Just another day in America. Guns keeping people safe... 8 dead... the dead can't be killed, therefore they're safe.

[JoeB131]

You can press your conspiracy theory that DGU's being rare but the facts tell us otherwise.

What facts? The fact is that no one can tell you how many there are, from the very low figure from the FBI of 39,000, to the crazy numbers from Kleck, Lott and other NRA tools putting them up in the millions.

If you don't have a dead body and a ruling by the police that it was justified, it's kind of all guesswork, isn't it?

Here's why I doubt even the lowest numbers. Because the cases where we have dead bodies, the FBI says that only about 200 cases of self-defense homicides happen with civilians and guns. (And most of those are wife-beaters getting shot, not criminals breaking into homes.)

You have an Ammosexual like 2AGuy or Bluesman or any of the other nuts. And they love, love, love their guns. And then one day, they have a chance to act like their heroes Zimmerman and Rittenhouse... and they don't shoot anyone. At least not 99.99% of the time.

You can use "we" in connection with your claim about creating a criminal class but in the grown-up world, "we" understand that leftist policies are designed to protect criminals as the oppressed victims. Leftist policies are enabling criminals and making the career path for those criminals much easier.

Actually, the entire constitution is based on protecting the rights of the accused, which is why we have...

Fourth Amendment against Unreasonable searches and seizures.
Fifth Amendment banning self incrimination
Sixth Amendment right to a due process
Seventh Amendment right to a jury
Eighth Amendment protection from cruel and unusual punishment.

In the grown up world, you realize that if you make it harder for a crazy person to get a gun than treatment, you are going to have problems.
if you garuntee everyone the right to a gun but not a job making a living wage, you are going to have crime.

Assisted suicide and suicide aren't the same thing . Idiot.

Well, no obviously, you can't arrest someone for suicide.
You can arrest them for assisted suicide.
You can institutionalize them for attempted suicide.
Oh, yeah, final point. Suicide makes any insurance policy null and void.

So, no, suicide isn't a "right" nor "legal". But if you want to indulge, knock yourself out.

 

[2aguy]

What facts? The fact is that no one can tell you how many there are, from the very low figure from the FBI of 39,000, to the crazy numbers from Kleck, Lott and other NRA tools putting them up in the millions.

If you don't have a dead body and a ruling by the police that it was justified, it's kind of all guesswork, isn't it?

Here's why I doubt even the lowest numbers. Because the cases where we have dead bodies, the FBI says that only about 200 cases of self-defense homicides happen with civilians and guns. (And most of those are wife-beaters getting shot, not criminals breaking into homes.)

You have an Ammosexual like 2AGuy or Bluesman or any of the other nuts. And they love, love, love their guns. And then one day, they have a chance to act like their heroes Zimmerman and Rittenhouse... and they don't shoot anyone. At least not 99.99% of the time.



Actually, the entire constitution is based on protecting the rights of the accused, which is why we have...

Fourth Amendment against Unreasonable searches and seizures.
Fifth Amendment banning self incrimination
Sixth Amendment right to a due process
Seventh Amendment right to a jury
Eighth Amendment protection from cruel and unusual punishment.

In the grown up world, you realize that if you make it harder for a crazy person to get a gun than treatment, you are going to have problems.
if you garuntee everyone the right to a gun but not a job making a living wage, you are going to have crime.


Well, no obviously, you can't arrest someone for suicide.
You can arrest them for assisted suicide.
You can institutionalize them for attempted suicide.
Oh, yeah, final point. Suicide makes any insurance policy null and void.

So, no, suicide isn't a "right" nor "legal". But if you want to indulge, knock yourself out.

Moron...decades of actual research say you don't know what you are talking about.......you clod...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

 

[2aguy]

What facts? The fact is that no one can tell you how many there are, from the very low figure from the FBI of 39,000, to the crazy numbers from Kleck, Lott and other NRA tools putting them up in the millions.

If you don't have a dead body and a ruling by the police that it was justified, it's kind of all guesswork, isn't it?

Here's why I doubt even the lowest numbers. Because the cases where we have dead bodies, the FBI says that only about 200 cases of self-defense homicides happen with civilians and guns. (And most of those are wife-beaters getting shot, not criminals breaking into homes.)

