It's a medical fact. Life begins at conception.

[mamooth]

I've proven you to be a liar, in front of everyone, and I know better than to try to communicate with liars.

But I didn't lie. I was mistaken.

That's one of the greatest things about being a liberal. We're freely allowed to admit mistakes. After all, it's the ethical thing to do, so liberalism says to always do it. Therefore, we always do do it.

Conservatives? Their fanatical political cult defines admitting error as an unforgivable weakness, and thus forbids it. You know you were wrong about your original wild claim, you know you're wrong about me, but you don't care. You're going to keep telling those lies, because you'd be drummed out of the cult if you didn't.

So, all aboard that butthurt train, you and the rest of the ones I humiliated with stupid liberal tricks like facts and logic. You're all going to ride that butthurt train to the last station. Me? I'd carve another notch, if my liar-smacking stick wasn't already about to fall apart.

 

[Mac1958]

I've proven you to be a liar, in front of everyone, and I know better than to try to communicate with liars.

But I didn't lie. I was mistaken.

That's one of the greatest things about being a liberal. We're freely allowed to admit mistakes. After all, it's the ethical thing to do, so liberalism says to always do it. Therefore, we always do do it.

Conservatives? Their fanatical political cult defines admitting error as an unforgivable weakness, and thus forbids it. You know you were wrong about your original wild claim, you know you're wrong about me, but you don't care. You're going to keep telling those lies, because you'd be drummed out of the cult if you didn't.

So, all aboard that butthurt train, you and the rest of the ones I humiliated with stupid liberal tricks like facts and logic. You're all going to ride that butthurt train to the last station. Me? I'd carve another notch, if my liar-smacking stick wasn't already about to fall apart.

You're still on this? Yikes.

You're no liberal, you're a regressive.

You can hump my leg all you want, though, snowflake. I've really triggered you here.

Let it out. Let it all out. Good. Good.
.

 

[mamooth]

I thought I was too mean to talk to?

Pouting and slamming the door behind you is more effective if you don't come back in.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Admin closed this thread because it contained no original content. So here it is.

ABSTRACT: The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is one of form, not nature. This statement focuses on the scientific evidence of when an individual human life begins.

So, if life begins at conception, doesn't that mean that it should be protected by the 14th Amendment? The only difference between a fully grown adult and a zygote is form, not nature. They both have a unique genetic identity. They are both members of the human species.

When Human Life Begins

It's fact that all animals, you know, the ones you eat, HAVE LIFE.

So?

I can kill a cow after it is born.

And you thought you were making a point.

I am making a point. I just have no idea what you're talking about.

Is life important or isn't it important?

 

[JakeStarkey]

g5000's arguments have demolished.

Yes, my arguments have demolished the pro-abortion arguments.

Thank you!

Silly goofus: fetuses have no priority and little parity with moms.

And negroes have no parity with whites. So said the law. We should have kept morals and religion out of it. That's the argument you are making.

Fallacy of false equivalency. Stop acting stupidly, because you are not.

A fetus has no personhood, thus it has little parity and no priority over the mother.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

In order to pull off the condescending act, you have to actually be smart. I can do it. You can't. You can recite propaganda, but you can't think.

I'm sorry, but yours have been the dumbest replies on this entire thread. At least some of the other pro aborts here have enough basic knowledge and intellectual honesty to understand the difference between a sperm and a human being.

Let's summarize the kook argument I was responding to.

He said any human life is a person. A sperm is human. It is alive. It is therefore indisputably human life. Only liars or retards would claim otherwise. Thus, by his standards, a sperm is a person. Instead of addressing that, you handwaved it away, probably because you knew you couldn't address it.

Because I'm supposed to be working right now, I'm going to post a couple excerpts from an article on this topic. Please read it. I will post the link to the rest of the article for you to read.

A. Basic human embryological facts

To begin with, scientifically something very radical occurs between the processes of gametogenesis and fertilization — the change from a simple part of one human being (i.e., a sperm) and a simple part of another human being (i.e., an oocyte — usually referred to as an "ovum" or "egg"), which simply possess "human life", to a new, genetically unique, newly existing, individual, whole living human being (an embryonic single-cell human zygote). That is, upon fertilization, parts of human beings have actually been transformed into something very different from what they were before; they have been changed into a single, whole human being. During the process of fertilization, the sperm and the oocyte cease to exist as such, and a new human being is produced.


