Israel’s Big Lie of “Self-Defence”

[hadit]

Taking land from the natives is always a problem.

And they wouldn't have had to if they were not attacked from that land. There was no nation in that land to negotiate with, and the only powers that claimed to control it were adamant that their only goal was to eliminate the new state of Israel. As we have seen since, they have no concern for the people living there and have been using them as human shields to hide behind.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Taking land from the natives is always a problem.

I know. Let's reverse the muslim invasion.
Back to Arabia with all of them.
Return Constantinople!

 

[Roudy]

Israel has been funding Hamas for decades.

Another delusional response from a terrorist sympathizer.

Hamas is on the Iranian payroll Fatima. But don’t worry, they are now surrounding them, including their headquarters under the hospital and will eliminate them from the face of the earth.

 

[Roudy]

Taking land from the natives is always a problem.

Ha ha ha. Arab squatters aren’t natives.

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".​

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -​

 

[Billo_Really]

You’re entitled to your opinion, however idiotic and morally bankrupt it is.

Are saying Israel is not the biggest military power in the ME?

 

[marvin martian]

An occupier does not have the right to use arms in “self-defence”.​

There are four reasons why Israel cannot cite a legal right to self-defence in response to Palestinian violence.

First and foremost is that the ability of a very strong military power to achieve anything defensive by the attrition of a much weaker military power is spurious and leads into the genocidal logic of attempting to deprive a people of all capacity for violence.

The second reason is that Israel is actively contravening UN Security Council resolutions and the UN Charter is very clear on the fact that the right to self-defence exists “until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.” A state that works to thwart UNSC measures to maintain peace and security cannot logically be extended the unimpaired right to self defence.

On the third count Israel is an occupying power and the occupied have a legal right to armed resistance. It would be nonsensical to accord a legal right to use arms to defend against another’s legal resistance.

Fourthly, it would be equally paradoxical to allow each party to act in self-defence against each other’s acts of self defence. Thus one of the parties must be the aggressor. On several counts, not least its defiance of UNSC resolutions, Israel must be considered the aggressor.
Israel’s only legitimate way of defending itself begins with ending its occupation. Israelis have a right to life and they deserve peace and security as we all do, but they have no right to kill Palestinians and claim that they are pursuing those things.

Let's make no mistake, Israel is the aggressor! And it is committing genocide. According to Arnon Soffer...

“When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today … The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day..."

These words are shockingly Himmleresque in labelling a people animals; in stating that mass killing is neither choice nor desire, but necessity...

All the Israeli supporters at this website echo this theme that it is "necessary" to inflict all this damage on the Palestinian's. This is Germany in the 30's all over again!

Any leftists here want to disagree with this?

 

[Billo_Really]

They don’t occupy Gaza.

Oh yes they do.

 

[HeyNorm]

Oh yes they do.

Oh no they dont

 

[Shusha]

Any leftists here want to disagree with this?

Sure. I'm game.

Let's start with the fact that the attached article is an opinion piece with very little in the way of supporting documentation. Even where it quotes documents, such as Article 51 of the UN Charter, it does so solely in order to highlight it's own opinions.

Article 51​

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

The right of self-defense is an INHERENT right. Hamas (the government of Gaza) has conducted an armed attack against Israel. This invokes Israel's INHERENT right to self-defense.

The UN is an impotent body which is unable to "take measures necessary to maintain international peace and security". It can only comment on them. As it is, the UN has been unable to agree upon a Security Council Resolution in this case, and thus Israel's INHERENT right to self-defense remains intact.

If you would like to discuss other UNSC resolutions, please let me know which, specifically, and I will respond.



Israel does not occupy Gaza. An occupation, by definition, is where one State controls the territory of another State. Gaza was not and is not a State (though it could become one). Israel has no control over the governance of Gaza. Gaza is governed by Hamas. Borders are not occupation. Blockades are not occupation.

 

[Roudy]

Are saying Israel is not the biggest military power in the ME?

Are you saying that Hamas aren’t barbaric subhuman Palestinian terrorist animals?

 

[Roudy]

Oh yes they do.

Link? Last I checked Israel forcibly even removed its own citizens from Gaza in 2005 and gave them the keys. And look what they’ve done…built yet another islamic terrorist shithole.

 

[Billo_Really]

Link? Last I checked Israel forcibly even removed its own citizens from Gaza in 2005 and gave them the keys. And look what they’ve done…built yet another islamic terrorist shithole.

But because of the 16 year, immoral and illegal blockade of Gaza, Israel remained in "effective control" of the area, which satisfies the definition of an "occupation".

So, fuck off!

