'Justice' In The Police State: Police Burn Dorner To Death...

[MikeK]

You are wrong on so many of your statements, I don't know where to begin.

I just watched a two hour long documentary on one of the cable channels about the whole Branch Davidian/Waco incident, where many people involved in the whole thing (ATF, FBI, former Branch Davidian members, etc.) were extensively interviewed and plenty of video and audio evidence was presented.

You need to get your "story" straight. No doubt, there was plenty of blame and wrongdoing on BOTH sides of the incident, but that doesn't excuse what "David Koresh" perpetrated and the crimes he committed against children, against his adult followers, and the federal firearms laws that he thumbed his nose at.

I am certainly not a fan of "big brother" and "big government", and I believe that the ATF and the FBI overstep their bounds on MANY occasions (Ruby Ridge is a perfect example), but in the case of Koresh, he got what he deserved, and unfortunately 80 other people decided to follow Koresh to their deaths.

I don't know what documentary you watched but I do know there never has been a more extensive effort to deceive the public, to conceal facts about a news event, and to propagate false information than that which has followed the massacre at Waco. While you and some others here obviously proceed with the assumption that my purpose is to portray David Koresh as a saintly Boy Scout, the truth is my opinion of Koresh and what happened at Waco was approximately the same as yours until someone I have cause to respect encouraged me to do some research on the subject.

There are voluminous reports available on the Internet which are compiled by others who have studied the facts, and there is a book written by one David Thibodeau, a Davidian and a survivor of the siege, A Place Called Waco, all of which will take time to digest and ponder. Those whose minds are already made up and who accept the government's side of the story out of hand will dismiss all of it as subjective versions from "the other side." So what I will recommend to you is that you take the time to peruse what is a condensed investigation of the facts and truth of what happened at Waco, and why, which has been compiled by professional journalists in the employ of such respectable news sources as The Associated Press, The Washington Times, The Houston Chronicle, The San Francisco Chronicle, Newsweek, The Houston Press, Reuters News Service, Nightline, The Houston Post, The Washington Post, and 60 Minutes.

You can find this compendium of sourced and footnoted truth and facts here: Assault on Waco

Whether or not you choose to review the information which has been carefully researched and compiled by professional journalists I have one question for you, the answer to which summarizes and simplifies my position on who was right and who was wrong at Waco.

The question:

Imagine you are the commanding officer of a SWAT team called to the scene of a standoff in which a group of suspected criminals led by a man believed to be insane are barricaded in a house, holding a dozen young children hostage, and are demanding to speak with reporters to explain their side of the story. These suspected criminals have announced their intention to kill the hostages if any effort is made to break in and arrest them.

My question is, what would you do? And why?

 

[Pogo]

Not buying the 'Manifesto' scam. Seen that re-run TV Show before. And in America, we are all innocent until proven guilty.

Too bad that Dorner was barbecued.

If he would have been taken alive, YOU could have started a "Chris Dorner Legal Defense Fund".

Why don't you grow some kahoonas, obtain the names and addresses of the families of Dorner's murder victims, and send all of them your own "manifesto" defending Dorner?

Manifesto. That one always cracks me up. How many more times is the Government/Media Complex gonna use that one? Yeah sure, everyone writes those long-winded 'Manifestos' right before they go out and commit crimes. Sure they do. Such convenient Government/Media Bullshit. But it sells i guess.

-- says the guy who fuels his wacko CT threads by sucking up all the YouTube, Alex Jones and stuff just made up out of thin air he can find...

 

[MikeK]

I have no sympathy on him. Saves the tax payers for him to spend time in jail and feed and house him. I just hope they pay these homeowners for burning their house down though.

In spite of what you might think, while Dorner was obviously insane there is nothing about his situation that evokes sympathy in me. And I believe the same may be said for the majority of those who are critical of the way our law enforcement agencies deal with such standoff situations as the Waco massacre and now this. These law enforcement agents are taking it upon themselves to proceed in a manner which is typical of police state tactics.

In the example of Waco, the bottom line of a legitimately motivated investigation would reveal the FBI/HRT was pressured to end the standoff but they didn't know how and neither the degenerate President Bill Clinton nor the incompetent freak, Attorney General Janet Reno, could -- or would -- tell them how. So they took it upon themselves and the outcome was 21 innocent children burned to death. And those responsible for such a moral outrage and de facto crime were left to deny what they had consciously done and to fabricate and lie about every aspect of the unnecessary and horrendous 51-day siege against a group of peaceful people who had done no harm to anyone.

