Kamala Harris Denies Govt-Run Single Payer is 'Socialism'

[Andylusion]

Sure it. It socializes health insurance, putting it under control of government.

But let's grant you your conceit. Let's say it isn't, according to your definition, "socialism". It doesn't change a single thing about why I don't like it. It's still giving government way too much power. It's still putting Donald Trump in charge of my family's health insurance and that's something I'll fight hard to avoid.

No it is not socialism. No NO NO NO No No No No No No No.

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

Insurance companies have a goal of profits. Medicare does not.

You are taking how things work in Canada, or should I say the way you think things work oin Canada & assuming they would apply here.

You are also assuming that all medical care would have to go through single payer. There s nothing to say you can 't supplement any single payer with private insurance much as you can do with Medicare.

If you people would quit running in circles, waving your arms about & screaming "OMH OMG OMG"., you might actually discover what single payer is all about.

And please, don;t give me this " I pay cash" bullshit.

I did pay cash.

You are right, insurance companies do work for some profit... and they provide me a much better service than Medicare does.

Medicare is garbage.

Just like the VA's secret waiting lists.

Regardless, you talk about having supplemental insurance.... but that defeats the purpose. Why should I be forced to pay double the tax rate, and then STILL have to have private health insurance, because gov-care sucks?

That makes no sense.



Helping doctors refuse Medicare and Medicaid.

Why does such a thing exist if gov-care is so great?

 

[dblack]

If the CEO of the insurance company decides he isn't going to cover something that I want covered, I can cancel that insurance, and get other insurance. Which I have done in the past.

You cannot buy health insurance from any health insurer in the country. The government, particularly the Republicans, have made sure of that.

And THAT's the problem that needs to be addressed.

So...slam dunk. UHC is inevitable.

Only if we let it happen. We don't have to wait around for the Republicans to do something.

 

[g5000]

Instead of getting sucked into the stupid tactic of word games, the Democrats should just hammer and hammer and hammer the point home that the Republicans have offered NOTHING to solve the problem of skyrocketing health care costs.

"Here's our answer, there's their answer. Who do you think actually cares about you? The fuckwits who are doing NOTHING to help you, or us?

Slam dunk.

I don't want the government "caring" about me.

Most people want someone to do something about skyrocketing health care costs. Trump and the Republicans have shown they don't give a flying fuck about doing something about it.

So...slam dunk.

Yeah. Maybe. The dunking (aka political victory) doesn't interest me as much as deciding the best policy. I agree with you Republicans need to address the issue. But this notion that the government is there to 'care' for us is exactly what gets us into these problems in the first place.

I am deeply opposed to UHC.

But the writing is on the wall. The Republicans, and all the stupid credulous rubes who vote for them, have ensured that UHC is inevitable.

When Obama reigned, the Republicans passed 60 repeals of Obamacare.

After they got all the power, ZERO.

Come on, man. It is so obvious the GOP has been hoaxing the rubes for a very long time. And the rubes are too fucking stupid to catch on or get pissed about it.

So it is their fault we are going to end up with UHC. The rubes never demanded the GOP offer up an alternative to UHC.

They will never blame themselves, though. They are too stupid.

 

[Andylusion]

Sure it. It socializes health insurance, putting it under control of government.

But let's grant you your conceit. Let's say it isn't, according to your definition, "socialism". It doesn't change a single thing about why I don't like it. It's still giving government way too much power. It's still putting Donald Trump in charge of my family's health insurance and that's something I'll fight hard to avoid.

No it is not socialism. No NO NO NO No No No No No No No.

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficiennt that insurance companies.

Medicare is not even remotely more efficient. Not even close.

The over head on Medicare is much higher per person.

The only numbers people who make that bogus claim use, are over all expenses verses revenue.

That's a false comparison, because Medicare covers people who are old. People who are old, are naturally more likely to use the service. Thus naturally from selection bias, you will end up with more dollars spent towards providing care.

But if you look at the cost of running Medicare itself, on a per person basis, the over head costs of Medicare are much higher than private insurance.

It's just the private insurance, has more people like me, who haven't been to a hospital in almost 10 years.

