Just Got My New Rates for 2017...350% Increase! Are You Kidding?

[Sun Devil 92]

We can't. That's what we are complaining about. The ACA drastically increased the minimum requirements for health insurance.

What that did was eliminate all the cheaper plans. I can't get a $67 insurance policy that covers just what I need anymore. Those plans don't exist.

Outside of the ACA, the cheapest priced insurance is now $250 to $300 a month.

I can not just go back to the private market. The ACA wiped out the private market. And I can't afford what is on the ACA.

So thanks to you people.... no insurance at all. Now you get to pay 100% of my health care needs. Serves you morons right.

Poor baby......

Typical left-winger. Always talking about how they stand up for the poor and lower-class. The moment you people meet the lower-class, your true selves are revealed, with mocking and insults.

Hypocrites. All of you. A non-hypocritical leftist, is like a dodo bird...

Have some Velveeta with that Night Train whine....

I would agree.

The sympathy is just overwhelming.

Now, if you cowtowed their point of view, my guess is that they would be very comforting.

Ok. I surrender. go ahead and repeal ACA. After all, that way I could resume my 50 year career as VP of life and health insurance underwriting. My job was to deny coverage to anyone I deemed to be a poor risk. Dying of congestive heart failure, for want of an open heart surgery? Tough shit, Here is a card. It has the number of an undertaker friend of mine. Give it to your wife.

Yep, let's default to the meme that is total crap.

1. Thanks for admitting you worked 50 years in the bloodsucker industry.
2. Now, tell us when you finally woke up.
3. Repealing the ACA isn't going to hurt any more than it will help.
4. To say there isn't an issue with insurance delivery is stupid.
5. It's just as stupid to say the ACA helps the issue.
6. Did you give these kind of silly responses when you were a VP ? If so, I suspect your company went under.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

That's not true. Canada. The public in Canada sued their own government, to demand a free-market capitalist based alternative.

Originally Canada was 100% socialist. There was no such thing as a private clinic, or private doctor. It was illegal to pay for better health care.

The citizens fed up with multi-year waiting lists, and being forced to go to the US for health care.... sued their government to eliminate the laws against private health care.

Today, there is private health insurance. Private health care clinics. Private doctor practices. Even some private hospitals.

Canada has completely reversed course. Now they haven't privatized the health care system completely, no.

And the US has had socialized health care for decades. That's where most of our health care problems were. That's also where most of Canada's health care problems still are.

But what you said is completely false.

Germany is another example. Nearly the entire population has private health insurance, and uses private health care clinics.

Im so sick of Americans cons lying and exxagerating other countries healthcare problems.

Fact is for a broke ass like Andy socialized medicine is the only thing he can afford

Where did he exaggerate ?

But, you point is true. In the end, people with big bills need help.

Our system isn't that good when it comes to spending.

The ACA has not helped that at all.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The insurance companies did write it. They mandated that everyone must buy they products and they have some time where they get to raise their rates.

We all know the aca needs to be fixed. Let's do it

Yeah, it needs flat out repealed. Unfortunately, I doubt you people will allow that to happen. You'll keep screwing up the system until we nationalize it, and people die on waiting lists like Canada.

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

That's not true. There are many I know who like our system.

 

[sealybobo]

Yeah, it needs flat out repealed. Unfortunately, I doubt you people will allow that to happen. You'll keep screwing up the system until we nationalize it, and people die on waiting lists like Canada.

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

That's not true. There are many I know who like our system.

Not so many I see their country privatizing.

I know many Germans and Brits who love how their socialized system took care of their parents.

My one British friend said he wouldn't have been able to start his business if he had to worry about paying for healthcare.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

That's not true. There are many I know who like our system.

Not so many I see their country privatizing.

I know many Germans and Brits who love how their socialized system took care of their parents.

My one British friend said he wouldn't have been able to start his business if he had to worry about paying for healthcare.

You said "No", which is a gross overgeneralization.

I think the European systems have a great deal to offer. But you'll never get anyone to agree to discuss the subject (who don't agree already) because of the toxic political environement.

Our leaders don't care about us (and neither Trump or Hillary are going to be any different).

I have Brit friend who indicated his daughter has big issues and the NHS was worthless (months upon months of waiting because she wasn't dying right then). Does that make the NHS bad...not in my book.

