Jewish testimonies (I absolutely love these)

[buttercup]

PS---I do not believe that the historic Jesus said that

No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)

Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?

And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.​

We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).

Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.

 

[Andylusion]

Some believed in God and came from religious families, others grew up in families that went to Synagogue but it was more of a cultural or tradition thing. Most of the ones who grew up going to Synagogue said that it felt empty, they could not feel God's presence and power, it was more like people going through the motions.

I have been to Synagogue(s) and would like to note there was no problem feeling God's presence and power--not to mention feeling the worship and adoration of His people. They were uplifting and moving experiences--God with His people; people with God.

I'm not real big into 'feeling' G-d. G-d is not a 'feeling'. People on Heroin have feelings. People on LCD swear they fan feel the spirits too. You can get a feeling watching a movie, or going to your daughters first dance, or seeing your son play the violin.

If you have ever read some of the stories from prison, people who have committed the most horrible things in the world, had a great 'feeling' about it.

And honestly, as it relates to G-d, most of the time, when you really meet with G-d, you don't have this warm fuzzy feeling. It's more of a fear and awe. How many times, did the prophets fall to their face, when G-d showed up?

Even some of the testimonies posted here on this thread, the people were not just all warm fuzzy with oowy goowy feelings. That one guy said his hands were shaking, and he trembled. That is what real meeting with the created of all things is like, than a some feeling. I can get a warm feeling, eating a pizza and watching a good movie.

 

[Meriweather]

BTW, I don’t have that much time right now but I just wanted to add, you do know that the Bible says you cannot get to the Father without the son, right? “No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” Jesus and the father are one.

Precisely. Jesus showed and taught The Way. He said he was The Way. People can be on The Way without knowing it is The Way of Jesus. Keep in mind Jesus said he had come for those who had lost their way, not for those already on the way. He noted people who are well have no need of a physician.

 

[fncceo]

Annas and Caiaphas were not a great example of Jewish leadership

We will never really know, given that the bulk of their documented history was written a century or so after they died by persons with a vested interest in making them look like right bastards.

Like Shakespeare's version of Richard III, a complete fabrication of historical fact.

Yes, Jews had a temple tax. Today, there are dues for belonging to a shul. Then, like now, the poorest of the congregants were exempt from that obligation. Jews aren't allowed to carry money on Sabbath so the act of 'passing the plate' would not pay the bills.

Everyone religion solicits funds to keep their operations going. The oil might have lasted for eight days, but you still have to buy more on the ninth.

 

[Andylusion]

I was merely relaying what THEY said. Several of them said that. Respectfully, what you personally experienced is not the issue, it is what these people experienced in their life before they came to Christ.

I understand, but I also understand some Christians who converted to Judaism also felt they had never felt the presence of God until then. It is not a unique experience just for those converting to Christianity.

That seems odd to me.

How does one "convert" to Judaism from Christianity? In all honesty, that should not even be possible, because a Christian believes absolutely everything that Judaism teaches.

Even with Jesus, all Jews know and believe that Jesus existed and walked on Earth, that he did signs and wonders. The only question was, is he the messiah.

Well how we know he was the messiah, is from everything Judaism teaches. That's where we get it from.

I'm wondering if perhaps the person who claims to have converted from Christianity to Judaism, was not really a Christian?

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.

Jews, Rabbis, and scholars also go back to the life and times of the original author and the original author's intent. Doing so takes nothing away from Isaiah, and it certainly takes nothing away from Jesus. In fact together it is more glorious. Matthew was a brilliant author. One of Christ's most potent credentials is how his life was the life of the Jewish people. Matthew used the Old Testament as a foreshadowing of the New Testament. In many respects, if one knew the Old Testament they knew the life of Christ; and, if one knew the New Testament they had a basic background of Jewish scripture.

No one should be dividing "This story mine, this story theirs." They are ours.

 

[fncceo]

you do know that the Bible says you cannot get to the Father without the son, right?

Not my Bible.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not real big into 'feeling' G-d. G-d is not a 'feeling'. People on Heroin have feelings. People on LCD swear they fan feel the spirits too. You can get a feeling watching a movie, or going to your daughters first dance, or seeing your son play the violin.

If you have ever read some of the stories from prison, people who have committed the most horrible things in the world, had a great 'feeling' about it.

And honestly, as it relates to G-d, most of the time, when you really meet with G-d, you don't have this warm fuzzy feeling. It's more of a fear and awe. How many times, did the prophets fall to their face, when G-d showed up?

Even some of the testimonies posted here on this thread, the people were not just all warm fuzzy with oowy goowy feelings. That one guy said his hands were shaking, and he trembled. That is what real meeting with the created of all things is like, than a some feeling. I can get a warm feeling, eating a pizza and watching a good movie.

I understand what you are saying. Let's see if I can put it better. Some experiences in Church or Synagogue can be very moving experiences. Isiah 11:2 puts it nicely when it speaks about the spirit of God will rest upon him...a spirit of understanding...

This is the spirit of God we can sometimes "feel"--something that comes from something greater than self.

 

[fncceo]

because a Christian believes absolutely everything that Judaism teaches.

And more than a few things Judaism profoundly rejects.

 

[Andylusion]

because a Christian believes absolutely everything that Judaism teaches.

And more than a few things Judaism profoundly rejects.

Like what specifically?