You have an Ammosexual like 2AGuy or Bluesman or any of the other nuts. And they love, love, love their guns. And then one day, they have a chance to act like their heroes Zimmerman and Rittenhouse... and they don't shoot anyone. At least not 99.99% of the time.



Actually, the entire constitution is based on protecting the rights of the accused, which is why we have...

Fourth Amendment against Unreasonable searches and seizures.
Fifth Amendment banning self incrimination
Sixth Amendment right to a due process
Seventh Amendment right to a jury
Eighth Amendment protection from cruel and unusual punishment.

In the grown up world, you realize that if you make it harder for a crazy person to get a gun than treatment, you are going to have problems.
if you garuntee everyone the right to a gun but not a job making a living wage, you are going to have crime.


Well, no obviously, you can't arrest someone for suicide.
You can arrest them for assisted suicide.
You can institutionalize them for attempted suicide.
Oh, yeah, final point. Suicide makes any insurance policy null and void.

So, no, suicide isn't a "right" nor "legal". But if you want to indulge, knock yourself out.

Hey...you dumb ass...not one, but three gun owners stop this criminal, likely released over and over by the democrat party you love, and not one of them fired a shot....you idiot...they held the criminal for the police......

A Georgia man who attempted to rob a gas station at gunpoint ended up in police custody after three armed citizens put a stop to the crime, without ever having to pull the trigger themselves.

Armed robber picks target full of armed citizens

bearingarms.com

And her....
Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========

 

[2aguy]

What facts? The fact is that no one can tell you how many there are, from the very low figure from the FBI of 39,000, to the crazy numbers from Kleck, Lott and other NRA tools putting them up in the millions.

If you don't have a dead body and a ruling by the police that it was justified, it's kind of all guesswork, isn't it?

Here's why I doubt even the lowest numbers. Because the cases where we have dead bodies, the FBI says that only about 200 cases of self-defense homicides happen with civilians and guns. (And most of those are wife-beaters getting shot, not criminals breaking into homes.)

You have an Ammosexual like 2AGuy or Bluesman or any of the other nuts. And they love, love, love their guns. And then one day, they have a chance to act like their heroes Zimmerman and Rittenhouse... and they don't shoot anyone. At least not 99.99% of the time.



Actually, the entire constitution is based on protecting the rights of the accused, which is why we have...

Fourth Amendment against Unreasonable searches and seizures.
Fifth Amendment banning self incrimination
Sixth Amendment right to a due process
Seventh Amendment right to a jury
Eighth Amendment protection from cruel and unusual punishment.

In the grown up world, you realize that if you make it harder for a crazy person to get a gun than treatment, you are going to have problems.
if you garuntee everyone the right to a gun but not a job making a living wage, you are going to have crime.


Well, no obviously, you can't arrest someone for suicide.
You can arrest them for assisted suicide.
You can institutionalize them for attempted suicide.
Oh, yeah, final point. Suicide makes any insurance policy null and void.

So, no, suicide isn't a "right" nor "legal". But if you want to indulge, knock yourself out.

Oh....look....another gun owner stops a car jacker and doesn't fire a shot.....the police arrive on the scene.....and they don't shoot him...considering he's a black guy too.......joe has no clue what the F*** he is talking about...

Video of the good guy with the gun holding the criminal until the police arrive is in the story...

On the night of April 13, while Jones was on patrol duty in the parking lot, a stranger in a white T-shirt walked up to his car and tried to open the passenger’s side door. Jones realized that the man was trying to carjack him.

Worse, Jones knew police had spent the night scouring the area to find a criminal suspect, and he surmised that this man might be him.

Concerned for his own safety, Jones got out of his vehicle and drew his firearm, prompting the would-be carjacker to raise his hands and lay down in surrender.

Here’s the video:
---------
Within seconds, as the video shows, several city police cars raced into the parking lot with sirens blazing. Jones says his suspicions were confirmed—the man who had tried to jump into his car was in fact the subject of the police search.

At first, the video shows, a couple of the police officers drew their guns on Jones. Fortunately, Jones says, one of the officers recognized him from previous work with the towing company and it quickly became clear that he wasn’t the threat.