He indicated that a colleague of our in the states had a son with similar issues and they got taken care of quickly (employer paid insurance). Does that make that system wonderful....? No.

It says we have a great deal of work to do.

So do the Brits.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

And why not if free market capitalism is such a great system of healthcare dont they switch?

How many of us would want socialized healthcare if our employers weren't paying for it?

And isn't that another reasons companies go overseas? There they don't have the high cost of healthcare.

Also not true. Companies have left France in droves, because taxes were so high, they couldn't compete, and left the country.

Someone has to pay the bill, whether they do so through insurance premiums, or though taxation.

That said, I don't know any company that has moved out of the US because of the "high cost of health care".

That's largely a myth made up by socialist health care promoters.

Ford has been paying more for health care, per car produced, than for steel, since 1977, which is why there is a trainload of new Fords coming up by my house in the Santa Cruz River Valley from Nogales, Mexico every other night.

Uh, do you mean health insurance ?

And that isn't the only reason that train runs. Not by a long shot.

But the initial statistic is complelling.

There is a huge amount of retirement liability built into those cars too.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Poor baby......

Typical left-winger. Always talking about how they stand up for the poor and lower-class. The moment you people meet the lower-class, your true selves are revealed, with mocking and insults.

Hypocrites. All of you. A non-hypocritical leftist, is like a dodo bird...

Have some Velveeta with that Night Train whine....

I would agree.

The sympathy is just overwhelming.

Now, if you cowtowed their point of view, my guess is that they would be very comforting.

Ok. I surrender. go ahead and repeal ACA. After all, that way I could resume my 50 year career as VP of life and health insurance underwriting. My job was to deny coverage to anyone I deemed to be a poor risk. Dying of congestive heart failure, for want of an open heart surgery? Tough shit, Here is a card. It has the number of an undertaker friend of mine. Give it to your wife.

Yep, let's default to the meme that is total crap.

1. Thanks for admitting you worked 50 years in the bloodsucker industry.
2. Now, tell us when you finally woke up.
3. Repealing the ACA isn't going to hurt any more than it will help.
4. To say there isn't an issue with insurance delivery is stupid.
5. It's just as stupid to say the ACA helps the issue.
6. Did you give these kind of silly responses when you were a VP ? If so, I suspect your company went under.

Throughout most of my working career, I was a republican, and didn't give a rat's ass what happened to people who lost their insurance because they lost their job, and then found themselves unemployable, and uninsurable, due to health issues.

 

[Vandalshandle]

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

And why not if free market capitalism is such a great system of healthcare dont they switch?

How many of us would want socialized healthcare if our employers weren't paying for it?

And isn't that another reasons companies go overseas? There they don't have the high cost of healthcare.

Also not true. Companies have left France in droves, because taxes were so high, they couldn't compete, and left the country.

Someone has to pay the bill, whether they do so through insurance premiums, or though taxation.

That said, I don't know any company that has moved out of the US because of the "high cost of health care".

That's largely a myth made up by socialist health care promoters.

Ford has been paying more for health care, per car produced, than for steel, since 1977, which is why there is a trainload of new Fords coming up by my house in the Santa Cruz River Valley from Nogales, Mexico every other night.

Uh, do you mean health insurance ?

And that isn't the only reason that train runs. Not by a long shot.

But the initial statistic is complelling.

There is a huge amount of retirement liability built into those cars too.

Ford has not insured their employees since the early 1980's. They self fund their employees' health coverage.

 

[Eloy]

With such premium increases, I am guessing the so-called Affordable Care Act must involve private capitalist insurance companies which care only about making big profits on the backs of ordinary people. If so, the Act needs to be repealed and replaced with proper socialized medical care.

Yeah, that way we can die on waiting lists like Canada, UK, France.... that's if we're luck enough to have a waiting list to get onto. Cuba, Venezuela, and Greece, and all the other socialized systems that went broke, you don't even have a list to get on.

Apparently you missed how amazing the VA system is.

You promote a system where an illness can financially wipe-out an ordinary family. "The U.S. health-care system is expensive, unfair, dangerous, corrupt and inefficient."
Health-care system is corrupt, unfair, doctor says

I'd rather be financially wiped out, than dead. You have a system that heals me, I can keep earning money. I can earn back what I lost. ...

