Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[beagle9]

I think even if he is not charged the law will be changed. You have an obligation as a CC owner to not start an incident. Standing your ground in your residence is one thing, this is quite another.

The shooter didn't instigate violence - he responded to violence.

Engaging a woman (being a man) who was a complete stranger over a handicap spot could cause any number of reactions by her husband, boyfriend, by standers etc.

 

[Lewdog]

No. He said it can fit within the bookends of the law... which there are like 10 different situations that could fit the SYG defense, HOWEVER he said it isn't up to him whether the law actually fits the evidence, and it is up to the prosecutor to decide. Really folks, you are trying to make this into theoretical physics, when it is pretty simple.

"Gualtieri said the incident falls under the state’s ‘stand your ground’ law that allows someone to use deadly force if they believe it necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm. He said his office will forward the case to prosecutors for a final decision."

You aren't saying the whole quote. You guys really love to cherrypick don't you? Can you be honest and let me know if you are going to be dishonest like that the rest of this discussion? It will save me time and I'll just ignore you.

Stop lying.

"Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri told reporters during a Friday press conference that Thursday’s shooting death of Markeis McGlockton, a 28-year-old father of three, is “within the bookends of stand your ground and within the bookends of force being justified,” the Tampa Bay Times reports.

“I’m not saying I agree with it, but I don’t make that call,” Gualtieri told reporters, adding that his agency will now forward the case to the State Attorney’s Office for a final decision."

Read the last sentence. Again, do you not understand? It's not clear to the point where he can arrest him and then let the prosecutor take the case. He sends the evidence to the state for THEM to decide if there is a criminal case or not. The sheriff doesn't decide whether there is a case or not.... This is basic civics.

Than why didnt he arrest him and hold him until the SA made his ruling?
The Sheriff has said repeatedly that his actions were within SYG laws.
It's all over the fuken internet for Christ sake.

I told you why... it's not clear cut enough for him to arrest him without the fucking prosecutor deciding if it fits the law or not. Not everyone that gets charged with a crime and goes to criminal court gets arrested at the time the crime takes place. Please tell me you know this.

 

[beagle9]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

Easy to be am armchair quarterback in these situations but you weren't the one who was assaulted and you have no idea what your own reaction would be to being the victim of a violent physical assault.

True, but we are supposed to be trained to overcome our emotions once the situation was under control, and the attacker disengaged, and even stepped back.

Supposed to be trained?

Where is that stipulation in any law regarding self defense?

Concealed permit holder right ?? Are you suggesting that concealed carry permits are found in cracker jack boxes ??

 

[OODA_Loop]

Someone harasses my wife......they better step back real quick before I get there. Mr do gooder civic duty guy was clear instigator...go to jail.....

I would recommend drawing from your kindergarten experience and not attacking someone for words.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

"Gualtieri said the incident falls under the state’s ‘stand your ground’ law that allows someone to use deadly force if they believe it necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm. He said his office will forward the case to prosecutors for a final decision."

You aren't saying the whole quote. You guys really love to cherrypick don't you? Can you be honest and let me know if you are going to be dishonest like that the rest of this discussion? It will save me time and I'll just ignore you.

Stop lying.

"Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri told reporters during a Friday press conference that Thursday’s shooting death of Markeis McGlockton, a 28-year-old father of three, is “within the bookends of stand your ground and within the bookends of force being justified,” the Tampa Bay Times reports.

“I’m not saying I agree with it, but I don’t make that call,” Gualtieri told reporters, adding that his agency will now forward the case to the State Attorney’s Office for a final decision."

Read the last sentence. Again, do you not understand? It's not clear to the point where he can arrest him and then let the prosecutor take the case. He sends the evidence to the state for THEM to decide if there is a criminal case or not. The sheriff doesn't decide whether there is a case or not.... This is basic civics.

Than why didnt he arrest him and hold him until the SA made his ruling?
The Sheriff has said repeatedly that his actions were within SYG laws.
It's all over the fuken internet for Christ sake.

I told you why... it's not clear cut enough for him to arrest him without the fucking prosecutor deciding if it fits the law or not. Not everyone that gets charged with a crime and goes to criminal court gets arrested at the time the crime takes place. Please tell me you know this.

The Sheriff has said repeatedly that the shooting falls inline with SYG laws.
In fact it's all over the internet.

 

[Lewdog]

SHERIFFS DON'T DECIDE WHETHER TO INDICT SOMEONE FOR A CRIME! Jesus fucking Christ you people are dumb as a box of rocks.

Sheriffs do effect arrests. Not in this case due to the reasonable doubt of a SYG defense.