Jones holstered his gun, and the officers turned their attention to the detained suspect.

Why Doesn’t Media Report Such Incidents?​

The best part about this story is that we don’t just have to take John Jones’ word for it. The security camera at a neighboring business captured the entire incident, confirming Jones’ account and providing riveting visual evidence of just how quickly a routine night can escalate into a dangerous predicament.

Records show that police charged Jones’ assailant, identified as Thomas T. Turner, 23, with pointing or brandishing a firearm, misdemeanor assault, burglary, drug possession, and driving while his license was revoked

Jones says this wasn’t the first time he has used a firearm to defend himself or others.

Several years ago, while parked in a public lot, Jones says, he saw a man approach a car and demand the driver’s purse and phone at gunpoint. Jones jumped into action, drawing his own legally possessed “open carry” handgun and pointing it at the would-be robber, who promptly fled—without the driver’s belongings.

How is it, then, that neither of Jones’ dramatic defensive uses of a firearm made it into the local news? Well, it’s possible they never even made it into the police blotter in the first place.

Jones says that in both cases, the responding law enforcement officers were rather unconcerned with obtaining a statement. Once the officers were reassured that Jones wasn’t the suspect or a threat to their safety, they basically told him to go back about his business.

https://www.heritag

http://

http://e.org/firearms/commentary/watch-dramatic-use-gun-self-defense-didnt-make-news

 

[Hollie]

What facts? The fact is that no one can tell you how many there are, from the very low figure from the FBI of 39,000, to the crazy numbers from Kleck, Lott and other NRA tools putting them up in the millions.

If you don't have a dead body and a ruling by the police that it was justified, it's kind of all guesswork, isn't it?

Here's why I doubt even the lowest numbers. Because the cases where we have dead bodies, the FBI says that only about 200 cases of self-defense homicides happen with civilians and guns. (And most of those are wife-beaters getting shot, not criminals breaking into homes.)

You have an Ammosexual like 2AGuy or Bluesman or any of the other nuts. And they love, love, love their guns. And then one day, they have a chance to act like their heroes Zimmerman and Rittenhouse... and they don't shoot anyone. At least not 99.99% of the time.



Actually, the entire constitution is based on protecting the rights of the accused, which is why we have...

Fourth Amendment against Unreasonable searches and seizures.
Fifth Amendment banning self incrimination
Sixth Amendment right to a due process
Seventh Amendment right to a jury
Eighth Amendment protection from cruel and unusual punishment.

In the grown up world, you realize that if you make it harder for a crazy person to get a gun than treatment, you are going to have problems.
if you garuntee everyone the right to a gun but not a job making a living wage, you are going to have crime.


Well, no obviously, you can't arrest someone for suicide.
You can arrest them for assisted suicide.
You can institutionalize them for attempted suicide.
Oh, yeah, final point. Suicide makes any insurance policy null and void.

So, no, suicide isn't a "right" nor "legal". But if you want to indulge, knock yourself out.

What facts? The data you were given. Your conspiracy theories are your own delusions to retreat to.

Actually, you know nothing of the Constitution. Leftists protect their career criminal heroes by not jailing them for crimes they commit.

 

[JoeB131]

Moron...decades of actual research say you don't know what you are talking about.......you clod...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

All bullshit studies and ignored. The fact that the numbers vary so wildly should be indication enough that there's really no way to quantify it.

We can, however, quantify the damage guns do. 45,000 dead, 70,000 wounded, 400,000 gun crimes.

Hey...you dumb ass...not one, but three gun owners stop this criminal, likely released over and over by the democrat party you love, and not one of them fired a shot....you idiot...they held the criminal for the police......

Nothing in your article said the guy had been released "over and over". Anecdotes aren't statistics.

What facts? The data you were given. Your conspiracy theories are your own delusions to retreat to.

No, Sweetie, NRA spooge and anecedotes aren't facts.

 

[Hollie]

All bullshit studies and ignored. The fact that the numbers vary so wildly should be indication enough that there's really no way to quantify it.

We can, however, quantify the damage guns do. 45,000 dead, 70,000 wounded, 400,000 gun crimes.



Nothing in your article said the guy had been released "over and over". Anecdotes aren't statistics.


