Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual

[Phoenall]

Every nation had the absolute right to establish the criteria for citizenship. Even Arab States have rules on citizenship.

It is not in the jurisdiction for outside/external influences to critique domestic law relative to these issues of nationality and citizenship. It is solely in the purview of the Israelis to determine the criteria pertaining to eligibilities --- just as it is for any other country.

What is the purpose of this discussion? What is it suppose to either prove or disprove?

Most Respectfully,
R

Maybe so.
Though on the other hand no nation has the right to demand approval of its self-definition, from another nation.

In the case of Israel they very specifically have not even defined themselves in law as a 'Jewish State' and have refused to define what they think that might mean.

So where does that leave you?

They did not need to as the LoN and the mandate declared that it would be a Jewish National Home. This was then taken up by the UN who took over the mandate from the LoN and Britain and they declared it a Jewish nation.


It was enshrined in International law when the UN accepted the declaration of independence in 1948.

Declaration of Israel's Independence, 1948 . Truman . WGBH American Experience | PBS

HEREBY PROCLAIM the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL.


Once the UN accepted that declaration then Israel became a JEWISH STATE

 

[Phoenall]

Nobody is asking you to change your delusional un American IslamoNazi values. Israel was voted by the international community as a Jewish state. Hence it gives preference to those of Jewish ancestry who are escaping oppression, persecution, and stupid bigoted idiots like you. Period end of story.

See, instead of addressing what I posted, you are attacking me personally. I am not the one who posted the Israeli law on their website. There is no reason to defend your bias; all you have to do is embrace core American values and you will then agree that using religion as a determining factor for citizenship is something that does not match our values. I don't know why pointing that out would piss off any true constitutionalist or American. However, if you are from somewhere else, then I am not asking you to simply adopt our ideals. I am not pissed of at you for supporting the practice of using religion as a determining factor for citizenship. We just disagree about it. It isn't something that should make you want attack me personally.

You will find that the pro-Israel posters are zealots when it comes to Israel. To them Israel is more their country than the U.S. or other country they may be citizens of. Hence, when Israel is criticized by neutral observers the reaction is violent and personal attacks are a way to soothe their frustration with the facts that they are presented with. They have no other defense. Oh, you will also be accused of being Muslim, which to them is the ultimate insult.

We have yet to see any criticism of Israel by any neutral observers that you have linked to. Everyone has been shown to be RABIDLY ANTI JEWISH and ANTI ISRAEL

 

[Phoenall]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

Do explain then why all nations have the right in law to define who gets to be a citizen, we do not live in a world without borders yet. So the USA can deny entry to anyone they like, and can also deny citizenship to anyone. The UK have withdrawn citizenship from foreign nationals who have travelled abroad to take part in terrorist activity

 

[montelatici]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

Do explain then why all nations have the right in law to define who gets to be a citizen, we do not live in a world without borders yet. So the USA can deny entry to anyone they like, and can also deny citizenship to anyone. The UK have withdrawn citizenship from foreign nationals who have travelled abroad to take part in terrorist activity

The U.S. nor the U.K. (nor any other EU state) discriminate based on religion as Israel, and I am sure, some Muslim states do. It is against the law.

 

[Beelzebub]

Human Rights laws do not permit states to make a citizen stateless, by depriving them of their nationality.

Yes, Britain has withdrawn / cancelled citizenship of nationals who have gone abroad to fight as mercenaries or Jihadists. However those citizens have initially dual nationality, so are not made stateless.

Five of the dual nationals deprived of their citizenship were British Pakistanis, while two were of dual British and Sudanese nationality. The remaining six were Australian, Iraqi, Russian, Egyptian and Lebanese dual nationals.

Does that answer your question Phoenall?

 

[Roudy]

Human Rights laws do not permit states to make a citizen stateless, by depriving them of their nationality.

Yes, Britain has withdrawn / cancelled citizenship of nationals who have gone abroad to fight as mercenaries or Jihadists. However those citizens have initially dual nationality, so are not made stateless.

Five of the dual nationals deprived of their citizenship were British Pakistanis, while two were of dual British and Sudanese nationality. The remaining six were Australian, Iraqi, Russian, Egyptian and Lebanese dual nationals.

Does that answer your question Phoenall?

What are you blabbering now? There was no state of Palestine for anybody to become stateless. Wow. The ignorance is astounding.

