Just Got My New Rates for 2017...350% Increase! Are You Kidding?

[Vandalshandle]

The insurance companies did write it. They mandated that everyone must buy they products and they have some time where they get to raise their rates.

We all know the aca needs to be fixed. Let's do it

Yeah, it needs flat out repealed. Unfortunately, I doubt you people will allow that to happen. You'll keep screwing up the system until we nationalize it, and people die on waiting lists like Canada.

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

 

[sealybobo]

Yeah, it needs flat out repealed. Unfortunately, I doubt you people will allow that to happen. You'll keep screwing up the system until we nationalize it, and people die on waiting lists like Canada.

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

And why not if free market capitalism is such a great system of healthcare dont they switch?

How many of us would want socialized healthcare if our employers weren't paying for it?

And isn't that another reasons companies go overseas? There they don't have the high cost of healthcare.

 

[MaryL]

The letter from Florida Blue arrived yesterday and my insurance premiums will have a 350% increase starting this January. Affordable Care Act? Thanks Barry! Thanks Harry! Thanks Nancy! Thanks Democrats!

What the hell happened to my savings of $2,500 a year?

I wonder. HOW does Obama think this is making things better? How? We help pay the medical bills for older poor unhealthy folks don't work and penalize healthy younger workers. This isn't working.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah, it needs flat out repealed. Unfortunately, I doubt you people will allow that to happen. You'll keep screwing up the system until we nationalize it, and people die on waiting lists like Canada.

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

That's not true. Canada. The public in Canada sued their own government, to demand a free-market capitalist based alternative.

Originally Canada was 100% socialist. There was no such thing as a private clinic, or private doctor. It was illegal to pay for better health care.

The citizens fed up with multi-year waiting lists, and being forced to go to the US for health care.... sued their government to eliminate the laws against private health care.

Today, there is private health insurance. Private health care clinics. Private doctor practices. Even some private hospitals.

Canada has completely reversed course. Now they haven't privatized the health care system completely, no.

And the US has had socialized health care for decades. That's where most of our health care problems were. That's also where most of Canada's health care problems still are.

But what you said is completely false.

Germany is another example. Nearly the entire population has private health insurance, and uses private health care clinics.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

That's not true. Canada. The public in Canada sued their own government, to demand a free-market capitalist based alternative.

Originally Canada was 100% socialist. There was no such thing as a private clinic, or private doctor. It was illegal to pay for better health care.

The citizens fed up with multi-year waiting lists, and being forced to go to the US for health care.... sued their government to eliminate the laws against private health care.

Today, there is private health insurance. Private health care clinics. Private doctor practices. Even some private hospitals.

Canada has completely reversed course. Now they haven't privatized the health care system completely, no.

And the US has had socialized health care for decades. That's where most of our health care problems were. That's also where most of Canada's health care problems still are.

But what you said is completely false.

Germany is another example. Nearly the entire population has private health insurance, and uses private health care clinics.

Nope, Andy.

Nope, nope, nope.

 

[Andylusion]

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

And why not if free market capitalism is such a great system of healthcare dont they switch?

How many of us would want socialized healthcare if our employers weren't paying for it?

And isn't that another reasons companies go overseas? There they don't have the high cost of healthcare.

Also not true. Companies have left France in droves, because taxes were so high, they couldn't compete, and left the country.

Someone has to pay the bill, whether they do so through insurance premiums, or though taxation.

That said, I don't know any company that has moved out of the US because of the "high cost of health care".

That's largely a myth made up by socialist health care promoters.

 

[Andylusion]

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

That's not true. Canada. The public in Canada sued their own government, to demand a free-market capitalist based alternative.

Originally Canada was 100% socialist. There was no such thing as a private clinic, or private doctor. It was illegal to pay for better health care.

The citizens fed up with multi-year waiting lists, and being forced to go to the US for health care.... sued their government to eliminate the laws against private health care.

Today, there is private health insurance. Private health care clinics. Private doctor practices. Even some private hospitals.

Canada has completely reversed course. Now they haven't privatized the health care system completely, no.

And the US has had socialized health care for decades. That's where most of our health care problems were. That's also where most of Canada's health care problems still are.

But what you said is completely false.

Germany is another example. Nearly the entire population has private health insurance, and uses private health care clinics.

Nope, Andy.

Nope, nope, nope.

Yup Vandy.

Yup yup yup.

