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We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).PS---I do not believe that the historic Jesus said that
No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)
Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).PS---I do not believe that the historic Jesus said that
No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)
Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).PS---I do not believe that the historic Jesus said that
No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)
Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)
Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
in general-----rabbis do not "READ TO THEIR CONGREGATIONS" ----- and the books are not censored "Forbidden" means "not permitted" I heard all kinds
of silly stuff in my life-time. I can assure you, it some rabbi decided to SKIP-----
something-----everyone would be eager to read it
We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).PS---I do not believe that the historic Jesus said that
No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)
Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
Rabbi Singer: Did Jews Deliberately Hide Isaiah 53, Daniel & Zechariah?
Missionaries and Christian universities who target Jews for conversion claim that the Jews purposefully removed Isaiah 53 from the Sabbath Haftorah reading. They argue that the rabbis are so scared that worshipers, upon hearing Isaiah 53 read from the pulpit, might bolt from their synagogues and head for the nearest Christian baptismal pool. In fact, Messianic groups insist that rabbis conspired to conceal Daniel 9 and Zechariah 12:10 as well! Are these charges valid? In this powerful presentation, Rabbi Tovia Singer explores Scripture and Jewish history as he demonstrates that these well-worn claims are absurd and fabricated.
What will the missionaries here claim now,
that Rabbi Tovia Singer shlit"a didn't KNOW he was supposed to hide those?
We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)
Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).No one claimed that Jesus said that. It isn't the words of Jesus. It is a prophetic passage, Isaiah 53, and I think the words speak for themselves on who it is about. I'll go ahead and post it, just in case anyone here has never read it. (I added the bold)
Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
And that's the thing. It's the ones with lack of knowledge that are the most vocal/self opinionated.
Dialogue is a waste of time.
We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
I don't think anyone claimed that ALL rabbis skip Isaiah 53, how could anyone possibly know that anyway, unless one is omniscient? But perhaps other people have a different experience than yours. No matter what, the fact remains that many of the Messianic Jews who share their story clearly state that Isaiah 53 was at least one of the things that brought them to faith in Yeshua. That is what's noteworthy, in my view, and that's why I said that those claims make sense. In fact, if you were to watch some of the testimony videos, some of them said that they had never even read Isaiah 53 until someone ELSE brought it up to them... and some of them stated what is Jesus doing in the Old Testament? As I said earlier, that is just one passage, there are hundreds, including many that are very, very specific.
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
I don't think anyone claimed that ALL rabbis skip Isaiah 53, how could anyone possibly know that anyway, unless one is omniscient? But perhaps other people have a different experience than yours. No matter what, the fact remains that many of the Messianic Jews who share their story clearly state that Isaiah 53 was at least one of the things that brought them to faith in Yeshua. That is what's noteworthy, in my view, and that's why I said that those claims make sense. In fact, if you were to watch some of the testimony videos, some of them said that they had never even read Isaiah 53 until someone ELSE brought it up to them... and some of them stated what is Jesus doing in the Old Testament? As I said earlier, that is just one passage, there are hundreds, including many that are very, very specific.
Hundreds of passages that have been chopped out or just ----purposely----
IGNORED? I am fascinated----can you post a few?
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
I don't think anyone claimed that ALL rabbis skip Isaiah 53, how could anyone possibly know that anyway, unless one is omniscient? But perhaps other people have a different experience than yours. No matter what, the fact remains that many of the Messianic Jews who share their story clearly state that Isaiah 53 was at least one of the things that brought them to faith in Yeshua. That is what's noteworthy, in my view, and that's why I said that those claims make sense. In fact, if you were to watch some of the testimony videos, some of them said that they had never even read Isaiah 53 until someone ELSE brought it up to them... and some of them stated what is Jesus doing in the Old Testament? As I said earlier, that is just one passage, there are hundreds, including many that are very, very specific.
Hundreds of passages that have been chopped out or just ----purposely----
IGNORED? I am fascinated----can you post a few?
