Israel’s Big Lie of “Self-Defence”

[USAF 2023]

He comprehends it just fine. He just can't admit it because it fails his own "can't take territory by conquest" test. And it fails the "peace treaty" test since we all know where the actual borders between Jordan/Egypt and Israel are. And it fails the "Palestinian self-determination" test, which we haven't even started talking about.

The "1967 borders" argument is absolutely untenable from any sort of valid legal perspective. And yet it has become a useful forgery to continue to demonize Israel.

Actually, Israel is maintaining those Borders with Jordan and Egypt

 

[Shusha]

I'd also like to add this to the conversation: The "1967 borders" are a boot on the neck of both the Israelis and the Palestinians in terms of creating a solution to the conflict.

Let's start with the basic philosophy held by "most of the world", as Billo_Really likes to claim:

Self-determination for the Jewish people and self-determination for the Palestinian people
Statehood and sovereignty for each on some portion of the land
Contiguous territory
Each State has some portion of their population of the other ethnic group (possibly as dual citizens)
Security and the right to defend themselves
Economic partnerships
Fair and equal access to Holy places

There are still a lot of concerns and details to work out, but if we started there, instead of a reset to 1967, we'd have a much better chance of solving the conflict. (Or at least we did before October 7. I don't know how Israel is going to get past the unspeakable atrocity committed against them on that day. Especially, when the world response is "Israel is not permitted to defend itself". It really does feel like a global endorsement of a second Holocaust against the Jewish people.)

 

[USAF 2023]

Hospitals are off limits under any condition. But you do make a fine German.

Maybe they shouldn’t be building their control centers, tunnels under Hospitals sacrificing their own. You would do very well in Hamas

 

[surada]

Has Hamas, or any of the other groups claiming to lead the Palestinians, EVER accepted a two-state solution? Be honest.

Yes. In 2002 all Arab states signed on the Saudi peace initiative.

 

[frigidweirdo]

An occupier does not have the right to use arms in “self-defence”.​

There are four reasons why Israel cannot cite a legal right to self-defence in response to Palestinian violence.

First and foremost is that the ability of a very strong military power to achieve anything defensive by the attrition of a much weaker military power is spurious and leads into the genocidal logic of attempting to deprive a people of all capacity for violence.

The second reason is that Israel is actively contravening UN Security Council resolutions and the UN Charter is very clear on the fact that the right to self-defence exists “until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.” A state that works to thwart UNSC measures to maintain peace and security cannot logically be extended the unimpaired right to self defence.

On the third count Israel is an occupying power and the occupied have a legal right to armed resistance. It would be nonsensical to accord a legal right to use arms to defend against another’s legal resistance.

Fourthly, it would be equally paradoxical to allow each party to act in self-defence against each other’s acts of self defence. Thus one of the parties must be the aggressor. On several counts, not least its defiance of UNSC resolutions, Israel must be considered the aggressor.
Israel’s only legitimate way of defending itself begins with ending its occupation. Israelis have a right to life and they deserve peace and security as we all do, but they have no right to kill Palestinians and claim that they are pursuing those things.

Let's make no mistake, Israel is the aggressor! And it is committing genocide. According to Arnon Soffer...

“When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today … The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day..."

These words are shockingly Himmleresque in labelling a people animals; in stating that mass killing is neither choice nor desire, but necessity...

All the Israeli supporters at this website echo this theme that it is "necessary" to inflict all this damage on the Palestinian's. This is Germany in the 30's all over again!

Why are we talking about rights here?

Does the US not have the right to defend itself because it took over the land from the Native Americans?

 

[surada]

Why are we talking about rights here?

Does the US not have the right to defend itself because it took over the land from the Native Americans?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Any point to your posting of a video?

 

[surada]

Any point to your posting of a video?

Listen to what prince Turki says. He's a good man. He was also head of Saudi intelligence for 20 years.

 

[USAF 2023]

Yes. In 2002 all Arab states signed on the Saudi peace initiative.

Another lie. The Initiative calls for “ Right of Return “ which would eventually for all practical purposes wipe Israel off the map and annex it to the Palestinian State
What she doesn’t tell you is that the PLO FORMALLY announced the Jews had no rights to the Western Wall. Why would Israel agree to its own suicide? Better yet; What’s to stop the PLO from doing what Jordan did?