Before the Affordable Care Act, poor Americans did die from treatable illnesses.
I Watched My Patients Die of Treatable Diseases Because They Were Poor

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Typical left-winger. Always talking about how they stand up for the poor and lower-class. The moment you people meet the lower-class, your true selves are revealed, with mocking and insults.

Hypocrites. All of you. A non-hypocritical leftist, is like a dodo bird...

Have some Velveeta with that Night Train whine....

I would agree.

The sympathy is just overwhelming.

Now, if you cowtowed their point of view, my guess is that they would be very comforting.

Ok. I surrender. go ahead and repeal ACA. After all, that way I could resume my 50 year career as VP of life and health insurance underwriting. My job was to deny coverage to anyone I deemed to be a poor risk. Dying of congestive heart failure, for want of an open heart surgery? Tough shit, Here is a card. It has the number of an undertaker friend of mine. Give it to your wife.

Yep, let's default to the meme that is total crap.

1. Thanks for admitting you worked 50 years in the bloodsucker industry.
2. Now, tell us when you finally woke up.
3. Repealing the ACA isn't going to hurt any more than it will help.
4. To say there isn't an issue with insurance delivery is stupid.
5. It's just as stupid to say the ACA helps the issue.
6. Did you give these kind of silly responses when you were a VP ? If so, I suspect your company went under.

Throughout most of my working career, I was a republican, and didn't give a rat's ass what happened to people who lost their insurance because they lost their job, and then found themselves unemployable, and uninsurable, due to health issues.

You didn't give a rat's ass because you were a republican ? Are you saying that your compassion was based on your political affiliation.

Or are you saying that you suddenly developed compassion (after 50 years of drawing pretty good paycheck screwing people over) and then changed affiliations.

Either way, you don't sound like much of a human being to me.

I am a conservative and, like many of my fellow conservatives, have been watching people get hurt by the system since 1990. When Hillarycare was attempted, I didn't want it. But I kept telling people in my circle of influence that health insurance delivery was an issue (thanks to idiots like you) and that we needed to fix something.

The GOP along with the complicit democrats have only spent the last 30 years screwing people coming and going on health care.

Additionally, they have created a ruling 1% class.

I wonder if you ever figured out you were probably part of that when you were killing granny by denying her claims.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

With such premium increases, I am guessing the so-called Affordable Care Act must involve private capitalist insurance companies which care only about making big profits on the backs of ordinary people. If so, the Act needs to be repealed and replaced with proper socialized medical care.

Yeah, that way we can die on waiting lists like Canada, UK, France.... that's if we're luck enough to have a waiting list to get onto. Cuba, Venezuela, and Greece, and all the other socialized systems that went broke, you don't even have a list to get on.

Apparently you missed how amazing the VA system is.

You promote a system where an illness can financially wipe-out an ordinary family. "The U.S. health-care system is expensive, unfair, dangerous, corrupt and inefficient."
Health-care system is corrupt, unfair, doctor says

I'd rather be financially wiped out, than dead. You have a system that heals me, I can keep earning money. I can earn back what I lost. ...

Before the Affordable Care Act, poor Americans did die from treatable illnesses.
I Watched My Patients Die of Treatable Diseases Because They Were Poor

And I watched stupid people with insurance refuse to address health issues that wound up killing them.

I hate to break it to you, but there are still people dying from treatable diseases after the ACA. In fact, I venture to say that you'll see an increase in that as it has made general care very expensive.

 

[Eloy]

With such premium increases, I am guessing the so-called Affordable Care Act must involve private capitalist insurance companies which care only about making big profits on the backs of ordinary people. If so, the Act needs to be repealed and replaced with proper socialized medical care.

Yeah, that way we can die on waiting lists like Canada, UK, France.... that's if we're luck enough to have a waiting list to get onto. Cuba, Venezuela, and Greece, and all the other socialized systems that went broke, you don't even have a list to get on.

Apparently you missed how amazing the VA system is.

You promote a system where an illness can financially wipe-out an ordinary family. "The U.S. health-care system is expensive, unfair, dangerous, corrupt and inefficient."
Health-care system is corrupt, unfair, doctor says

I'd rather be financially wiped out, than dead. You have a system that heals me, I can keep earning money. I can earn back what I lost. ...

Before the Affordable Care Act, poor Americans did die from treatable illnesses.
I Watched My Patients Die of Treatable Diseases Because They Were Poor

Health care in the USA until the Affordable Health Care Act worked only for the wealthy and the insurance corporations.

