Israel on Sunday confiscated nearly 1,000 acres of privately owned Palestinian land near an Israeli

[eagle1462010]

Name the acceptable plans from the Arabs from the end of WWI until now.....................

Look at the dang maps................the British were trying to as fair as humanly possible.................even going to pay concessions.......................

Why REJECT THEM when they were actually fair and GAVE plenty of land to the arabs.

 

[Phoenall]

Coyote, et al,

Yes --- this is your position; the position held by many.

Coyote, et al,

It is a form of political leverage.

Or is this just another form of collective punishment where the innocent get punished?

(COMMENT)

Just as sanctions and embargoes, which ultimately adversely impact all citizens, is political leverage (not collective punishment), so it is with Area "C" expansion.

Economic sanctions (as a tool of foreign policy) can be used for achieving political gains; or to apply political pressure to effect change. The two key supranational bodies to adopt sanctions measures are the United Nations (“UN”) and the European Union (“EU”). But in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, the objectives are localized and impact observable. The State of Israel appears to be expanding settlements (in Area "C") in the absence of good faith negotiations and progress relative to the "permanent status of negotiations" issues found in Article V of the Oslo Accords:

• Jerusalem,
• Refugees,
• Settlements,
• Security arrangements,
• Borders,
• Relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and
• Other issues of common interest.

Sanctions tend to take the form of restrictive/coercive measures. Measures that may be economic, diplomatic or cultural (sometimes military). The objective of Area "C" expansion is a non-violent way to demonstrate that the longer the Arab Palestinians, the greater the impact will be in terms of territorial control. They concept and applications are the same.

• The freezing of Palestinian funds.
• The withdrawal of externally provided financial services.
• Bans or restrictions on trade traffic.
• Bans or restrictions on internal travel and checkpoints.
• The expansion of Settlements.

These pressures are an attempt to:

• Effect a change in the conduct of the Palestinian Government and leadership.
• To place pressure on the general population of the State of Palestine, so that they population transfers that pressure onto the regime or leadership, to seriously address the "permanent status of negotiations" issues --- .
• To deter, prevent and suppress the financing of Jihadist and Fedayeen activities through a variety of Palestinian Terrorist.

UN and EU Sanctions are very similar in nature to the objective of Israeli Settlement Expansion. Historically, the use of economic sanctions alone have a poor track record. Between 1914 and 1990, various countries imposed economic sanctions in 116 cases. They failed to achieve their stated objectives in 66 percent of those cases and were at best only partially successful in most of the rest. The Israeli approach is slightly different, with the ratchet gradually taking more and more territory, effectively reducing the nation building potential. If the expansion has no impact on the Palestinians --- than it merely adds to the capital infrastructure of Israel. If it does have an impact, the hopefully the Palestinians will be eventually persuaded to come back to the negotiating table with a mind to actually craft a workable treaty of peace on the "permanent status of negotiations" issues.

Most Respectfully,
R

\

Rocco, while I (as always) appreciate your well thought out explanations - all I can see here is it is wrong. Very wrong. And it supports the arguments of those who claim that Israel just wants to steal land. It's happening and excuses get made for it. Then, if they Palestinians fight back - they are "terrorists".

And it isn't just the Palestinians who need to come back to the table - it's the Israeli's - with all their pre-conditions. In the meant time what is left for a state? And are non-Jews allowed to live in these new settlements? There's wrong here...and it's not just on the Palestinian side.

(COMMENT)

If this strategy --- at some point --- pressures the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) to the negotiating table --- then the strategy was successful; and the Palestinian will begin to repatriate Area "C" Israeli controlled territory.

If the HoAP never comes to the table, and the status quo remains with progressively more Area "C" ground coming under Israeli infrastructure improvements, then that is a positive economic impact; and the HoAP is still contained and quarantined for security purposes.

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you feel this is right and just Rocco?

The Israeli's demand "Pre-Conditions to Peace" that the Palestinians must accept while simultaneously rejecting the Palestinians pre-conditions. Netanyahu made one honest comment in his campaign - he has no intention, and never had any intention of a two state solution.

Where does that leave things for the Palestinians?