 

[Andylusion]

With such premium increases, I am guessing the so-called Affordable Care Act must involve private capitalist insurance companies which care only about making big profits on the backs of ordinary people. If so, the Act needs to be repealed and replaced with proper socialized medical care.

Yeah, that way we can die on waiting lists like Canada, UK, France.... that's if we're luck enough to have a waiting list to get onto. Cuba, Venezuela, and Greece, and all the other socialized systems that went broke, you don't even have a list to get on.

Apparently you missed how amazing the VA system is.

 

[Andylusion]

The food industry pumps people full of unhealthy foods. The tobacco industry pumps them full of tobacco. The alcohol industry pumps them full of alcohol. The "illegal" drug industry pumps them full of the worst addictive substances. The pharmaceutical industry pumps them full of drugs. Then when they get sick, the hospital industry takes people in and charges outrageously for what should be simple procedures.

And who pays? Why, you do! The average, working American sucker!

How does it feel?

None of what you just said is true. People make choices. People choose to smoke. I never have. People choose to drink. I never have. People choose to do drugs. I never have.

Am I a super human? Do I have magical abilities to resist the super powers of all these industries?

Or maybe that's more American victimization wussy wimp blame shifting mentality. Grow up.

Second, as I have said numerous times, and will continue to say, it's the government, not the hospitals, that are driving up costs.

See when you setup a system where people have to pay for their own choices, like when they drink alcohol until they have health problems, and only they themselves have to pay that price of treatment.... people will be wiser in the choices they make.

But government just now, did exactly the opposite. For example banning the pre-existing condition clause. Well if someone drinks alcohol until they have a health issue, and then applies for coverage at the insurance company you have your policy with..... guess who pays for their treatments? You do.

Do this is the fault of socialism, not blaw blaw blaw industry and hospitals. The government did this with socialist regulations.

But government just now, did exactly the opposite. For example banning the pre-existing condition clause. Well if someone drinks alcohol until they have a health issue, and then applies for coverage at the insurance company you have your policy with..... guess who pays for their treatments? You do.

Andy, your point is well taken, but it falls short as an absolute. You are correct that most of us are responsible for making messes of our lives. Me, I smoked myself into mild emphysema before I quit 16 years ago. But what about the kid born with a leaky heart valve, or weak lungs? I worked with a woman whose husband got thrown out of an insurance plan years ago over a weak diseased heart. The plan was HealthPlus, an HMO. And I held her hand as she cried over her failed efforts to enroll him in another plan..any other plan. There were no takers. He died, of course. I know this is just another anecdotal story. And maybe he should have set aside those human feelings of wanting home and family when he was so sub-healthy all his life. Maybe he should have stayed on the outside looking in, but he was weak. And maybe the old plan of denial by insurers only hastened his inevitable death. Objectively, maybe denial of coverage for the incurable is logical. But I am more of a subjective person, and I praise the Act that would have added some time to this man's life, and some dignity, and maybe even saved for his survivors the homestead they lost. Maybe he was destined to die young, but to a loved one, time matters. 5, 10 more minutes is a gift. And if I seem too 'touchy-feely' I apologize. I do not participate in the ACA, and my insurance COB is higher than yours on an income about the same as yours. And I will gladly share my pittance to ease the lives of others.

Now here is my question.....

All those people you listed that supposedly couldn't get health insurance:

How do you claim allowing unlimited no pre-existing condition clause insurance, to all those people who paid zero into a policy, but now get total coverage by the insurance company....

How is that going to lower my premiums as you promise?

You don't see the problem here? You are demanding that insurance companies cover everyone. But insurance companies don't have even a penny that doesn't come from.... us... the premium payers. Unless it's subsidized which comes from.... us.... the tax payers.

So no matter which way you play this, demanding the insurance companies cover everyone, means that you are demanding our premiums go up, which is what we're seeing.

Now if you still think that's great.... fine. But at least admit you want to jack up the cost of insurance on the public. Be truthful and honest about it.

Don't play this game where "we can have unlimited insurance for 10¢ a month!" it's never going to happen. You can't have the insurance companies cover more people, and cover more treatments, and cover more medications, and yet charge lower prices. The "affordable" in the "affordable care act" is a lie. At least admit it.

 

[Andylusion]

The insurance companies did write it. They mandated that everyone must buy they products and they have some time where they get to raise their rates.

We all know the aca needs to be fixed. Let's do it

Yeah, it needs flat out repealed. Unfortunately, I doubt you people will allow that to happen. You'll keep screwing up the system until we nationalize it, and people die on waiting lists like Canada.