First, it would be 'affect' not 'effect.' Secondly, there has to be enough probable cause for the sheriff to arrest a person on the spot given the evidence at hand at the time. When it comes to a situation like this, where the law needs to be interpreted by the prosecutor, the sheriff doesn't arrest them. Ok. I'm done, if you guys don't understand how simple civics and law work by now, you never will.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Engaging a woman (being a man) who was a complete stranger over a handicap spot could cause any number of reactions by her husband, boyfriend, by standers etc.

Responding with violence can get your arrested or worse.

 

[OODA_Loop]

First, it would be 'affect' not 'effect.' Secondly, there has to be enough probable cause for the sheriff to arrest a person on the spot given the evidence at hand at the time. When it comes to a situation like this, where the law needs to be interpreted by the prosecutor, the sheriff doesn't arrest them. Ok. I'm done, if you guys don't understand how simple civics and law work by now, you never will.

If it was clearly murder the Sherrif would have arrested. Not in this case.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Someone harasses my wife......they better step back real quick before I get there. Mr do gooder civic duty guy was clear instigator...go to jail.....

I would recommend drawing from your kindergarten experience and not attacking someone for words.

Fighten words.….Law will be changed...…….guy must have been bothering her for some time to get her worked up enough and then to stand there as boy friend appears...he wanted a fight.....

 

[Lewdog]

You aren't saying the whole quote. You guys really love to cherrypick don't you? Can you be honest and let me know if you are going to be dishonest like that the rest of this discussion? It will save me time and I'll just ignore you.

Stop lying.

"Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri told reporters during a Friday press conference that Thursday’s shooting death of Markeis McGlockton, a 28-year-old father of three, is “within the bookends of stand your ground and within the bookends of force being justified,” the Tampa Bay Times reports.

“I’m not saying I agree with it, but I don’t make that call,” Gualtieri told reporters, adding that his agency will now forward the case to the State Attorney’s Office for a final decision."

Read the last sentence. Again, do you not understand? It's not clear to the point where he can arrest him and then let the prosecutor take the case. He sends the evidence to the state for THEM to decide if there is a criminal case or not. The sheriff doesn't decide whether there is a case or not.... This is basic civics.

Than why didnt he arrest him and hold him until the SA made his ruling?
The Sheriff has said repeatedly that his actions were within SYG laws.
It's all over the fuken internet for Christ sake.

I told you why... it's not clear cut enough for him to arrest him without the fucking prosecutor deciding if it fits the law or not. Not everyone that gets charged with a crime and goes to criminal court gets arrested at the time the crime takes place. Please tell me you know this.

The Sheriff has said repeatedly that the shooting falls inline with SYG laws.
In fact it's all over the internet.

He's not in the position to make that final decision. That's obvious by the fact HE SAID HE IS PASSING THE EVIDENCE OVER TO THE PEOPLE HE SAID MAKES THE FUCKING DECISION. It's in his fucking statement that you even posted.

Do you read what you post?

“I’m not saying I agree with it, but I don’t make that call,” Gualtieri told reporters, adding that his agency will now forward the case to the State Attorney’s Office for a final decision."

 

[OODA_Loop]

Fighten words.….Law will be changed...…….guy must have been bothering here for some time to get her worked up enough and then to stand there as boy friend appears...he wanted a fight.....

Not enough cause for arrest, Nothing will happen.

Get touchy you get what you get.

 

[OODA_Loop]

He's not in the position to make that final decision. That's obvious by the fact HE SAID HE IS PASSING THE EVIDENCE OVER TO THE PEOPLE HE SAID MAKES THE FUCKING DECISION. It's in his fucking statement that you even posted.

Sheriff makes the initial investigatory decision, In this case = no arrest,

Telling.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Stop lying.

"Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri told reporters during a Friday press conference that Thursday’s shooting death of Markeis McGlockton, a 28-year-old father of three, is “within the bookends of stand your ground and within the bookends of force being justified,” the Tampa Bay Times reports.

“I’m not saying I agree with it, but I don’t make that call,” Gualtieri told reporters, adding that his agency will now forward the case to the State Attorney’s Office for a final decision."

Read the last sentence. Again, do you not understand? It's not clear to the point where he can arrest him and then let the prosecutor take the case. He sends the evidence to the state for THEM to decide if there is a criminal case or not. The sheriff doesn't decide whether there is a case or not.... This is basic civics.

Than why didnt he arrest him and hold him until the SA made his ruling?
The Sheriff has said repeatedly that his actions were within SYG laws.
It's all over the fuken internet for Christ sake.