No, no, no, once again you're misunderstanding. I never said that they were ignored, or chopped out. I was talking about MESSIANIC prophecies, prophetic scriptures about the Messiah.
It's super late here so I don't think I'm going to have enough time to round up hundreds of messianic scriptures for you. But if I have time tomorrow I will see what I can do.
Daniel Goldhagen, Harvard scholar and author of the controversial Hitler's Willing Executioners, argues that philo-Semites are often closet anti-Semites. His detractor Norman Finkelstein agrees. The thesis is that Jew haters feel a need to talk about Jews, and with anti-Semitism no longer being socially acceptable they must instead make exaggerated positive statements.......
Wiki.
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
I don't think anyone claimed that ALL rabbis skip Isaiah 53, how could anyone possibly know that anyway, unless one is omniscient? But perhaps other people have a different experience than yours. No matter what, the fact remains that many of the Messianic Jews who share their story clearly state that Isaiah 53 was at least one of the things that brought them to faith in Yeshua. That is what's noteworthy, in my view, and that's why I said that those claims make sense. In fact, if you were to watch some of the testimony videos, some of them said that they had never even read Isaiah 53 until someone ELSE brought it up to them... and some of them stated what is Jesus doing in the Old Testament? As I said earlier, that is just one passage, there are hundreds, including many that are very, very specific.
Hundreds of passages that have been chopped out or just ----purposely----
IGNORED? I am fascinated----can you post a few?
No, no, no, once again you're misunderstanding. I never said that they were ignored, or chopped out. I was talking about MESSIANIC prophecies, prophetic scriptures about the Messiah.
It's super late here so I don't think I'm going to have enough time to round up hundreds of messianic scriptures for you. But if I have time tomorrow I will see what I can do.
I do not need 'HUNDREDS"------just a few. As to messianic prophecies----
they are certainly NOT ignored or deleted. Seems to me that you have
never really been in a synagogue or if you were, did not have a grasp of what goes
on in one.
We should also keep in mind that people of the Jewish faith see this passage as being about Israel as a whole. Israel was wounded for their transgressions (speaking of current events of Isaiah's day).
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
I don't think anyone claimed that ALL rabbis skip Isaiah 53, how could anyone possibly know that anyway, unless one is omniscient? But perhaps other people have a different experience than yours. No matter what, the fact remains that many of the Messianic Jews who share their story clearly state that Isaiah 53 was at least one of the things that brought them to faith in Yeshua. That is what's noteworthy, in my view, and that's why I said that those claims make sense. In fact, if you were to watch some of the testimony videos, some of them said that they had never even read Isaiah 53 until someone ELSE brought it up to them... and some of them stated what is Jesus doing in the Old Testament? As I said earlier, that is just one passage, there are hundreds, including many that are very, very specific.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
I don't think anyone claimed that ALL rabbis skip Isaiah 53, how could anyone possibly know that anyway, unless one is omniscient? But perhaps other people have a different experience than yours. No matter what, the fact remains that many of the Messianic Jews who share their story clearly state that Isaiah 53 was at least one of the things that brought them to faith in Yeshua. That is what's noteworthy, in my view, and that's why I said that those claims make sense. In fact, if you were to watch some of the testimony videos, some of them said that they had never even read Isaiah 53 until someone ELSE brought it up to them... and some of them stated what is Jesus doing in the Old Testament? As I said earlier, that is just one passage, there are hundreds, including many that are very, very specific.
Hundreds of passages that have been chopped out or just ----purposely----
IGNORED? I am fascinated----can you post a few?
No, no, no, once again you're misunderstanding. I never said that they were ignored, or chopped out. I was talking about MESSIANIC prophecies, prophetic scriptures about the Messiah.
It's super late here so I don't think I'm going to have enough time to round up hundreds of messianic scriptures for you. But if I have time tomorrow I will see what I can do.
