Israel's War Against Hamas - Updates

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ How much reaches needy civilians, how much is stolen by Hamas. All of these only helps Hamas to not release the hostages or surrender ]

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Wasted lives with every day education of hatred of Jews and the lie that Israel belongs to Muslims]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

"Yes, you can march and protest with passion…

You can demand the protection of civilian life……but no, you cannot call for violent Jihad.

There is no “context” in which it can be acceptable to beam antisemitic tropes onto Big Ben in the middle of a vote on Israel/Gaza.

And there can be no cause you can use to justify the support of a proscribed terrorist group, like Hamas.

Yes, you can freely criticise the actions of this government, or indeed any government: that is a fundamental democratic right.

But no, you cannot use that as an excuse to call for the eradication of a State – or any kind of hatred or antisemitism."

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

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[Sixties Fan]

 

[Grau]

that's nice. I have time living there and studying and teaching about it.

I have not seen this level of gaslighting and outright lies as I have regarding the attacks on Israel online.

Yes, it deniable because your claim wasn't about people who lived there in 1900. Your claim was about "native". Jews, Christians and Muslims have lived in the region for a long time, and otehr Jews have been moving there for a lot longer than you seem to understand. Sadly, the jewish population was often terrorized there by a variety of ruling groups even though they were the native population.



Who is asserting that? Well before there was a Hamas, there were other terrorists who caused carnage in the region such as the PLO.

Let's assume that the history is as you state it. Then Israel's error empowered Hamas. And now Hamas's error is putting Arabs at risk and it is delusional to blame Israel for responding to an attack by the ruling power in Gaza, no matter how they got there.

The violence comes because Arabs fire rockets, blow up buses and kill people sleeping in their beds and then try to blame "settlers" who respond. You don't want a cycle of violence, don't kidnap children and kill them.

it's no secret that you believe that, you mean. You lay the blame where you want to and ignore anything else. That's your prerogative but please don't be surprised that it doesn't convince anyone of the rectitude of your position.

Thanks for what I feel is a substantive and productive comment. I assume that you are an Israeli and obviously share my interest in the region. I don't expect or even want everyone to share my views and am therefore interested in yours.

I made it a point to spend at least one night, alone at as many archeological sites as possible in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria Lebanon and intended to go south to Israel & Egypt etc when the '73 War broke out so I'm not anti Israel but obviously oppose Israel's increasingly militant right wing element behind the illegal and provocative "Settlement" movement.

I will admit that I am at fault for not expressing my equal opposition to militant Islamic extremists who want to drive Israel's Jews "from the river to the sea" and feel that those extremists, too are enemies of regional security.
I've made the mistake of assuming that my sentiments were assumed.

Briefly put, I oppose the violent and murderous extremists on both sides and consequently oppose America's support of either element.

Re:

The violence comes because Arabs fire rockets, blow up buses and kill people sleeping in their beds and then try to blame "settlers" who respond. You don't want a cycle of violence, don't kidnap children and kill them.

Can't you see that it is Israel's internationally condemned "Settlement" expansionism that breeds the desperate and violent retaliations?
"Settlers", by definition, are newly arrived invader / occupiers in violation of the same international laws employed for the complete destruction of Saddam's Iraq.
Please note the double standard which is a partial cause of most Islamic violence.


Hamas' extremists, as opposed to Israel's extremists, don't have influential lobbies that support their criminality and have managed to extract $ Trillions in "aid" and the deadliest weaponry on the planet.

Over the decades, it has not been Palestinian lobbyists who have repeatedly tried to manipulate America into their cause as right wing Israeli lobbies have tried to drag America into their war for "Greater Israel" through False Flag attacks and deceptions from the Lavon Affair to AIPAC's more recent machinations:

“QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”
AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

Perhaps it is because I have spent so much time in V.A. hospitals with mutilated, burned and traumatized young American G.I.s that I so strongly resent AIPAC's parasitic and manipulative influence.

However, we can discuss what has happened in the past forever but it is what is happening today and in the future that is most important.