 

[McRocket]

'socialism
noun
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods'

Definition of SOCIALISM

As Don't Taz Me Bro rightly said...single payer healthcare is THE VERY definition of socialism.

It is clear that progressives generally appear to be in DEEP denial about the actual definition of socialism.

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

The subject is single payer...not medicare.

With Medicare, you have a choice. With Single payer, you do not.

Under Single Payer (like in the UK), every, single doctor is a government employee. So every, single surgery performed is 'owned' by the government as they 'own' the hospital, all the equipment and employee all the nurses, doctors, specialists, staff, paper pushers...everyone. They decide the costs, charges, who pays and when.
And since virtually no other private healthcare is allowed, that means the government has a complete monopoly on almost all medical treatments.

Of course it is socialism.

Jesus Christ. get a fucking education.

Medicare IS single payer.

You are so fucking stupid that you do npo know what single payer is.

LOL...it is you who is clueless on this. And what are you freaking out about? It's just a conversation...get a grip.

'Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare[1] financed by taxes that covers the costs of essential healthcare for all residents, with costs covered by a single public system (hence 'single-payer').'

Single-payer healthcare - Wikipedia


Medicare is optional. No one HAS to be on it...they can opt for private healthcare instead. And it is insurance...not an entire, medical system (which single-payer is).

Single payer means you have NO OPTIONS. You cannot opt for private healthcare because little/none exists.

In Canada, for example, if you need a pacemaker? A heart bypass? A hip replacement? There is only one place to get it...from the government healthcare. It is illegal in Canada (which has single payer) to have these operations from the private sector. Flat out illegal.

THAT is single payer...you have few/no choices.

And that IS socialism...BY DEFINITION.

Whether you like it or not.

"Single-payer" describes the mechanism by which healthcare is paid for by a single public authority, not the type of delivery or for whom physicians work, which may be public, private, or a mix of both.

You are missing the point. Almost all physicians in Canada are private. But almost all of them can ONLY get their pay from the government AND only at the rates the government says. So, they maybe private, but the government has a near COMPLETE MONOPOLY of where and how much these doctors can charge/make. There is ZERO competition in this respect.

It's like opening a private bowling alley. But the government tells you what to charge for shoe rentals, cost of bowling, food you sell...EVERYTHING. And you are not allowed to ask for one penny more for ANY service the government mandates. This destroys competition and means the ONLY way to make more money is to work more hours. Innovation gets you nothing.

There are almost no private hospitals in Canada. And the one or two there are are strictly for the wealthy and they are doing so against the Canada Health Act so are technically illegal. But, because of huge shortages of doctors/specialists (and because they cater to the rich), the government looks the other way...to a point.

 

[ph3iron]

"Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) on Tuesday defended her support for “Medicare for all,” saying it is not a socialist idea.

"No, no. It’s about providing health care to all people," Harris said"



Kamala Harris is embarrassing herself while proving although she cal lie her ass off about Democrat Health Care BS she is still no Barak Obama...




Harris: 'Medicare for all' is not socialism

.

Keep the gov out of my Medicare as the trumpie said
Time you knew the origin of snowflake?
Pro slavery white boys

 

[McRocket]

Sure it. It socializes health insurance, putting it under control of government.

But let's grant you your conceit. Let's say it isn't, according to your definition, "socialism". It doesn't change a single thing about why I don't like it. It's still giving government way too much power. It's still putting Donald Trump in charge of my family's health insurance and that's something I'll fight hard to avoid.

No it is not socialism. No NO NO NO No No No No No No No.

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficient that insurance companies.

No they are not. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Canada has virtually no private hospitals.

Ontario - by far the most populated province - has over 13 million people and 492 hospitals. Only two are private...and they are very small at that and are public/private.

Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

 

[g5000]

No it is not socialism. No NO NO NO No No No No No No No.

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

Insurance companies have a goal of profits. Medicare does not.

You are taking how things work in Canada, or should I say the way you think things work oin Canada & assuming they would apply here.

You are also assuming that all medical care would have to go through single payer. There s nothing to say you can 't supplement any single payer with private insurance much as you can do with Medicare.