What happened at Waco was a perversion of civilized law enforcement practice and procedure. And what just happened at Big Bear is a statement that we've learned nothing from it. It appears the standard operating procedure in such situations has become the police taking it upon themselves to employ what is in fact a barbaric solution -- then denying what they've deliberately and knowingly done.

Why the need to deny it? The fact is no one with political authority wished to give the order to deploy tear gas canisters which burn at 2800f and are certain to ignite anything flammable because there is something cruelly uncivilized about that method of terminating a standoff. And the way that method is employed, by pretending it was unintentional, is reprehensibly sneaky and deceitful.

If such a method is to be used, some ranking public official should give the order to warn the occupants of the standoff they have ten minutes to surrender or the premises will be set afire. But the fact that no one wants to assume that responsibility is in itself a clear statement of the brutal ugliness of the act. So the police should not be permitted (or tacitly required) to take it upon themselves to do it.

Only in a police state are police expected to exercise that kind of power! And that is what was wrong at Waco and at Big Bear.

 

[S.J.]

He was napalmed.

 

[Katzndogz]

The coward shot himself.

 

[paulitician]

What if he was innocent? Amazing, so many can't bring themselves to ask that question. All most can do, is cheer & celebrate the man's death. They just don't care about the disturbing tactics used by those who are supposed to be upholding the Law. We are in real trouble in this country. This Police State grows more more bold and oppressive by the day. I'm afraid to say, the future does not look bright.

 

[paulitician]

I have no sympathy on him. Saves the tax payers for him to spend time in jail and feed and house him. I just hope they pay these homeowners for burning their house down though.

In spite of what you might think, while Dorner was obviously insane there is nothing about his situation that evokes sympathy in me. And I believe the same may be said for the majority of those who are critical of the way our law enforcement agencies deal with such standoff situations as the Waco massacre and now this. These law enforcement agents are taking it upon themselves to proceed in a manner which is typical of police state tactics.

In the example of Waco, the bottom line of a legitimately motivated investigation would reveal the FBI/HRT was pressured to end the standoff but they didn't know how and neither the degenerate President Bill Clinton nor the incompetent freak, Attorney General Janet Reno, could -- or would -- tell them how. So they took it upon themselves and the outcome was 21 innocent children burned to death. And those responsible for such a moral outrage and de facto crime were left to deny what they had consciously done and to fabricate and lie about every aspect of the unnecessary and horrendous 51-day siege against a group of peaceful people who had done no harm to anyone.

What happened at Waco was a perversion of civilized law enforcement practice and procedure. And what just happened at Big Bear is a statement that we've learned nothing from it. It appears the standard operating procedure in such situations has become the police taking it upon themselves to employ what is in fact a barbaric solution -- then denying what they've deliberately and knowingly done.

Why the need to deny it? The fact is no one with political authority wished to give the order to deploy tear gas canisters which burn at 2800f and are certain to ignite anything flammable because there is something cruelly uncivilized about that method of terminating a standoff. And the way that method is employed, by pretending it was unintentional, is reprehensibly sneaky and deceitful.

If such a method is to be used, some ranking public official should give the order to warn the occupants of the standoff they have ten minutes to surrender or the premises will be set afire. But the fact that no one wants to assume that responsibility is in itself a clear statement of the brutal ugliness of the act. So the police should not be permitted (or tacitly required) to take it upon themselves to do it.

Only in a police state are police expected to exercise that kind of power! And that is what was wrong at Waco and at Big Bear.

Great observations. Thanks.

 

[Misty]

This has probably already been posted but autopsy shows that dorner died from a bullet to his head, self inflicted. So he didn't burn to death.

 

[paulitician]

This has probably already been posted but autopsy shows that dorner died from a bullet to his head, self inflicted. So he didn't burn to death.

Possibly so, but they did intentionally set the fire. And that's very disturbing.

 

[hazlnut]

What if he was innocent?

Call Oliver Stone with that crazy shit.

 

[hazlnut]

This has probably already been posted but autopsy shows that dorner died from a bullet to his head, self inflicted. So he didn't burn to death.

Hopefully some of his nerves were still firing so he could feel his skin burning.

