Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[xsited1]

I'm still waiting for the explanation of how making teachers pay a little bit for their benefits is "destroying education"

And don't forget that teacher unions are necessary to address the problems of education.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them.

Absolutely!!!!

Why can't they act like Real Americans (as Michele Bachmann calls them)....those folks who settle for whatever Corporate America deems sufficient-wages....when the Corporates are already cutting costs (nearly) to-the-bone!!!!!

Lennar CEO's Pay Rose 31 Percent In 2010

 

[Wicked Jester]

So they contributed to their own health insurance and retirement for one year?

Oh the horrors.

I've been contributing to o my own retirement since I started working. And I pay for ALL of my own health insurance. The union hack teachers get no sympathy from me.

If they want sympathy they can look in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

Apparently you do not want to hear about the truth. Color me surprised. Bash away.

What truth? You gave no proof .

All the Governor wants is for the fucking union hacks to pay 12% of their health insurance and 5.6% into their retirement funds.

Those are not unreasonable figures. In fact it's still way better than the private sector.

True that........It's either bite the bullet and pay their own way, or face mass lay offs.

It's time for these government employees to start paying their own way. Everybody in the private sector does. There is nothing special about these employees whatsoever.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

[
Seems you already know that you've made a couple logical fallacies here. Over generalization and inductive reasoning without substantiation.

You inserted your personal experience, I'm inserting mine. I work with a pretty large number of kids that want to go into the high schools and teach Mathematics, and I work with a fair number of folks currently teaching Mathematics. I have teachers littered all throughout my family, friends, church, and social circles.

It's a job where the really bad days, can be really really bad. And recently there've been a lot more bad days than good for most of the folks I know.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I don't think someone should keep their job forever, just because they had decent reviews for 3 years or less.

This is not how tenure works. It is a popular misconception of how tenure works.

No, it's not a misconception in primary and secondary positions. That is when tenure is given. After that, it's very difficult to get rid of teachers. That's a fact, as of today.

Very difficult is not the same as "keep their job forever."

Tenure only guarantees you due process before you hit the streets. And tenure can be voided in a few circumstances that aren't that far fetched. I've known quite a few folks that though tenure was the "golden ticket" only to end up unemployed.

I will grant, to get fired while tenured requires:
1. Circumstances far outside your control
2. Really really screwing up.
3. Poor perforrmance over an extended period.

What you'd find is that many jobs in the private sector that require specialized skill sets have pretty close to that same level of security. It just isn't formalized in writing. For folks that work at a business of any reasonable size, ask yourself this: What would it take for your IT guy to get fired?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What truth? You gave no proof .

All the Governor wants is for the fucking union hacks to pay 12% of their health insurance and 5.6% into their retirement funds.

Those are not unreasonable figures. In fact it's still way better than the private sector.

You should really check out the law he's pushing through. It's far more than that. The law takes off the table the ability to negotiate almost every aspect of the job for public sector unions and actively works to disband them.

Most folks in the private sector understand that if they want to keep their jobs they'll need to compromise and take a cut. Most of the folks you're bad mouthing are reasonable people.

When I started my job, I was given the option of buying into the public sector retirement plan or going with a more traditional employer/employee contribution plan. The public sector plan was pretty much insane in what it offered. Not being an idiot, I realized immediately that the plan was unsustainable, and as such it'd probably go broke long before I retired. I went with the more traditional route and haven't regretted it since.

Point out to people that the current status quo is unsustainable, and they'll typically get reasonable. What they are angry about, and have a right to be angry about, is the outright attempt at making sure that they're unable to effectively bargain in the future. Not to mention that in the particular case of Wisconsin, there's some political payback in play.

 

[bodecea]

Apparently you do not want to hear about the truth. Color me surprised. Bash away.

What truth? You gave no proof .

All the Governor wants is for the fucking union hacks to pay 12% of their health insurance and 5.6% into their retirement funds.

