Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual

[Phoenall]

Nope nope, and nope. For the tenth time, there are 1.8 million Arab Muslims, about a quarter of Israel's population, that live as Israeli citizens with the exact same rights. While being a Jew certainly give's a "preference" to becoming a citizen of Israel, it by no means BARS people of other religions from becoming citizens. Israel is a democratic nation with freedom of speech and elections which respects people's of all religions and races, which are about as close to America's core values as you can get.

Meanwhile, 99% of Muslim countries are shitholes of oppression, corruption, intolerance, and persecution, with values that run 180 degrees the opposite of our American values.

Boozeman.

You are not addressing what I posted. You have to actually read what the Israeli government clearly says in its website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality


...For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country...


That is something that would never happen in America. Something that our founders would never have gone for and also something that our supreme court would never uphold. Again, there is no reason for name calling. I am not asking you to agree with my American values. I do not begrudge you the right to believe in the values of whatever country you come from or hold allegiance to. In my case, I am an American and I support the idea that religion should never be a determining factor in granting citizenship in any country that wants to claim to be free and democratic.

Nobody is asking you to change your delusional un American IslamoNazi values. Israel was voted by the international community as a Jewish state. Hence it gives preference to those of Jewish ancestry who are escaping oppression, persecution, and stupid bigoted idiots like you. Period end of story.

Don't forget that the LoN made it a requisite to the mandated powers to allow the migration of any Jew who wanted to migrate to Israel.

 

[Phoenall]

Do you not know the history of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.
Dear dear.

Well it is a good long story. You can continue your information gathering here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc7sOb7IsPY

Apart from that rather obvious example, the US gives treasure and sacrifices credibility every day by its support of Israel. Though you are not allowed to say it 9/11 and the general Jihad against America is due to its unjust treatment of "lesser people" more than a little, The Palestinians.

Of course this is not just due to ignorance in America. Nor is it just down to oil industry interests. Or to War Industry interests. Not even all down to Zionist supporters (mostly Christian, by the way - nutty Christians, but still Christians).

But overall the US sacrifices wealth, credibility, strategic advantage, natural allies, and economic advantage in the cause of supporting the quite obviously racist and semi-fascist Israeli state.

I don't say that Russia and Europe don't (Germany in particular are a great supporter of them), but the US doesn't even allow criticism of the place, when it does utterly evil acts.

Thankfully, the new generation have noticed and are getting around the closed-shop of obsequious news reporting and avoidance of objective reporting.

Anything unclear Lipush?

The USS Liberty which was a converted WW2 freighter that was not supposed to be there and did not exist according to USA sources. It also looked very much like many Egyptian navy vessels being of the same type and general design. So a mistake by the USA to not inform Israel that the vessel was there and to avoid it

You didn't watch the documentary did you?
Or if you did, you turned your mind off.

Don't need to as I have done my research and know all the facts. care to deny the facts as posted

 

[Hossfly]

Eh?

Are you suggesting Israel does not imprison and kill children Hoss? Or do you think beating and isolating prepubescent kids by the Israel security forces isn't torture?

Make yourself plain man!

The security force doesn't do anything that is illegal or immoral. Those murder and torture are just old islamic terrorists wives tales.

 

[Phoenall]

The explanation is simple, bub. Americans are prepared to back up that simple declaration-"Never Again". Capisce?

Actually Horsefly, no. No you are not.
You are all for protecting Israel, but you are more than happy to see them commit a gradual genocide on Palestinians.
America - along with the rest of the world stood by as a genocide happened in Rwanda.

Maybe you think 'Never Again' means "Never Jewish People" again, as victims, but "YES Jewish people as the perps, if they are Israeli."

Thankfully many just Jewish people reject the whole bigotry which is Israel, so the special status of that place as the home of victimhood is revealed as a bit of misdirection.

The US is, sadly, party to very many war crimes by its Israeli friend. Sadly the Israeli world view is stuck in the 18th Century, when some thought ethnic purity was a thing to be desired. On examination, Israel has adopting very many of the attitudes popular in Nazi Germany.

So has the US.