 

[paulitician]

This has probably already been posted but autopsy shows that dorner died from a bullet to his head, self inflicted. So he didn't burn to death.

Hopefully some of his nerves were still firing so he could feel his skin burning.

And what if he really was innocent? And they did intentionally set the fire. Things you should ponder a bit.

 

[Katzndogz]

This has probably already been posted but autopsy shows that dorner died from a bullet to his head, self inflicted. So he didn't burn to death.

Hopefully some of his nerves were still firing so he could feel his skin burning.

And what if he really was innocent? And they did intentionally set the fire. Things you should ponder a bit.

He wasn't innocent. In the incident that led to the fire he had killed a US forestry agent and wounded another.

 

[paulitician]

Hopefully some of his nerves were still firing so he could feel his skin burning.

And what if he really was innocent? And they did intentionally set the fire. Things you should ponder a bit.

He wasn't innocent. In the incident that led to the fire he had killed a US forestry agent and wounded another.

You declaring him not innocent, doesn't make it so. That's not Justice. What do you really know? And their tactics were very disturbing throughout this whole ordeal. It's not just intentionally setting the fire. They shot several innocent people in the process of searching for him.

 

[Katzndogz]

And what if he really was innocent? And they did intentionally set the fire. Things you should ponder a bit.

He wasn't innocent. In the incident that led to the fire he had killed a US forestry agent and wounded another.

You declaring him not innocent, doesn't make it so. That's not Justice. What do you really know? And their tactics were very disturbing throughout this whole ordeal. It's not just intentionally setting the fire. They shot several innocent people in the process of searching for him.

Several? Really several? They shot two. And that was on a special protection detail where the two were acting suspiciously.

 

[paulitician]

He wasn't innocent. In the incident that led to the fire he had killed a US forestry agent and wounded another.

You declaring him not innocent, doesn't make it so. That's not Justice. What do you really know? And their tactics were very disturbing throughout this whole ordeal. It's not just intentionally setting the fire. They shot several innocent people in the process of searching for him.

Several? Really several? They shot two. And that was on a special protection detail where the two were acting suspiciously.

They shot at numerous vehicles that fit the description of the vehicle Dorner was driving. It was pretty messed up. Regardless, you declaring him not innocent, doesn't make it so. You just don't have enough knowledge and information to decide that. What do you really know? You seem to just want to defend the Police no matter what. And i'll just never understand why you feel so compelled to do that.

 

[Katzndogz]

We are all very lucky that Christopher Dorner was killed before he turned into another Beltway Sniper.

 

[Pogo]

This has probably already been posted but autopsy shows that dorner died from a bullet to his head, self inflicted. So he didn't burn to death.

Told ya.

But who are we to say, perhaps Paulitician is "innocent" of making shit up in his thread title. Perhaps mega-Billionaire Anderson Cooper, a well-known CIA operative, took control of his keyboard behind a green screen.

 

[paulitician]

This has probably already been posted but autopsy shows that dorner died from a bullet to his head, self inflicted. So he didn't burn to death.

Told ya.

But who are we to say, perhaps Paulitician is "innocent" of making shit up in his thread title. Perhaps mega-Billionaire Anderson Cooper, a well-known CIA operative, took control of his keyboard behind a green screen.

"Told ya" what? You don't know anything. You feel compelled to defend the Police no matter what they do. It's just Authority-Worship. Nothing more. Hopefully, one day you'll snap out of it.

 

[Pogo]

This has probably already been posted but autopsy shows that dorner died from a bullet to his head, self inflicted. So he didn't burn to death.

Told ya.

But who are we to say, perhaps Paulitician is "innocent" of making shit up in his thread title. Perhaps mega-Billionaire Anderson Cooper, a well-known CIA operative, took control of his keyboard behind a green screen.

"Told ya" what? You don't know anything. You feel compelled to defend the Police no matter what they do. It's just Authority-Worship. Nothing more. Hopefully, one day you'll snap out of it.

Trust me, "authority worship" is something I've never done in my life, particularly on the police, and you won't find any in my posts anywhere including here. I won't "defend" the police but I will always defend the truth, which you burned to death in your title here. And elsewhere.

You had no basis for 'burned to death", and you ran with it anyway. Hence: "told ya". Just as you called them "LAPD". Start dealing in the factual and there will be nothing to tell. Your points, however worthy they may be (as here) will never be conveyed effectively if you're a known fabricator.