 

[Roudy]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

Do explain then why all nations have the right in law to define who gets to be a citizen, we do not live in a world without borders yet. So the USA can deny entry to anyone they like, and can also deny citizenship to anyone. The UK have withdrawn citizenship from foreign nationals who have travelled abroad to take part in terrorist activity

The U.S. nor the U.K. (nor any other EU state) discriminate based on religion as Israel, and I am sure, some Muslim states do. It is against the law.

Baaaaloney. Israel does not discriminate against it's 1.8 million Arab Muslim citizens. In fact they prefer to live in Israel more than any Arab Muslim shithole.

True story.

 

[montelatici]

Do explain then why all nations have the right in law to define who gets to be a citizen, we do not live in a world without borders yet. So the USA can deny entry to anyone they like, and can also deny citizenship to anyone. The UK have withdrawn citizenship from foreign nationals who have travelled abroad to take part in terrorist activity

The U.S. nor the U.K. (nor any other EU state) discriminate based on religion as Israel, and I am sure, some Muslim states do. It is against the law.

Baaaaloney. Israel does not discriminate against it's 1.8 million Arab Muslim citizens. In fact they prefer to live in Israel more than any Arab Muslim shithole.

True story.

The discriminatory nature of Israel's citizenship law is posted on an Israeli Government website. You people are out of your minds.

 

[Sally]

The U.S. nor the U.K. (nor any other EU state) discriminate based on religion as Israel, and I am sure, some Muslim states do. It is against the law.

Baaaaloney. Israel does not discriminate against it's 1.8 million Arab Muslim citizens. In fact they prefer to live in Israel more than any Arab Muslim shithole.

True story.

The discriminatory nature of Israel's citizenship law is posted on an Israeli Government website. You people are out of your minds.

Every country can make their own rules with regard to immigration. Maybe Muslim converts like Haniya woud like to see the U.S. open its board to more Somalis to run wild here. Meanwhile, isn't it a hoot that no matter which Muslim or fellow travelers are posting throughout the years, the immigration issue in Israel is sure to come up, while of course they close their eyes to what is happening to others in Muslim countries. They actually would salivate if Israel lifted its immigration laws just so the Muslims could take over Israel and destroy that tiny country.

 

[Roudy]

The U.S. nor the U.K. (nor any other EU state) discriminate based on religion as Israel, and I am sure, some Muslim states do. It is against the law.

Baaaaloney. Israel does not discriminate against it's 1.8 million Arab Muslim citizens. In fact they prefer to live in Israel more than any Arab Muslim shithole.

True story.

The discriminatory nature of Israel's citizenship law is posted on an Israeli Government website. You people are out of your minds.

So you cannot provide a shred of evidence that there is state sponsored "discrimination" against any of the 1.8 million Arab Muslim citizens of Israel. There goes another of your "facts" down the toilet. FLUUUUUUUSSSHHH. Can we get an "allah akbar" with that?

 

[aris2chat]

While I respect your idealism, I disagree. Every nation has a right to define citizenship. But, if automatic acquisition is based on being of a particular religion or favors a particular religion, the country in question should not advertise itself as being democratic nor secular.

It is not automatic. You have to prove you are jewish enough; you have to go on ayliah, speak hebrew, preform military service. It is not just a matter of saying one is jewish and being handed an Israeli passport.

Why do you continue to spread propaganda and disinformation when there is an Israeli Government Website that contradicts you completely? Please just stop this lying!

"On the establishment of the State, its founders proclaimed "...the renewal of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel, which would open wide the gates of the homeland to every Jew..." In pursuance of this tenet, the State of Israel has absorbed survivors of the Holocaust, refugees from the countries in which they had resided, as well as many thousands of Jews who came to settle in Israel of their own volition.

The Law of Return (1950) grants every Jew, wherever he may be, the right to come to Israel as an oleh (a Jew immigrating to Israel) and become an Israeli citizen.

For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh's certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen."

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality

>>In a move designed to address new immigrants' concerns about serving in the Israeli army, the government has decided to allow newcomers to delay their mandatory service for three years if they are using that time for academic pursuits, Anglo File has learned.

The new program, to be introduced next month, aims to help encourage immigration to Israel while also giving new arrivals a chance to integrate and learn Hebrew before being conscripted.

"We introduced the new 'study-before-army' procedure to remove hurdles that worry many new immigrants, especially returning Israelis," Interior Minister Eli Yishai said. Absorption professionals reacted cautiously optimistic about the new deal.

Yishai's office, together with the Israel Defense Forces, changed the requirement that all men aged 18 to 29 who settle in Israel under the Law of Return must enlist within one year of arriving here. <<June 2010

 

[Andylusion]

Please explain.