....there is a radical difference, scientifically, between parts of a human being that only possess "human life" and a human embryo or human fetus that is an actual "human being." Abortion is the destruction of a human being. Destroying a human sperm or a human oocyte would not constitute abortion, since neither are human beings. The issue is not when does human life begin, but rather when does the life of every human being begin. A human kidney or liver, a human skin cell, a sperm or an oocyte all possess human life, but they are not human beings — they are only parts of a human being. If a single sperm or a single oocyte were implanted into a woman's uterus, they would not grow; they would simply disintegrate.

Libertarians for Life - Abortion and the Question of the Person
​

Actual biology, which pro-lifers tend to be remarkably ignorant of, is very unkind to the pro-life position.

The exact opposite is true, and if you realized that, you'd know how silly you sound.

Look, let's make this simple. You can claim that the pre-born is not a "person," you can claim that the pre-born doesn't have rights, you can claim that the pre-born doesn't have value… But you cannot claim that the pre-born is not a human being, because science is clear on this, the zygote/embryo/fetus is a brand new human being, simply in the earliest stages of life.

You know, the lengths that you're going to deny what is clear leads me to believe that you have other reasons for defending abortion. But all you're doing is lying to yourself.

And your replies have been the most ignorant.

You and other authoritarian conservatives hostile to privacy rights have been trying – and failing – to contrive a ‘justification’ for ‘banning’ abortion; a rhetorical contrivance that fails as a false comparison fallacy.

 

[buttercup]

You and other authoritarian conservatives hostile to privacy rights have been trying – and failing – to contrive a ‘justification’ for ‘banning’ abortion; a rhetorical contrivance that fails as a false comparison fallacy.

You're either very presumptuous, or dishonest. Earlier, I clearly stated that I believe that hearts and minds need to change first, before laws are changed. You're also a terrible listener, but I got tired of repeating myself with you long ago, so I'm not even going to bother with you.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Well, unlike politicians, I don't need to play games.
.

Are you personally fine with playing it both ways? Or not?

I'm perfectly comfy with my position, thanks.
.

That's fine, as long as you can accept the fact that some of us find the contradictions unacceptable.

Well, this is a tough issue, probably the toughest of all, to find any kind of cooperation or middle ground.
.

Roe v Wade found a middle ground.

The Roe Court also acknowledged – correctly – the fact that individuals alone are best tasked with the decision as to when ‘personhood’ manifests, not the state.

That conservatives believe the state ‘knows best,’ and should compel adherence to one belief is further evidence of their contempt for sound, responsible governance.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

g5000's arguments have demolished.

Yes, my arguments have demolished the pro-abortion arguments.

Thank you!

Silly goofus: fetuses have no priority and little parity with moms.

Correct.

“The effect of state regulation on a woman's protected liberty is doubly deserving of scrutiny in such a case, as the State has touched not only upon the private sphere of the family but upon the very bodily integrity of the pregnant woman.” Ibid

The social right is blinded by its fanaticism, oblivious to the rights of the woman.

 

[IsaacNewton]

There is no great protest or outcry from anyone in the pro-birth movement that decry frozen embryos as people. And most of these embryos will not be brought to term. They will die. As well, as soon as a baby leaves the womb the 'pro-birth' contingent then changes their tune and says "don't you take my taxpayer money to feed and provide healthcare for that baby". In addition the same people that will wail and whine about abortion ignore the 20,000 children that die every day around the world.

Honestly you pro-birth folks have nothing to stand on. Your beliefs are based on you having to do nothing and having to spend nothing. Your entire worldview is based on saying to another person "I don't like that". Then you feel righteous and vindicated and like you are doing 'god's work'. Uh huh.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It's a weak-willed person who claims to be against abortion but has to stand with the law.

Seriously weak-willed, immoral, holocaust enabler.

There is not one whit of difference between them and those who hid behind the law banning blacks at lunch counters.

Not one whit.

Saying something is legal is not a moral defense. A lot of what Wall Street did that brought down the economy was totally legal.

Nonsense.

It’s perfectly appropriate and desirable to seek a solution to the issue of abortion where that solution comports with privacy rights jurisprudence.

This also fails as a false comparison fallacy.

As a fact of law an embryo/fetus is not a ‘person’ entitled to Constitutional protections, unlike African-Americans who are persons entitled to Constitutional protections, the courts having held that discrimination in public accommodations such as lunch counters unlawful.

 

[JoeMoma]

No, it’s about the law.

For more than 40 years civil rights advocates have battled with authoritarian conservatives hostile to the privacy rights of women.

This thread’s premise is one of the social right’s more tedious and inane tactics.