What pre conditions to peace are these then, or are you talking about items to be negotiated under the terms of the UN charter and resolutions the arab muslims agreed to ? Silly things like mutual borders, defence, Israel rights under International law, the right to be recognised as THE ONLY JEWISH STATE as embodied in International Law.
Unlike the arab muslims demands that must be met before they would even think about possibly, maybe sitting down I the same continent with the Zionist entity to discuss their surrender terms


He actually said while the threat of islamonazi terrorism from IS was on the cards he could not in all faith agree to a two state solution and put IS on the borders of Israel.

 

[fanger]

Post a link, I''l have a look and let you know

The Jews rejected the plans too

 

[Phoenall]

Would not prove anything apart from you will believe anything as long as it Racially abuses the Jews.

You're doing everything you can to get people to believe such non-sense. It doesn't matter what the issue is, or what the subject is about, your response is always the same. Do you not realize how stupid you look giving the same answer for any question?

When you make such statements as NUKE ISREAL what are all the decent people out there to think of your outbursts . You never miss an opportunity to attack the Jews or Israel, leading to only one conclusion YOU HATE THE JEWS and only you can tell the world why

 

[Phoenall]

Link to the source of your quote, phoney

The Testimony of Arafat s Nazi Uncle in 1937

 

[eagle1462010]

UN Resolution 181 - The Partition Plan

The resolution recognized the need for immediate Jewish statehood (and a parallel Arab state), but the blueprint for peace became a moot issue when the Arabs refused to accept it.Subsequently, de facto [In Latin: realities] on the ground in the wake of Arab aggression (and Israel’s survival) became the basis for UN efforts to bring peace.

Aware of Arabs’ past aggression, Resolution 181, in paragraph C, calls on the Security Council to:

“Determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the settlement envisaged by this resolution.” [italics by author]

The ones who sought to alter the settlement envisioned in Resolution 181 by force, were the Arabs who threatenedbloodshed if the United Nations was to adopt the Resolution:

“The [British] Government of Palestine fear that strife in Palestine will be greatly intensified when the Mandate is terminated, and that the international status of the United Nations Commission will mean little or nothing to the Arabs in Palestine, to whom the killing of Jews now transcends all other considerations. Thus, the Commission will be faced with the problem of how to avert certain bloodshed on a very much wider scale than prevails at present. … The Arabs have made it quite clear and have told the Palestine government that they do not propose to co-operate or to assist the Commission, and that, far from it, they propose to attack and impedeits work in every possible way. We have no reason to suppose that they do not mean what they say.” [2] [italics by author]

Arabs’ intentions and deeds did not fare better after Resolution 181 was adopted:

“Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine; that the States members of the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine." [3]

The conclusion:

“Having constituted a Special Committee and instructed it to investigate all questions and issues relevant to the problem of Palestine, and to prepare proposals for the solution of the problem, and having received and examined the report of the Special Committee (document A/364). … Recommends to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future Government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;” [italics by author].

In the late 1990s, more than 50 years after Resolution 181 was rejected by the Arab world, Arab leaders suddenly recommended to the General Assembly that UN Resolution 181 be resurrected as the basis for a peace agreement.There is no foundation for such a notion.

Resolution 181 was the last of a series of recommendations that had been drawn up over the years by the Mandator and by international commissions, plans designed to reach an historic compromise between Arabs and Jews in western Palestine. The first was in 1922 when Great Britain unilaterally partitioned Palestine, which did not satisfy the Arabs who wanted the entire country to be Arab. Resolution 181 followed such proposals as the Peel Commission (1937); the Woodhead Commission (1938); two 1946 proposals that championed a bi-national state; one proposed by the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in April 1946 based on a single state with equal powers for Jews and Arabs; and the Morrison-Grady Plan raised in July 1946 which recommended a federal state with two provinces – one Jewish, one Arab. Every scheme since 1922 was rejected by the Arab side, including decidedly pro-Arab ones merely because these plans recognized Jews as a nation and gave Jewish citizens of Mandate Palestine political representation.

 

[Phoenall]

Continued attacks against Israel by Hamas makes Peace Impossible.

Hams, Hezballah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, and etc. refusing to accept Israel's right to exist makes Peace Impossible.

There will never be Peace under these conditions............

NEVER.

Nor will there be peace with continued land confiscation for new settlements.

Read the Oslo accords before making LYING statements as the one above.