Do you not know the history of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.
Dear dear.

Well it is a good long story. You can continue your information gathering here:



Apart from that rather obvious example, the US gives treasure and sacrifices credibility every day by its support of Israel. Though you are not allowed to say it 9/11 and the general Jihad against America is due to its unjust treatment of "lesser people" more than a little, The Palestinians.

Of course this is not just due to ignorance in America. Nor is it just down to oil industry interests. Or to War Industry interests. Not even all down to Zionist supporters (mostly Christian, by the way - nutty Christians, but still Christians).

But overall the US sacrifices wealth, credibility, strategic advantage, natural allies, and economic advantage in the cause of supporting the quite obviously racist and semi-fascist Israeli state.

I don't say that Russia and Europe don't (Germany in particular are a great supporter of them), but the US doesn't even allow criticism of the place, when it does utterly evil acts.

Thankfully, the new generation have noticed and are getting around the closed-shop of obsequious news reporting and avoidance of objective reporting.

Anything unclear Lipush?

Right, so one accidental, unintentional attack on a US vessel, which Israel openly admitted to? Proves what? Can you name for me, one country on this planet that has never accidentally hit the wrong target?

You realize that Canadian and US forces in WW2, both misidentified each other as Japanese, and engaged in an all out assault on each other during Operation Cottage. Obviously Canada and the US should be bitter enemies now....

War sucks. War is crazy. Things happen. Here's a thought.... maybe since we told Israel that we would not help them, perhaps we shouldn't have had ships near by. Or better still, we should have told them we would help them, and then they would have expected US ships in coastal waters.

Apart from that rather obvious example, the US gives treasure and sacrifices credibility every day by its support of Israel.

Opinion, not fact. My opinion is the opposite.

Though you are not allowed to say it 9/11 and the general Jihad against America is due to its unjust treatment of "lesser people" more than a little, The Palestinians.

Oh bull crap. Osama Bin Laden said many times that he was mad about US forces being stationed in Saudi Arabia, even though we were there at the request of the Saudi government. The Saudi government met with Osama, before he was exiled, specifically to explain to him that US forces were there at their request. When he refused to change his statements, that's when they exiled him, and he started Al Qeada.

Go read Ghost Wars by Steve Coll. Very little of the terrorism going on, as to do with Israel, except specifically Hamas, Hezbolah, and the PNA.

Ramzi Yousef alluded to attacking the twin towers in 1991 because of the US helping Israel, but when you read statements leading up to the bombing, it had very little to do with Israel.

Further, when you look at what he did after, almost none of it fits with his claim. He tried to blow up the Catholic Pope. The Vatican has been a big supporter of Palestine, and extremely critical of Israel forever. He tried to blow up Benazir Bhutto. Was Bhutto a big Israel supporter? He tried to blow up Philippine Airlines to Japan. Was the Philippines a huge supporter of Israel?

Come on. The only way someone can try and claim that the only reason these animals are trying to blow people up, is because of Isreael, is if they themselves are too ignorant to know better.

But overall the US sacrifices wealth, credibility, strategic advantage, natural allies, and economic advantage in the cause of supporting the quite obviously racist and semi-fascist Israeli state.

Are you crazy? Do you have any idea just how much we take for granted today, that was all developed in Israel?

Windows 2000, and Window XP, were both developed in Israel.

Flash drives were designed and first created, in Israel.

Do you even know where these emotes came from? Not these emotes specifically, but Instant Messaging, or Internet Relay chat was started by ICQ. Most all the chat programs out there now, and all the emotes we use regularly, are from the innovation of an Israeli company which made ICQ, which was bought by AOL and made into AOL Messenger.

Israel also is home to the Intel R&D labs, where the original 8088 CPU was built. That may mean nothing to you, but if you an X86 CPU, Pentium 4 or earlier, you are using a CPU whose architecture was created in Israel. 186, 286, 386, 486, Pentium (586), and so on were all based on an Israeli design.

Further, the Pentium M, the first Intel chip designed for Laptops and Notebooks, was designed in Israel, as were the Intel Core, Core Solo, Core Duo, and Celeron. In fact the Corporate code name was 'Yonah'. Figure that one out.

And the latest the Ivy Bridge, Sandy Bridge, and Haswell CPUs from Intel today, are all Israeli designed.

Amazon's Kindle, runs on Java software, owned by Sun Microsystems, which developed non-internet based software in..... Israel. Amazon contacted Sun, and signed a contract given to Israel to make the software that runs every Kindle.