Conservatives are as dishonest as they are reprehensible.

Don't you think that the person who started this thread would know what his thread is about? It's about life beginning at conception. Not the law

Apparently Jones believes science can be changed by amending the constitution or by judges creating constitutional case law. If the constitution were amended such as to state that people cease to be “people” at age 30 years....then it will be so.

 

[Chuz Life]

In order to pull off the condescending act, you have to actually be smart. I can do it. You can't. You can recite propaganda, but you can't think.

I'm sorry, but yours have been the dumbest replies on this entire thread. At least some of the other pro aborts here have enough basic knowledge and intellectual honesty to understand the difference between a sperm and a human being.

Let's summarize the kook argument I was responding to.

He said any human life is a person. A sperm is human. It is alive. It is therefore indisputably human life. Only liars or retards would claim otherwise. Thus, by his standards, a sperm is a person. Instead of addressing that, you handwaved it away, probably because you knew you couldn't address it.

Because I'm supposed to be working right now, I'm going to post a couple excerpts from an article on this topic. Please read it. I will post the link to the rest of the article for you to read.

A. Basic human embryological facts

To begin with, scientifically something very radical occurs between the processes of gametogenesis and fertilization — the change from a simple part of one human being (i.e., a sperm) and a simple part of another human being (i.e., an oocyte — usually referred to as an "ovum" or "egg"), which simply possess "human life", to a new, genetically unique, newly existing, individual, whole living human being (an embryonic single-cell human zygote). That is, upon fertilization, parts of human beings have actually been transformed into something very different from what they were before; they have been changed into a single, whole human being. During the process of fertilization, the sperm and the oocyte cease to exist as such, and a new human being is produced.


....there is a radical difference, scientifically, between parts of a human being that only possess "human life" and a human embryo or human fetus that is an actual "human being." Abortion is the destruction of a human being. Destroying a human sperm or a human oocyte would not constitute abortion, since neither are human beings. The issue is not when does human life begin, but rather when does the life of every human being begin. A human kidney or liver, a human skin cell, a sperm or an oocyte all possess human life, but they are not human beings — they are only parts of a human being. If a single sperm or a single oocyte were implanted into a woman's uterus, they would not grow; they would simply disintegrate.

Libertarians for Life - Abortion and the Question of the Person
​

Actual biology, which pro-lifers tend to be remarkably ignorant of, is very unkind to the pro-life position.

The exact opposite is true, and if you realized that, you'd know how silly you sound.

Look, let's make this simple. You can claim that the pre-born is not a "person," you can claim that the pre-born doesn't have rights, you can claim that the pre-born doesn't have value… But you cannot claim that the pre-born is not a human being, because science is clear on this, the zygote/embryo/fetus is a brand new human being, simply in the earliest stages of life.

You know, the lengths that you're going to deny what is clear leads me to believe that you have other reasons for defending abortion. But all you're doing is lying to yourself.

And your replies have been the most ignorant.

You and other authoritarian conservatives hostile to privacy rights have been trying – and failing – to contrive a ‘justification’ for ‘banning’ abortion; a rhetorical contrivance that fails as a false comparison fallacy.

Does anyone have the right to violate the rights of a child and then hide that violation behind a so called "right to privacy? "

I don't think so.

 

[Chuz Life]

There is no great protest or outcry from anyone in the pro-birth movement that decry frozen embryos as people. And most of these embryos will not be brought to term. They will die. As well, as soon as a baby leaves the womb the 'pro-birth' contingent then changes their tune and says "don't you take my taxpayer money to feed and provide healthcare for that baby". In addition the same people that will wail and whine about abortion ignore the 20,000 children that die every day around the world.

Honestly you pro-birth folks have nothing to stand on. Your beliefs are based on you having to do nothing and having to spend nothing. Your entire worldview is based on saying to another person "I don't like that". Then you feel righteous and vindicated and like you are doing 'god's work'. Uh huh.

Either children have a right to the equal protections of our laws or they don't.

If you can identify situations where they are being abused neglected, violated, etc. . . Better than we can? That's great. Show us a better way.

That said.. .

If you are thinking you can use the bad plight of children in some situations as some sort of justification for abortions?

Go piss up a rope.

The warm fuzzy feeling might even last longer for you.

 

[IsaacNewton]

There is no great protest or outcry from anyone in the pro-birth movement that decry frozen embryos as people. And most of these embryos will not be brought to term. They will die. As well, as soon as a baby leaves the womb the 'pro-birth' contingent then changes their tune and says "don't you take my taxpayer money to feed and provide healthcare for that baby". In addition the same people that will wail and whine about abortion ignore the 20,000 children that die every day around the world.