I do not need 'HUNDREDS"------just a few. As to messianic prophecies----
they are certainly NOT ignored or deleted. Seems to me that you have
never really been in a synagogue or if you were, did not have a grasp of what goes
on in one.
That is what I just said! I just finished saying that I never said they were ignored or chopped out. My point was simply that hundreds of messianic prophecies exist in the Bible that Jesus fulfilled. Many of them, in a very specific way.
So why would you say "they are not being ignored or deleted" when I just finished saying that I never claimed that? We were talking about Isaiah 53 earlier, THAT particular one is what some have claimed is skipped over. But when I was talking about the hundreds of others, that was simply to say that Jesus fulfilled them.
Now, I'm beginning to wonder if you just keep misunderstanding me, or if you're purposely misrepresenting what I'm saying…. which is it?
Your evengelism is wasted on anyone who understands the twisted theology of Christianity in all it’s sadistic perversity.
Yes, I’m aware of that, in fact one of the guys here and I talked about that earlier. I hope you would agree that what is important is not how modern day rabbis interpret that passage, but what it truly means, who it is truly about. So, so, so many Jewish people have come to Yeshua based on that chapter. When you read it, it is clear who it’s about, it comes alive, it speaks to you. As a matter fact, it has been called the “forbidden chapter” because from what I’ve heard, many rabbis skip over it, they don’t read it to their congregation, because they know that many people have come to Christ through that passage, or at least it opens the door for them to do further seeking, and then they eventually come to faith in Yashua/Jesus.
you believe lots of idiotic things-----did some nun tell you that jews are "NOT PERMITTED" to read Isaiah------or they have to wait around to be READ TO by
some rabbi? ------you remind me of the kids in the plaid jumpers of my childhood---
the ones who emerged from the "CATHOLIC SCHOOL" Long ago---in my mid-teens----I studied Hebrew as a second language. None of Isaiah "speaks"
to you unless you read it in Hebrew. Isaiah is far from proscribed ---I MEMORIZED whole passages. Are catholics still being told not to read the OT?
First of all, I'm not Catholic. Why so many assumptions?
Secondly, I never used the phrase "not permitted." I mentioned that it has been called the "forbidden chapter" but those are not MY words. I was saying that is what others call it.
Thirdly, it is JEWISH believers who have said that most rabbis skip over Isaiah 53 and do not read it to their congregation. I posted a video a little earlier on that topic, hopefully you will watch it.
Are you claiming they are wrong? If so, perhaps YOUR experiences are different. I have heard many times, from different sources, that these days rabbis don't read Isaiah 53 to their people. I have no reason to doubt that, in fact it makes perfect sense, considering the fact that many, many Messianic Jews come to faith in Yeshua at least in part based on that chapter.
You're just demonstrating your lack of knowledge of anything having to do with Jews.
The entire Chumash is read aloud in shul each year in 54 weekly portions, called parsha.
Every shul in the world reads the same portions on the same dates.
Nothing is ommitted.
I don't think anyone claimed that ALL rabbis skip Isaiah 53, how could anyone possibly know that anyway, unless one is omniscient? But perhaps other people have a different experience than yours. No matter what, the fact remains that many of the Messianic Jews who share their story clearly state that Isaiah 53 was at least one of the things that brought them to faith in Yeshua. That is what's noteworthy, in my view, and that's why I said that those claims make sense. In fact, if you were to watch some of the testimony videos, some of them said that they had never even read Isaiah 53 until someone ELSE brought it up to them... and some of them stated what is Jesus doing in the Old Testament? As I said earlier, that is just one passage, there are hundreds, including many that are very, very specific.
the operative statement here is ".....some of them said that they had never
read Isaiah 53 until someone ELSE brought it up..... " so the missionary
targeted people are jews who never read Isaiah------and got it introduced
and interpreted for them by a Christian missionary. The JW's like to do stuff like that too. ---door to door---------even hindus could play that game----if they
wanted to. The Bhagavad Gita is chock full of fascinating insights
