Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

Shooting in self defense is not a punishment.

Shooting in self-defense is only justified if it they are in grave imminent danger. This guy wasn't. You're a hack. Cool beans, you've shown your true colors.

In some states, yes – in Florida, not.

Even Florida Zimmerman had injuries to the back of his head, and there was no video of the actual confrontation so it was Zimmerman's word against that of a dead guy and a girl that was just on the cell phone. This whole confrontation was caught on video. This guy is fucking toast.

And the Zimmerman debacle is why the shooter in this case won’t become ‘toast.’

 

[cwise76]

Again, so do you believe in the Constitution or not? I want to make sure to hold you to this.

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

Shooting in self defense is not a punishment.

Shooting in self-defense is only justified if it they are in grave imminent danger. This guy wasn't. You're a hack. Cool beans, you've shown your true colors.

In some states, yes – in Florida, not.

Come to Florida for the sun the beaches and if you’re luc

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

It was verbal, the guy made it physical therefore the guy who got shot was the aggressor. You never go from verbal to physical.

True, but the case is going to be looked at in the narrow time zone where the push was made, the gun was drawn, the reaction of the pusher after the gun was drawn, the shot being taken, and the history of the shooter.

I’m not so sure the history of the shooter is as strong a bit of evidence as some might think. Because he was still demonstrably assaulted, and the victim of a crime. It would be like holding a rape victims past against her, just because she was a prostitute. Even douchebags, and scumbags can be victims of crime.

Yes true, but the details of this case might force the issue of looking at the shooters past just to make sure that he wasn't looking for a fight or stalking this store parking lot for that fight.

Thats already been established. Fucking guy was looking to kill someone. Now it’s time for him to go to prison. May justice prevail

 

[Vastator]

Agreed. And having been blindsided by an unknown party with enough force to take you off your feet, and then having them upright standing over you; while you are now completely defenseless save for your gun; sounds like the perfect reason to shoot in self defense. Remember... there is no prior conversation between the victim, and the assailant. He has no way of knowing his intent, or motivations.

A guy came into the store and told the father something, which caused him to head out there..

I would never shoot a person for pushing me down, ever, and dont appreciate anyone owning deadly weapons that feels the opposite....Thats fucking insanity as a threshold. Also doing so without second thought and without seeing a weapon on the guy that pushed you..if you dont have your WITS about you you dont need to be carrying guns.

None of us can know “what”, visually speaking the victim could see with what level of detail after being assaulted.. To wait the seconds for one could need for your vision to clear; is more than enough time for an assailant to end your life.

If you shoot first ask questions later after being pushed down, you need a shrink and not a gun.

Better than a coroner. No?

Thats where I'm hoping he ends up. The less of these psychotics around the better. I'll take 500, 000 men who push someone away from their wife and kids than a single emotional basketcase who gets his little manballs by way of a pistol permit and then goes out looking for trouble

There was no wife in this story GT. You’re a better debater than to straw man, and argue from emotion. And youre usually level headed enough to recognize a crime when you see one. Douchbaggery is not a crime. And it is not grounds for assault without consequence. Legally, or otherwise.

 

[Vastator]

Agreed. And having been blindsided by an unknown party with enough force to take you off your feet, and then having them upright standing over you; while you are now completely defenseless save for your gun; sounds like the perfect reason to shoot in self defense. Remember... there is no prior conversation between the victim, and the assailant. He has no way of knowing his intent, or motivations.

A guy came into the store and told the father something, which caused him to head out there..

I would never shoot a person for pushing me down, ever, and dont appreciate anyone owning deadly weapons that feels the opposite....Thats fucking insanity as a threshold. Also doing so without second thought and without seeing a weapon on the guy that pushed you..if you dont have your WITS about you you dont need to be carrying guns.

None of us can know “what”, visually speaking the victim could see with what level of detail after being assaulted.. To wait the seconds for one could need for your vision to clear; is more than enough time for an assailant to end your life.

If you shoot first ask questions later after being pushed down, you need a shrink and not a gun.

Better than a coroner. No?

Thats where I'm hoping he ends up. The less of these psychotics around the better. I'll take 500, 000 men who push someone away from their wife and kids than a single emotional basketcase who gets his little manballs by way of a pistol permit and then goes out looking for trouble

He will. But then... Won’t we all?

 

[Lewdog]

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

Shooting in self defense is not a punishment.

Shooting in self-defense is only justified if it they are in grave imminent danger. This guy wasn't. You're a hack. Cool beans, you've shown your true colors.

In some states, yes – in Florida, not.