Honestly you pro-birth folks have nothing to stand on. Your beliefs are based on you having to do nothing and having to spend nothing. Your entire worldview is based on saying to another person "I don't like that". Then you feel righteous and vindicated and like you are doing 'god's work'. Uh huh.

Either children have a right to the equal protections of our laws or they don't.

If you can identify situations where they are being abused neglected, violated, etc. . . Better than we can? That's great. Show us a better way.

That said.. .

If you are thinking you can use the bad plight of children in some situations as some sort of justification for abortions?

Go piss up a rope.

The warm fuzzy feeling might even last longer for you.

Multiply 20,000 by 365. That is how many children died around the world last year that could have been saved had you simply spent money on them and given your time to saving as many as possible.

Instead you are bitching at people on a message board. Stop fooling yourself Cubby, life isn't important to you, the issue is important because it makes for a great political football for you. Stop typing and go do something if you REALLY want to save lives. Otherwise you are just sitting on your ass telling other people what you would do if you were not you.

 

[Chuz Life]

There is no great protest or outcry from anyone in the pro-birth movement that decry frozen embryos as people. And most of these embryos will not be brought to term. They will die. As well, as soon as a baby leaves the womb the 'pro-birth' contingent then changes their tune and says "don't you take my taxpayer money to feed and provide healthcare for that baby". In addition the same people that will wail and whine about abortion ignore the 20,000 children that die every day around the world.

Honestly you pro-birth folks have nothing to stand on. Your beliefs are based on you having to do nothing and having to spend nothing. Your entire worldview is based on saying to another person "I don't like that". Then you feel righteous and vindicated and like you are doing 'god's work'. Uh huh.

Either children have a right to the equal protections of our laws or they don't.

If you can identify situations where they are being abused neglected, violated, etc. . . Better than we can? That's great. Show us a better way.

That said.. .

If you are thinking you can use the bad plight of children in some situations as some sort of justification for abortions?

Go piss up a rope.

The warm fuzzy feeling might even last longer for you.

Multiply 20,000 by 365. That is how many children died around the world last year that could have been saved had you simply spent money on them and given your time to saving as many as possible.

100% of them could have been saved?

Really?

Prove it.

Instead you are bitching at people on a message board. Stop fooling yourself Cubby, life isn't important to you, the issue is important because it makes for a great political football for you. Stop typing and go do something if you REALLY want to save lives.

You seem to think I come here to save lives.

That's cute.

No fucktard. I don't come here to save lives (not directly anyway.) I come here to expose the ignorance and denials that fuctardz like YOU are using to deny children their rights, lives and personhood and I have a good time doing it.

The funny part is that even after having it explained? You are still too fucking dense to comprehend it.

Otherwise you are just sitting on your ass telling other people what you would do if you were not you.

Say it with me.. .

"Children have a Constitutional right to the equal protections of our laws from the moment their lives begin."

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[MPS777]

There is no great protest or outcry from anyone in the pro-birth movement that decry frozen embryos as people. And most of these embryos will not be brought to term. They will die. As well, as soon as a baby leaves the womb the 'pro-birth' contingent then changes their tune and says "don't you take my taxpayer money to feed and provide healthcare for that baby". In addition the same people that will wail and whine about abortion ignore the 20,000 children that die every day around the world.

Honestly you pro-birth folks have nothing to stand on. Your beliefs are based on you having to do nothing and having to spend nothing. Your entire worldview is based on saying to another person "I don't like that". Then you feel righteous and vindicated and like you are doing 'god's work'. Uh huh.

Either children have a right to the equal protections of our laws or they don't.

If you can identify situations where they are being abused neglected, violated, etc. . . Better than we can? That's great. Show us a better way.

That said.. .

If you are thinking you can use the bad plight of children in some situations as some sort of justification for abortions?

Go piss up a rope.

The warm fuzzy feeling might even last longer for you.

Multiply 20,000 by 365. That is how many children died around the world last year that could have been saved had you simply spent money on them and given your time to saving as many as possible.

100% of them could have been saved?

Really?

Prove it.

Instead you are bitching at people on a message board. Stop fooling yourself Cubby, life isn't important to you, the issue is important because it makes for a great political football for you. Stop typing and go do something if you REALLY want to save lives.

You seem to think I come here to save lives.

That's cute.

No fucktard. I don't come here to save lives (not directly anyway.) I come here to expose the ignorance and denials that fuctardz like YOU are using to deny children their rights, lives and personhood and I have a good time doing it.

The funny part is that even after having it explained? You are still too fucking dense to comprehend it.

Otherwise you are just sitting on your ass telling other people what you would do if you were not you.

Say it with me.. .

"Children have a Constitutional right to the equal protections of our laws from the moment their lives begin."

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Chuz Life is a sad case really. He tries to hold (at least) two philosophically opposing beliefs at the same time:
1. Killing a human zygote is the same as murdering a person.
2. Rape victims should be allowed to have abortions.
I can point out many ways in which these are absurdly contradictory beliefs; Chuz Life just does it using denial. So he blunders around here posting a whole lot of nonsense because his judgment is clouded by cognitive dissonance.

 

[Penelope]

There is no great protest or outcry from anyone in the pro-birth movement that decry frozen embryos as people. And most of these embryos will not be brought to term. They will die. As well, as soon as a baby leaves the womb the 'pro-birth' contingent then changes their tune and says "don't you take my taxpayer money to feed and provide healthcare for that baby". In addition the same people that will wail and whine about abortion ignore the 20,000 children that die every day around the world.

Honestly you pro-birth folks have nothing to stand on. Your beliefs are based on you having to do nothing and having to spend nothing. Your entire worldview is based on saying to another person "I don't like that". Then you feel righteous and vindicated and like you are doing 'god's work'. Uh huh.

Either children have a right to the equal protections of our laws or they don't.

If you can identify situations where they are being abused neglected, violated, etc. . . Better than we can? That's great. Show us a better way.

That said.. .

If you are thinking you can use the bad plight of children in some situations as some sort of justification for abortions?

Go piss up a rope.

The warm fuzzy feeling might even last longer for you.

I so feel bad for the poorer children who are now going without chip or soon to be, due to the GOP non action on it, they are using it for a chip, no pun intended.

 

[Penelope]

There is no great protest or outcry from anyone in the pro-birth movement that decry frozen embryos as people. And most of these embryos will not be brought to term. They will die. As well, as soon as a baby leaves the womb the 'pro-birth' contingent then changes their tune and says "don't you take my taxpayer money to feed and provide healthcare for that baby". In addition the same people that will wail and whine about abortion ignore the 20,000 children that die every day around the world.

Honestly you pro-birth folks have nothing to stand on. Your beliefs are based on you having to do nothing and having to spend nothing. Your entire worldview is based on saying to another person "I don't like that". Then you feel righteous and vindicated and like you are doing 'god's work'. Uh huh.

Either children have a right to the equal protections of our laws or they don't.

If you can identify situations where they are being abused neglected, violated, etc. . . Better than we can? That's great. Show us a better way.

That said.. .

If you are thinking you can use the bad plight of children in some situations as some sort of justification for abortions?

Go piss up a rope.

The warm fuzzy feeling might even last longer for you.

Multiply 20,000 by 365. That is how many children died around the world last year that could have been saved had you simply spent money on them and given your time to saving as many as possible.

100% of them could have been saved?

Really?

Prove it.

Instead you are bitching at people on a message board. Stop fooling yourself Cubby, life isn't important to you, the issue is important because it makes for a great political football for you. Stop typing and go do something if you REALLY want to save lives.

You seem to think I come here to save lives.

That's cute.

No fucktard. I don't come here to save lives (not directly anyway.) I come here to expose the ignorance and denials that fuctardz like YOU are using to deny children their rights, lives and personhood and I have a good time doing it.

The funny part is that even after having it explained? You are still too fucking dense to comprehend it.

Otherwise you are just sitting on your ass telling other people what you would do if you were not you.

Say it with me.. .

"Children have a Constitutional right to the equal protections of our laws from the moment their lives begin."

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Chuz Life is a sad case really. He tries to hold (at least) two philosophically opposing beliefs at the same time:
1. Killing a human zygote is the same as murdering a person.
2. Rape victims should be allowed to have abortions.
I can point out many ways in which these are absurdly contradictory beliefs; Chuz Life just does it using denial. So he blunders around here posting a whole lot of nonsense because his judgment is clouded by cognitive dissonance.

Like playing God.

 

[BlindBoo]

Funny how leftardz claim to know biology but can not tell a single (REPRODUCTIVE) CELL of an organism from the organism itself. . . . Because, you know. . . . Fucking semantics.

Funny that some people can't tell the difference between a fertilized egg (Zygote) and a fully developed child.