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

Which is odd, since roughly 1/4th of all medical tourism into the US for care, comes from Canada and Europe according to the Philadelphia International Medicine. PIM, is a company that specializes in finding international patients with care providers around the world.

That said, the US health care system is expensive, and we've covered some of the reasons why. Like cost shifting from Medicare to private patients, which drives up costs.

So UK patients and European patients, typically go to India, Brazil, Singapore, and other medical tourism hot spots over the US.

Here's the kicker. All of those places have Socialized gov-care in those countires too. Do you see those patients going to those gov-run-hospitals? No. They go to private pay-for-service Capitalist profit-driven hospitals in Singapore, in India, in Brazil.

Our US system is a hybrid socialized system. That's why it has the problems it has.

Over there, they have completely 100% free-market hospitals. That's where the Brits, and the French, and the Europeans go to.

Capitalism is always the better system. Always. No exception.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

And why not if free market capitalism is such a great system of healthcare dont they switch?

How many of us would want socialized healthcare if our employers weren't paying for it?

And isn't that another reasons companies go overseas? There they don't have the high cost of healthcare.

Also not true. Companies have left France in droves, because taxes were so high, they couldn't compete, and left the country.

Someone has to pay the bill, whether they do so through insurance premiums, or though taxation.

That said, I don't know any company that has moved out of the US because of the "high cost of health care".

That's largely a myth made up by socialist health care promoters.

Ford has been paying more for health care, per car produced, than for steel, since 1977, which is why there is a trainload of new Fords coming up by my house in the Santa Cruz River Valley from Nogales, Mexico every other night.

 

[Eloy]

With such premium increases, I am guessing the so-called Affordable Care Act must involve private capitalist insurance companies which care only about making big profits on the backs of ordinary people. If so, the Act needs to be repealed and replaced with proper socialized medical care.

Yeah, that way we can die on waiting lists like Canada, UK, France.... that's if we're luck enough to have a waiting list to get onto. Cuba, Venezuela, and Greece, and all the other socialized systems that went broke, you don't even have a list to get on.

Apparently you missed how amazing the VA system is.

You promote a system where an illness can financially wipe-out an ordinary family. "The U.S. health-care system is expensive, unfair, dangerous, corrupt and inefficient."
Health-care system is corrupt, unfair, doctor says

 

[Vandalshandle]

Andy, if you weren't so ill informed on health insurance, it would not be so frustrating to see such blatant misinformation posted. Having spent my entire career in middle and upper management of health insurance companies and HMO's, i spot republican talking point BS quickly. One does not spend 55 years running health insurance companies without getting a pretty clear picture of what was happening in this country. Major employers were on the verge of killing health insurance companies because they were saddled with the cost of employee health insurance, which is now about $1,200 per month, with dependent coverage, triple that. Major companies, like Disney, and Microsoft, and GM bypassed insurance company risk charges, and went self insured, to save money. They just hired us to pay the claims with their checkbooks. That wasn't enough, so they started moving assembly plants and manufacturing plants to places like Mexico, where they don't have to pay for health insurance. Chrysler has already announced that they are going to shut down their last US plant in a year or two. The next step was to cut back on paying 100% of employee costs, down to 50% of employee cost. Next, they are going to stop contributing to employee health plans entirely. Look for employee group health plans to be dead within one more decade. From there on out, if you don't have some sort of government controlled health insurance, all policies will be individual policies, which, unlike employer group policies, require evidence of good health from every single applicant.

Good luck with that,.

 

[Andylusion]

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

And why not if free market capitalism is such a great system of healthcare dont they switch?

How many of us would want socialized healthcare if our employers weren't paying for it?

And isn't that another reasons companies go overseas? There they don't have the high cost of healthcare.

Also not true. Companies have left France in droves, because taxes were so high, they couldn't compete, and left the country.

Someone has to pay the bill, whether they do so through insurance premiums, or though taxation.

That said, I don't know any company that has moved out of the US because of the "high cost of health care".

That's largely a myth made up by socialist health care promoters.

Ford has been paying more for health care, per car produced, than for steel, since 1977, which is why there is a trainload of new Fords coming up by my house in the Santa Cruz River Valley from Nogales, Mexico every other night.

The reason for this is the Unions. In fact, the last major Union contract directly allowed all three domestics to move production to Mexico, as a requirement for them signing the contract.