I believe if you check up you will find that Islamic nations have committed more war crimes and crimes against humanity. And the muslims have adopted the NAZI principles and attitudes as proven by their many actions and charters

 

[Beelzebub]

Well, Hoss.

You are clearly a True Believer. Your head is so full of stars of david swirling in red and white stripes it must make you dizzy.
One day they will bite you in the arse again, and you will have to cover up, again, as you did with The USS Liberty.

In the meantime, here is another example of how you betray your own nation by elevating Israel to the notional state of your bff:

http://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757

Whatever happened to honor among thieves? When the National Security Agency was caught eavesdropping on German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cell phone, it was considered a rude way to treat a friend. Now U.S. intelligence officials are saying—albeit very quietly, behind closed doors on Capitol Hill—that our Israeli “friends” have gone too far with their spying operations here.

According to classified briefings on legislation that would lower visa restrictions on Israeli citizens, Jerusalem’s efforts to steal U.S. secrets under the cover of trade missions and joint defense technology contracts have “crossed red lines.”

Israel’s espionage activities in America are unrivaled and unseemly, counterspies have told members of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs committees, going far beyond activities by other close allies, such as Germany, France, the U.K. and Japan. A congressional staffer familiar with a briefing last January called the testimony “very sobering…alarming…even terrifying.” Another staffer called it “damaging.”

The Jewish state’s primary target: America’s industrial and technical secrets.

“No other country close to the United States continues to cross the line on espionage like the Israelis do,” said a former congressional staffer who attended another classified briefing in late 2013, one of several in recent months given by officials from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the State Department, the FBI and the National Counterintelligence Directorate.

 

[Hossfly]

Well, Hoss.

You are clearly a True Believer. Your head is so full of stars of david swirling in red and white stripes it must make you dizzy.
One day they will bite you in the arse again, and you will have to cover up, again, as you did with The USS Liberty.

In the meantime, here is another example of how you betray your own nation by elevating Israel to the notional state of your bff:

http://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757

Whatever happened to honor among thieves? When the National Security Agency was caught eavesdropping on German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cell phone, it was considered a rude way to treat a friend. Now U.S. intelligence officials are saying—albeit very quietly, behind closed doors on Capitol Hill—that our Israeli “friends” have gone too far with their spying operations here.

According to classified briefings on legislation that would lower visa restrictions on Israeli citizens, Jerusalem’s efforts to steal U.S. secrets under the cover of trade missions and joint defense technology contracts have “crossed red lines.”

Israel’s espionage activities in America are unrivaled and unseemly, counterspies have told members of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs committees, going far beyond activities by other close allies, such as Germany, France, the U.K. and Japan. A congressional staffer familiar with a briefing last January called the testimony “very sobering…alarming…even terrifying.” Another staffer called it “damaging.”

The Jewish state’s primary target: America’s industrial and technical secrets.

“No other country close to the United States continues to cross the line on espionage like the Israelis do,” said a former congressional staffer who attended another classified briefing in late 2013, one of several in recent months given by officials from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the State Department, the FBI and the National Counterintelligence Directorate.

Looks like I'm your huckleberry.

 

[Beelzebub]

You wish.

 

[Kondor3]

Well, Hoss.

You are clearly a True Believer. Your head is so full of stars of david swirling in red and white stripes it must make you dizzy.
One day they will bite you in the arse again, and you will have to cover up, again, as you did with The USS Liberty.

In the meantime, here is another example of how you betray your own nation by elevating Israel to the notional state of your bff:

http://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757

Whatever happened to honor among thieves? When the National Security Agency was caught eavesdropping on German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cell phone, it was considered a rude way to treat a friend. Now U.S. intelligence officials are saying—albeit very quietly, behind closed doors on Capitol Hill—that our Israeli “friends” have gone too far with their spying operations here.

According to classified briefings on legislation that would lower visa restrictions on Israeli citizens, Jerusalem’s efforts to steal U.S. secrets under the cover of trade missions and joint defense technology contracts have “crossed red lines.”