And I watched stupid people with insurance refuse to address health issues that wound up killing them.

I hate to break it to you, but there are still people dying from treatable diseases after the ACA. In fact, I venture to say that you'll see an increase in that as it has made general care very expensive.

 

[HenryBHough]

Times of India now speculating that Trump will be elected because of the punishing new rates for Obamacare. Interesting take from that sort of politically organized country. No, link is by subscription and I doubt anyone who would challenge has the money to buy one.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Have some Velveeta with that Night Train whine....

I would agree.

The sympathy is just overwhelming.

Now, if you cowtowed their point of view, my guess is that they would be very comforting.

Ok. I surrender. go ahead and repeal ACA. After all, that way I could resume my 50 year career as VP of life and health insurance underwriting. My job was to deny coverage to anyone I deemed to be a poor risk. Dying of congestive heart failure, for want of an open heart surgery? Tough shit, Here is a card. It has the number of an undertaker friend of mine. Give it to your wife.

Yep, let's default to the meme that is total crap.

1. Thanks for admitting you worked 50 years in the bloodsucker industry.
2. Now, tell us when you finally woke up.
3. Repealing the ACA isn't going to hurt any more than it will help.
4. To say there isn't an issue with insurance delivery is stupid.
5. It's just as stupid to say the ACA helps the issue.
6. Did you give these kind of silly responses when you were a VP ? If so, I suspect your company went under.

Throughout most of my working career, I was a republican, and didn't give a rat's ass what happened to people who lost their insurance because they lost their job, and then found themselves unemployable, and uninsurable, due to health issues.

You didn't give a rat's ass because you were a republican ? Are you saying that your compassion was based on your political affiliation.

Or are you saying that you suddenly developed compassion (after 50 years of drawing pretty good paycheck screwing people over) and then changed affiliations.

Either way, you don't sound like much of a human being to me.

I am a conservative and, like many of my fellow conservatives, have been watching people get hurt by the system since 1990. When Hillarycare was attempted, I didn't want it. But I kept telling people in my circle of influence that health insurance delivery was an issue (thanks to idiots like you) and that we needed to fix something.

The GOP along with the complicit democrats have only spent the last 30 years screwing people coming and going on health care.

Additionally, they have created a ruling 1% class.

I wonder if you ever figured out you were probably part of that when you were killing granny by denying her claims.

Well, now, Sun, where youu are going wrong in your thinking is that you have some sort of notion that I CARE what you think about me. that seems to stem from another wrong notion that you have that this thread is about me.

You need to reboot both of those fallacies before continuing your quest for the truth.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I would agree.

The sympathy is just overwhelming.

Now, if you cowtowed their point of view, my guess is that they would be very comforting.

Ok. I surrender. go ahead and repeal ACA. After all, that way I could resume my 50 year career as VP of life and health insurance underwriting. My job was to deny coverage to anyone I deemed to be a poor risk. Dying of congestive heart failure, for want of an open heart surgery? Tough shit, Here is a card. It has the number of an undertaker friend of mine. Give it to your wife.

Yep, let's default to the meme that is total crap.

1. Thanks for admitting you worked 50 years in the bloodsucker industry.
2. Now, tell us when you finally woke up.
3. Repealing the ACA isn't going to hurt any more than it will help.
4. To say there isn't an issue with insurance delivery is stupid.
5. It's just as stupid to say the ACA helps the issue.
6. Did you give these kind of silly responses when you were a VP ? If so, I suspect your company went under.

Throughout most of my working career, I was a republican, and didn't give a rat's ass what happened to people who lost their insurance because they lost their job, and then found themselves unemployable, and uninsurable, due to health issues.

You didn't give a rat's ass because you were a republican ? Are you saying that your compassion was based on your political affiliation.

Or are you saying that you suddenly developed compassion (after 50 years of drawing pretty good paycheck screwing people over) and then changed affiliations.

Either way, you don't sound like much of a human being to me.

I am a conservative and, like many of my fellow conservatives, have been watching people get hurt by the system since 1990. When Hillarycare was attempted, I didn't want it. But I kept telling people in my circle of influence that health insurance delivery was an issue (thanks to idiots like you) and that we needed to fix something.

The GOP along with the complicit democrats have only spent the last 30 years screwing people coming and going on health care.