Detroit-to-Mexico shift predicted after auto union's big victory

Unions always drive out jobs.

If you need proof of this... all you have to do is look at the foreign non-union car companies.

500,000th Corolla Speeds Off the Line at Toyota Mississippi | Toyota

Toyota's Corolla plant, opened in 2011, was built in Mississippi.

Honda's Accord and NSX is built in Ohio starting 2014, and they opened another in Indiana in 2008.

List of Honda assembly plants - Wikipedia

VW Chattanooga opened in 2011 making Passat.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160307/OEM01/303079996/largest-bmw-plant-will-expand-this-year

BMW announced plans to expand their South Carolina plant, this after already being the largest manufacturing plant they own, and already increasing capacity and jobs by 1,200 since 2012.

Hyundai Expected to Build Genesis Models in Alabama

Hyundai expects to either drastically expand it's current Alabama facility, or build a whole new facility at the same location. This is to start building two new models in the US.

... Now what's my point?

All the foreign non-unionized companies are expanding into the US. Only the domestic Unionized companies are cutting back and laying off, and moving production out of the country.

That isn't to say most of those companies also have Mexico or other international plants. Many do. But they are still growing, expanding and creating more jobs and wealth in the US, while GM and Ford, and Chrysler, are all cutting back.

The problem isn't healthcare, unless you think the foreign companies have magic health care abilities that exempt them.

The problem is Unions. The only thing Unions do with any consistency, is destroy the jobs of their members.

 

[Andylusion]

Andy, if you weren't so ill informed on health insurance, it would not be so frustrating to see such blatant misinformation posted. Having spent my entire career in middle and upper management of health insurance companies and HMO's, i spot republican talking point BS quickly. One does not spend 55 years running health insurance companies without getting a pretty clear picture of what was happening in this country. Major employers were on the verge of killing health insurance companies because they were saddled with the cost of employee health insurance, which is now about $1,200 per month, with dependent coverage, triple that. Major companies, like Disney, and Microsoft, and GM bypassed insurance company risk charges, and went self insured, to save money. They just hired us to pay the claims with their checkbooks. That wasn't enough, so they started moving assembly plants and manufacturing plants to places like Mexico, where they don't have to pay for health insurance. Chrysler has already announced that they are going to shut down their last US plant in a year or two. The next step was to cut back on paying 100% of employee costs, down to 50% of employee cost. Next, they are going to stop contributing to employee health plans entirely. Look for employee group health plans to be dead within one more decade. From there on out, if you don't have some sort of government controlled health insurance, all policies will be individual policies, which, unlike employer group policies, require evidence of good health from every single applicant.

Good luck with that,.

Nothing you said, changed anything I said.

Are you going to address the fact that all these non-unionized companies are building manufacturing plants in the US? Or does being foreign magically make health care costs low? Same employees. Same US citizens. Same US health care system.

In fact, your own post makes my point. If the entire problem was the evil capitalist health insurance companies... then why didn't it fix the problem when they self insured?

Because that's not the problem.

The problem is government programs and regulations have driven up the cost of health care. The pathetic thing is, you look at that, and think jacking up more regulations and government programs, is the solution. It's not.

 

[Andylusion]

With such premium increases, I am guessing the so-called Affordable Care Act must involve private capitalist insurance companies which care only about making big profits on the backs of ordinary people. If so, the Act needs to be repealed and replaced with proper socialized medical care.

Yeah, that way we can die on waiting lists like Canada, UK, France.... that's if we're luck enough to have a waiting list to get onto. Cuba, Venezuela, and Greece, and all the other socialized systems that went broke, you don't even have a list to get on.

Apparently you missed how amazing the VA system is.

You promote a system where an illness can financially wipe-out an ordinary family. "The U.S. health-care system is expensive, unfair, dangerous, corrupt and inefficient."
Health-care system is corrupt, unfair, doctor says

I'd rather be financially wiped out, than dead. You have a system that heals me, I can keep earning money. I can earn back what I lost.

Dead people can't. Saving money, and dying, isn't a good trade off.



You tell this guy with a brain tumor, that it wasn't worth it to mortgage his home to get surgery, instead of waiting years with a lethal tumor in Canada.

Instead he paid the cash, and got healed. He can earn back the money he lost. Can't do that while having seizures for years, and hoping he doesn't die waiting.

