you ever gotten on a bus and visited any Vets down at the V.A. hospital in West Los Angeles, Georgie Boy, when you could pull yourself away from your computer?

When you get as clear on parasites as Smedley was:

"Premier Mussolini knows what they are being trained for. He, at
least, is frank enough to speak out. Only the other day, Il Duce in 'International
Conciliation,' the publication of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said:

"'And above all, Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of
humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the
possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. . . . War alone brings up to its highest tension all
human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the people who have the courage to meet it.'"

I wonder if conservatives like yourself are even capable of understanding the contempt rich parasites like Mussolini or Cheney feel toward those with the courage to go to war?

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

 

[Hossfly]

And I can't help wondering if Hossie can comprehend the fact that I can both celebrate and support the Boy Scouts for their Memorial Day gestures and condemn draft-dodging parasites like Clinton and Cheney, Bush and Romney, who profit from the sacrifices of vets and their victims.

And let's face it, Georgie Boy, it is a little too late for you to fake it that you actually care about Vets the way you have been carrying on about them as "killers." Have you ever gotten on a bus and visited any Vets down at the V.A. hospital in West Los Angeles, Georgie Boy, when you could pull yourself away from your computer?

When you get as clear on parasites as Smedley was:

"Premier Mussolini knows what they are being trained for. He, at
least, is frank enough to speak out. Only the other day, Il Duce in 'International
Conciliation,' the publication of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said:

"'And above all, Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of
humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the
possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. . . . War alone brings up to its highest tension all
human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the people who have the courage to meet it.'"

I wonder if conservatives like yourself are even capable of understanding the contempt rich parasites like Mussolini or Cheney feel toward those with the courage to go to war?

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

I think even a halfway intelligent person reading Georgie Boy's posts by now realize that he is obsessed over money because he has so little. People in his position usually complain about the rich all the time. No doubt it makes them feel better about their own poor circumstances. Keep on complaining about the rich, Georgie Boy, if it makes your day. This is only a forum, and it really doesn't make any difference how much your complain. Your circumstances still will not change.

 

[docmauser1]

Point out any Arab state receiving $8 million a day from the US taxpayers.

None of them is worth it, indeed.

 

[docmauser1]

. . . in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country . . . The Four Great Powers are committed to Zionism. And Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age long traditions, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land. (Khalidi 1971, 208)

Khalidi, yeah. Anything credible, yet?

 

[docmauser1]

When you get as clear on parasites as Smedley was:[/size][/i]

Boy-scout drivel.

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

...

I have to wonder about some possible cognitive biases that may compromise the logic of some of your conclusions, however.

For example, when you say "the idealism of today cannot be retroactively applied to the application of circumstances of nearly a century ago", some who were alive at that time saw clearly the idealism of "the leaders/shapers of the new century that had been steeped in war."

Smedley Butler:

"Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

"For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket;

"Again they are choosing sides..."

(COMMENT)

Yes, MG Butler is often cited, and these are very famous quotations from him. But at the end of the day, he was a tool use to shape the world, and not the leader that used the tool. MG Butler had an epiphany. He understood that he was a pawn in a bigger game. And yes, in his case, there were many economic and capitalistic aspects to the game. But he still played the game.

• Back to Palestine and the decisions that were made in the early part of the 20th Century, by leaders that were influenced by 19th Century teachings:

There is a great quote from the Movie: The Matrix. In it there is a discussion between the Oracle and Neo (the hero); when the Oracle makes the following statement:

Oracle: I told you before. No one can see beyond a choice they don't understand, and I mean no one.

At the time these decisions were made, no one could see what would happen beyond the choices they made. (A variation on the Monday Morning Quarterback Theme.) Choices were made and the wheels were set in motion.

​

...Most respectfully, Rocco, I think you've chosen the losing side, in spite of all the evidence presented by the last four thousand years of "civilization."

(COMMENT)

The past 4 Millenium have very little to do with anything. It is like gravity, the farther two objects are apart, the less they tend to effect one another. In this case, the farther two event are apart in time, the less relevance they have.