If you people would quit running in circles, waving your arms about & screaming "OMH OMG OMG"., you might actually discover what single payer is all about.

And please, don;t give me this " I pay cash" bullshit.

I did pay cash.

You are right, insurance companies do work for some profit... and they provide me a much better service than Medicare does.

Medicare is garbage.

Just like the VA's secret waiting lists.

Regardless, you talk about having supplemental insurance.... but that defeats the purpose. Why should I be forced to pay double the tax rate, and then STILL have to have private health insurance, because gov-care sucks?

That makes no sense.



Helping doctors refuse Medicare and Medicaid.

Why does such a thing exist if gov-care is so great?

2 things.

1. I am a military retiree. I know a lot of retirees and vets who use the VA, including my father, and they are all very pleased with the care they have been getting from the VA.

2. You clearly don't know what supplemental insurance is and what it is for. It has zero to do with the quality of care you receive. Supplemental insurance is to help cover a co-pay. You still see the same doctors, and receive the same care. Co-pays help keep the cost to taxpayers down. The individual receiving care pays part of the cost so the taxpayers don't have to. If you don't want co-pays, you get supplemental health insurance to cover it.

 

[ph3iron]

No it is not socialism. No NO NO NO No No No No No No No.

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficiennt that insurance companies.

Medicare is not even remotely more efficient. Not even close.

The over head on Medicare is much higher per person.

The only numbers people who make that bogus claim use, are over all expenses verses revenue.

That's a false comparison, because Medicare covers people who are old. People who are old, are naturally more likely to use the service. Thus naturally from selection bias, you will end up with more dollars spent towards providing care.

But if you look at the cost of running Medicare itself, on a per person basis, the over head costs of Medicare are much higher than private insurance.

It's just the private insurance, has more people like me, who haven't been to a hospital in almost 10 years.

I thought Medicare overhead was 4%, private 20%
Maybe why my nephew private insurance guy makes $5000000 a year?

 

[ph3iron]

No it is not socialism. No NO NO NO No No No No No No No.

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficient that insurance companies.

No they are not. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Canada has virtually no private hospitals.

Ontario - by far the most populated province - has over 13 million people and 492 hospitals. Only two are private...and they are very small at that.

Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

How many Canadians and English like their NHS?
> 90%?

 

[g5000]

No it is not socialism. No NO NO NO No No No No No No No.

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficient that insurance companies.

No they are not. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Canada has virtually no private hospitals.

Ontario - by far the most populated province - has over 13 million people and 492 hospitals. Only two are private...and they are very small at that.

Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

The hospitals in Canada are not owned by the government.

 

[McRocket]

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficient that insurance companies.

No they are not. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Canada has virtually no private hospitals.

Ontario - by far the most populated province - has over 13 million people and 492 hospitals. Only two are private...and they are very small at that.

Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

How many Canadians and English like their NHS?
> 90%?

1) link...I am not interested in your guesses.

2) Well duh. That is the only system most of them have ever known. And all they hear about is how horrible the U.S. system is...so they love it.

But being content with your fat, bitchy wife when the only alternative you think you have is an even fatter, bitchier wife is not the same as being happy with your wife.

You talk to most seniors in Canada (the people who use the system the most by FAR)...and I bet you most of them do NOT like the system. But ask them if they want the American mess instead - and they will probably say 'NOPE'.

 

[Eric Cartman]

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

The subject is single payer...not medicare.

With Medicare, you have a choice. With Single payer, you do not.

Under Single Payer (like in the UK), every, single doctor is a government employee. So every, single surgery performed is 'owned' by the government as they 'own' the hospital, all the equipment and employee all the nurses, doctors, specialists, staff, paper pushers...everyone. They decide the costs, charges, who pays and when.
And since virtually no other private healthcare is allowed, that means the government has a complete monopoly on almost all medical treatments.

Of course it is socialism.

Jesus Christ. get a fucking education.

Medicare IS single payer.

You are so fucking stupid that you do npo know what single payer is.

LOL...it is you who is clueless on this. And what are you freaking out about? It's just a conversation...get a grip.

'Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare[1] financed by taxes that covers the costs of essential healthcare for all residents, with costs covered by a single public system (hence 'single-payer').'