 

[fanger]

That is an opinion written by one Eli E. Hertz, The same guy who drew the fantasy maps you posted earlier

Heres a link A RES 181 II of 29 November 1947 directly to UN Resolution 181

 

[Phoenall]

Continued attacks against Israel by Hamas makes Peace Impossible.

Hams, Hezballah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, and etc. refusing to accept Israel's right to exist makes Peace Impossible.

There will never be Peace under these conditions............

NEVER.

The occupation started a full 37 years before the first rocket was ever fired.

While the wholesale murder of Jews in the name of islam started as far back as 635 C.E. and has carried on to this day. Why do you ignore the terrorist bombings that precluded the occupation, the armed aggression from 3 arab muslim nations that led to the 1967 war. Would doing so show your Jew hatred or your terrorist sympathies that would prove you are an ignorant left wing moron.
The rockets started after the arab muslims were encased inside a barrier stopping them from planting bombs to mass murder Israeli children. It worked so well the arab muslims complained to the UN about the separation barrier stopping them from killing children.

 

[fanger]

Continued attacks against Israel by Hamas makes Peace Impossible.

Hams, Hezballah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, and etc. refusing to accept Israel's right to exist makes Peace Impossible.

There will never be Peace under these conditions............

NEVER.

Nor will there be peace with continued land confiscation for new settlements.

Read the Oslo accords before making LYING statements as the one above.

The cartoon is from IDFBLOG, hardly impartial

 

[Phoenall]

i don't pander to lying anti-semitic loons. it would only encourage you freaks.

Which means you can't back up what you say, so you personally attack people who disagree with you by calling them names.

Why would I hate Jews? What have I said, that has anything to do with Judaism, you disingenuous fuck?

You can't answer that. We both know you can't. You got to be a real dumbass, not being able to explain the things you say.

Only you an answer the WHY, we can only answer the how and what. We don't know what has happened in your past to make you hate the Jews so much, but we can say that your hatred shows in just about every one of your posts. So why don't you enlighten us and tell WHY YOU HATE THE JEWS ?

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Phoenall]

The War started before Israel even became a country..............with clashes and fighting from the beginning of the century...............

The War against Israel as a country has never ended from the day it was recognized and formed.

The war started when Zionists migrated in the hostility with their racist, apartheid policies.

So the many millions of Jews mass murdered from 635 C.E. by arab muslims have nothing to do with the problems. The verses in the Koran and commands in the hadith telling the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS" have nothing to do with the problem. Just the legal migration at the request of the legal land owners to the Jews to settle and make Palestine flourish again.

Now say that you don't show Jew hatred in this post. ( swap Jew, Israeli, Zionist and any other name you want into your post above as they all mean the same thing to filthy white supremacist racists like you )

 

[Phoenall]

That is an opinion written by one Eli E. Hertz, The same guy who drew the fantasy maps you posted earlier

Heres a link A RES 181 II of 29 November 1947 directly to UN Resolution 181

And here is a link to the3 map of San Remo 1920

 

[montelatici]

The War started before Israel even became a country..............with clashes and fighting from the beginning of the century...............

The War against Israel as a country has never ended from the day it was recognized and formed.

The war started when Zionists migrated in the hostility with their racist, apartheid policies.

So the many millions of Jews mass murdered from 635 C.E. by arab muslims have nothing to do with the problems. The verses in the Koran and commands in the hadith telling the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS" have nothing to do with the problem. Just the legal migration at the request of the legal land owners to the Jews to settle and make Palestine flourish again.

Now say that you don't show Jew hatred in this post. ( swap Jew, Israeli, Zionist and any other name you want into your post above as they all mean the same thing to filthy white supremacist racists like you )

Can you point to any source that claims that Muslims murdered "millions" of Jews since 635 CE. I doubt there were ever "millions" of Jews in the Middle East after the Roman expulsion of Jews from Palestine. Christians did, in fact, kill millions of Jews, but those Jews were in Europe.

 

[fanger]

That is an opinion written by one Eli E. Hertz, The same guy who drew the fantasy maps you posted earlier

Heres a link A RES 181 II of 29 November 1947 directly to UN Resolution 181

And here is a link to the3 map of San Remo 1920

I doubt if that map is from 1920, as saudi Arabia did not exist at that time,

In 1932, the two kingdoms of the Hejaz and Najd were united as the 'Kingdom of Saudi Arabia'.
History of Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Coyote]

Continued attacks against Israel by Hamas makes Peace Impossible.