Winning and losing, are not related to right and wrong, nor are the indicative of cultural achievements. I may actually have selected the "losing side" yet be absolutely correct that the bipolar conditions set in the dispute between the Israeli and Arab/Palestinian are improperly set on a determinant path of violence.

In the Movie series (Dune/Children of Dune), which is a parity on the Middle East conflict, you will notice that the underdog (Arabs) win-out in Dune, but that the in the follow-on, the outcome set must be destroyed (the winner wasn't correct), for the people or the civilization.

The outcome in the real Middle East is much the same. The Arab Palestinian, unable to be flexible enough to adapt and build a new civilization, adopts a strategy (a choice) that is built on an ever growing indigenous population that is unable to build and maintain a peaceful subculture in the region, but focuses on discontent, amplified dissatisfaction, and a foundation of violence and disruption. It (the violent, unproductive and dysfunctional culture of Palestinians, unable to make any useful contribution to humanity) may have been the victim at one time; unfairly treated, and deprived of the right of self-determination, but clearly has grown into multiple generations of institutionalized disruptive elements that have come to symbolize the malcontents that have no knowledge, skills and abilities to pick themselves up, duty off the dirt, shake loose the detractors and begin to build a nation. In over 100 years, they have never made a serious attempt at anything like that; yet one can look in any direction from the Palestinian center of mass and see other cultures that made significant developments.

You may be right, there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 4.5 million Palestinians, that in over a half of a century, couldn't achieve anything even remotely similar to the growth observed in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabian and Egypt. Nor could they even remotely achieve the level of success attained by that of Israel. Like a spoiled child, they have just started fights, over and over again, throwing temper tantums, and crying about how unfair life has been to them, wanting everything on a silver platter, as if they earned something or were entitled to something.

You may be right, that I - advocating that the Palestinian should adopt a peaceful strategy is the losing side. But it is not the "wrong" side.

• Recalling the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State,

• Considering it essential that all States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,

• Considering it equally essential that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter,

Who wins is not as near as important as --- who is right. When the Arab/Palestinian start to become a productive and beneficial culture of people and neighbors, then it will be time to take them seriously.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

When you get as clear on parasites as Smedley was:[/size][/i]

Boy-scout drivel.

What's a kosher synonym for "parasite"

"Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, Baron de Rothschild FRS[1] (8 February 1868 – 27 August 1937), a scion of the Rothschild family, was a British banker, politician, and zoologist."

Thanks.

 

[Hossfly]

When you get as clear on parasites as Smedley was:[/size][/i]

Boy-scout drivel.

What's a kosher synonym for "parasite"

"Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, Baron de Rothschild FRS[1] (8 February 1868 – 27 August 1937), a scion of the Rothschild family, was a British banker, politician, and zoologist."

Thanks.

Looks like Georgie Boy is back to one of his favorite topics again -- money and those who happened to have it while he never did. So tell us, Georgie Boy, what is the Islamic word for those who have all that oil money, build palaces galore, get their cars silver-plated, and still have money to fund terrorism?

 

[toastman]

Poor Georgie boy

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

I see this theme.

When you get as clear on parasites as Smedley was:[/size][/i]

Boy-scout drivel.

What's a kosher synonym for "parasite"

"Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, Baron de Rothschild FRS[1] (8 February 1868 – 27 August 1937), a scion of the Rothschild family, was a British banker, politician, and zoologist."

Thanks.

(QUESTIONS)

• Exactly what profit from the Middle East did the British banker, politician, and zoologist" make?

• Who profited, in the last half century (since the 1948 War), as a direct result from the evolution of the Middle East?

• There were the original decision makers from 1919, and the decision maker from 1948, and the decision makers after the 1973 War. What is the direct connection between them and how did they make a profit?

Tie this up for me with a bow. How does the conspiracy work? This is nearly a century old.

(THOUGHT)

Just imagine, given the accomplishments demonstrated by the Palestinians over the last 100 years, what the region would look like today if they had been given everything they fought for in the beginning. I suspect that it would not look anything like Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[docmauser1]

When you get as clear on parasites as Smedley was:[/size][/i]

Boy-scout drivel.