Even Florida Zimmerman had injuries to the back of his head, and there was no video of the actual confrontation so it was Zimmerman's word against that of a dead guy and a girl that was just on the cell phone. This whole confrontation was caught on video. This guy is fucking toast.

And the Zimmerman debacle is why the shooter in this case won’t become ‘toast.’

Why? I just explained to you the most important difference. Zimmerman's case was based on just Zimmerman's word. This case is all caught on video. They aren't even remotely the same case.

 

[G.T.]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

Actually, yelling (threatening someone) is assault – it can be either a misdemeanor or a felony; battery is physical contact, a felony.

And in Florida either warrant the use of deadly force as a means of self-defense when the person attacked has a reasonable fear of bodily injury or death from the attacker, even if that attack is verbal in nature only.

You have no idea what the guy was saying.
Battery,what the black guy did is assault

You have no idea what the law is: there is no difference between yelling and assault – ‘big’ or otherwise.

Yelling can be perceived as a threat, justifying the use of deadly force as self-defense; physical contact (battery) is not required to justify the use of deadly force in Florida.

Yelling at someone is not assault.

 

[Vastator]

Let the court and a jury decide.

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

It was verbal, the guy made it physical therefore the guy who got shot was the aggressor. You never go from verbal to physical.

True, but the case is going to be looked at in the narrow time zone where the push was made, the gun was drawn, the reaction of the pusher after the gun was drawn, the shot being taken, and the history of the shooter.

I’m not so sure the history of the shooter is as strong a bit of evidence as some might think. Because he was still demonstrably assaulted, and the victim of a crime. It would be like holding a rape victims past against her, just because she was a prostitute. Even douchebags, and scumbags can be victims of crime.

Yes true, but the details of this case might force the issue of looking at the shooters past just to make sure that he wasn't looking for a fight or stalking this store parking lot for that fight.

It may. But his past isn’t likely to be proven to have triggered his own assault.

 

[Vastator]

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

Shooting in self defense is not a punishment.

Shooting in self-defense is only justified if it they are in grave imminent danger. This guy wasn't. You're a hack. Cool beans, you've shown your true colors.

In some states, yes – in Florida, not.

Come to Florida for the sun the beaches and if you’re luc

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

It was verbal, the guy made it physical therefore the guy who got shot was the aggressor. You never go from verbal to physical.

True, but the case is going to be looked at in the narrow time zone where the push was made, the gun was drawn, the reaction of the pusher after the gun was drawn, the shot being taken, and the history of the shooter.

I’m not so sure the history of the shooter is as strong a bit of evidence as some might think. Because he was still demonstrably assaulted, and the victim of a crime. It would be like holding a rape victims past against her, just because she was a prostitute. Even douchebags, and scumbags can be victims of crime.

Yes true, but the details of this case might force the issue of looking at the shooters past just to make sure that he wasn't looking for a fight or stalking this store parking lot for that fight.

Thats already been established. Fucking guy was looking to kill someone. Now it’s time for him to go to prison. May justice prevail

No it hasn’t. In fact; you’re statement is pure conjecture, and nothing more.

 

[Lewdog]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

Also notice that the guys wife was outside the car and the shooter stepped up into her face before he was pushed to the ground. That is flat out murder.

 

[Vastator]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

What kind of distance could you achieve by backing up for five continuous seconds? Try it. Time yourself, and report back with your distance. The fact is the assailant stayed in “the bubble”. He just didn’t know his victim was armed...

 

[G.T.]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

Also notice that the guys wife was outside the car and the shooter stepped up into her face before he was pushed to the ground. That is flat out murder.

Pretty gross. The way the murderer just sits there and calculates the shot before pulling the trigger... as the guy is backing away.

 

[G.T.]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

What kind of distance could you achieve by backing up for five continuous seconds? Try it. Time yourself, and report back with your distance. The fact is the assailant stayed in “the bubble”. He just didn’t know his victim was armed...

Im not sure anyone who sees that video and feels the shooting is justified belongs owning a gun, and I am sure that the man who pulled the trigger belongs off the streets permanently.

 

[Vastator]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

Also notice that the guys wife was outside the car and the shooter stepped up into her face before he was pushed to the ground. That is flat out murder.

Pretty gross. The way the murderer just sits there and calculates the shot before pulling the trigger... as the guy is backing away.

It’s called aiming. Would you have preferred a blind mag dump?

 

[G.T.]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

Also notice that the guys wife was outside the car and the shooter stepped up into her face before he was pushed to the ground. That is flat out murder.

Pretty gross. The way the murderer just sits there and calculates the shot before pulling the trigger... as the guy is backing away.