Those are not unreasonable figures. In fact it's still way better than the private sector.

True that........It's either bite the bullet and pay their own way, or face mass lay offs.

It's time for these government employees to start paying their own way. Everybody in the private sector does. There is nothing special about these employees whatsoever.

You are saying that government employees don't pay their own way? They don't pay taxes? Seriously?

 

[Wicked Jester]

What truth? You gave no proof .

All the Governor wants is for the fucking union hacks to pay 12% of their health insurance and 5.6% into their retirement funds.

Those are not unreasonable figures. In fact it's still way better than the private sector.

True that........It's either bite the bullet and pay their own way, or face mass lay offs.

It's time for these government employees to start paying their own way. Everybody in the private sector does. There is nothing special about these employees whatsoever.

You are saying that government employees don't pay their own way? They don't pay taxes? Seriously?

It's either their taxes are raised, or they compromise and start paying more for their goods.

Either way, they are going to have to start making sacrifices just like everybody else. They get far better perks than most private sector employees. that has got to end, or states across this country are going to go bankrupt. That's just the way it is. They can damn sure afford to pay more for their benefits and such.

 

[Wicked Jester]

What truth? You gave no proof .

All the Governor wants is for the fucking union hacks to pay 12% of their health insurance and 5.6% into their retirement funds.

Those are not unreasonable figures. In fact it's still way better than the private sector.

You should really check out the law he's pushing through. It's far more than that. The law takes off the table the ability to negotiate almost every aspect of the job for public sector unions and actively works to disband them.

Most folks in the private sector understand that if they want to keep their jobs they'll need to compromise and take a cut. Most of the folks you're bad mouthing are reasonable people.

When I started my job, I was given the option of buying into the public sector retirement plan or going with a more traditional employer/employee contribution plan. The public sector plan was pretty much insane in what it offered. Not being an idiot, I realized immediately that the plan was unsustainable, and as such it'd probably go broke long before I retired. I went with the more traditional route and haven't regretted it since.

Point out to people that the current status quo is unsustainable, and they'll typically get reasonable. What they are angry about, and have a right to be angry about, is the outright attempt at making sure that they're unable to effectively bargain in the future. Not to mention that in the particular case of Wisconsin, there's some political payback in play.

Reasonable people don't walk off the job and leave the students hanging. Reasonable people don't walk off the job and cause those students families to have to completely rearrange their schedules, too include taking time off from work at a loss of pay, because their kids are not in school. Reasonable politicians don't flee the state in a tizzy, leaving those who voted them into power without a functioning government.

The people you speak of are not reasonable whatsoever. And you trying to make that claim is dowright laughable.

 

[shintao]

As I stated early on, other Union members will also contribute to the cause and bring Wisconsin to its knees. I am predicting a strong Union response across the board, either a National strike, or a state wide strike. Union members will not cross a Union picket line, so if they Union plumber in a state building, sorry, you are out of luck.

A union mechanic at Kraft Foods, Grabski fears that his livelihood will soon be in peril if the new governor prevails.

"If the state workers go, we are all next," said Grabski, who was tired, tearful and in need of a shave. "This is a defining moment, a defining issue for all of us. They are at war with the middle class."

Madison protests grow, and Senate Democrats dash | StarTribune.com

 

[TominNH]

Why should teachers be exempt from contributing to their own retirement?

Why should they be exempt from paying for a portion of their health insurance?

Most people do both and don't whine about it.

skull pilot:

1) Yhey do!
2) They do this also!
3) That isnt what they're "whining " about! It is the attempt to strip away all collective bargaining rights---- in other words---- it's union busting!

Tenure simply means that if the administration is going to dismiss a teacher, they must document good cause

 

[mdn2000]

Screw the teachers, screw the teachers unions, screw the government employees who's job is to work in education.

The only thing that needs fixing is that out of control growth of everything in government.