No, Sweetie, NRA spooge and anecedotes aren't facts.

Why yes, pumpkin. Your goofy conspiracy theories don't supplant facts.

The best estimates are that guns are used to deter or thwart crime between 500,000 and 2.8 million times per year, but the more likely answer is probably somewhere in the middle. A 2021 survey2 estimated that guns are used 1.67 million times per year in self defense in the United States.

How Often Are Guns Used in Self Defense? | Stats

A 2021 survey2 estimated that guns are used 1.67 million times per year in self defense in the United States.

americangunfacts.com

I understand you're infuriated that anyone should have the ability to defend themselves from your criminal heroes, but, learn to cope.

 

[Blues Man]

What facts? The fact is that no one can tell you how many there are, from the very low figure from the FBI of 39,000, to the crazy numbers from Kleck, Lott and other NRA tools putting them up in the millions.

If you don't have a dead body and a ruling by the police that it was justified, it's kind of all guesswork, isn't it?

Here's why I doubt even the lowest numbers. Because the cases where we have dead bodies, the FBI says that only about 200 cases of self-defense homicides happen with civilians and guns. (And most of those are wife-beaters getting shot, not criminals breaking into homes.)

You have an Ammosexual like 2AGuy or Bluesman or any of the other nuts. And they love, love, love their guns. And then one day, they have a chance to act like their heroes Zimmerman and Rittenhouse... and they don't shoot anyone. At least not 99.99% of the time.



Actually, the entire constitution is based on protecting the rights of the accused, which is why we have...

Fourth Amendment against Unreasonable searches and seizures.
Fifth Amendment banning self incrimination
Sixth Amendment right to a due process
Seventh Amendment right to a jury
Eighth Amendment protection from cruel and unusual punishment.

In the grown up world, you realize that if you make it harder for a crazy person to get a gun than treatment, you are going to have problems.
if you garuntee everyone the right to a gun but not a job making a living wage, you are going to have crime.


Well, no obviously, you can't arrest someone for suicide.
You can arrest them for assisted suicide.
You can institutionalize them for attempted suicide.
Oh, yeah, final point. Suicide makes any insurance policy null and void.

So, no, suicide isn't a "right" nor "legal". But if you want to indulge, knock yourself out.

A 72 hour hold is hardly institutionalizing.

And of course it's a right And no suicide does not void all insurance policies in fact almost every life insurance policy will pay for suicide if the policy has been in force for more than 2 years.

Does Life Insurance Cover Suicide?

Life insurance companies need to protect themselves from the possibility that someone could buy a policy with the intention of committing suicide shortly after so that their families receive a life insurance payment. Does Life Insurance Cover Suicide? Suicide is not generally covered in the first

www.forbes.com

Suicide is not generally covered in the first two years of a life insurance policy but it is covered after that. This two-year period is known as a suicide clause.

If a suicide happens more than two years after getting a life insurance policy, the life insurance policy will pay out death benefit to the policy’s beneficiaries.


Add this to the list of things you have no clue about.

 

[JoeB131]

Why yes, pumpkin. Your goofy conspiracy theories don't supplant facts.

The best estimates are that guns are used to deter or thwart crime between 500,000 and 2.8 million times per year,

If I went into my bosses' office and told him a project was going to net between $500K and $2.8MM in profit, he'd throw me out on my ass for sloppy work.

Especially if someone else came in with an accurate figure of $70,000.

How Often Are Guns Used for Self-Defense?

Fact-checking the 'good guys with guns' maxim.

www.thetrace.org

The NCVS identifies far fewer instances of defensive gun use. According to the most recent firearms violence report, published in April, 2 percent of victims of nonfatal violent crime — that includes rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault — and 1 percent of property crime victims use guns in self-defense. According to the survey, firearms were used defensively in 166,900 nonfatal violent crimes between 2014 and 2018, which works out to an average of 33,380 per year. Over the same period, defensive gun use was reported in 183,300 property crimes, or an average of 36,660 per year.

Taken together, that’s 70,040 instances of defensive gun use per year.

 

[Blues Man]

If I went into my bosses' office and told him a project was going to net between $500K and $2.8MM in profit, he'd throw me out on my ass for sloppy work.