What's a kosher synonym for "parasite"?

Parasite boy-scout drivel?

 

[docmauser1]

Just imagine, given the accomplishments demonstrated by the Palestinians over the last 100 years, what the region would look like today if they had been given everything they fought for in the beginning.

More like over the last 49 years, and that's not much either minus bomb-belts and stuff, of course, and fighting for what wasn't theirs in the first place doesn't count. In memorable words of Winnie Churchill "Left to themselves, the Arabs of Palestine would not in a thousand years have taken effective steps towards the irrigation and electrification of Palestine. They would have been quite content to dwell - a handful of philosophic people - in wasted sun-drenched plains, letting the waters of the Jordan flow unbridled and unharnessed into the Dead Sea." Figures.

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

I see this theme.

Boy-scout drivel.

What's a kosher synonym for "parasite"

"Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, Baron de Rothschild FRS[1] (8 February 1868 – 27 August 1937), a scion of the Rothschild family, was a British banker, politician, and zoologist."

Thanks.

(QUESTIONS)

• Exactly what profit from the Middle East did the British banker, politician, and zoologist" make?

• Who profited, in the last half century (since the 1948 War), as a direct result from the evolution of the Middle East?

• There were the original decision makers from 1919, and the decision maker from 1948, and the decision makers after the 1973 War. What is the direct connection between them and how did they make a profit?

Tie this up for me with a bow. How does the conspiracy work? This is nearly a century old.

(THOUGHT)

Just imagine, given the accomplishments demonstrated by the Palestinians over the last 100 years, what the region would look like today if they had been given everything they fought for in the beginning. I suspect that it would not look anything like Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco...Happy Land Day

Just imagine what the Palestinians could have demonstrated if not for greedy Jews, capitalists, and, of course, all the many "good faith" gestures they've received from the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet.

 

[Hossfly]

georgephillip, et al,

I see this theme.

What's a kosher synonym for "parasite"

"Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, Baron de Rothschild FRS[1] (8 February 1868 – 27 August 1937), a scion of the Rothschild family, was a British banker, politician, and zoologist."

Thanks.

(QUESTIONS)

• Exactly what profit from the Middle East did the British banker, politician, and zoologist" make?

• Who profited, in the last half century (since the 1948 War), as a direct result from the evolution of the Middle East?

• There were the original decision makers from 1919, and the decision maker from 1948, and the decision makers after the 1973 War. What is the direct connection between them and how did they make a profit?

Tie this up for me with a bow. How does the conspiracy work? This is nearly a century old.

(THOUGHT)

Just imagine, given the accomplishments demonstrated by the Palestinians over the last 100 years, what the region would look like today if they had been given everything they fought for in the beginning. I suspect that it would not look anything like Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco...Happy Land Day

Just imagine what the Palestinians could have demonstrated if not for greedy Jews, capitalists, and, of course, all the many "good faith" gestures they've received from the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet.

Why not include all the greedy Muslims who invaded the countries of others and took over their land, Georgie Boy? If you think the Jews were so greedy (you must have had a Jewish landlord who didn't reduce the rent for you when you asked), have you ever looked at a map of the Arab world (and of course you could also look at a map of the entire Muslim world which would include much land in Southeast Asia)? For the life of me, I can't understand why Georgie Boy still lives in America since he is still spewing out "the greatest purveyor of violence." He should move to some country that he thinks is the least purveyor of violence where he might live happily after (where he could possibly live in a tent instead of an apartment).

 

[toastman]

I think Georgie boy got smacked in the head too maay time by the El Savadorians living in his poor shithole area. Poor Georgie

 

[varelse]

Israel was supposed to be the solution to the Jewish question.


Turns out it mostly causes more problems, and the Jews continue to be a problem everywhere else, more so now than ever, as it is they- for example, through the ADL, which push 'multiculturalism' on the Western nations (while naturally rejecting the concept for themselves)