“Jesus Had a Wife” Gets Coverage on CBS and ABC

[Statistikhengst]

DriftingSand is not offering an analogy. DS believes the Bible is literal, so DS is offering you "proof" based on "authority." If the scripture is literal and true, then the Church is his wife.

That's correct. If the Bible can't be trusted as fully true then it can't be trusted at all (in my opinion). So, as a Christian, I put full trust in God's ability to reveal His will and Word to His followers. The Bible speaks of "the marriage supper of the Lamb" which speaks of the marriage between Christ and His followers. Since Christ is opposed to adultery He wouldn't marry more than one wife for He says that a leader of the Church should be married to "one wife."

You do realize that that is meant allegorically, right?

Yeshuah was never physically a lamb.

But I respect your right to interpret it literally, if you so desire.

You argumentation was interesting.

 

[DriftingSand]

DriftingSand is not offering an analogy. DS believes the Bible is literal, so DS is offering you "proof" based on "authority." If the scripture is literal and true, then the Church is his wife.

That's correct. If the Bible can't be trusted as fully true then it can't be trusted at all (in my opinion). So, as a Christian, I put full trust in God's ability to reveal His will and Word to His followers. The Bible speaks of "the marriage supper of the Lamb" which speaks of the marriage between Christ and His followers. Since Christ is opposed to adultery He wouldn't marry more than one wife for He says that a leader of the Church should be married to "one wife."

You do realize that that is meant allegorically, right?

Yeshuah was never physically a lamb.

But I respect your right to interpret it literally, if you so desire.

You argumentation was interesting.

The Bible is full of allegory, metaphor, simile, and parable. But not all of the Bible is spoken in parable. It's up the reader with the help of the Holy Spirit to determine how the Bible is interpreted. Christ is called a "Lamb" because of His sacrifice -- a Lamb without blemish. The "wife," too, is allegorical but the entire 12 tribes of Israel has been referred to as a "she" or "her" which indicates that, as a whole, they are a bride. Jeremiah speaks of God "divorcing" Israel because of her harlotry.

 

[Pogo]

That's correct. If the Bible can't be trusted as fully true then it can't be trusted at all (in my opinion). So, as a Christian, I put full trust in God's ability to reveal His will and Word to His followers. The Bible speaks of "the marriage supper of the Lamb" which speaks of the marriage between Christ and His followers. Since Christ is opposed to adultery He wouldn't marry more than one wife for He says that a leader of the Church should be married to "one wife."

You do realize that that is meant allegorically, right?

Yeshuah was never physically a lamb.

But I respect your right to interpret it literally, if you so desire.

You argumentation was interesting.

The Bible is full of allegory, metaphor, simile, and parable. But not all of the Bible is spoken in parable. It's up the reader with the help of the Holy Spirit to determine how the Bible is interpreted. Christ is called a "Lamb" because of His sacrifice -- a Lamb without blemish. The "wife," too, is allegorical but the entire 12 tribes of Israel has been referred to as a "she" or "her" which indicates that, as a whole, they are a bride. Jeremiah speaks of God "divorcing" Israel because of her harlotry.

Interesting. Are these pronoun genders assigned in the original, or just in the translation to English? Because different languages, unlike English, do assign "genders" to nouns which are not genders in the sexual sense but simply how the word-sounds flow (e.g. German das Mädchen (the little girl) is neuter, but it doesn't mean she's not physically a girl...

Second point, seems to me if you're going to say the bible is full of allegory, metaphor, etc (which makes perfect sense), then you can't simultaneously claim it's to be taken literally. You can't have it both ways because whenever some literality presents as inconvenient it's just easily excused by "allegory".

 

[DriftingSand]

You do realize that that is meant allegorically, right?

Yeshuah was never physically a lamb.

But I respect your right to interpret it literally, if you so desire.

You argumentation was interesting.

The Bible is full of allegory, metaphor, simile, and parable. But not all of the Bible is spoken in parable. It's up the reader with the help of the Holy Spirit to determine how the Bible is interpreted. Christ is called a "Lamb" because of His sacrifice -- a Lamb without blemish. The "wife," too, is allegorical but the entire 12 tribes of Israel has been referred to as a "she" or "her" which indicates that, as a whole, they are a bride. Jeremiah speaks of God "divorcing" Israel because of her harlotry.

Interesting. Are these pronoun genders assigned in the original, or just in the translation to English? Because different languages, unlike English, do assign "genders" to nouns which are not genders in the sexual sense but simply how the word-sounds flow (e.g. German das Mädchen (the little girl) is neuter, but it doesn't mean she's not physically a girl...

Second point, seems to me if you're going to say the bible is full of allegory, metaphor, etc (which makes perfect sense), then you can't simultaneously claim it's to be taken literally. You can't have it both ways because whenever some literality presents as inconvenient it's just easily excused by "allegory".

Parables, etc. are used to more clearly express an idea to "them with the eyes to see and the ears to hear." God explains particular truths by comparing them to situations that may be hypothetical or that may be literal. However, the truth (or point) that God is trying to express is always to be taken literally.