Additionally, they have created a ruling 1% class.

I wonder if you ever figured out you were probably part of that when you were killing granny by denying her claims.

Well, now, Sun, where youu are going wrong in your thinking is that you have some sort of notion that I CARE what you think about me. that seems to stem from another wrong notion that you have that this thread is about me.

You need to reboot both of those fallacies before continuing your quest for the truth.

Did I ever indicate that I thought you cared ?

In fact, the opposite. It is quite clear you only care about yourself.

I understand that 50 years is a long time to decompress from. Best of luck.

You really think I care about any advice you have for me ?

 

[Andylusion]

Andy, if you weren't so ill informed on health insurance, it would not be so frustrating to see such blatant misinformation posted. Having spent my entire career in middle and upper management of health insurance companies and HMO's, i spot republican talking point BS quickly. One does not spend 55 years running health insurance companies without getting a pretty clear picture of what was happening in this country. Major employers were on the verge of killing health insurance companies because they were saddled with the cost of employee health insurance, which is now about $1,200 per month, with dependent coverage, triple that. Major companies, like Disney, and Microsoft, and GM bypassed insurance company risk charges, and went self insured, to save money. They just hired us to pay the claims with their checkbooks. That wasn't enough, so they started moving assembly plants and manufacturing plants to places like Mexico, where they don't have to pay for health insurance. Chrysler has already announced that they are going to shut down their last US plant in a year or two. The next step was to cut back on paying 100% of employee costs, down to 50% of employee cost. Next, they are going to stop contributing to employee health plans entirely. Look for employee group health plans to be dead within one more decade. From there on out, if you don't have some sort of government controlled health insurance, all policies will be individual policies, which, unlike employer group policies, require evidence of good health from every single applicant.

Good luck with that,.

Nothing you said, changed anything I said.

Are you going to address the fact that all these non-unionized companies are building manufacturing plants in the US? Or does being foreign magically make health care costs low? Same employees. Same US citizens. Same US health care system.

In fact, your own post makes my point. If the entire problem was the evil capitalist health insurance companies... then why didn't it fix the problem when they self insured?

Because that's not the problem.

The problem is government programs and regulations have driven up the cost of health care. The pathetic thing is, you look at that, and think jacking up more regulations and government programs, is the solution. It's not.

Ok, so, if you want to believe that the problem is unions, go ahead. I have no dog in that fight. But, what do you think the unions demand first from employers at contract negotiation time? They demand that employer swallow the employee health insurance cost. Take a company with 30,000 employees at $1,200 per employee per month health premiums. That comes to $446,400,000 per year (not including dependent premium costs, which would triple this figure). That translates into $446 million dollars per year that they do NOT incur in Mexico, because there is no such thing as employer paid health insurance there. As a stockholder, I would demand that they move assembly plants to Mexico.

But again................

If all that was true, then why are all the other companies, BMW, VW, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, and dozens I didn't list..... Why are they all opening factories here in the US?

According to you, all of these companies should be moving their plants to Mexico.

If the problem was health care, then are all these other companies not paying health care? It's not health care. That's just BS crap, made up by the Unions, to explain why Union companies are going bankrupt, and non-union companies are not.

I get it that you don't care about the Unions, but you are touting their propaganda.

This narrative that it's health care costs that are the problem... is just simply not true.

You mentioned Ford for example.

Do you know how many manufacturing plants Ford has in the US? 26.

Do you know how many they have in Mexico? 4 including their newest one.

26 here in the US. 4 in Mexico.

Here you freaking out over the new Mexico plant, and claiming that it's health care costs driving all manufacturing into Mexico.... meanwhile Ford has 26 different manufacturing plants in the US, and some were recently expanded in 2009. (about three of them).

By your logic, Ford should have closed them all down and moved them to Mexico.

Why are they not doing this?

Because health care costs are not the problem. Back in 2006, Ford met with the Unions, and got concessions that allowed them to be profitable, even with the 2008 crash, which is why Ford was the only Union domestic that didn't need a bailout.

GM and Chrysler met with the Unions too, but the Unions refused to cut a deal, because they knew that Obama would be pro-Union, and back their cause... which as we now know, he did exactly what the special interests wanted.

When the Unions gave concessions, Ford expanded and created more jobs.

