i've re-considered the entire Ukraine case.. enter *your* opinions please..

[gipper]

No, everyone is used to you touting Putin propaganda.

You confuse the truth with propaganda. Not smart.

 

[georgephillip]

Of course that is a ridiculous lie, but given Putin's spectacular incompetence and lawlessness, regine change is probably the only way to save Russia.

Putin didn't create the civil war in Ukraine.
The US did.
The same way the US created civil wars in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, $yria, etc. etc.
How many more innocent human being$ will be $acrificed on the altar of American Exceptionali$m?

Russia-Ukraine conflict: the propaganda war | MR Online

"We must remember that in time of war what is said on the enemy’s side of the front is always propaganda, and what is said on our side of the front is truth and righteousness, the cause of humanity and a crusade for peace.

– "Walter Lippmann, cited in Shah 2005"

 

[ESay]

Thought experiment for American statist warmongers…

A foreign nation bordering the US experiences a coup committed by the world’s greatest superpower, overthrowing the democratically elected government that was friendly to the US. Now that government is unfriendly and wishes to align itself with the US’s biggest enemy. The world’s greatest superpower.

Now add to this the foreign nation bordering the US is shelling a former territory of the US and killing ethnic Americans. Killing up to 14,000 American men women and children. And is now threatening to invade the territory with a large army.

Do you think the USG should accept this?

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND???

Since there are no too many 'American statist warmongers' who wanted to answer this quite simple question, I will offer my response.

In this story one needs to mention that the country (let's call it Mexocur) had two heavily pro-American regions, and as a whole at the moment of the coup people in the country were devided almost equally whether to join the US-led or China-led economic and military bloc.

So, Mexocur is experiencing some sort of revolt where China establishes a friendly government. Naturally, the two heavily pro-American regions (along with some others) hold massive rallies that doesn't accept this new government. The situation is critical there and the new government wants to send military and volunteers there to show their resolve.

What the USG should do? Send to this regions its military as a peacekeeping force and issue a demand that either Mexocur holds new state elections in six months and new regional elections in six months after them or the USG takes this regions under their protection. No annexation, no statelets. These regions remain a part of Ukraine, and the UN is invited to monitor the situation there.

Then, after six months, new president and new parliament are elected. Even if the pro-Chinese part gets their president and majority in the parliament, the pro-American part gets strong faction in the parliament and maybe even some seats in the government.

Also, we should consider the fact that the US is the main trading partner for Mexocur, in the time of the coup. So, it imposes trade barriers for main Mexocur exports which will have impact on the economy. This will lead that the pro-Chinese government is losing its support and new pro-American government may gain the power (as it was before when the similar coup happened).

So, the second paragraph makes no sense. There are no shellings, killings, and invasions.

 

[gipper]

Since there are no too many 'American statist warmongers' who wanted to answer this quite simple question, I will offer my response.

In this story one needs to mention that the country (let's call it Mexocur) had two heavily pro-American regions, and as a whole at the moment of the coup people in the country were devided almost equally whether to join the US-led or China-led economic and military bloc.

So, Mexocur is experiencing some sort of revolt where China establishes a friendly government. Naturally, the two heavily pro-American regions (along with some others) hold massive rallies that doesn't accept this new government. The situation is critical there and the new government wants to send military and volunteers there to show their resolve.

What the USG should do? Send to this regions its military as a peacekeeping force and issue a demand that either Mexocur holds new state elections in six months and new regional elections in six months after them or the USG takes this regions under their protection. No annexation, no statelets. These regions remain a part of Ukraine, and the UN is invited to monitor the situation there.

Then, after six months, new president and new parliament are elected. Even if the pro-Chinese part gets their president and majority in the parliament, the pro-American part gets strong faction in the parliament and maybe even some seats in the government.

Also, we should consider the fact that the US is the main trading partner for Mexocur, in the time of the coup. So, it imposes trade barriers for main Mexocur exports which will have impact on the economy. This will lead that the pro-Chinese government is losing its support and new pro-American government may gain the power (as it was before when the similar coup happened).

So, the second paragraph makes no sense. There are no shellings, killings, and invasions.

Thank you for that long post.

 

[ESay]

Thank you for that long post.

You are welcome. I hope you read it in full.

 

[georgephillip]

NOPE.

NATO states are supporting Ukraine in their fight against an illegal invasion. People everywhere can understand that simple concept.

Putin is the idiot who put his regime on the line with this bloody, failed "special operation".

You aren't paying attention, or you believe everything you read/see in the western MSM reporting.

Russia is no longer fighting Ukraine; Russia is engaged in a full-fledged proxy war with NATO, facing a NATO-style military force that is logistically sustained by NATO, trained by NATO, provided with NATO intelligence, and working seamlessly with NATO military planners:

SCOTT RITTER: Why Russia Will Still Win, Despite Ukraine's Gains

"The Ukrainian battle plan has 'Made in Brussels' stamped all over it.

"The force composition was determined by NATO, as was the timing of the attacks and the direction of the attacks.

"NATO intelligence carefully located seams in the Russian defenses and identified critical command and control, logistics, and reserve concentration nodes that were targeted by Ukrainian artillery, which operates on a fire control plan created by NATO.

"In short, the Ukrainian army that Russia faced in Kherson and around Kharkov was unlike any Ukrainian opponent it had previously faced.

"Russia was no longer fighting a Ukrainian army equipped by NATO, but rather a NATO army manned by Ukrainians."

 

[gipper]

You are welcome. I hope you read it in full.

Not a word. Sorry.

I don’t like imperialists. So nothing they say is of interest to me.

 

[g5000]

it's also true that the Minsk Negotiations about the Donbass region were ignored by The West, and that the Donbass region, like the Ukraine region, is populated primarily with Russian speakers.

