Judge Bans Use Of “Illegal” and “Aliens”

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

NOBODY needs to demonize those poor wankers that sneak in here, they do a damned good job of that themselves. But, we digress. The issue was: ILLEGAL ALIENS aren't real, or we made them up or some such bullpucky. All we have to do is click our ruby slippers together , and say we aren't in Kansas any more, toto. We can banish words, words like "illegal aliens". After all, if that word didn't exist, the whole issue would just go away, like clicking those little slippers together. Damn I wish I could outlaw paying bills or getting old or getting sick. But, hells bells, life doesn't EVER work that way, ever... but illegal aliens are just as real and they aren't just gonna go away cause' ya don't like ....a word. NOPE.

 

[Grismonda]

NOBODY needs to demonize those poor wankers that sneak in here, they do a damned good job of that themselves. But, we digress. The issue was: ILLEGAL ALIENS aren't real, or we made them up or some such bullpucky. All we have to do is click our ruby slippers together , and say we aren't in Kansas any more, toto. We can banish words, words like "illegal aliens". After all, if that word didn't exist, the whole issue would just go away, like clicking those little slippers together. Damn I wish I could outlaw paying bills or getting old or getting sick. But, hells bells, life doesn't EVER work that way, ever... but illegal aliens are just as real and they aren't just gonna go away cause' ya don't like ....a word. NOPE.

The immigration picture varies from state to state. Last year, a large immigration bust occurred at a factory in Mass. The owners of the factory were home within hours of their arrest and have resumed their normal lives. When they are finally prosecuted, if convicted, they will face fines, not jail time, fines they can well afford. Life for the more than 100 workers who were also arrested did not go back to normal. Many of them had infants and children who were suddenly left without mothers. Yes, these people are responsible for their children but some thought must be given to what happens when a parent isn't allowed to go pick the kid up from daycare. Hundreds of children were left in the lurch because our government made no plans for what to do with them when the mothers were arrested. Several babies, American citizens, ended up in hospitals because they were being breast-fed and suffered dehydration when forcibly weaned. Dozens of these women were flown to Texas and Mexico within hours of the arrest before being allowed to speak with state social workers about their children or to attorneys. Many of them were actually here legally. At least 3 of them were actually U.S. citizens! As I said dozens were sent to Mexico - problem is, few of them were from Mexico. Mass. doesn't have many Mexicans, the state is just too far away. That raid was totally botched - and the real criminals, the men who hired those *illegals* are getting away almost scott-free. That's just wrong.

There needs to be an assessment done of all our immigration laws. What does our country need? What kind of workers are needed in our various industries? Skilled workers? Where are these people? As I said, the *illegals* in many states are not from Mexico. They hail from India, China, the Dominican, Poland, and Ireland - and they often have some post high school education. Are the legal immigration rules too strict for our needs? Where can the quotas be relaxed? Where should the be tightened? And building a fence along the Mexican border is not going to keep out those who are coming into my state illegally by way of Canada. As for those who hire illegals, doing so is in itself illegal. Our government does not do a good enough job to enforce the laws we have in place now. It should do so.

This is my stand on immigration folks. BUT, I will not tolerate hate directed at any one group of people!

 

[007]

Hispanic Journalists see it differently. The National Council of La Raza--a civil rights group for Latinos sees it differently. The Hispanic Lawyers in Arizona and the Supreme Court Justice in Arizona sees it differently.

The Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League
see it differently.

I see it differently than you. I think it's a small thing to do to change the terminology and I have no problem with calling these folks undocumented immigrants, or illegal immigrants.

La Raza? The National Council of La Raza? Are you serious? Do you hear yourself? La Raza, "the race," the same ones that belong to MEChA, and believe in Aztlan, you mean that La Raza? The same ones that believe in reconquista, to repatriate eight or nine states back to Mexico and abolish the southern border. The very same ones that openly spew hate and contempt for America. You have just shown me what kind of HATE you must have for America by supporting groups like this FILTH La Raza, a.k.a., MEChA. You have identified yourself as an ENEMY to the soveriegnty of America. Here are your hero's...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1XAQc8hS8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQxy-q2rDpI[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTwO457C8bQ[/ame]

I don't call them 'illegals' and I don't call them 'aliens' either.

I understand. You hate America and are part of the problem.

I won't call their children 'anchor babies' or refer to undcoumented immigrants or illegal immigrants 'wetbacks', 'cockroaches', 'invaders', 'criminals' or 'diseased', or 'hordes' or 'swarms'.