 

[USAF 2023]

Hamas official says group aims to repeat Oct. 7 onslaught many times to destroy Israel

For those who want to know why Israel won't " negotiate" to go back to "borders" that were never recognized before this is the answer

 

[surada]

Another lie. The Initiative calls for “ Right of Return “ which would eventually for all practical purposes wipe Israel off the map and annex it to the Palestinian State
What she doesn’t tell you is that the PLO FORMALLY announced the Jews had no rights to the Western Wall. Why would Israel agree to its own suicide? Better yet; What’s to stop the PLO from doing what Jordan did?

The initiative offers normalisation of relations by the Arab world with Israel, in return for a full withdrawal by Israel from the occupied territories (including the West Bank, Gaza, the Golan Heights, and Lebanon), with the possibility of comparable and mutual agreed minor swaps of the land between Israel and Palestine, a "just settlement" of the Palestinian refugee problem based on UN Resolution 194, and the establishment of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital.[2] The Initiative was initially overshadowed by the Passover massacre, a major Palestinian attack that took place on 27 March 2002, the day before the Initiative was published.[3]

The Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat immediately embraced the initiative.[4] His successor Mahmoud Abbas also supported the plan and officially asked U.S. President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy.[5] Islamist political party Hamas, the elected government of the Gaza Strip, was deeply divided,[6] with most factions rejecting the plan.[1] The Israeli government under Ariel Sharon rejected the initiative as a "non-starter"[7] because it required Israel to withdraw to pre-June 1967 borders.[8] In 2015, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed tentative support for the Initiative,[9] but in 2018, he rejected it as a basis for future negotiations with the Palestinians.[10]
Wiki

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel shows cache of weapons at embattled Gaza hospital

For those who say Hospitals are off limits; I say TOUGH S..T !!

 

[USAF 2023]

https://www.blabber.buzz/buzztube?vId=1053916-watch-hamas-stole-humanitarian-support-from-their-own-hospital&utm_source=mobile&utm_medium=content-rec&utm_term=cr-2

There will be NO COMMENT from Pro Pal kool Aid Drinkers

 

[USAF 2023]

 

[USAF 2023]

https://www.google.com/search?q=You+Tube+Hamas+preventing+Gaza+from+getting+fuel&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Deliberately killing their own people

 

[surada]

Saudi peace initiative.

The Arab Peace Initiative returns. Will it supplant the Abraham Accords?

Although the Abraham Accords have been the main focus of Arab-Israeli peace-making since they were signed, the Arab Peace Initiative (API), introduced by the late Saudi King Abdullah 20 years ago, remains relevant and may be the better reflection of a path forward for Middle East peace

www.mei.edu

Complete Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in 1967, including the Golan Heights, based on United Nations Security Council Resolutions (UNSCRs) 242 and 338;

A just settlement of the Palestinian refugee question on the basis of UNSCR 194; and

Recognition of East Jerusalem as the capital of an independent Palestinian state.

In exchange for those measures, the member states of the Arab League would:

Declare an end to the Israeli-Arab conflict, entering into a peace agreement with Israel; and

Establish normal relations with the State of Israel.

Thus, the initiative is, in fact, a basic formula outlining principles for negotiations and a political settlement but one that leaves maneuvering room for different meanings and practical solutions.

For example, it was determined that the solution to the “Palestinian refugee problem” should be “agreed upon.”

Another example is the lack of a demand for the evacuation of all Israeli settlements in the West Bank, which is intended to leave room for flexibility regarding arrangements for the blocks bordering Israel. Indeed, Saudi Foreign Minister Saud Al Faisal noted in 2007 that the member states would have “to take notice of new developments, which require additions and developments in whatever is offered.”

As only 10 of the Arab League’s member states were present at the Beirut Summit, the API was reintroduced at the 2007 Riyadh Summit and unanimously endorsed by the member states. (Syria and Lebanon objected to some aspects of the initiative but supported the document.

The Hamas representative abstained.) It remains to this day the single peace plan agreed by all members of the Arab League.