Single-payer healthcare - Wikipedia


Medicare is optional. No one HAS to be on it...they can opt for private healthcare instead. And it is insurance...not an entire, medical system (which single-payer is).

Single payer means you have NO OPTIONS. You cannot opt for private healthcare because little/none exists.

In Canada, for example, if you need a pacemaker? A heart bypass? A hip replacement? There is only one place to get it...from the government healthcare. It is illegal in Canada (which has single payer) to have these operations from the private sector. Flat out illegal.

THAT is single payer...you have few/no choices.

And that IS socialism...BY DEFINITION.

Whether you like it or not.

"Single-payer" describes the mechanism by which healthcare is paid for by a single public authority, not the type of delivery or for whom physicians work, which may be public, private, or a mix of both.

You are missing the point. Almost all physicians in Canada are private. But almost all of them can ONLY get their pay from the government AND only at the rates the government says. So, they maybe private, but the government has a near COMPLETE MONOPOLY of where and how much these doctors can charge/make. There is ZERO competition in this respect.

It's like opening a private bowling alley. But the government tells you what to charge for shoe rentals, cost of bowling, food you sell...EVERYTHING. And you are not allowed to ask for one penny more for ANY service the government mandates. This destroys competition and means the ONLY way to make more money is to work more hours. Innovation gets you nothing.

There are almost no private hospitals in Canada. And the one or two there are are strictly for the wealthy and they are doing so against the Canada Health Act so are technically illegal. But, because of huge shortages of doctors/specialists (and because they cater to the rich), the government looks the other way...to a point.

I think they should let Private insurance compete and in reality Medicare for all would never pass through Congress without several compromises. Private insurance companies sure didn't want to compete against a public option when the ACA was being debated. I for one would be happy if Medicare of all started as a catastrophic policy that allowed private insurance and medicaid to fill in the gaps.

 

[Lesh]

Come on, man. It is so obvious the GOP has been hoaxing the rubes for a very long time. And the rubes are too fucking stupid to catch on or get pissed about it.

Fucking lemmings.

The over head on Medicare is much higher per person.

Overall costs for Medicare are 3% as opposed to 20% for private insurance under ACA (mandated to be no higher) . Before the ACA it was as much as 30%

That's a false comparison, because Medicare covers people who are old. People who are old, are naturally more likely to use the service. Thus naturally from selection bias, you will end up with more dollars spent towards providing care

Exactly. Medicare covers older sicker people at a far lower cost than private insurance. You just shot your argument to shit

I thought Medicare overhead was 4%, private 20%

It's actually 3%

 

[Lesh]

And to be clear..."socialism" is state ownership of the means of production

Not influence. Not regulation. Not tax breaks

OWNERSHIP

 

[McRocket]

The subject is single payer...not medicare.

With Medicare, you have a choice. With Single payer, you do not.

Under Single Payer (like in the UK), every, single doctor is a government employee. So every, single surgery performed is 'owned' by the government as they 'own' the hospital, all the equipment and employee all the nurses, doctors, specialists, staff, paper pushers...everyone. They decide the costs, charges, who pays and when.
And since virtually no other private healthcare is allowed, that means the government has a complete monopoly on almost all medical treatments.

Of course it is socialism.

Jesus Christ. get a fucking education.

Medicare IS single payer.

You are so fucking stupid that you do npo know what single payer is.

LOL...it is you who is clueless on this. And what are you freaking out about? It's just a conversation...get a grip.

'Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare[1] financed by taxes that covers the costs of essential healthcare for all residents, with costs covered by a single public system (hence 'single-payer').'

Single-payer healthcare - Wikipedia


Medicare is optional. No one HAS to be on it...they can opt for private healthcare instead. And it is insurance...not an entire, medical system (which single-payer is).

Single payer means you have NO OPTIONS. You cannot opt for private healthcare because little/none exists.

In Canada, for example, if you need a pacemaker? A heart bypass? A hip replacement? There is only one place to get it...from the government healthcare. It is illegal in Canada (which has single payer) to have these operations from the private sector. Flat out illegal.

THAT is single payer...you have few/no choices.