Most companies become more efficeint as they grow, not the government, it grows and grows and grows, and when the economy rises, it grows more, when the economy shrinks, the government still grows. It never stops.

The only thing wrong with education is the damned Unions, the Government's involvement, and the bureaucrat.

What kind of person argues that the government needs to do everything, literally everything, name one thing the Liberal does not want the government to do.

Hell, the government begins counseling of children as to their right to abort babies in schools.

Who wants the government to literally control every aspect of life. Who are these people, they should move to Cuba or move to Venuzula, anywhere there is still Marxism.

Teachers, we need less, administrators, we need less. Tax, we need less.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Why should teachers be exempt from contributing to their own retirement?

Why should they be exempt from paying for a portion of their health insurance?

Most people do both and don't whine about it.

skull pilot:

1) Yhey do!
2) They do this also!
3) That isnt what they're "whining " about! It is the attempt to strip away all collective bargaining rights---- in other words---- it's union busting!

Tenure simply means that if the administration is going to dismiss a teacher, they must document good cause

They are not trying to bust the union...The union will still have full collective bargaining power regarding salaries......It's about doing away with the unsustainable. The state can no longer afford to have it's taxpayers supplement their benefits. The more that the taxpayers shell out for supplementing, the less money goes into the classrooms and infrastructure.

 

[mdn2000]

Public education just sucks period, if it does not make everyone happy, its failed, its that simple. I hated school, to me it was the most boring part of my life, wasted years, I learned to read, I spell like shit, my math skills never reached anything better than a D. When I was finished, I had to go out and get a real education.

Its the 21st century and our entire government is broken, they have failed us, the only thing left is to starve us and leave us homeless. The educational system is just a symptom of what was wrong in the past is wrong today.

Eight hours a day at school for thirteen years and people need another four years of education. That is a life dedicated to what and how the government teaches. It sucked.

Kids should be done with High school at around 16, less if they go to college. It should also take half as many hours a day, which saves us half the money. A kid that has no desire for an education beyond picking fruit, working at McDonalds, or working in a steel mill should have that option.

Oops, our broken government lost all the jobs to China, Europe, all of Asia, even Canada.

Some people only wish to be simple people, they need simple jobs, its that simple industry, like steel, chemicals, energy, that we lost that the simple people need.

Schools have failed but at the same time they need to be modernized, it shoud take a few years less with technology to teach a kid the basics, ten years of school is plenty.

Of course we should of allowed the banks and wall street to fail, we should of allowed people to lose their homes, we are just delaying the collapse of our system by addressing the symptoms and not the problem. We need to take the power away from the government. If we allowed the banks and homes to fail, prices would be dirt cheap, a guy only interested in flipping hamburgers should not have to work thirty years to pay for a home, he should be able to do it in five years.

The price of everything is so ridiculous, the simple jobs for the simple people are just about gone.

We have 9% unemployment, on average, that includes government workers, funny, I bet you that government workers are suffering about a 1% unemployment rate, meaning the people that do the hard work in the private sector are actually closer to 18%, maybe less, I do not know, I went to public schools.

It is what you make of it. Sorry that you did not come away with much. I'm sure your teachers tried tho.

Life is what you make of it, life as a kid is what your parents and the schools make of it.

My teachers tried, yet they failed. They failed to teach, and being how the government controls education there was no other choice were I lived then one government school.

It was tough, boring, bullshit. Maybe its me, but so what, school can be much better, one size fits all is bullshit.

Time to have an education revolution, teach basics and have industry for the kids who only care to know the basics.

 

[Skull Pilot]

As I stated early on, other Union members will also contribute to the cause and bring Wisconsin to its knees. I am predicting a strong Union response across the board, either a National strike, or a state wide strike. Union members will not cross a Union picket line, so if they Union plumber in a state building, sorry, you are out of luck.

A union mechanic at Kraft Foods, Grabski fears that his livelihood will soon be in peril if the new governor prevails.