Especially if someone else came in with an accurate figure of $70,000.

How Often Are Guns Used for Self-Defense?

Fact-checking the 'good guys with guns' maxim.

www.thetrace.org

The NCVS identifies far fewer instances of defensive gun use. According to the most recent firearms violence report, published in April, 2 percent of victims of nonfatal violent crime — that includes rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault — and 1 percent of property crime victims use guns in self-defense. According to the survey, firearms were used defensively in 166,900 nonfatal violent crimes between 2014 and 2018, which works out to an average of 33,380 per year. Over the same period, defensive gun use was reported in 183,300 property crimes, or an average of 36,660 per year.

Taken together, that’s 70,040 instances of defensive gun use per year.

Still more than how many people are murdered by people using guns

 

[JoeB131]

Still more than how many people are murdered by people using guns

Um, no, not really. You only get to the 70K figure if you include property crimes.

It's JUST FUCKING PROPERTY!

If you want to count all incidents where merely threatening someone with a gun is a DGU, then merely threatening someone with a gun is a crime, and your number is 484,000 gun crimes vs. 70,000 DGU's, then you STILL have a gun problem.

 

[Blues Man]

Um, no, not really. You only get to the 70K figure if you include property crimes.

It's JUST FUCKING PROPERTY!

If you want to count all incidents where merely threatening someone with a gun is a DGU, then merely threatening someone with a gun is a crime, and your number is 484,000 gun crimes vs. 70,000 DGU's, then you STILL have a gun problem.

So what?

If we use your "logic" then property crimes committed with guns that result in no deaths don't count either

If someone breaks into my house despite the fact that I have an alarm system and 2 dogs then I am going to be prudent and assume that piece of shit would have no qualms about doing me or my wife bodily harm.

 

[miketx]

More lies and fearmongering from the right.

Conservatives continue to refuse to address the issue of gun crime and violence.

Guns don't commit crimes, stop lying howler monkey.

 

[miketx]

Um, no, not really. You only get to the 70K figure if you include property crimes.

It's JUST FUCKING PROPERTY!

If you want to count all incidents where merely threatening someone with a gun is a DGU, then merely threatening someone with a gun is a crime, and your number is 484,000 gun crimes vs. 70,000 DGU's, then you STILL have a gun problem.

Howler monkey is spewing lies again. Come get them.

 

[Hollie]

If I went into my bosses' office and told him a project was going to net between $500K and $2.8MM in profit, he'd throw me out on my ass for sloppy work.

Especially if someone else came in with an accurate figure of $70,000.

How Often Are Guns Used for Self-Defense?

Fact-checking the 'good guys with guns' maxim.

www.thetrace.org

The NCVS identifies far fewer instances of defensive gun use. According to the most recent firearms violence report, published in April, 2 percent of victims of nonfatal violent crime — that includes rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault — and 1 percent of property crime victims use guns in self-defense. According to the survey, firearms were used defensively in 166,900 nonfatal violent crimes between 2014 and 2018, which works out to an average of 33,380 per year. Over the same period, defensive gun use was reported in 183,300 property crimes, or an average of 36,660 per year.

Taken together, that’s 70,040 instances of defensive gun use per year.

Good for you. You're learning that defensive use of Firearms can save lives. You must find it galling that your criminal heroes aren't going to find an absolute entitlement to assault and kill. The fact is, there is a growing acknowledgment that leftist policies of endowing criminals with allowances to prey on the public has consequences.


How Often Are Guns Used in Self Defense? | Stats.

How Guns Were Used – Were Shots Fired?​

No shots were fired in 81.9% of those defensive use cases. 50.9% of the time, displaying the firearm was sufficient to scare off the attacker; 31% of the time, simply telling someone they were armed prevented the attack from taking place. Only 18.1% of the time was firing the gun required to defend their life.





See? More often than not, your criminal heroes will be prevented from committing crimes when their intended victim uses his/her right of self defense.

 

[JoeB131]

So what?

If we use your "logic" then property crimes committed with guns that result in no deaths don't count either

If someone breaks into my house despite the fact that I have an alarm system and 2 dogs then I am going to be prudent and assume that piece of shit would have no qualms about doing me or my wife bodily harm.