Did health care not affect Ford, while it destroyed GM and Chrysler? No, it did. Health care is not the problem. Unions were the problem.

 

[Andylusion]

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

That's not true. Canada. The public in Canada sued their own government, to demand a free-market capitalist based alternative.

Originally Canada was 100% socialist. There was no such thing as a private clinic, or private doctor. It was illegal to pay for better health care.

The citizens fed up with multi-year waiting lists, and being forced to go to the US for health care.... sued their government to eliminate the laws against private health care.

Today, there is private health insurance. Private health care clinics. Private doctor practices. Even some private hospitals.

Canada has completely reversed course. Now they haven't privatized the health care system completely, no.

And the US has had socialized health care for decades. That's where most of our health care problems were. That's also where most of Canada's health care problems still are.

But what you said is completely false.

Germany is another example. Nearly the entire population has private health insurance, and uses private health care clinics.

Im so sick of Americans cons lying and exxagerating other countries healthcare problems.

Fact is for a broke ass like Andy socialized medicine is the only thing he can afford

That simply isn't true. You are lying. In 2006, I had private insurance, for $67 a month, that didn't need a government subsidy, or a corporate backer.

It was paid for by me, and I could afford it.

Now, thanks to you liars, now I can't afford it, and it's your fault.

 

[Andylusion]

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

Which is odd, since roughly 1/4th of all medical tourism into the US for care, comes from Canada and Europe according to the Philadelphia International Medicine. PIM, is a company that specializes in finding international patients with care providers around the world.

That said, the US health care system is expensive, and we've covered some of the reasons why. Like cost shifting from Medicare to private patients, which drives up costs.

So UK patients and European patients, typically go to India, Brazil, Singapore, and other medical tourism hot spots over the US.

Here's the kicker. All of those places have Socialized gov-care in those countires too. Do you see those patients going to those gov-run-hospitals? No. They go to private pay-for-service Capitalist profit-driven hospitals in Singapore, in India, in Brazil.

Our US system is a hybrid socialized system. That's why it has the problems it has.

Over there, they have completely 100% free-market hospitals. That's where the Brits, and the French, and the Europeans go to.

Capitalism is always the better system. Always. No exception.

When you have money sure. Do you?

I could afford it, before you screwed up the system. Now I can't.

See this is how stupid you people are. You jack up taxes, to pay for health care, than say "you can afford it if you have money. Do you?"

Yeah, now I can't afford health care. Not because of Capitalism, but because of your socialism. I had insurance in the past, that I could pay for out of pocket. Now, thanks to you, I can't afford it.

Your fault dude. Not capitalism.

 

[Andylusion]

Canada laughs at you. Especially how much you are paying

You bet they are:

It's universal that the child-leftwing beliefs can be summed up by "the grass is always greener elsewhere".

When the WHO published their health care ranking that said France had the best health care in the world, it was amazing how many French rolled their eyes and laughed.

I had the same experience when I went on a long trip through Europe. I got back to the US, and all these lefties were talking about how great and wonderful Europe was. Everything they claimed about Europe, didn't match what I experienced living in Europe. Tiny little homes. Itty bitty junk cars that barely fit 2 people. People riding scooters half the size of a US Moped. No one had AC, not because it wasn't hot, but because they couldn't afford it. People hanging laundry to dry inside their homes, smaller than a college apartment, because no one could afford a clothes drier.

In the exact same way, everyone in the US says Canadian health care is fantastic. And they all assume Canadians love their health care system, until they actually meet Canadians.... and then shockingly, Canadians don't think their health care system is so great, especially when a hundred thousand Canadians seek treatment outside their country. Apparently 'free' isn't so wonderful.

No Canadian or European wants our healthcare.

..and not one single industrialize nation with universal health care has ever reversed direction and tried to switch to a system like ours.

China is transitioning into private insurance.

The rise of private health insurance in China

Yeah, exactly. In fact the biggest growth in Medical Tourism.... TO THE US..... is Chinese.