Israel’s espionage activities in America are unrivaled and unseemly, counterspies have told members of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs committees, going far beyond activities by other close allies, such as Germany, France, the U.K. and Japan. A congressional staffer familiar with a briefing last January called the testimony “very sobering…alarming…even terrifying.” Another staffer called it “damaging.”

The Jewish state’s primary target: America’s industrial and technical secrets.

“No other country close to the United States continues to cross the line on espionage like the Israelis do,” said a former congressional staffer who attended another classified briefing in late 2013, one of several in recent months given by officials from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the State Department, the FBI and the National Counterintelligence Directorate.

Looks like I'm your huckleberry.

You're giving yourself far too little credit, Hoss!

 

[bluesman]

Nope nope, and nope. For the tenth time, there are 1.8 million Arab Muslims, about a quarter of Israel's population, that live as Israeli citizens with the exact same rights. While being a Jew certainly give's a "preference" to becoming a citizen of Israel, it by no means BARS people of other religions from becoming citizens. Israel is a democratic nation with freedom of speech and elections which respects people's of all religions and races, which are about as close to America's core values as you can get.

Meanwhile, 99% of Muslim countries are shitholes of oppression, corruption, intolerance, and persecution, with values that run 180 degrees the opposite of our American values.

Boozeman.

You are not addressing what I posted. You have to actually read what the Israeli government clearly says in its website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality


...For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country...


That is something that would never happen in America. Something that our founders would never have gone for and also something that our supreme court would never uphold. Again, there is no reason for name calling. I am not asking you to agree with my American values. I do not begrudge you the right to believe in the values of whatever country you come from or hold allegiance to. In my case, I am an American and I support the idea that religion should never be a determining factor in granting citizenship in any country that wants to claim to be free and democratic.

Nobody is asking you to change your delusional un American IslamoNazi values. Israel was voted by the international community as a Jewish state. Hence it gives preference to those of Jewish ancestry who are escaping oppression, persecution, and stupid bigoted idiots like you. Period end of story.

See, instead of addressing what I posted, you are attacking me personally. I am not the one who posted the Israeli law on their website. There is no reason to defend your bias; all you have to do is embrace core American values and you will then agree that using religion as a determining factor for citizenship is something that does not match our values. I don't know why pointing that out would piss off any true constitutionalist or American. However, if you are from somewhere else, then I am not asking you to simply adopt our ideals. I am not pissed of at you for supporting the practice of using religion as a determining factor for citizenship. We just disagree about it. It isn't something that should make you want attack me personally.

 

[RoccoR]

bluesman, Roudy, et al,

Of what importance is any of this in the reality of today, and any greivance the Arab-Palestinian may have.

You are not addressing what I posted. You have to actually read what the Israeli government clearly says in its website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality

...For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country...


That is something that would never happen in America. Something that our founders would never have gone for and also something that our supreme court would never uphold. Again, there is no reason for name calling. I am not asking you to agree with my American values. I do not begrudge you the right to believe in the values of whatever country you come from or hold allegiance to. In my case, I am an American and I support the idea that religion should never be a determining factor in granting citizenship in any country that wants to claim to be free and democratic.

Nobody is asking you to change your delusional un American IslamoNazi values. Israel was voted by the international community as a Jewish state. Hence it gives preference to those of Jewish ancestry who are escaping oppression, persecution, and stupid bigoted idiots like you. Period end of story.

See, instead of addressing what I posted, you are attacking me personally. I am not the one who posted the Israeli law on their website. There is no reason to defend your bias; all you have to do is embrace core American values and you will then agree that using religion as a determining factor for citizenship is something that does not match our values. I don't know why pointing that out would piss off any true constitutionalist or American. However, if you are from somewhere else, then I am not asking you to simply adopt our ideals. I am not pissed of at you for supporting the practice of using religion as a determining factor for citizenship. We just disagree about it. It isn't something that should make you want attack me personally.

(COMMENT)

Every nation had the absolute right to establish the criteria for citizenship. Even Arab States have rules on citizenship.

It is not in the jurisdiction for outside/external influences to critique domestic law relative to these issues of nationality and citizenship. It is solely in the purview of the Israelis to determine the criteria pertaining to eligibilities --- just as it is for any other country.