Hams, Hezballah, the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, and etc. refusing to accept Israel's right to exist makes Peace Impossible.

There will never be Peace under these conditions............

NEVER.

Nor will there be peace with continued land confiscation for new settlements.

Read the Oslo accords before making LYING statements as the one above.

It's not a lie. Land confiscation in this manner is theft.

How would you feel if it was YOUR property? How would you feel if the new "settlement" built on YOUR property denied you admittence because you were of the wrong ethnicity?

 

[Coyote]

So it's ok for a government to confiscate privately owned land?

Privately owned by whom, exactly?

The Palestinians that it was confiscated from (according to the article).

 

[Coyote]

Okay...........I'm spamming the thread with the History of the Region...............because I'm tired of the Lies..............

Primarily because the History is credible to the argument against those saying the Land was STOLEN...................

The Land was STOLEN.............by the TURKS...........................killing all who didn't like..............

The Massacres began well before WWI...............So much so that Western powers were ready to go to War against the Ottomans long before WWI...................

It was the systematic GENOCIDE of all INFIDELS of the time by the TURKS.................It was simply how they ROLLED BACK THEN.................

So today they can say................................SEE THERE WAS NO JEWS AND CHRISTIANS THERE......................They are correct...............THE TURKS SAW TO THAT..............They KILLED THEM ALL...............................

So to all you MUSLIM APOLOGISTS..................PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT.

Readers Digest Version: Because various groups in ancient history over ran various lands and killed a bunch of people it's ok for people in modern (supposedly civilized) times to do so now. What's the difference between Russia vis a vis the Ukraine and Israel vis a vis Palestine? Not much. Except that Russia at least lets the people stay in the conquored territory.

 

[Billo_Really]

Chapter IX. - The Land

A summary of land legislation enacted during the Civil Administration shows the efforts made to fulfil the Mandatory obligation in this matter. The Commission point to serious difficulties in connection with the legislation proposed by the Palestine Government for the protection of small owners. The Palestine Order in Council and, if necessary, the Mandate should be amended to permit of legislation empowering the High Commissioner to prohibit the transfer of land in any stated area to Jews, so that the obligation to safeguard the right and position of the Arabs may be carried out. Until survey and settlement are complete, the Commission would welcome the prohibition of the sale of isolated and comparatively small plots of land to Jews. They would prefer larger schemes for the rearrangement of proprietorship under Government supervision. They favour the proposal for the creation of special Public Utility Companies to undertake such development schemes subject to certain conditions.

An expert Committee should be appointed to draw up a Land Code.

Recommendations are made with a view to the expediting of settlement (the need for which is paramount) and to the improvement of settlement procedure.

The present system of Land Courts is contributory to delay. Until survey and settlement are complete there should be two or three Land Courts separate from the District Courts and each under a single British Judge.

Up till now the Arab cultivator has benefited on the whole both from the work of the British Administration and the presence of Jews in the country, but the greatest care must now be exercised to see that in the event of further sales of land by Arabs to Jews the rights of any Arab tenants or cultivators are preserved. Thus, alienation of land should only be allowed where it is possible to replace extensive by intensive cultivation. In the hill districts there can be no expectation of finding accommodation for any large increase in the rural population. At present, and for many years to come, the Mandatory Power should not attempt to facilitate the close settlement of the Jews in the hill districts generally.

The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.

Legislation vesting surface water in the High Commissioner is essential. An increase in staff and equipment for exploratory investigations with a view to increasing irrigation is recommended. The scheme for the development of the Huleh district is commended.

The Commission fully realize the desirability of afforestation on a large scale of a long term forest policy, but, having regard to their conclusion as to the scarcity of land in the hills for the agricultural population, they cannot recommend a policy involving expropriation of cultivators on a large scale until other cultivable land or suitable employment on the land can be found for them. In the aggregate, however, a large amount of land is fit for afforestation but not for cultivation, and the Commission endorse a policy of afforestation of steep hillsides to prevent erosion the prevention of grazing on land fit for afforestation, and, where practicable, the establishment of village forests for the benefit of neighbouring cultivators.


aka.............they brought the Jews into the land..............DESERT................had them CULTIVATE IT..................make the Desert BLOOM.............made them pay for the Desert.................AND THEN SAID LOOK............The JEWS ARE GETTING ALL THE GOOD LAND....................