And that IS socialism...BY DEFINITION.

Whether you like it or not.

"Single-payer" describes the mechanism by which healthcare is paid for by a single public authority, not the type of delivery or for whom physicians work, which may be public, private, or a mix of both.

You are missing the point. Almost all physicians in Canada are private. But almost all of them can ONLY get their pay from the government AND only at the rates the government says. So, they maybe private, but the government has a near COMPLETE MONOPOLY of where and how much these doctors can charge/make. There is ZERO competition in this respect.

It's like opening a private bowling alley. But the government tells you what to charge for shoe rentals, cost of bowling, food you sell...EVERYTHING. And you are not allowed to ask for one penny more for ANY service the government mandates. This destroys competition and means the ONLY way to make more money is to work more hours. Innovation gets you nothing.

There are almost no private hospitals in Canada. And the one or two there are are strictly for the wealthy and they are doing so against the Canada Health Act so are technically illegal. But, because of huge shortages of doctors/specialists (and because they cater to the rich), the government looks the other way...to a point.

I think they should let Private insurance compete and in reality Medicare for all would never pass through Congress without several compromises. Private insurance companies sure didn't want to compete against a public option when the ACA was being debated. I for one would be happy if Medicare of all started as a catastrophic policy that allowed private insurance and medicaid to fill in the gaps.

Interesting.

To me it is simple. Offer government healthcare to everyone (like in Canada). But allow any doctor to opt out of the government system and charge whatever they want to for services (which they almost never can in Canadian system).

That way, everyone gets good healthcare. But it allows competition. Plus, with less people using the government system, it frees up tax dollars to be used elsewhere.

I don't hate the Canadian system. I just hate that the Canadian system does not allow almost any competition.

 

[Dana7360]

"Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) on Tuesday defended her support for “Medicare for all,” saying it is not a socialist idea.

"No, no. It’s about providing health care to all people," Harris said"



Kamala Harris is embarrassing herself while proving although she cal lie her ass off about Democrat Health Care BS she is still no Barak Obama...




Harris: 'Medicare for all' is not socialism

.

Single payer isn't socialism. If it was socialism then all the doctors and health care workers would be employed by the government. The government isn't controlling anything. All the government is doing is paying the bills.

I will tell you what is socialism. That wall you people have been demanding.

The government will own it, the government will pay for it, if the Army Corp of Engineers build it like trump is planning, the government will build it. The government will maintain it and will monitor it.

There isn't one single private business involved.

It's 100% socialism.

 

[McRocket]

And to be clear..."socialism" is state ownership of the means of production

Not influence. Not regulation. Not tax breaks

OWNERSHIP

That is incorrect.

'socialism

NOUN
mass noun

• 1A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.'

socialism | Definition of socialism in English by Oxford Dictionaries

The state does NOT have to own something for it to be socialism. It merely has to control it.

And single payer means the government tells the doctors what they can do and exactly how much they can charge. Thus, the government controls the healthcare industry.

That is - by definition - socialism.


BTW - check out the province of Ontario in Canada. 13 million people, 492 hospitals. Only two are private...the rest are owned by the government.
Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

 

[Lesh]

We can talk this to death...but the bottom line is that Republicans

HAVE


NO



PLAN


NOTHING

 

[McRocket]

"Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) on Tuesday defended her support for “Medicare for all,” saying it is not a socialist idea.

"No, no. It’s about providing health care to all people," Harris said"



Kamala Harris is embarrassing herself while proving although she cal lie her ass off about Democrat Health Care BS she is still no Barak Obama...




Harris: 'Medicare for all' is not socialism

.

Single payer isn't socialism. If it was socialism then all the doctors and health care workers would be employed by the government. The government isn't controlling anything. All the government is doing is paying the bills.

I will tell you what is socialism. That wall you people have been demanding.

The government will own it, the government will pay for it, if the Army Corp of Engineers build it like trump is planning, the government will build it. The government will maintain it and will monitor it.

There isn't one single private business involved.

It's 100% socialism.

The government does not have to own it for it to be socialism...just control it...by definition.

Kamala Harris Denies Govt-Run Single Payer is 'Socialism'