My biggest concern is that AIPAC and similar right wing Israeli lobbies will succeed in drawing America into its war for a Greater Israel regional hegemony as it did with Iraq.
Naturally, I don't want my nieces and nephews to die thousands of miles away for a Greater Israel just as you wouldn't support your nieces and nephews being sent to die for American expansionism.

That is why I am concerned that Netanyahu has no End Game or Exit Strategy other than indiscriminately killing Palestinians (aka "mowing the lawn") .
Even if Hamas is eventually eliminated, there are about 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world with the growing support of BRIC and other nations along with millions of Muslims angry enough for an even deadlier replacement or enlargement of the existing Hamas with a different name.

While I assume that you support Israel's Settlement expansionism and wonder what you think the situation in Gaza will be in another 5 months.
For example, do you support Israel's annexation of Gaza and are you concerned about a regional broadening of the conflict?
I am genuinely interested in what has influenced you to support Israel's settlements and to know what you expect the situation in Gaza to be like in 5 months.

Thanks,

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Grau]

You beyond clearly, like so many others, confuse the word native of a place - as in born in - with indigenous.

Palestinians, they are Arabs, they are indigenous of Arabia, and it does not matter where in the world they are BORN, they will continue to be indigenous of that Peninsula, just as Europeans who are born in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, Greenland, are still INDIGENOUS of the countries they came from in Europe, or those who came from Japan, China, etc and live in those places or are BORN there.


Indigenous people of the Americans fought the European invaders as much as they could.

The Jewish people INDIGENOUS of their ancestral homeland were never able to fight their invaders after the Bar Kochba defeat in the 2nd Century CE.

The Jewish People legally bought land from the Ottomans once that Empire allowed buying land after 1850. Arabs also bought land. Arabs, NOT Palestinians, they never called themselves that and JEWS are the original Palestinians because the Romans changed their homeland JUDEA's name into SYRIA Palestina, not JUST Palestina, because of the two previous Empires who had defeated the Jews ON their homeland.


Being BORN on any land does not make one INDIGENOUS, no matter how many centuries one has live there, and MOST Arabs only move the the REGION called Palestine because the Jews started businesses in the Land of Israel which attracted lots of Arabs who were looking for work. Therefore any of those Arab migrants can never be called Indigenous, much less "Natives" of the land of Israel.


Come up with any study you wish to "prove" the Arab rights to the Jewish land, to prove Israel's "Intent" in ethnically cleansing Arabs from the land, but the facts only pinpoint to endless ethnic cleansing of Jews :

1920 Gaza
1929 Hebron
1948 ALL of Judea, Samaria AND the Jewish Quarter of Judea.

Arabs fled in 1948 listening to their Arab leaders who promised a destroyed Israel and an Israel free of Jews. That is why so many ended up in Gaza, while the Arabs in the North, like Haifa, were asked by Israeli leaders to stay and STAY they did, and still there making part of the 2 MILLION non Jews in Israel who have the same rights as the Jews.

Say whatever you like about your walkings, visits, etc, etc, you choose the "facts" which suit how your mind sees and believes are the facts. Millions of others have been, yes, programmed by abut five decades of accusations against Israel.


The Levant is in the Middle East. The term Middle East only exists since last century. Notice how the "Middle East" is practically ALL Arab Muslim plus Persian Iran with little tiny Israel there.


Of all of those countries, which were invaded by the Arab Muslims, since the 7th Century CE, ONLY Kurdistan and Israel are ruled by the indigenous people of those lands. And Kurdistan has yet to be accepted as a sovereign country.

Jew hatred is a disease which grows and grows, seems dormant for some time than hits hard again because people wish to believe the worst of Jews.


It comes from 2000 years of anti Jewish lies from Christianity.

It comes from 1700 years of anti Jewish lies from Islam.

Work AGAINST Jew hatred .

Stop running full force towards Jew hatred.


Jews have rights to be sovereign on their ancient homeland.

Arabs have the right to live in peace on that land as they are doing now.


GAZA was full abandoned by Israel in 2005.