[ame=http://youtu.be/eqOYlnyGBs4]The new HP Indigo 7600 Digital Press - YouTube[/ame]

The HP Indigo now has 75% of the world wide market share of photo quality printing, and of course is #1 in the US. HP purchased Indigo.... which was found and created in.... Israel.

There's not enough space on this forum for me to list all of the economic benefits, and world wide wealth created in Israel. Even countries that oppose Israel, benefit from Israel.

Israel's water desalination plants produce so much water, that now Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon, are drinking water that is only drinkable because of Israel.

And you think we're losing out by supporting Israel? Heck the entire freakin planet benefits from US supporting Israel. All the nations of the Earth, benefit from us supporting Israel. We should be thanked, if not paid for our support of Israel, given how much the rest of the world benefits from it.

Crazy people on this forum today. Just flat out crazy.

 

[Sally]

See, instead of addressing what I posted, you are attacking me personally. I am not the one who posted the Israeli law on their website. There is no reason to defend your bias; all you have to do is embrace core American values and you will then agree that using religion as a determining factor for citizenship is something that does not match our values. I don't know why pointing that out would piss off any true constitutionalist or American. However, if you are from somewhere else, then I am not asking you to simply adopt our ideals. I am not pissed of at you for supporting the practice of using religion as a determining factor for citizenship. We just disagree about it. It isn't something that should make you want attack me personally.

You will find that the pro-Israel posters are zealots when it comes to Israel. To them Israel is more their country than the U.S. or other country they may be citizens of. Hence, when Israel is criticized by neutral observers the reaction is violent and personal attacks are a way to soothe their frustration with the facts that they are presented with. They have no other defense. Oh, you will also be accused of being Muslim, which to them is the ultimate insult.

We have yet to see any criticism of Israel by any neutral observers that you have linked to. Everyone has been shown to be RABIDLY ANTI JEWISH and ANTI ISRAEL

Come on, Phoenall, you know that the Muslims around the world, born into Islam or converted into Islam, even if they have never seen a Jew in their life, are taught to hate Israel and the Jews. Even the two main sects of Islam which are busy murdering each other, when it comes to Israel, they are all on the same page.

 

[montelatici]

Pyschopaths meet and it is love at first sight.

 

[Indeependent]

Pyschopaths meet and it is love at first sight.

You met yourself?

 

[montelatici]

Pyschopaths meet and it is love at first sight.

You met yourself?

No, Phony met Sally.

 

[Sally]

Pyschopaths meet and it is love at first sight.

You met yourself?

No, Phony met Sally.

No, we have met the doppleganger of all those like you who have posted the same nonsense over the years. I guess when you are so busy posting day and night you don't think that the viewers think that something is up. A normal person doesn't post day and night like you have. You haven't even been around that long, and they can read just how many posts you have made in such a short time like your life depended on it.

 

[Sally]

Pyschopaths meet and it is love at first sight.

You met yourself?

Just look at how many posts she has made in just a short time. For all we know there are several people posting under this same screen name since some guy popped up and said his wife comes from Spain so you know that it wasn't Haniya posting since I don't think she has a wife.

 

[Phoenall]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

Do explain then why all nations have the right in law to define who gets to be a citizen, we do not live in a world without borders yet. So the USA can deny entry to anyone they like, and can also deny citizenship to anyone. The UK have withdrawn citizenship from foreign nationals who have travelled abroad to take part in terrorist activity

The U.S. nor the U.K. (nor any other EU state) discriminate based on religion as Israel, and I am sure, some Muslim states do. It is against the law.

What Law, link to the relevant International Law that applies. Then we can apply it to all the Islamic nations and have them dissolved

 

[P F Tinmore]

Though thinking about it, I don't believe a nation does have the absolute right to define what qualifies as its citizens.

There is much international law to consider, not least Human Rights (I suppose Israel doesn't much like those of course.)

For example, Russia may have more success extraditing one of its own citizens from abroad, than a complete non-Russian.
How would you feel if you woke up tomorrow to find Russia had new criteria which defined YOU as a Russian citizen?

So no. Nations do not get to decide in isolation their definition of citizen.

Indeed, and this is an aspect that has not been mentioned yet.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

5 Ian Brownlie, “The Relations of Nationality in Public International Law,” The British Year Book of International Law, 1963, p. 220.

So, citizens of Palestine who normally lived in the area that became Israel would automatically become Israelis. Refugees would fall into this category. Immigration would have nothing to do with it.