I told you why... it's not clear cut enough for him to arrest him without the fucking prosecutor deciding if it fits the law or not. Not everyone that gets charged with a crime and goes to criminal court gets arrested at the time the crime takes place. Please tell me you know this.

The Sheriff has said repeatedly that the shooting falls inline with SYG laws.
In fact it's all over the internet.

He's not in the position to make that final decision. That's obvious by the fact HE SAID HE IS PASSING THE EVIDENCE OVER TO THE PEOPLE HE SAID MAKES THE FUCKING DECISION. It's in his fucking statement that you even posted.

Do you read what you post?

“I’m not saying I agree with it, but I don’t make that call,” Gualtieri told reporters, adding that his agency will now forward the case to the State Attorney’s Office for a final decision."

Which of course I've stated multiple times.

 

[Circe]

Okay, I went to some local news sources in Clearwater. So the dead guy was black, as was the whole family (all three children were there! two were in the car with the mom. The couple had been together nine years. It was a male-headed household with small children. It's so sad.). The shooter was white, one Michael Drejka.

A black guy, Rich Kelly, told the local TV news station that a month ago the same guy also harassed him about that handicapped parking space: Kelly was also parking in it. He said the white guy said he'd call his company and tell on him..

From www.tampabay.com: "A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot.

"The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said."

Kelly said he thought it was a racially motivated incident. They didn't get into a physical fight (Kelly is pretty big).

Could be race. But it's all so focused on that handicapped parking space issue that I am not convinced that race matters. The guy Drejka (age 47) seems to have just been completely nuts on the subject of people following the rules on those parking spaces!

Interestingly, while the station said the shooter, Michael Drejka, was white, so far I cannot find any identified photos of him. Usually these come up pretty fast. Off the grid?

Same site, www.tampabay.com: "Records show Drejka does not have a criminal history in Florida, although the Sheriff’s Office had prior contact with him in 2012 when a driver accused him of pulling a gun during a road rage incident. Drejka denied he showed the gun, and the accuser declined to press charges."

 

[Manonthestreet]

Fighten words.….Law will be changed...…….guy must have been bothering here for some time to get her worked up enough and then to stand there as boy friend appears...he wanted a fight.....

Not enough cause for arrest, Nothing will happen.

Get touchy you get what you get.

You are playing right into the caricature libs paint of CC owners...….

 

[G.T.]

The steps backward the man clearly made as the gun was being pulled means the guy will be tried and convicted of Murder. Good, another scumbag off the street.

 

[OODA_Loop]

You are playing right into the caricature libs paint of CC owners...….

Nope I mind my own funeral until you put your hands on me.

 

[CHAZBUKOWSKI]

If you start screaming at a woman in a parking lot while her boyfriend is in the shop while you're armed, you don't belong around guns

It depends on the situation there sport. I agree in principle, but so long as you don't pull the weapon, then what is your beef?

Gun safety starts with avoiding dangerous situations where possible. You don't create a dangerous situation where there could be a shooting. If you're screaming at a woman and her boyfriend is coming out, that right there is setting up a dangerous situation. I mean duh. How do you not get that?

I'm disappointed in all of you who apparently don't view being armed in public as a responsiblity. Particularly 2aguy who is a longtime ally in arguing 2nd amendment rights. What about try NOT to use your gun eludes you?

Armed, or not one is obligated to act responsibly in public. It’s a good idea to do the same in private as well. As to what constitutes him screaming at her... That’s subjective, and we have no idea if she was “screaming” at him in kind. Nor who “screamed” first.
As for doing this while her boyfriend was coming out of the store... It’s unlikely that the victim knew he was being approached by her boyfriend. Otherwise he would likely have made some move to defend himself against an approaching threat. As for the assailaints moral high ground... Muh dicking for your girlfriend gets no traction. He could have just as easily displayed his virtue by telling the driver not to park in the handicapped spot.
And for those bleeding hearts who assume the assailants location indicated the assault was over... You‘re merely speculating. The assault is only over when the assailant decides its over; or when he’s rendered incapable of furthering the assault. The victim made the choice in this case, by opting for choice two.

Yes, and by repeatedly being aggressive and armed, death was the eventual outcome, which is why it was murder. That isn't how you act when you're armed

Being armed has nothing to do with how you should act.

Sure as shit does. I carry concealed and I definitely am not going to inject myself into confrontations for this very reason

 

[OODA_Loop]

The steps backward the man clearly made as the gun was being pulled means the guy will be tried and convicted of Murder. Good, another scumbag off the street.

Cops didn't arrest - so probably not.

 

[Manonthestreet]

You are playing right into the caricature libs paint of CC owners...….

Nope I mind my own funeral until you put your hands on me.

Which isn't what happened here...ooooops