That's where you people are so terrible. This is why every socialized system ruins the lives of the people. You would rather have him die.... than lose his house. What good is a house when you are dead?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Andy, if you weren't so ill informed on health insurance, it would not be so frustrating to see such blatant misinformation posted. Having spent my entire career in middle and upper management of health insurance companies and HMO's, i spot republican talking point BS quickly. One does not spend 55 years running health insurance companies without getting a pretty clear picture of what was happening in this country. Major employers were on the verge of killing health insurance companies because they were saddled with the cost of employee health insurance, which is now about $1,200 per month, with dependent coverage, triple that. Major companies, like Disney, and Microsoft, and GM bypassed insurance company risk charges, and went self insured, to save money. They just hired us to pay the claims with their checkbooks. That wasn't enough, so they started moving assembly plants and manufacturing plants to places like Mexico, where they don't have to pay for health insurance. Chrysler has already announced that they are going to shut down their last US plant in a year or two. The next step was to cut back on paying 100% of employee costs, down to 50% of employee cost. Next, they are going to stop contributing to employee health plans entirely. Look for employee group health plans to be dead within one more decade. From there on out, if you don't have some sort of government controlled health insurance, all policies will be individual policies, which, unlike employer group policies, require evidence of good health from every single applicant.

Good luck with that,.

Nothing you said, changed anything I said.

Are you going to address the fact that all these non-unionized companies are building manufacturing plants in the US? Or does being foreign magically make health care costs low? Same employees. Same US citizens. Same US health care system.

In fact, your own post makes my point. If the entire problem was the evil capitalist health insurance companies... then why didn't it fix the problem when they self insured?

Because that's not the problem.

The problem is government programs and regulations have driven up the cost of health care. The pathetic thing is, you look at that, and think jacking up more regulations and government programs, is the solution. It's not.

Ok, so, if you want to believe that the problem is unions, go ahead. I have no dog in that fight. But, what do you think the unions demand first from employers at contract negotiation time? They demand that employer swallow the employee health insurance cost. Take a company with 30,000 employees at $1,200 per employee per month health premiums. That comes to $446,400,000 per year (not including dependent premium costs, which would triple this figure). That translates into $446 million dollars per year that they do NOT incur in Mexico, because there is no such thing as employer paid health insurance there. As a stockholder, I would demand that they move assembly plants to Mexico.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Yeah, it needs flat out repealed. Unfortunately, I doubt you people will allow that to happen. You'll keep screwing up the system until we nationalize it, and people die on waiting lists like Canada.

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

China is transitioning into private insurance.

The rise of private health insurance in China

 

[sealybobo]

Yeah, it needs flat out repealed. Unfortunately, I doubt you people will allow that to happen. You'll keep screwing up the system until we nationalize it, and people die on waiting lists like Canada.

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

Which is odd, since roughly 1/4th of all medical tourism into the US for care, comes from Canada and Europe according to the Philadelphia International Medicine. PIM, is a company that specializes in finding international patients with care providers around the world.

That said, the US health care system is expensive, and we've covered some of the reasons why. Like cost shifting from Medicare to private patients, which drives up costs.

So UK patients and European patients, typically go to India, Brazil, Singapore, and other medical tourism hot spots over the US.

Here's the kicker. All of those places have Socialized gov-care in those countires too. Do you see those patients going to those gov-run-hospitals? No. They go to private pay-for-service Capitalist profit-driven hospitals in Singapore, in India, in Brazil.

Our US system is a hybrid socialized system. That's why it has the problems it has.

Over there, they have completely 100% free-market hospitals. That's where the Brits, and the French, and the Europeans go to.

Capitalism is always the better system. Always. No exception.

When you have money sure. Do you?

 

[sealybobo]

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

That's not true. Canada. The public in Canada sued their own government, to demand a free-market capitalist based alternative.

Originally Canada was 100% socialist. There was no such thing as a private clinic, or private doctor. It was illegal to pay for better health care.

The citizens fed up with multi-year waiting lists, and being forced to go to the US for health care.... sued their government to eliminate the laws against private health care.

Today, there is private health insurance. Private health care clinics. Private doctor practices. Even some private hospitals.

Canada has completely reversed course. Now they haven't privatized the health care system completely, no.

And the US has had socialized health care for decades. That's where most of our health care problems were. That's also where most of Canada's health care problems still are.

But what you said is completely false.

Germany is another example. Nearly the entire population has private health insurance, and uses private health care clinics.

Im so sick of Americans cons lying and exxagerating other countries healthcare problems.

Fact is for a broke ass like Andy socialized medicine is the only thing he can afford