It’s called aiming. Would you have preferred a blind mag dump?

We have nothing left to talk about. If he can see to aim, he can see a man clearly backing away, as can you.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Shooting in self defense is not a punishment.

Shooting in self-defense is only justified if it they are in grave imminent danger. This guy wasn't. You're a hack. Cool beans, you've shown your true colors.

In some states, yes – in Florida, not.

Even Florida Zimmerman had injuries to the back of his head, and there was no video of the actual confrontation so it was Zimmerman's word against that of a dead guy and a girl that was just on the cell phone. This whole confrontation was caught on video. This guy is fucking toast.

And the Zimmerman debacle is why the shooter in this case won’t become ‘toast.’

Why? I just explained to you the most important difference. Zimmerman's case was based on just Zimmerman's word. This case is all caught on video. They aren't even remotely the same case.

Of course they would be the same case – Zimmerman was charged with murder, and so would the shooter in the OP be charged with murder.

And the shooter in the OP would be likewise acquitted – which is why the State won’t charge him; the State doesn’t want the embarrassment of another failed prosecution as with the Zimmerman case, and the subsequent bad PR.

Moreover, the video in the OP clearly shows that the shooting was lawful, which is why the shooter wasn't charged at the scene and taken into custody.

Some might not agree with the law or think that the law is ‘wrong’, ‘bad,’ or ‘immoral’ – but it’s the law nonetheless.

 

[cwise76]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

Also notice that the guys wife was outside the car and the shooter stepped up into her face before he was pushed to the ground. That is flat out murder.

Pretty gross. The way the murderer just sits there and calculates the shot before pulling the trigger... as the guy is backing away.

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve watched the video half a dozen times and the lasting impression is cold blooded murder. I’m not sure why it i such a stretch for some to see this.

 

[Vastator]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

What kind of distance could you achieve by backing up for five continuous seconds? Try it. Time yourself, and report back with your distance. The fact is the assailant stayed in “the bubble”. He just didn’t know his victim was armed...

Im not sure anyone who sees that video and feels the shooting is justified belongs owning a gun, and I am sure that the man who pulled the trigger belongs off the streets permanently.

“Not being sure” is what is called reasonable doubt, in a court of law. And reasonable doubt is all that’s required to render a not guilty verdict. It’s a shitty case no doubt. But the man being assaulted first, makes this case a loser to bring to trial. The local DAs likely have more pressing; and less ambiguous cases to bring before the court.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

Shooting in self defense is not a punishment.

Shooting in self-defense is only justified if it they are in grave imminent danger. This guy wasn't. You're a hack. Cool beans, you've shown your true colors.

In some states, yes – in Florida, not.

Come to Florida for the sun the beaches and if you’re luc

How would you decide if you were on the jury based on the video evidence?

It was verbal, the guy made it physical therefore the guy who got shot was the aggressor. You never go from verbal to physical.

True, but the case is going to be looked at in the narrow time zone where the push was made, the gun was drawn, the reaction of the pusher after the gun was drawn, the shot being taken, and the history of the shooter.

I’m not so sure the history of the shooter is as strong a bit of evidence as some might think. Because he was still demonstrably assaulted, and the victim of a crime. It would be like holding a rape victims past against her, just because she was a prostitute. Even douchebags, and scumbags can be victims of crime.

Yes true, but the details of this case might force the issue of looking at the shooters past just to make sure that he wasn't looking for a fight or stalking this store parking lot for that fight.

Thats already been established. Fucking guy was looking to kill someone. Now it’s time for him to go to prison. May justice prevail

Come to Florida and don’t threaten or attack people and you’ll be fine.

 

[cwise76]

Here is a video that shows more clearly WHEN the shot was fired, and is in real time and so you can clearly determine theres a good 5 or so full seconds of BACKING UP and NO FURTHER CONTACT.

Anyone thinking this shooting is justified does not belong owning a gun, holy shit.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/amp/

What kind of distance could you achieve by backing up for five continuous seconds? Try it. Time yourself, and report back with your distance. The fact is the assailant stayed in “the bubble”. He just didn’t know his victim was armed...

Im not sure anyone who sees that video and feels the shooting is justified belongs owning a gun, and I am sure that the man who pulled the trigger belongs off the streets permanently.

“Not being sure” is what is called reasonable doubt, in a court of law. And reasonable doubt is all that’s required to render a not guilty verdict. It’s a shitty case no doubt. But the man being assaulted first, makes this case a loser to bring to trial. The local DAs likely have more pressing; and less ambiguous cases to bring before the court.

Hmmmm that seems highly unlikely