The Sudetenland is populated primarily with German speakers. Hitler should invade Czechoslavakia.

Canada is populated primarily with English speakers. We should invade Canada.

 

[ESay]

Not a word. Sorry.

I don’t like imperialists. So nothing they say is of interest to me.

That is okay. Some people prefer to stay in ignorance. That is the easiest way.

 

[georgephillip]

Unfortunately capitalism rules the world. Lots of money to be made by the oligarchs in war. Not much money in helping starving people.

The oligarchs claim to support efforts on controlling CC yet they push war, which has to be the worst thing they could do to the climate.

I wonder if it's worth asking the capitalists if oligarchs even exist in a society without war and debt?

 

[gipper]

That is okay. Some people prefer to stay in ignorance. That is the easiest way.

Ignorance is imperialism.

 

[gipper]

I wonder if it's worth asking the capitalists if oligarchs even exist in a society without war and debt?

I’m not sure how’d they’d answer such question. We do know they don’t see oligarchs as a problem. So they probably wouldn’t understand the question.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Putin didn't create the civil war in Ukraine.
The US did.
The same way the US created civil wars in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, $yria, etc. etc.
How many more innocent human being$ will be $acrificed on the altar of American Exceptionali$m?

Russia-Ukraine conflict: the propaganda war | MR Online

"We must remember that in time of war what is said on the enemy’s side of the front is always propaganda, and what is said on our side of the front is truth and righteousness, the cause of humanity and a crusade for peace.

– "Walter Lippmann, cited in Shah 2005"

There is no civil war in Ukraine; there is a Russian invasion of Ukraine that claims there was a civil war in an effort to justify its entirely illegal invasion.

 

[ESay]

Ignorance is imperialism.

Then you are an imperialist, for sure.

 

[Toro]

The racist revanchists will gaslight for the slaughter.

'Mass burial site containing 440 graves' found in Izyum after city liberated by Ukrainian forces

The key city had been under Russian occupation for months but was recaptured amid the surging Ukrainian offensive.

news.sky.com

skye
Sunni Man

 

[Toro]

You aren't paying attention, or you believe everything you read/see in the western MSM reporting.

Russia is no longer fighting Ukraine; Russia is engaged in a full-fledged proxy war with NATO, facing a NATO-style military force that is logistically sustained by NATO, trained by NATO, provided with NATO intelligence, and working seamlessly with NATO military planners:

SCOTT RITTER: Why Russia Will Still Win, Despite Ukraine's Gains

"The Ukrainian battle plan has 'Made in Brussels' stamped all over it.

"The force composition was determined by NATO, as was the timing of the attacks and the direction of the attacks.

"NATO intelligence carefully located seams in the Russian defenses and identified critical command and control, logistics, and reserve concentration nodes that were targeted by Ukrainian artillery, which operates on a fire control plan created by NATO.

"In short, the Ukrainian army that Russia faced in Kherson and around Kharkov was unlike any Ukrainian opponent it had previously faced.

"Russia was no longer fighting a Ukrainian army equipped by NATO, but rather a NATO army manned by Ukrainians."

The far left and the far right are for Russia and against the West and freedom.

 

[gipper]

Then you are an imperialist, for sure.

I looked up the definition of imperialist to help you out, and look what I found…
[IMG alt="ESay"]https://www.usmessageboard.com/data/avatars/l/53/53973.jpg?1624675376[/IMG]

 

[georgephillip]

Zelensky originally did not want war and it was not Russia who turned him into the zealot he became it was one or more of the Far Right Nationalist groups. He wanted them to stop fighting Russia so that he could get mark 2 of that agreement through and they told him he and his family would be dead before they stopped.

Zelensky's election was at least partially due to his support for the Steinmeier Formula which called for elections in the Russian-speaking areas of Donetsk and Lugansk.

Ukraine's white supremacists refused to allow those elections to take place.

How Ukraine's Jewish president Zelensky made peace with neo-Nazi paramilitaries on front lines of war with Russia - The Grayzone

"Back in October 2019, as the war in eastern Ukraine dragged on, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky traveled to Zolote, a town situated firmly in the 'gray zone' of Donbas, where over 14,000 had been killed, mostly on the pro-Russian side.

"There, the president encountered the hardened veterans of extreme right paramilitary units keeping up the fight against separatists just a few miles away.

"Elected on a platform of de-escalation of hostilities with Russia, Zelensky was determined to enforce the so-called Steinmeier Formula conceived by then-German Foreign Minister Walter Steinmeier which called for elections in the Russian-speaking regions of Donetsk and Lugansk.

"In a face-to-face confrontation with militants from the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion who had launched a campaign to sabotage the peace initiative called 'No to Capitulation,' Zelensky encountered a wall of obstinacy.

"With appeals for disengagement from the frontlines firmly rejected, Zelensky melted down on camera. 'I’m the president of this country. I’m 41 years old. I’m not a loser. I came to you and told you: remove the weapons,' Zelensky implored the fighters..."

"Andriy Biletsky, the proudly fascist Azov Battalion leader who once pledged to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade…against Semite-led Untermenschen', vowed to bring thousands of fighters to Zolote if Zelensky pressed any further.

"Meanwhile, a parliamentarian from the party of former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko openly fantasized about Zelensky being blown to bits by a militant’s grenade."

 

[georgephillip]

The far left and the far right are for Russia and against the West and freedom.

The only freedom the US has ever been concerned with is the freedom to profit from wars the richest parasites never fight in.

Ukrainians are being told to fight to the last drop of blood so American capitalists can profit from regime change in Russia (again)

Confidence in Democracy and Capitalism Wanes in Former Soviet Union

 

[Toro]