The varied Israeli response versus support from the international community

Israeli political leaders have addressed the API in a variety of ways since it was first introduced. Ariel Sharon, the prime minister at the time, flatly rejected the proposal on the grounds that it would require Israel to accept a large number of Palestinian refugees and that it crossed Israeli “red lines.” Nevertheless, subsequent Israeli responses have been more ambivalent. The late Israeli President Shimon Peres welcomed the plan, and then-Prime Minister Ehud Olmert termed it a “revolutionary change,” while rejecting the elements related to refugee returns.

For his part, former head of government Benjamin Netanyahu has offered a variety of opinions on the plan over the years, rejecting it in 2007, calling it as a “general idea … good” in 2015, but then rejecting it again as a basis for negotiations in 2018.

Continued

 

[USAF 2023]

The initiative offers normalisation of relations by the Arab world with Israel, in return for a full withdrawal by Israel from the occupied territories (including the West Bank, Gaza, the Golan Heights, and Lebanon), with the possibility of comparable and mutual agreed minor swaps of the land between Israel and Palestine, a "just settlement" of the Palestinian refugee problem based on UN Resolution 194, and the establishment of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital.[2] The Initiative was initially overshadowed by the Passover massacre, a major Palestinian attack that took place on 27 March 2002, the day before the Initiative was published.[3]

The Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat immediately embraced the initiative.[4] His successor Mahmoud Abbas also supported the plan and officially asked U.S. President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy.[5] Islamist political party Hamas, the elected government of the Gaza Strip, was deeply divided,[6] with most factions rejecting the plan.[1] The Israeli government under Ariel Sharon rejected the initiative as a "non-starter"[7] because it required Israel to withdraw to pre-June 1967 borders.[8] In 2015, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed tentative support for the Initiative,[9] but in 2018, he rejected it as a basis for future negotiations with the Palestinians.[10]
Wiki

Abbas hardens his stance on Palestinian ‘right of return’

In overlooked weekend speech, Palestinian leader also declares that 'millions of heroes are marching to Jerusalem'

www.timesofisrael.com

What she doesn't tell you he demanded UNCONDITIONAL Right of Return which in Theory could be Millions

 

[USAF 2023]

BREAKING: Woman slaughtered and paraded around naked in the back of Hamas pickup truck identified as German-Israeli woman in country to attend music festival for peace

Shani Louk’s first cousin reportedly made the confirmation.

humanevents.com

They are nothing but SAVAGES . Keep up with the bombardment

 

[USAF 2023]

The initiative offers normalisation of relations by the Arab world with Israel, in return for a full withdrawal by Israel from the occupied territories (including the West Bank, Gaza, the Golan Heights, and Lebanon), with the possibility of comparable and mutual agreed minor swaps of the land between Israel and Palestine, a "just settlement" of the Palestinian refugee problem based on UN Resolution 194, and the establishment of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital.[2] The Initiative was initially overshadowed by the Passover massacre, a major Palestinian attack that took place on 27 March 2002, the day before the Initiative was published.[3]

The Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat immediately embraced the initiative.[4] His successor Mahmoud Abbas also supported the plan and officially asked U.S. President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy.[5] Islamist political party Hamas, the elected government of the Gaza Strip, was deeply divided,[6] with most factions rejecting the plan.[1] The Israeli government under Ariel Sharon rejected the initiative as a "non-starter"[7] because it required Israel to withdraw to pre-June 1967 borders.[8] In 2015, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed tentative support for the Initiative,[9] but in 2018, he rejected it as a basis for future negotiations with the Palestinians.[10]
Wiki

Try to educate yourself. Abbas swore he would not give up ( paraphrasing) one inch of Palestinian Land. He also said that “ Right of Return “ was NOT up for debate or compromise, Israel having any claims to the Jewish Quarter” was not even put on the table

 

[USAF 2023]

Try to educate yourself. Abbas swore he would not give up ( paraphrasing) one inch of Palestinian Land. He also said that “ Right of Return “ was NOT up for debate or compromise, Israel having any claims to the Jewish Quarter” was not even put on the table

Forgot one thing; Abbas urged the UN to suspend Israel's membership unless it implements resolutions establishing separate Jewish AND Arab States AND allows for " Right of Return"
TWO STATE SOLUTION?? LOL!!!! NOT A CHANCE IN HELL