What is the purpose of this discussion? What is it suppose to either prove or disprove?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Beelzebub]

Every nation had the absolute right to establish the criteria for citizenship. Even Arab States have rules on citizenship.

It is not in the jurisdiction for outside/external influences to critique domestic law relative to these issues of nationality and citizenship. It is solely in the purview of the Israelis to determine the criteria pertaining to eligibilities --- just as it is for any other country.

What is the purpose of this discussion? What is it suppose to either prove or disprove?

Most Respectfully,
R

Maybe so.
Though on the other hand no nation has the right to demand approval of its self-definition, from another nation.

In the case of Israel they very specifically have not even defined themselves in law as a 'Jewish State' and have refused to define what they think that might mean.

So where does that leave you?

 

[montelatici]

You are not addressing what I posted. You have to actually read what the Israeli government clearly says in its website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality


...For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country...


That is something that would never happen in America. Something that our founders would never have gone for and also something that our supreme court would never uphold. Again, there is no reason for name calling. I am not asking you to agree with my American values. I do not begrudge you the right to believe in the values of whatever country you come from or hold allegiance to. In my case, I am an American and I support the idea that religion should never be a determining factor in granting citizenship in any country that wants to claim to be free and democratic.

Nobody is asking you to change your delusional un American IslamoNazi values. Israel was voted by the international community as a Jewish state. Hence it gives preference to those of Jewish ancestry who are escaping oppression, persecution, and stupid bigoted idiots like you. Period end of story.

See, instead of addressing what I posted, you are attacking me personally. I am not the one who posted the Israeli law on their website. There is no reason to defend your bias; all you have to do is embrace core American values and you will then agree that using religion as a determining factor for citizenship is something that does not match our values. I don't know why pointing that out would piss off any true constitutionalist or American. However, if you are from somewhere else, then I am not asking you to simply adopt our ideals. I am not pissed of at you for supporting the practice of using religion as a determining factor for citizenship. We just disagree about it. It isn't something that should make you want attack me personally.

You will find that the pro-Israel posters are zealots when it comes to Israel. To them Israel is more their country than the U.S. or other country they may be citizens of. Hence, when Israel is criticized by neutral observers the reaction is violent and personal attacks are a way to soothe their frustration with the facts that they are presented with. They have no other defense. Oh, you will also be accused of being Muslim, which to them is the ultimate insult.

 

[Beelzebub]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

 

[montelatici]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

While I respect your idealism, I disagree. Every nation has a right to define citizenship. But, if automatic acquisition is based on being of a particular religion or favors a particular religion, the country in question should not advertise itself as being democratic nor secular.

 

[RoccoR]

Beelzebub; et al,

We disagree.

Every nation had the absolute right to establish the criteria for citizenship. Even Arab States have rules on citizenship.

It is not in the jurisdiction for outside/external influences to critique domestic law relative to these issues of nationality and citizenship. It is solely in the purview of the Israelis to determine the criteria pertaining to eligibilities --- just as it is for any other country.

What is the purpose of this discussion? What is it suppose to either prove or disprove?

Most Respectfully,
R

Maybe so.
Though on the other hand no nation has the right to demand approval of its self-definition, from another nation.

In the case of Israel they very specifically have not even defined themselves in law as a 'Jewish State' and have refused to define what they think that might mean.

So where does that leave you?

(COMMENT)

First off, the State of Israel was designated a "Jewish State" by General Assembly Resolution; not by self decree. But then, there is no law, treaty or Covenant that precludes such a right of self-determination. In fact, international consensus works the other way.

Nothing precludes the "progressive exercise of the right to self-determination by peoples under colonial, foreign or alien occupation and their emergence into sovereign statehood and independence," in the General Assembly Resolution 49/148. Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination; especially that which is backed specially by a General Assembly Resolution in the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."

The "Jewish State" was a UN Designation given under GA/RES/181(II) Part II - Section B, as well as announced in the Declaration of Independence.