Yes, we know, you Ammosexuals are terrified of these imaginary criminals....

But a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of your family than the bad guy.

Good for you. You're learning that defensive use of Firearms can save lives. You must find it galling that your criminal heroes aren't going to find an absolute entitlement to assault and kill. The fact is, there is a growing acknowledgment that leftist policies of endowing criminals with allowances to prey on the public has consequences.

Uh, no, they don't... I'm sorry your reading comprehension is so poor. Guns do far more damage than good. The rest of the world has figured this out.

 

[2aguy]

All bullshit studies and ignored. The fact that the numbers vary so wildly should be indication enough that there's really no way to quantify it.

We can, however, quantify the damage guns do. 45,000 dead, 70,000 wounded, 400,000 gun crimes.



Nothing in your article said the guy had been released "over and over". Anecdotes aren't statistics.


No, Sweetie, NRA spooge and anecedotes aren't facts.

No.....you ignore them because they show you are full of shit.

The benefits of people being able to save their lives by using legal guns outweighs the criminals who use guns after democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians release them...

600 million guns in private hands......over 22.01 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2022



American use those legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....





Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct

that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million).


But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns



A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)




2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

 

[Blues Man]

Yes, we know, you Ammosexuals are terrified of these imaginary criminals....

But a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of your family than the bad guy.



Uh, no, they don't... I'm sorry your reading comprehension is so poor. Guns do far more damage than good. The rest of the world has figured this out.

No matter how many times you repeat that bullshit stat it will never be true.

And I don't live in fear like you. And it is people that do the damage not an inanimate object. And feel free to go live out there in the rest of the world if you don't like it here.

 

[Hollie]

Yes, we know, you Ammosexuals are terrified of these imaginary criminals....

But a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of your family than the bad guy.



Uh, no, they don't... I'm sorry your reading comprehension is so poor. Guns do far more damage than good. The rest of the world has figured this out.

I expected you would deny the facts and retreat to your usual conspiracy theories.

Data Visualization | Defensive Gun Uses in the U.S. | The Heritage Foundation

According to almost every major study on the issue, Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year. From @HeritageDataViz

datavisualizations.heritage.org

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on defensive gun use has found that Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year.


Note the above was taken before the Biden leftist hacks had the CDC scrub that data from their website.

Just another example of the dishonesty that afflicts leftism.

 

[2aguy]

If I went into my bosses' office and told him a project was going to net between $500K and $2.8MM in profit, he'd throw me out on my ass for sloppy work.

Especially if someone else came in with an accurate figure of $70,000.

How Often Are Guns Used for Self-Defense?

Fact-checking the 'good guys with guns' maxim.

www.thetrace.org

The NCVS identifies far fewer instances of defensive gun use. According to the most recent firearms violence report, published in April, 2 percent of victims of nonfatal violent crime — that includes rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault — and 1 percent of property crime victims use guns in self-defense. According to the survey, firearms were used defensively in 166,900 nonfatal violent crimes between 2014 and 2018, which works out to an average of 33,380 per year. Over the same period, defensive gun use was reported in 183,300 property crimes, or an average of 36,660 per year.

Taken together, that’s 70,040 instances of defensive gun use per year.

The 70,000 number from the NCVS is the only study that puts defensive gun use at that low of a number.....and you know why....

The NCVS is a survey that talks to victims of crime.....

They never ask one question about using guns for self defense.........and yet the anti-gun fanatics claim this is the most accurate assessment of gun use....

That is how stupid anti-gun fanatics are....

Here...from the Daily Koz...tell me this is an NRA source joe....

On the NCVS...and how bad it is for tracking self defense with a gun...since the word "Gun," is never used in the study........so tell me how freaking accurate that can be....

The disadvantages of this study design are:


1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;


2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;


6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

Defensive Gun Use (Part III) - The National Crime Victimization Study

This diary is third in a series published by the Firearm Law and Policy group on the topic of defensive gun use. Part I reports on defensive gun use as described in the Center for ...

www.dailykos.com

Notice how bad that study has to be in order for the anti-gun fanatics like joe to claim it is the most accurate study on gun self defense....