I call 'em like I see 'em, and if you enter this country illegally, and weren't born here, YOU are an ILLEGAL ALIEN.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Nice to see that you used the term 'illegal' as an adjective. You didn't use it as a noun. Good for you.

You did not call these folks 'illegals'.

Illegals is slang for illegal alien. Get over it.


I've asked you this three times yet you haven't given an answer.

In a previous post you wrote. "They (illegal aliens) have violated immigration law. They ought to have a hearing and then be deported."

If you believe this then why are you ok with a judge changing the term 'illegal alien' to 'undocumented immigrant?', as this will make it even harder to find and deport illegal aliens? Don't hand me some nonsense that it won't; you can't be so blind that you don't see this is what will happen. It's the whole point of changing what they are called.

 

[Zoom-boing]

The immigration picture varies from state to state. Last year, a large immigration bust occurred at a factory in Mass. The owners of the factory were home within hours of their arrest and have resumed their normal lives. When they are finally prosecuted, if convicted, they will face fines, not jail time, fines they can well afford. Life for the more than 100 workers who were also arrested did not go back to normal. Many of them had infants and children who were suddenly left without mothers. Yes, these people are responsible for their children but some thought must be given to what happens when a parent isn't allowed to go pick the kid up from daycare. Hundreds of children were left in the lurch because our government made no plans for what to do with them when the mothers were arrested. Several babies, American citizens, ended up in hospitals because they were being breast-fed and suffered dehydration when forcibly weaned. Dozens of these women were flown to Texas and Mexico within hours of the arrest before being allowed to speak with state social workers about their children or to attorneys. Many of them were actually here legally. At least 3 of them were actually U.S. citizens! As I said dozens were sent to Mexico - problem is, few of them were from Mexico. Mass. doesn't have many Mexicans, the state is just too far away. That raid was totally botched - and the real criminals, the men who hired those *illegals* are getting away almost scott-free. That's just wrong.

Many of them were legal but there were some that were illegal. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch. Those that were legal should be outraged at the illegals that caused this mess to begin with. The people who hired the illegal aliens should face jail time, not some namby-pamby fine.

Not many illegal aliens in Mass.? How'd you come to that conclusion? I live in PA and believe me they have worked their way all over the place. You're delusional if you think otherwise.

There needs to be an assessment done of all our immigration laws. What does our country need? What kind of workers are needed in our various industries? Skilled workers? Where are these people? As I said, the *illegals* in many states are not from Mexico. They hail from India, China, the Dominican, Poland, and Ireland - and they often have some post high school education.

It doesn't matter where illegal aliens come from. If they are here illegally they should be booted out of the country. Period. If they have kids that were born here but are under 18 they either take the kids with them unless they have legal family here to take care of them.

And building a fence along the Mexican border is not going to keep out those who are coming into my state illegally by way of Canada.

yeah, the influx of Canadians is the problem here.

As for those who hire illegals, doing so is in itself illegal. Our government does not do a good enough job to enforce the laws we have in place now. It should do so.

Agreed. People who hire illegal aliens should be doing serious jail time. Maybe they'd think twice about hiring illegals if they knew there were real consequences for their crime.

 

[Ravi]

It turns out that the information in the OP wasn't true. There is no ban on the words in question in Arizona courts.

Not that anyone will pay any attention to the actual facts.

 

[Againsheila]

The immigration picture varies from state to state. Last year, a large immigration bust occurred at a factory in Mass. The owners of the factory were home within hours of their arrest and have resumed their normal lives. When they are finally prosecuted, if convicted, they will face fines, not jail time, fines they can well afford. Life for the more than 100 workers who were also arrested did not go back to normal. Many of them had infants and children who were suddenly left without mothers. Yes, these people are responsible for their children but some thought must be given to what happens when a parent isn't allowed to go pick the kid up from daycare. Hundreds of children were left in the lurch because our government made no plans for what to do with them when the mothers were arrested. Several babies, American citizens, ended up in hospitals because they were being breast-fed and suffered dehydration when forcibly weaned. Dozens of these women were flown to Texas and Mexico within hours of the arrest before being allowed to speak with state social workers about their children or to attorneys. Many of them were actually here legally. At least 3 of them were actually U.S. citizens! As I said dozens were sent to Mexico - problem is, few of them were from Mexico. Mass. doesn't have many Mexicans, the state is just too far away. That raid was totally botched - and the real criminals, the men who hired those *illegals* are getting away almost scott-free. That's just wrong.

There needs to be an assessment done of all our immigration laws. What does our country need? What kind of workers are needed in our various industries? Skilled workers? Where are these people? As I said, the *illegals* in many states are not from Mexico. They hail from India, China, the Dominican, Poland, and Ireland - and they often have some post high school education. Are the legal immigration rules too strict for our needs? Where can the quotas be relaxed? Where should the be tightened? And building a fence along the Mexican border is not going to keep out those who are coming into my state illegally by way of Canada. As for those who hire illegals, doing so is in itself illegal. Our government does not do a good enough job to enforce the laws we have in place now. It should do so.

This is my stand on immigration folks. BUT, I will not tolerate hate directed at any one group of people!

1) I disagree that those children are Americans. I have a hard time believing that an amendment that specifically denies citizenship to children born here to legal diplomats was ever intended to grant citizenship to children born to illegal aliens.

2) The people running the factory should be in jail. Heck, they should lose their business and never be able to run another one in this country.

3) The parents and ONLY the parents are responsible for putting their kids in this situation. IMO, anyone that brings their child along while they are committing a crime should have to do at least double the maximum sentence. Illegal aliens who have children here are putting their kids at risk. They KNOW they could get caught and shipped home. IMO that makes them TERRIBLE parents. They should lose custody and those kids should be given up for adoption into loving American homes.

 

[catzmeow]

You've given me op ed pieces. Sure, it sounds logical. But high school drop outs losing jobs to the immigrants is the fault of the drop outs on one hand (for dropping out), and the companies that hire people for below minimum wage on the other hand. Demonizing hispanics does nothing to solve the problem of lack of education and unscrupulous employers.

Each of those op ed pieces quotes a legitimate study from a major university. Or, are only the op ed pieces that YOU post legitimate as evidence?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Do you know the difference between a noun and an adjective? Do you understand that 40% of the undocumented immigrants are people who entered the US legally?

The OP is about a decision made by an Arizona Supreme Court Justice. I also included an appeal made by Hispanic Journalist requesting that media adjust the terminology--this is a separate but related appeal to the OP.

Well, we're all just very impressed that they came here legally, and THEN broke the law by staying past the time they were supposed to leave. THAT makes it all better.

"I used to be law-abiding, but then I got over it. That's SOOOO yesterday."

 

[Cecilie1200]

AND...more "felon" Americans reside in Bullhead City, Arizona than any city in the USA. "Felon" Americans? How is that for an adjective...or better yet, Felon Arizonians. Or use it as a noun...Felons, when just referring to Arizonians...see how that works? I guess being an Arizonian yourself, you have stake in their cause...

I have no idea what you're babbling about. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you don't, either.

 

[Cecilie1200]

John Tanton is pivotal to the discussion on reactionary anti-immigration rhetoric.

He is the founder of the movement.

What I'm hearing is, "John Tanton is pivotal to what I want to talk about, so I'm going to force him to be the topic and set him up as the straw man all my opponents have to be responsible for so that I can have the conversation I WANT, instead of the one created by free interchange of thoughts and ideas."

In other words, you don't get to argue against John Tanton until 1) someone else brings him up, or 2) he shows up to debate you in person.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Adjective: modifer

Noun: Name, of a person, object, place, quality, thing or action. It's can function as subject or object of a verb.

"illegal" by the proper definition is an adjective.

"The proper definition" apparently meaning "the definition I want to accept, because I'm pissed off that the dictionary has the nerve to list a definition I don't like."

Thanks for sharing, Noah Webster, but I'm still going with the dictionary over your opinion, and the dictionary says that "illegal" is also a noun.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nice try. It's just another version of a broad sweeping generalization.

Actually, it's the truth. The policy of the Mexican government is to turn a blind eye to Mexicans crossing our border illegally, thereby tacitly giving governmental approval to the practice.

You would know that if you weren't pontificating from a safe distance.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Illegals is slang for illegal alien. Get over it.


I've asked you this three times yet you haven't given an answer.

In a previous post you wrote. "They (illegal aliens) have violated immigration law. They ought to have a hearing and then be deported."

If you believe this then why are you ok with a judge changing the term 'illegal alien' to 'undocumented immigrant?', as this will make it even harder to find and deport illegal aliens? Don't hand me some nonsense that it won't; you can't be so blind that you don't see this is what will happen. It's the whole point of changing what they are called.

Actually, the ones who show up before the Arizona Supreme Court probably aren't going anywhere for the time being, because they're usually there because they've been charged with some OTHER crime. The justice in question doesn't want the poor dears made to look like they're bad people because they're illegal, because it might make it more likely that they're viewed as guilty of the OTHER crime, as well.

It's kind of like having a guy on trial for rape, and not being able to mention that he has a criminal history of burglary, as well.

 

[007]

Actually, it's the truth. The policy of the Mexican government is to turn a blind eye to Mexicans crossing our border illegally, thereby tacitly giving governmental approval to the practice.

You would know that if you weren't pontificating from a safe distance.

Oh it's worse than just turning a blind eye. Mexico has been and continues to support and encourage illegal immigration.

Wake up America: Mexican President Encourages Illegal Immigration in to the U.S by "blasting" the U.S. for Deporting Illegal Aliens

Mexico Encourages Illegal Immigration

FAIR: Mexico's Defense of Illegal Immigrants

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh it's worse than just turning a blind eye. Mexico has been and continues to support and encourage illegal immigration.

Wake up America: Mexican President Encourages Illegal Immigration in to the U.S by "blasting" the U.S. for Deporting Illegal Aliens

Mexico Encourages Illegal Immigration

FAIR: Mexico's Defense of Illegal Immigrants

True. I believe they've also tried to sue Arizona ranchers who've shot illegals they found on their property.

 

[Againsheila]

Actually, it's the truth. The policy of the Mexican government is to turn a blind eye to Mexicans crossing our border illegally, thereby tacitly giving governmental approval to the practice.

You would know that if you weren't pontificating from a safe distance.

What blind eye? They printed up comic books telling their people how to do it. I'd say they are outright encouraging their poor to come here. Beats the heck out of dealing with them themselves. And now that our economy is so bad, the people of Mexico are complaining about all the ones coming home taking their jobs and lowering THEIR wages.

Funny how they claimed they didn't lower OUR wages or take OUR jobs, but when they go home they are taking jobs away from Mexican and lowering Mexican wages.

 

[Againsheila]

True. I believe they've also tried to sue Arizona ranchers who've shot illegals they found on their property.

They succeeded in one instance and the judge actually gave the ranch to the illegal aliens.

I cannot beleive how corrupt our system is. When I lived in Mexico, 30 years ago, I knew their government was corrupt, heck it was overt. 5 minutes across the border, the cops pulled over our bus for a bribe.

Now I'm thinking it's just as bad here, perhaps worse because we Americans aren't expecting it.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Just found this from a local Arizona News outlet: [ Chief Justice accused of banning words
by Melissa Gonzalo - Nov. 11, 2008 03:23 PM
12 News
A national public interest group accused the Arizona Supreme Court Chief Justice of banning certain words in the courts. Judicial Watch claims Ruth McGregor gave in to the Hispanic Bar Association of Arizona's request to avoid using certain immigration-related terms in any documents or proceedings. But Justice McGregor denies she banned any words from Arizona courts and is concerned Judicial Watch is making these claims. Her spokeswoman, Cari Gerchick, said the Arizona Supreme Court is not in the business of banning words, and such accusations are damaging to the court system in general. Judicial Watch recently posted on its website that Justice McGregor banned the use of words, such as illegal and aliens from the courts. "We did not ban any language within the court system," said Gerchick. The Hispanic bar association of Arizona wrote a letter to Justice McGregor asking her to strongly encourage Arizona judges and court employees to avoid using words, such as illegals and illegal aliens, recommending they use undocumented immigrants or foreign nationals instead. McGregor responded in a letter that she had taken several steps to notify the judges of the group's concerns. "The court distributed that letter throughout the rest of the court system as we typically do in policy issues," said Gerchick. Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton said in a telephone interview that "it's deeply disconcerting that such a letter would be given any consideration at all." Fitton said the fact that Justice McGregor distributed the letter to judges shows she endorsed the ban.
But the Supreme Court said that's not the case at all. "We don't know how that mistake got started, or why it's been perpetuated, but under no circumstances have any words been banned from the Arizona court system," said Gerchick.
Gerchick said it's up to each judge to follow a code of judicial ethics and treat everyone in their courtroom with respect. She said words can be banned from courts only in particular cases.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

So after reading that...It sort of makes me wonder, Why didn't her honor, Justice McGregor either tear up that letter from the Hispanic Bar Assn., or come out and outright BAN the word instead of this Nixonesqe plausible-denial tactic? This doesn't settle anything. It does seem to imply she tacitly endorses removal of those words from the court. But, hey she can't LEGALLY ban the words because they are factually descriptive. So it goes....To paraphrase Shakespeare : Crap by any other name stinks just as much. Call them what ever you want.