 

[HeyNorm]

But because of the 16 year, immoral and illegal blockade of Gaza, Israel remained in "effective control" of the area, which satisfies the definition of an "occupation".

So, fuck off!

Egypt also blockaded Gazas terrorists. Do they occupy Gaza?

It’s not an occupation dork.

So, as they say buttercup, Fuck off.

 

[Billo_Really]

Egypt also blockaded Gazas terrorists. Do they occupy Gaza?

It’s not an occupation dork.

So, as they say buttercup, Fuck off.

According to every fucking nation on the planet, it is an occupation, you fucking dolt! Show me one country that says that the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza, is not an occupation. Go ahead, fuckhead, pony up the proof!

 

[Roudy]

But because of the 16 year, immoral and illegal blockade of Gaza, Israel remained in "effective control" of the area, which satisfies the definition of an "occupation".

So, fuck off!

Says the loudmouth attention whore who doesn’t know that the southern border of Gaza is with Egypt, which they are completely in control of. So there is no ”16 year immoral and illegal blockade“ of Gaza by Israel. Hamas completely governed and controlled the area. You are just a fool spewing the usual Palestinian lies and bulshit.

 

[Billo_Really]

Says the loudmouth attention whore who doesn’t know that the southern border of Gaza is with Egypt, which they are completely in control of. So there is no ”16 year immoral and illegal blockade“ of Gaza by Israel. Hamas completely governed and controlled the area. You are just a fool spewing the usual Palestinian lies and bulshit.

Fuck you, asshole!

Israel/OPT: Israel must lift illegal and inhumane blockade on Gaza as power plant runs out of fuel​

“The Israeli authorities must immediately restore Gaza’s electricity supply and suspend the increased restrictions imposed as a result of the Minister of Defence’s order of 9 October 2023 and lift its illegal 16-year blockade on the Gaza Strip. The collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population amounts to a war crime – it is cruel and inhumane. As the occupying power, Israel has a clear obligation under international law to ensure the basic needs of Gaza’s civilian population are met,” said Amnesty International’s Secretary General Agnès Callamard.

Que pasa, mutha?

 

[surada]

I know. Let's reverse the muslim invasion.
Back to Arabia with all of them.
Return Constantinople!

The Arabs don't have Constantinople?

 

[Roudy]

Fuck you, asshole!

Israel/OPT: Israel must lift illegal and inhumane blockade on Gaza as power plant runs out of fuel​

“The Israeli authorities must immediately restore Gaza’s electricity supply and suspend the increased restrictions imposed as a result of the Minister of Defence’s order of 9 October 2023 and lift its illegal 16-year blockade on the Gaza Strip. The collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population amounts to a war crime – it is cruel and inhumane. As the occupying power, Israel has a clear obligation under international law to ensure the basic needs of Gaza’s civilian population are met,” said Amnesty International’s Secretary General Agnès Callamard.

Que pasa, mutha?

Up yours.

Who controls the Rafah crossing and why is it so important to Gaza?

The Egyptian-controlled Rafah crossing is Gaza's main lifeline to the outside world that is not run by Israel.

www.reuters.com

Nov 1 (Reuters) - The Egyptian-controlled Rafah crossing is Gaza's main lifeline to the outside world that is not run by Israel.


Gaza Strip
The Egypt–Gaza border is the 12 kilometres (7.5 mi) long borderbetween the Gaza Strip and Egypt. There is a buffer zone along the border which is about 14 kilometres (8.7 mi) long.

The Rafah Border Crossing is the only crossing point between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. It is located on the international border that was confirmed in the 1979 Egypt–Israel peace treaty.

 

[surada]

Link? Last I checked Israel forcibly even removed its own citizens from Gaza in 2005 and gave them the keys. And look what they’ve done…built yet another islamic terrorist shithole.

The US paid for them to move.$2 billion dollars.. or 200,000-400,000 per settler family.

 

[Billo_Really]

Up yours.

Who controls the Rafah crossing and why is it so important to Gaza?

The Egyptian-controlled Rafah crossing is Gaza's main lifeline to the outside world that is not run by Israel.

www.reuters.com

Nov 1 (Reuters) - The Egyptian-controlled Rafah crossing is Gaza's main lifeline to the outside world that is not run by Israel.


Gaza Strip
The Egypt–Gaza border is the 12 kilometres (7.5 mi) long borderbetween the Gaza Strip and Egypt. There is a buffer zone along the border which is about 14 kilometres (8.7 mi) long.

The Rafah Border Crossing is the only crossing point between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. It is located on the international border that was confirmed in the 1979 Egypt–Israel peace treaty.

We're not talking about Egyptian atrocities.