It was the JEWS who made the DESERT BLOOM after they bought it...................

To a point.................The MUSLIMS WANTED TO STEAL THE LAND JEWS HAD BOUGHT AND UPGRADED IN THE DEAL..................

and as already stated they Muslims stated THEY WANTED ALL THE LAND AND NO JEWISH STATE AT ALL.................

First off, do you realize, in your own argument, a reference is made to preserving the "rights" of the indigenous, non-Jewish population.

"... the Mandate should be amended to permit of legislation empowering the High Commissioner to prohibit the transfer of land in any stated area to Jews, so that the obligation to safeguard the right and position of the Arabs may be carried out."​

That "right", is Article 22 of the League of Nations, the right to self-determination. Any population anywhere on the globe, has an inalienable right to determine how they are to be governed. And Zionism, strips them of that right.

Secondly, this part of your argument is a total lie ....

"The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought."​

The land was not barren. Arabs were the majority land owners. They owned 90% of all the land in Palestine.

And third, how the fuck can you have an increase in Arab population, during a Jewish migration?

"The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population."​

Chapter IX. - The Land

A summary of land legislation enacted during the Civil Administration shows the efforts made to fulfil the Mandatory obligation in this matter. The Commission point to serious difficulties in connection with the legislation proposed by the Palestine Government for the protection of small owners. The Palestine Order in Council and, if necessary, the Mandate should be amended to permit of legislation empowering the High Commissioner to prohibit the transfer of land in any stated area to Jews, so that the obligation to safeguard the right and position of the Arabs may be carried out. Until survey and settlement are complete, the Commission would welcome the prohibition of the sale of isolated and comparatively small plots of land to Jews. They would prefer larger schemes for the rearrangement of proprietorship under Government supervision. They favour the proposal for the creation of special Public Utility Companies to undertake such development schemes subject to certain conditions.

An expert Committee should be appointed to draw up a Land Code.

Recommendations are made with a view to the expediting of settlement (the need for which is paramount) and to the improvement of settlement procedure.

The present system of Land Courts is contributory to delay. Until survey and settlement are complete there should be two or three Land Courts separate from the District Courts and each under a single British Judge.

Up till now the Arab cultivator has benefited on the whole both from the work of the British Administration and the presence of Jews in the country, but the greatest care must now be exercised to see that in the event of further sales of land by Arabs to Jews the rights of any Arab tenants or cultivators are preserved. Thus, alienation of land should only be allowed where it is possible to replace extensive by intensive cultivation. In the hill districts there can be no expectation of finding accommodation for any large increase in the rural population. At present, and for many years to come, the Mandatory Power should not attempt to facilitate the close settlement of the Jews in the hill districts generally.

The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.

Legislation vesting surface water in the High Commissioner is essential. An increase in staff and equipment for exploratory investigations with a view to increasing irrigation is recommended. The scheme for the development of the Huleh district is commended.

The Commission fully realize the desirability of afforestation on a large scale of a long term forest policy, but, having regard to their conclusion as to the scarcity of land in the hills for the agricultural population, they cannot recommend a policy involving expropriation of cultivators on a large scale until other cultivable land or suitable employment on the land can be found for them. In the aggregate, however, a large amount of land is fit for afforestation but not for cultivation, and the Commission endorse a policy of afforestation of steep hillsides to prevent erosion the prevention of grazing on land fit for afforestation, and, where practicable, the establishment of village forests for the benefit of neighbouring cultivators.


aka.............they brought the Jews into the land..............DESERT................had them CULTIVATE IT..................make the Desert BLOOM.............made them pay for the Desert.................AND THEN SAID LOOK............The JEWS ARE GETTING ALL THE GOOD LAND....................

It was the JEWS who made the DESERT BLOOM after they bought it...................

To a point.................The MUSLIMS WANTED TO STEAL THE LAND JEWS HAD BOUGHT AND UPGRADED IN THE DEAL..................

and as already stated they Muslims stated THEY WANTED ALL THE LAND AND NO JEWISH STATE AT ALL.................

So the problem wasn't the 100,000 Jews that were migrating into the area, it was the 10,000 Arabs that migrated in during that same period?