"If the state workers go, we are all next," said Grabski, who was tired, tearful and in need of a shave. "This is a defining moment, a defining issue for all of us. They are at war with the middle class."

Madison protests grow, and Senate Democrats dash | StarTribune.com

Perfect let them walk so we can hire people who want to work.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why should teachers be exempt from contributing to their own retirement?

Why should they be exempt from paying for a portion of their health insurance?

Most people do both and don't whine about it.

skull pilot:

1) Yhey do!
2) They do this also!
3) That isnt what they're "whining " about! It is the attempt to strip away all collective bargaining rights---- in other words---- it's union busting!

Tenure simply means that if the administration is going to dismiss a teacher, they must document good cause

The only things off the table for collective bargaining are the minuscule contributions to health insurance and retirement. Everything else is still on the table.

 

[Jackson]

I still consider myself a teacher although I am disabled. I was a union rep. I was also a Consultant hiring teachers and mentoring them and recommending the for firing or a second year contract for the Union. So I saw both sides.

I am against the Unions.

Too much politics there. The do keep poor teachers in the job when there is tenure. There is favoritism. There are feuds with great teachers. Teachers need a Professional Organization the enhances the education of teachers with strategies.

What is happening in Wisconsin is hardly professional. Their job is in the classroom. Their paramount concern.

At the same time, taxpayers have to understand that teachers have an obligtion that other public employees don't have. In my state, teachers are obligated to keep their certification current by returning for college work at their own expense every few years which is an expense that others do not have. This burden alone should not make them the first target of legislatures. I only ask that fairness be observed when looking at all professions and what is entailed with each.

 

[bodecea]

I still consider myself a teacher although I am disabled. I was a union rep. I was also a Consultant hiring teachers and mentoring them and recommending the for firing or a second year contract for the Union. So I saw both sides.

I am against the Unions.

Too much politics there. The do keep poor teachers in the job when there is tenure. There is favoritism. There are feuds with great teachers. Teachers need a Professional Organization the enhances the education of teachers with strategies.

What is happening in Wisconsin is hardly professional. Their job is in the classroom. Their paramount concern.

At the same time, taxpayers have to understand that teachers have an obligtion that other public employees don't have. In my state, teachers are obligated to keep their certification current by returning for college work at their own expense every few years which is an expense that others do not have. This burden alone should not make them the first target of legislatures. I only ask that fairness be observed when looking at all professions and what is entailed with each.

As a former union rep are you saying that poor teachers cannot be fired? And what kind of feuds with great teachers did you experience? I'd like more details.

 

[Stephanie]

As I stated early on, other Union members will also contribute to the cause and bring Wisconsin to its knees. I am predicting a strong Union response across the board, either a National strike, or a state wide strike. Union members will not cross a Union picket line, so if they Union plumber in a state building, sorry, you are out of luck.

A union mechanic at Kraft Foods, Grabski fears that his livelihood will soon be in peril if the new governor prevails.

"If the state workers go, we are all next," said Grabski, who was tired, tearful and in need of a shave. "This is a defining moment, a defining issue for all of us. They are at war with the middle class."

Madison protests grow, and Senate Democrats dash | StarTribune.com

good deal, bring it on. BRING WISCONSION TO IT'S KNEES.
show the AMERCIAN people who DON'T BELONG TO A UNION just how far the Unions will go to get what they want, by DISRUPTING their lives and livelihoods..

then maybe they will WAKE up to see these Unions for what they are and get behind in the movement to bust THEM UP..

 

[LibocalypseNow]

This is all political. These Unions are well funded by the Democratic Party. The Teacher Unions have always put themselves and the Democratic Party before the kids. This is just more greed & political activism coming from them. This Wisconsin situation should not be surprising to anyone. As usual,only the kids will suffer. And while the Teacher Unions continue to play their games,the World continues to pass us up in Education. How sad.