Medical Tourism On The Rise As Chinese Patients Seek Care At US Hospitals, American Companies Court China’s Healthcare Market

Not that the facts will chance the minds of these morons.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Andy, if you weren't so ill informed on health insurance, it would not be so frustrating to see such blatant misinformation posted. Having spent my entire career in middle and upper management of health insurance companies and HMO's, i spot republican talking point BS quickly. One does not spend 55 years running health insurance companies without getting a pretty clear picture of what was happening in this country. Major employers were on the verge of killing health insurance companies because they were saddled with the cost of employee health insurance, which is now about $1,200 per month, with dependent coverage, triple that. Major companies, like Disney, and Microsoft, and GM bypassed insurance company risk charges, and went self insured, to save money. They just hired us to pay the claims with their checkbooks. That wasn't enough, so they started moving assembly plants and manufacturing plants to places like Mexico, where they don't have to pay for health insurance. Chrysler has already announced that they are going to shut down their last US plant in a year or two. The next step was to cut back on paying 100% of employee costs, down to 50% of employee cost. Next, they are going to stop contributing to employee health plans entirely. Look for employee group health plans to be dead within one more decade. From there on out, if you don't have some sort of government controlled health insurance, all policies will be individual policies, which, unlike employer group policies, require evidence of good health from every single applicant.

Good luck with that,.

Nothing you said, changed anything I said.

Are you going to address the fact that all these non-unionized companies are building manufacturing plants in the US? Or does being foreign magically make health care costs low? Same employees. Same US citizens. Same US health care system.

In fact, your own post makes my point. If the entire problem was the evil capitalist health insurance companies... then why didn't it fix the problem when they self insured?

Because that's not the problem.

The problem is government programs and regulations have driven up the cost of health care. The pathetic thing is, you look at that, and think jacking up more regulations and government programs, is the solution. It's not.

Ok, so, if you want to believe that the problem is unions, go ahead. I have no dog in that fight. But, what do you think the unions demand first from employers at contract negotiation time? They demand that employer swallow the employee health insurance cost. Take a company with 30,000 employees at $1,200 per employee per month health premiums. That comes to $446,400,000 per year (not including dependent premium costs, which would triple this figure). That translates into $446 million dollars per year that they do NOT incur in Mexico, because there is no such thing as employer paid health insurance there. As a stockholder, I would demand that they move assembly plants to Mexico.

But again................

If all that was true, then why are all the other companies, BMW, VW, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, and dozens I didn't list..... Why are they all opening factories here in the US?

According to you, all of these companies should be moving their plants to Mexico.

If the problem was health care, then are all these other companies not paying health care? It's not health care. That's just BS crap, made up by the Unions, to explain why Union companies are going bankrupt, and non-union companies are not.

I get it that you don't care about the Unions, but you are touting their propaganda.

This narrative that it's health care costs that are the problem... is just simply not true.

You mentioned Ford for example.

Do you know how many manufacturing plants Ford has in the US? 26.

Do you know how many they have in Mexico? 4 including their newest one.

26 here in the US. 4 in Mexico.

Here you freaking out over the new Mexico plant, and claiming that it's health care costs driving all manufacturing into Mexico.... meanwhile Ford has 26 different manufacturing plants in the US, and some were recently expanded in 2009. (about three of them).

By your logic, Ford should have closed them all down and moved them to Mexico.

Why are they not doing this?

Because health care costs are not the problem. Back in 2006, Ford met with the Unions, and got concessions that allowed them to be profitable, even with the 2008 crash, which is why Ford was the only Union domestic that didn't need a bailout.

GM and Chrysler met with the Unions too, but the Unions refused to cut a deal, because they knew that Obama would be pro-Union, and back their cause... which as we now know, he did exactly what the special interests wanted.

When the Unions gave concessions, Ford expanded and created more jobs.

Did health care not affect Ford, while it destroyed GM and Chrysler? No, it did. Health care is not the problem. Unions were the problem.

There has not been a TV set manufactured in the USA since the 1980's. All fabric manufacturing has moved out. In short, all labor intensive businesses are moving out. Ford announced that they are shifting small car assembly to Mexico next year. Nothing is coming back. The labor cost in Mexico is less than 20% of the labor cost in the USA, and health care costs are a major part of the problem. No other country in the world saddles employers with this cost, so how is Chrysler supposed to compete with Toyota?Hyundai, etc., are building robotic plants in the US. The labor intensive plants that Ford used to have are gone. if your plant hires only 1/10th the number of employees that 1980 plants employed, you can afford to pay for some health care. My step-father built Fords in Atlanta and Hapeville, GA from 1922 to 1973. That plant is now permanently closed. if you walk in to a auto assembly plant that was built in the last 5 years, this is what you will see: