Judge Bans Use Of “Illegal” and “Aliens”

[catzmeow]

If you can prove that is true I'll agree with you. But it isn't true, at least it is nothing more than a theory. Poor people have a lot of problems, but being out-competed for low wage, dead end jobs isn't one of them.

Lax immigration hurts the poor - The Boston Globe

SUPPOSE SOMEONE offered to import 350 foreign workers to New Bedford to work for less than the minimum wage. Since the unemployment rate is over 8 percent, we would expect public outrage. The city needs jobs, not more unskilled laborers. So it is no surprise that citizens seeking jobs started lining up at the Michael Bianco plant after Immigration and Customs Enforcement uncovered 350 illegal immigrants.

Similarly, after the Crider chicken-processing plant in Stillmore, Ga., was raided in January, it boosted wages and hired US citizens, according to the Wall Street Journal.
...
A 1997 study by the National Academy of Sciences found that wages of high school dropouts plummeted 30 percent between 1980 and 1985, with about half of the losses due to competition from immigrants. Citizens without a high school degree are another group of victims with no voice. Mass immigration depresses their wages because it floods the market with cheap labor.

http://www.thetowntalk.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060518/OPINION/605170334/1014

In fact, scholars such as Andrew Sum of Northeastern University in Boston have shown that illegal aliens are increasing unemployment among our poorest citizens. They are also depressing wages, and what we're ending up with among the illegals themselves is the growth of an exploited, impoverished class that widens the gap between rich and poor.
are matched by the taxes they pay.

Illegal Immigration Victims - The Working Poor - The Oregon Catalyst

Who suffers most from the influx of illegal immigrants? Did you think it was the taxpayers? So did I, but we were wrong. It is the working poor. At least according to Harvard economist George Borjas who is recognized as one of the nation’s leading experts on the economic impact of illegal immigration.

...In response Maricopa County (Phoenix and surrounding areas) retained Borjas, the Robert W. Scrivner Professor of Economics and Social Policy at
Harvard University to undertake a study of the economic impact on the Arizona labor forces. Borjas did not include in his study the adverse impact of illegal immigrants on the welfare system, the public education system or the healthcare system in Arizona. He looked solely at the impact on employment.

Borjas found that the illegal immigrants had artificially enlarged the labor pool. When the supply is in excess of demand, the price for labor falls. Add to that that the illegals have little recourse for substandard wages (or working conditions) because any protest runs the risk of exposure and deportation. Borjas noted that in such instances the impact is greatest on those who make the least – entry level, unskilled workers. Borjas found that wages for entry level workers were, on average, 4.7% less than they would have been absent the illegal immigrants. In total that cost Arizona workers approximately $1.4 Billion in 2005. And here is an extra kicker, Borjas found that even this estimate is probably low because federal officials (census takers) routinely undercount the number of illegals and the number of illegals in entry level, unskilled jobs has a greater concentration than estimated by those same federal officials.

Borjas did not take into account the impact that illegals have on the migration of unskilled workers to skilled workers through on the job training. In other words because the illegals are already on site, they are given the opportunity to learn the skills necessary to advance in lieu of legal residents who are denied the entry level jobs because of the artificially suppressed wage levels. For instance, in the construction industry where the illegals may begin as “go-fers” they advance to framing carpenters and then to finish carpenters because they are present for the training. Each improvement in skill level brings a higher wage opportunity and meanwhile those here legally sit idly waiting for a turn.

You would think that organized labor and advocates for the poor would be first in line to protest this impact on America’s working poor. But these groups seem more interested in political power than personal opportunity and they see the illegal immigrant problem as an opportunity for votes rather than improvement in the conditions of the poor. Both sides of the aisle have equivocated on this issue in hopes of attracting a new voting block and meanwhile, as usual, the least able suffer the brunt of the politician’s dalliance.

Use google. Type in: "illegal immigration hurts the poor." You'll have more proof than you can swing a dead cat at. It's been studied extensively. As someone who has spent my career working with the urban poor, I am vehemently opposed to illegal immigration. Our first responsibility is to our OWN poor people, not the world's.

 

[007]

Hispanics Target of Incitement and Violence:
Extremists Declare 'Open Season' on Immigrants: Hispanics Target of Incitement and Violence

So what... they're a bunch of school boys compared to this gang.

 

[catzmeow]

I do.

Skinheads don't. John Tanton started most anti-immigration groups.
YouTube - Behind The Veil: America's Anti-Immigration Network

Wait for it...next, the comparison to hitler.

And, calling people what they are is a hate crime.

 

[sky dancer]

Study who John Tanton is and get back to me.

 

[catzmeow]

So what... they're a bunch of school boys compared to this gang.

NO JOKE. This is a link to an article from Michelle Malkin (we all know where she stands on immigration policy), but it is sourced and contains accurate information on a horrific school-yard slaying of young black kids in Newark, NJ by members of MS-13. I'm friends with one of the detectives who worked on this case, and I'm amazed that Newark hasn't had race riots over it.

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/08/13/newark-exection-murders-update-the-ms-13-connection/

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

It boggles my mind, these mind games. Anyone that opposed illegal aliens is some lowbrow Neanderthal trailer trash scazwag loser. White Trash racist NAZI that deserve to be treated like crap . It is amazing to me, this insular elitist ANGLO intellectual SH*T double standard some of you buy into. We are ALL Human beings and we all have the same needs. Illegal aliens made a choice to violate international laws. Now, that might make the dark EXPLOITIVE Hearts of all you rich jackasses glow, but hey, guess what? This isn't a political partisan thing. It isn't some intellectual abstraction, either. All they have to do is IMMIGRATE LEGALY. But, hey, lets just ignore or re-write the rules because it doesn't fit. But, just as long as you rich ANGLOS don't have to live with the new class of neo-slaves, what do YOU care? YOU intellectualize and make excuses, isn't that right, Ms. popular, Sky? What rules did the poor underclass break. sweety and why are we less than some immigration cheats? Do you really think the American underclass deserves to be forgotten ,written off or treated less? All the homeless people, all those that lose their jobs disserved that ? Illegal aliens are immune to fairness AND DESERVE better? I can tell some of you live in cloud-coo coo land. Nice rationalizations, though. The magic eight ball sez: try again. We can tell were YOU are coming from, you elitist snob.

 

[catzmeow]

Study who John Tanton is and get back to me.

I don't care who John Tanton is. You're subscribing to a logical fallacy known as guilt by association. John Tanton's identity id IRRELEVANT to the conversation we're having here. No one participating in this discussion is a follower of Tanton, and none of the articles that people have posted (including me) sources an organization like FAIR whose partiality is well-documented. People are ignoring you because you are trying to subvert actual discussion through the use of fallacious reasoning. Want people to pay attention to you? Try espousing an actual argument that makes rational sense.

 

[007]

I do.

Skinheads don't. John Tanton started most anti-immigration groups.
YouTube - Behind The Veil: America's Anti-Immigration Network

I don't believe it. Because if you did, you'd have admitted long ago that the term ILLEGAL ALIEN is simply the best term to describe a person who has broken our laws and entered this country illegally.

An immigrant "migrates"... Legal or illegal is irrelevant to what the term discribes.

Wrong. An immigrant obeys the laws of the country to which they enter. Criminals sneak into a country, and that makes them an illegal alien.

 

[catzmeow]

It boggles my mind, these mind games. Anyone that opposed illegal aliens is some lowbrow Neanderthal trailer trash scazwag loser. White Trash racist NAZI that deserve to be treated like crap . It is amazing to me, this insular elitist ANGLO intellectual SH*T double standard some of you buy into. We are ALL Human beings and we all have the same needs. Illegal aliens made a choice to violate international laws. Now, that might make the dark EXPLOITIVE Hearts of all you rich jackasses glow, but hey, guess what? This isn't a political partisan thing. It isn't some intellectual abstraction, either. All they have to do is IMMIGRATE LEGALY. But, hey, lets just ignore or re-write the rules because it doesn't fit. But, just as long as you rich ANGLOS don't have to live with the new class of neo-slaves, what do YOU care? YOU intellectualize and make excuses, isn't that right, Ms. popular, Sky? What rules did the poor underclass break. sweety and why are we less than some immigration cheats? Do you really think the American underclass deserves to be forgotten ,written off or treated less? All the homeless people, all those that lose their jobs disserved that ? Illegal aliens are immune to fairness AND DESERVE better? I can tell some of you live in cloud-coo coo land. Nice rationalizations, though. The magic eight ball sez: try again. We can tell were YOU are coming from, you elitist snob.

I suspect that your post will be similarly ignored since you represent what is incomprehensible to Sky...a person of color rebuking her for racism of the most arrogant sort. She's towing the PC party line with no real understanding of the actual impact of illegal aliens on Chicanos.

The simple fact of the matter is that most poor Latinos are also the most contemptuous of illegal aliens because they have to deal with them the most often and the most directly. Sky only has to deal with illegals when they mow her lawn. It's all pie in the sky theory to her, not real life that she has any actual experience with.

 

[sky dancer]

John Tanton started and funds most of the anti-immigration groups that mainstream media cites for comments on immigration.

He is a white supremacist.

 

[catzmeow]

Ravi,

I have to pack a suitcase and fly to Omaha today. I'm off for the rest of the day. But, I hope you will actually review the names of the Ph.D.s who have studied this issue, and that we can discuss this topic further. It's something that I find very interesting and definitely a discussion worth having.

ciao, y'all.

 

[sky dancer]

I suspect that your post will be similarly ignored since you represent what is incomprehensible to Sky...a person of color rebuking her for racism of the most arrogant sort. She's towing the PC party line with no real understanding of the actual impact of illegal aliens on Chicanos.

The simple fact of the matter is that most poor Latinos are also the most contemptuous of illegal aliens because they have to deal with them the most often and the most directly. Sky only has to deal with illegals when they mow her lawn. It's all pie in the sky theory to her, not real life that she has any actual experience with.

I don't live in San Francisco. I mow my own lawn. Address the points in my post please.

 

[007]

John Tanton started and funds most of the anti-immigration groups that mainstream media cites for comments on immigration.

He is a white supremacist.

So what does that have to do with anything? An illegal alien is still an illegal alien, and you've done nothing but spread psychobabble.

 

[catzmeow]

I don't live in San Francisco. I mow my own lawn. Address the points in my post please.

I don't care who John Tanton is. You're subscribing to a logical fallacy known as guilt by association. John Tanton's identity id IRRELEVANT to the conversation we're having here. No one participating in this discussion is a follower of Tanton, and none of the articles that people have posted (including me) sources an organization like FAIR whose partiality is well-documented. People are ignoring you because you are trying to subvert actual discussion through the use of fallacious reasoning. Want people to pay attention to you? Try espousing an actual argument that makes rational sense.

Try reading my responses, it would help you, A LOT. This is what you did above:

The following is obviously a case of poor "reasoning": "You think that 1+1=2. But, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Joseph Stalin, and Ted Bundy all believed that 1+1=2. So, you shouldn't believe it."

The fallacy draws its power from the fact that people do not like to be associated with people they dislike. Hence, if it is shown that a person shares a belief with people he dislikes he might be influenced into rejecting that belief. In such cases the person will be rejecting the claim based on how he thinks or feels about the people who hold it and because he does not want to be associated with such people.

Let's see if you can go an entire day without a logical fallacy. That would be an awesome accomplishment for you.

 

[sky dancer]

So what does that have to do with anything? An illegal alien is still an illegal alien, and you've done nothing but spread psychobabble.

John Tanton is pivotal to the discussion on reactionary anti-immigration rhetoric.

He is the founder of the movement.

 

[sky dancer]

Try reading my responses, it would help you, A LOT. This is what you did above:



Let's see if you can go an entire day without a logical fallacy. That would be an awesome accomplishment for you.

Try posting without an insult for one day. That would be an awesome accomplishment for you. I know you can do it.

 

[Grismonda]

Try posting without an insult for one day. That would be an awesome accomplishment for you. I know you can do it.

Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
Let's see if you can go an entire day without a logical fallacy.

Pray tell, what is a logical fallacy? The use of the term, illegal alien?

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Sky dancer has every right to tell me what a idiot racist moron I am. It's her deluded right and I defend it. But, She can't defend illegal aliens. Well she can try. She has done a bang-up job, Kudos. Why she does this, damned if I know. Plenty of poor Americans that deserve better. I am one of them but, hey, she is an intellectual and that seems to trump real experience, right, lassie? Tell me it's GOOD FOR ECONOMY? Why is the economy tanking now? Who can say what is good for the ECONOMY or AMERICA? Not you pseudo-intellectuals. Not anymore.You don't know what it is all about.

 

[Ravi]

Lax immigration hurts the poor - The Boston Globe


http://www.thetowntalk.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060518/OPINION/605170334/1014


Illegal Immigration Victims - The Working Poor - The Oregon Catalyst


Use google. Type in: "illegal immigration hurts the poor." You'll have more proof than you can swing a dead cat at. It's been studied extensively. As someone who has spent my career working with the urban poor, I am vehemently opposed to illegal immigration. Our first responsibility is to our OWN poor people, not the world's.

You've given me op ed pieces. Sure, it sounds logical. But high school drop outs losing jobs to the immigrants is the fault of the drop outs on one hand (for dropping out), and the companies that hire people for below minimum wage on the other hand. Demonizing hispanics does nothing to solve the problem of lack of education and unscrupulous employers.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Do you know the difference between a noun and an adjective?

Do you?

Illegal: adjective

1. forbidden by law or statute.
2. contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.:

Alien noun

1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen ).
2. a foreigner.
3. a person who has been estranged or excluded.

Alien adjective

5. residing under a government or in a country other than that of one's birth without having or obtaining the status of citizenship there.

Alien can be a noun or an adjective. When used with the adjective illegal, it is a noun. Hence, illegal alien. Get over the whole grammar thing.

Do you understand that 40% of the undocumented immigrants are people who entered the US legally?

That makes 60% of illegal aliens entering the US . . .um, what's the word? Oh yeah, illegally.

The OP is about a decision made by an Arizona Supreme Court Justice.

The judge is WRONG.

In a previous post you wrote ". They have violated immigration law. They ought to have a hearing and then be deported."

If you believe this then why are you ok with a judge changing the term 'illegal alien' to 'undocumented immigrant?', as this will make it even harder to find and deport illegal aliens?