 

[Meriweather]

How does one "convert" to Judaism from Christianity? In all honesty, that should not even be possible, because a Christian believes absolutely everything that Judaism teaches.

"Convert" may have been the wrong word, I do not know. What I do know is that people of the Jewish faith are quite clear in letting those entering into the Jewish faith know that it means giving up the idea that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and one with God.

 

[fncceo]

because a Christian believes absolutely everything that Judaism teaches.

And more than a few things Judaism profoundly rejects.

Like what specifically?

The concept of polytheism and a god with relatives is anathema to Judaism, in which monotheism is inviolate.

 

[captkaos]

I believe I'm going to be sick.

Not really surprising, since the Gospel is foolishness to the spiritually blind.

The Gospel is foolishness! Belief in Aliens is just as believable!. Their are Hindu texts thousands of years older than any Christian writings. The Bible was not written until almost 900 yrs after the alleged incident. Whisper "Buttercup is a yellow flower with long thorns and a big booty" at a Party! Then ask that person to pass it on to someone else and so on.. tell them to listen carefully cause you are only going to say it once. Sit back and wait for what comes out at the end of the night. Then think about 900 yrs.

 

[buttercup]

I believe I'm going to be sick.

Not really surprising, since the Gospel is foolishness to the spiritually blind.

The Gospel is foolishness! Belief in Aliens is just as believable!. Their are Hindu texts thousands of years older than any Christian writings. The Bible was not written until almost 900 yrs after the alleged incident. Whisper "Buttercup is a yellow flower with long thorns and a big booty" at a Party! Then ask that person to pass it on to someone else and so on.. tell them to listen carefully cause you are only going to say it once. Sit back and wait for what comes out at the end of the night. Then think about 900 yrs.

You're proving that scripture correct! haha See for yourself. And this one too.

As for your statement about when the bible was written, that is completely false. But since this is off topic and I don't want to get sidetracked, I HIGHLY recommend you read the book 'The Case For Christ' by Lee Strobel. It addresses those exact topics you brought up, and more. It's an excellent book, and an interesting read, so IF you sincerely want to seek the truth and learn new things, then just read that book.

 

[buttercup]

I stumbled upon this video, and it is so good! If you guys have a few minutes, just watch it.




ETA: And this follow up video. Oh my goodness, this is so, SO cool! Tears in my eyes!

 

[Andylusion]

because a Christian believes absolutely everything that Judaism teaches.

And more than a few things Judaism profoundly rejects.

Like what specifically?

The concept of polytheism and a god with relatives is anathema to Judaism, in which monotheism is inviolate.

Genesis 1:26
“Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’”

I don't understand how the trinity works either. Three in one. How does that work?

But I have come to accept the idea that there are aspects of G-d, that me as a limited human being, am not capable of understanding.

 

[Andylusion]

I believe I'm going to be sick.

Not really surprising, since the Gospel is foolishness to the spiritually blind.

The Gospel is foolishness! Belief in Aliens is just as believable!. Their are Hindu texts thousands of years older than any Christian writings. The Bible was not written until almost 900 yrs after the alleged incident. Whisper "Buttercup is a yellow flower with long thorns and a big booty" at a Party! Then ask that person to pass it on to someone else and so on.. tell them to listen carefully cause you are only going to say it once. Sit back and wait for what comes out at the end of the night. Then think about 900 yrs.

The Bible was not written 900 years after the 'incident'. First there were a number of 'incidences', so depending on which incident you are referring to, there were books written thousands of years before the incident, that referred to the incident that would come.

Regardless, while some text are older than others, I don't see anything about being old, that applies accuracy.

 

[irosie91]

PS---I do not believe that the historic Jesus said that

No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)

Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?

And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.​

We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).

Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.

you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?

 

[irosie91]

Repentance for sin is not a concept unknown to Judaism. It didn't start with Jesus, it was the corner stone of the Jewish faith two thousand years before Jesus was even born.

Absolutely. Hosea 6:6 - For I desire mercy not sacrifice...

Jesus lived in an unusual time. Rome had take over most of the land, and so many in Israel were very poor. At the same time, the Temple had been rebuilt, and many took this as a sign of the coming Messiah. Annas and Caiaphas were not a great example of Jewish leadership, and the Temple tax or making it felt that people should offer sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins was encouraged, probably urged. This being the case, people of every age, can admire Jesus for standing firmly (and proclaiming) it was repentance (not sacrifice) for the forgiveness of sins.

People were no different in that day--anything that would cut into the revenue of the powerful was a risky thing to do. The Gospels describe how some Temple officials had a habit of keeping an eye on Jesus, most likely for this very reason.

I can understand why people of the Jewish faith will not/cannon consider Jesus as one with God. I simply don't understand why they do not see how he risked, and finally gave his life, for the true tenets of Judaism.

your grasp of history is a bit ludicrous-----both Annas and Caiaphas were Roman
shills and not considered by the masses back then or today to have been Jewish leaders -----especially by the Pharisees ----like Jesus. The Temple tax was very
trivial and not even enforced. It is very likely that people like Annas and Caiaphas did not like Jesus-----they despised Pharisees for resisting roman rule

 

[buttercup]

PS---I do not believe that the historic Jesus said that

No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)

Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?

And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.​

We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).

Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.

you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?

First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?

Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.

Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.

Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.