NO excuse for Arabs to be attacking Israel from Gaza.

The reason they have continued to do it is because they want to destroy Israel, as they have been attempting to do since 1920 with the first Arab riots against Jews by the Al Hussaini Clan which could not accept Jewish sovereignty on land once conquered by either Arab or Turkish Muslims.


That is ALL this conflict has ever been about, and will continue to be about as long as there is anyone attempting to help the terrorists who never wanted peace, but simply ALL OF THE LAND.

That goes for the UN, UNWRA, any organizations or politicians in the world who are such antisemites that they are willing to make laws to help the terrorists and never protect sovereign Israel as they should.

Are you for peace?

Demand that the hostages are freed by Hamas.


Everyone who thinks they know what Israel is about is "demanding" a ceasefire, but not the release of the hostages.


That is the most telling part of what has happened since 10/7.

Before Israel was prepared to put down Hamas in Gaza after 10/7, people all over the world started celebrating the barbaric attack. And then later, how dare Israel go into Gaza to end Hamas and liberate the hostages.

You are more than probably not going to read this, much less think about any of it.


It does not matter.

Israel is winning the war. People screaming all the lies they can does not matter, exactly because they are lies.


The People of Israel LIVE !!!

Re:

You are more than probably not going to read this, much less think about any of it.

What have I said that would lead you to believe that I'm that close minded?

I am intimately aware of what modern munitions and fire do to human tissue and wouldn't want any fellow human being to endure that unimaginable pain and trauma.

While I am pressed for time at the moment, I will, indeed, think about what your opinions and respond more fully later.

Thanks,

 

[rosends]

Can't you see that it is Israel's internationally condemned "Settlement" expansionism that breeds the desperate and violent retaliations?

No because I don't see "settler" expansionsim the way you do. There are cities. Cities grow. People move in so new neighborhoods are established and new apartment buildings are built. No one expanded into Gaza. No one has expanded in Lebanon. And invading, murdering, kidnapping, bombing and rocket fire are not "retaliations" if the only thing to retaliate against is that someone else exists. Those people who move to new areas aren't settlers, but people who live places. Using the label "settlers" creates this image of the wild west and taking from the people who live there. But that isn't the case here.

Hamas' extremists, as opposed to Israel's extremists, don't have influential lobbies that support their criminality and have managed to extract $ Trillions in "aid" and the deadliest weaponry on the planet.

So you are unfamiliar with the millions poured into Arab coffers by the international community (and misused by Hamas to create tunnels, smuggle weapons and line the pockets of their leaders)? Tunnels cost 3 million dollars each. Where do you think that money comes from? And by labeling whatever Israel does as a priori "criminality" you have already established your baseline belief.

That is why I am concerned that Netanyahu has no End Game or Exit Strategy other than indiscriminately killing Palestinians (aka "mowing the lawn") .
Even if Hamas is eventually eliminated, there are about 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world with the growing support of BRIC and other nations along with millions of Muslims angry enough for an even deadlier replacement or enlargement of the existing Hamas with a different name.

And they were there, attacking Israel before Hamas existed also. Someone should inform the world that Israel has a right to exist and that the international community frowns on targeting Israel. Except that the rest of the world is OK with targeting Israel.

wonder what you think the situation in Gaza will be in another 5 months.

In the long run, I don't know. I have hopes and dreams (I'd like to go back to Gaza -- I spent some nice time there in 1994) and I could try to second guess strategists and politicians but if you had asked someone in 2004 what Gaza would be like in 2005, most would not have said "Israel will unilaterally pull out and leave an infrastructure for success for the Arabs".

For example, do you support Israel's annexation of Gaza and are you concerned about a regional broadening of the conflict?

You say "broadening" as if that would be an innovation. Israel has been working to make peace with regional nations (the Abraham Accords, for example) and, using the carrot/stick method, America has been able to convince countries that it is in their best interests to pursue peace. I don't like the idea of annexing Gaza but history has shown (more than once, by the way) that when Israel gives Gaza back, attacks ensue.

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

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