There is no requirement to define the status of the state as in: "have not even defined themselves in law as a 'Jewish State' and have refused to define" --- as you contend. A state is defined by its impression it projects upon the nation of the world that observe it. But not state is required to qualify itself as to its nature. Nor is it bound to act accordingly if it does define itself. Certainly the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" is not "democratic." It is a totalitarian state. Most Arab Kingdoms are undefined as to their nature, beyond that of a Monarchy.

Again, what is the beef?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Beelzebub]

Thanks for your links RoccoR.

I will read through them and get back to you. Not as quickly as I would like.

 

[Beelzebub]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

While I respect your idealism, I disagree. Every nation has a right to define citizenship. But, if automatic acquisition is based on being of a particular religion or favors a particular religion, the country in question should not advertise itself as being democratic nor secular.

I can agree with those amendments. What can be done and what can be generally supported are different.

I would add that no such nation could say it is concerned with nor observant of Human Rights. To claim grown adults as citizens, without their expressed desire to be so is like claiming ownership over them. Citizenship comes with duties, liabilities and costs, and these cannot be imposed without offending an individuals rights.

 

[aris2chat]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

While I respect your idealism, I disagree. Every nation has a right to define citizenship. But, if automatic acquisition is based on being of a particular religion or favors a particular religion, the country in question should not advertise itself as being democratic nor secular.

It is not automatic. You have to prove you are jewish enough; you have to go on ayliah, speak hebrew, preform military service. It is not just a matter of saying one is jewish and being handed an Israeli passport.

 

[montelatici]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

While I respect your idealism, I disagree. Every nation has a right to define citizenship. But, if automatic acquisition is based on being of a particular religion or favors a particular religion, the country in question should not advertise itself as being democratic nor secular.

It is not automatic. You have to prove you are jewish enough; you have to go on ayliah, speak hebrew, preform military service. It is not just a matter of saying one is jewish and being handed an Israeli passport.

Why do you continue to spread propaganda and disinformation when there is an Israeli Government Website that contradicts you completely? Please just stop this lying!

"On the establishment of the State, its founders proclaimed "...the renewal of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel, which would open wide the gates of the homeland to every Jew..." In pursuance of this tenet, the State of Israel has absorbed survivors of the Holocaust, refugees from the countries in which they had resided, as well as many thousands of Jews who came to settle in Israel of their own volition.

The Law of Return (1950) grants every Jew, wherever he may be, the right to come to Israel as an oleh (a Jew immigrating to Israel) and become an Israeli citizen.

For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh's certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen."

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality

 

[Auldhippy]

bluesman, Roudy, et al,

Of what importance is any of this in the reality of today, and any greivance the Arab-Palestinian may have.

Nobody is asking you to change your delusional un American IslamoNazi values. Israel was voted by the international community as a Jewish state. Hence it gives preference to those of Jewish ancestry who are escaping oppression, persecution, and stupid bigoted idiots like you. Period end of story.

See, instead of addressing what I posted, you are attacking me personally. I am not the one who posted the Israeli law on their website. There is no reason to defend your bias; all you have to do is embrace core American values and you will then agree that using religion as a determining factor for citizenship is something that does not match our values. I don't know why pointing that out would piss off any true constitutionalist or American. However, if you are from somewhere else, then I am not asking you to simply adopt our ideals. I am not pissed of at you for supporting the practice of using religion as a determining factor for citizenship. We just disagree about it. It isn't something that should make you want attack me personally.

(COMMENT)

Every nation had the absolute right to establish the criteria for citizenship. Even Arab States have rules on citizenship.

It is not in the jurisdiction for outside/external influences to critique domestic law relative to these issues of nationality and citizenship. It is solely in the purview of the Israelis to determine the criteria pertaining to eligibilities --- just as it is for any other country.

What is the purpose of this discussion? What is it suppose to either prove or disprove?

Most Respectfully,
R

You clearly don't get it. What the LoR does is to legislate for non citizens, the rights it bestows is not for Israelis but for non Israelis from anywhere who happen to be Jews. Israel is legislating for the world and it simply is non sensical. No other nation/state legislates for other than those who elect them.

All due credit to the Jews who renounce those rights as the nonsense it is.