For example, He compares the "seeds" of the seed-sower to the Gospel message. Obviously, He isn't saying the the Gospel will land on rocky soil but He is saying that not everyone who hears the Word will be willing to accept it. So, the "rocky soil" likely refers to a hardened heart that isn't ready to hear God's message. So ... I don't take literally that we are to spread literal seed but I DO take literally that we're to spread His Gospel message.

 

[Howey]

Did Longknife ever answer my question? Does he think only two networks carried this story?

 

[Statistikhengst]

That's correct. If the Bible can't be trusted as fully true then it can't be trusted at all (in my opinion). So, as a Christian, I put full trust in God's ability to reveal His will and Word to His followers. The Bible speaks of "the marriage supper of the Lamb" which speaks of the marriage between Christ and His followers. Since Christ is opposed to adultery He wouldn't marry more than one wife for He says that a leader of the Church should be married to "one wife."

You do realize that that is meant allegorically, right?

Yeshuah was never physically a lamb.

But I respect your right to interpret it literally, if you so desire.

You argumentation was interesting.

The Bible is full of allegory, metaphor, simile, and parable. But not all of the Bible is spoken in parable. It's up the reader with the help of the Holy Spirit to determine how the Bible is interpreted. Christ is called a "Lamb" because of His sacrifice -- a Lamb without blemish. The "wife," too, is allegorical but the entire 12 tribes of Israel has been referred to as a "she" or "her" which indicates that, as a whole, they are a bride. Jeremiah speaks of God "divorcing" Israel because of her harlotry.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point, but rarely are people 100% in agreement over the interpretation.

And G-d never divorced Israel, btw.

 

[DriftingSand]

You do realize that that is meant allegorically, right?

Yeshuah was never physically a lamb.

But I respect your right to interpret it literally, if you so desire.

You argumentation was interesting.

The Bible is full of allegory, metaphor, simile, and parable. But not all of the Bible is spoken in parable. It's up the reader with the help of the Holy Spirit to determine how the Bible is interpreted. Christ is called a "Lamb" because of His sacrifice -- a Lamb without blemish. The "wife," too, is allegorical but the entire 12 tribes of Israel has been referred to as a "she" or "her" which indicates that, as a whole, they are a bride. Jeremiah speaks of God "divorcing" Israel because of her harlotry.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point, but rarely are people 100% in agreement over the interpretation.

And G-d never divorced Israel, btw.

The Bible will always be seen from different perspectives depending on the reader's ability to understand what he's reading. I started studying the Bible in earnest in 1985. I saw things then that were pertinent to my maturity (from a spiritual perspective) level at the time. Today (almost 30 years later) I see things from a whole different perspective. Therefore, you're likely right that folks won't see everything eye to eye on every issue but folks who are seeking the truth should find what they need for that particular moment in life. But many of the things I found true back then are still true today -- namely, Christ's blood sacrifice.

Adding to the confusion is the myriad of various versions of the Bible that actually contradict each other from time to time. Some of the newer versions actually omit large chunks of Scripture. That's why I prefer to read Bibles from the Textus Receptus family of Bibles. More complete!!! Interestingly, the NIV is starting to literally add portions of Scripture that the KJV has always had.

 

[Statistikhengst]

The Bible is full of allegory, metaphor, simile, and parable. But not all of the Bible is spoken in parable. It's up the reader with the help of the Holy Spirit to determine how the Bible is interpreted. Christ is called a "Lamb" because of His sacrifice -- a Lamb without blemish. The "wife," too, is allegorical but the entire 12 tribes of Israel has been referred to as a "she" or "her" which indicates that, as a whole, they are a bride. Jeremiah speaks of God "divorcing" Israel because of her harlotry.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point, but rarely are people 100% in agreement over the interpretation.

And G-d never divorced Israel, btw.

The Bible will always be seen from different perspectives depending on the reader's ability to understand what he's reading. I started studying the Bible in earnest in 1985. I saw things then that were pertinent to my maturity (from a spiritual perspective) level at the time. Today (almost 30 years later) I see things from a whole different perspective. Therefore, you're likely right that folks won't see everything eye to eye on every issue but folks who are seeking the truth should find what they need for that particular moment in life. But many of the things I found true back then are still true today -- namely, Christ's blood sacrifice.

Adding to the confusion is the myriad of various versions of the Bible that actually contradict each other from time to time. Some of the newer versions actually omit large chunks of Scripture. That's why I prefer to read Bibles from the Textus Receptus family of Bibles. More complete!!! Interestingly, the NIV is starting to literally add portions of Scripture that the KJV has always had.

Thanks for adding your viewpoint and some information. I like it alot when a fellow member does that. Alot.

 

[DriftingSand]

Thanks for adding your viewpoint and some information. I like it alot when a fellow member does that. Alot.

Thanks. It's a fascinating topic. My wife and I used to host a Bible study group at my home in California. We generally had 6 to 20 folks show up. We all considered ourselves Christians but often had friendly debates on this topic or that. I always allowed myself to be "wrong" even if I felt I was right. Most of disagreements revolved around non-salvific issues so it never really mattered to me who was right or wrong. I just liked being with other Christians.

 

[Barb]

But ignore the skeptics. Wonder why?

Read more @ CBS, ABC Tout Document Claiming Jesus Had a 'Wife' But Ignore the Skeptics | NewsBusters

And these say it's not a forgery @ Scientists: 'Jesus's Wife' Papyrus Fragment No Forgery

So why do you think the skeptics weren't reported on?

Because the skeptics already have centuries of church canon reporting for them?

 

[BobPlumb]

Yes, or to put it better, the Roman Empire considered what he was saying to be quite dangerous to their authority.

There is quite a difference between the two.

Same thing, looked at from two different directions really.

Not the same. Say my next door neighbor dies in the night due to being shot. Suppose that the police arrest me. There is a major difference in me being arrested and I am guilty of shooting my neighbor and in me being arrested and I did not shoot my neighbor.

 

[Pogo]

There is quite a difference between the two.

Same thing, looked at from two different directions really.

Not the same. Say my next door neighbor dies in the night due to being shot. Suppose that the police arrest me. There is a major difference in me being arrested and I am guilty of shooting my neighbor and in me being arrested and I did not shoot my neighbor.

That analogy is absurd.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Same thing, looked at from two different directions really.

Not the same. Say my next door neighbor dies in the night due to being shot. Suppose that the police arrest me. There is a major difference in me being arrested and I am guilty of shooting my neighbor and in me being arrested and I did not shoot my neighbor.

That analogy is absurd.

Yes, indeed, I am still scratching my head over that one.

 

[jillian]

But ignore the skeptics. Wonder why?

Read more @ CBS, ABC Tout Document Claiming Jesus Had a 'Wife' But Ignore the Skeptics | NewsBusters

And these say it's not a forgery @ Scientists: 'Jesus's Wife' Papyrus Fragment No Forgery

Jesus' "wife" is the Church.

Ephesians 5:25, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;"

No, you can't do that. Analogy is not equation.

you also can't use the bible to prove or disprove historic or scientific fact.

 

[jillian]

no... it was not "jews" who demanded anything. it was rome who killed jesus because he preached revolution against rome. the sandhedrin didn't much like him because the high priests were appointed by rome at that time.... which was actually one of the things jesus and every other insurrectionist who called himself messiah preached in those days.

what earthquake in the temple?

Jesus preached revolution against Rome?

Whether directly or indirectly (and doing it indirectly would keep you alive a lot longer), of course he did. That's why he was executed. The Jews were in the midst of a period of 300 years of being under the Roman thumb. Of course there were insurrections, overt and covert. And Rome had a special penalty for those who rose against the State, and that penalty was .... crucifixion.

The Romans certainly didn't give a shit about religious preaching. What they were concerned about was earthly kings in earthly kingdoms, not abstract ethereal ideas of the hereafter. Some of Jesus' words (if we are to believe the reporters thereof, which is very dicey) can be heard as not-so-subtle allusions to political uprising, e.g. establishing the "kingdom of heaven". Heaven is not what wets the Romans' whistle; kingdom is. That's also what's behind the bizarre cat-and-mouse questioning with Pilate.

exactly.

not only did rome not care about religious preaching, rome demanded that the high priest make sacrifices in honor of rome... most jews thought that was sacrilege it inflamed the populous.

 

[DriftingSand]

Jesus' "wife" is the Church.

Ephesians 5:25, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;"

No, you can't do that. Analogy is not equation.

I don't consider what's said in the verse I quoted to be analogy. I believe that Christ will be a Husband to the Church in the sense that He will love and protect His followers just as a man will protect and love His wife.

 

[jillian]

Jesus' "wife" is the Church.

Ephesians 5:25, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;"

No, you can't do that. Analogy is not equation.

I don't consider what's said in the verse I quoted to be analogy. I believe that Christ will be a Husband to the Church in the sense that He will love and protect His followers just as a man will protect and love His wife.

again... there WAS NO CHURCH. there was a TEMPLE

 

[DriftingSand]

you also can't use the bible to prove or disprove historic or scientific fact.

I believe that you are incorrect. I believe that the Bible contains much historical fact and that it also touches on science. Actually, the word "science" literally means "knowledge." Since I believe God to be the Creator and Author of all knowledge then I believe that the Bible is an important source of knowledge.

 

[jillian]

you also can't use the bible to prove or disprove historic or scientific fact.

I believe that you are incorrect. I believe that the Bible contains much historical fact and that it also touches on science. Actually, the word "science" literally means "knowledge." Since I believe God to be the Creator and Author of all knowledge then I believe that the Bible is an important source of knowledge.

the bible, even if it contains "some" historical information is not history...

the first gospel wasn't even written for 40 to 70 years after jesus' death

 

[Pogo]

you also can't use the bible to prove or disprove historic or scientific fact.

I believe that you are incorrect. I believe that the Bible contains much historical fact and that it also touches on science. Actually, the word "science" literally means "knowledge." Since I believe God to be the Creator and Author of all knowledge then I believe that the Bible is an important source of knowledge.

the bible, even if it contains "some" historical information is not history...

the first gospel wasn't even written for 40 to 70 years after jesus' death

Nor was it intended to be history -- it's ad copy to sell a religion.