Kamala Harris Denies Govt-Run Single Payer is 'Socialism'

[dblack]

Single payer is not even at all similar to socialism.
Single payer is just collective bargaining.

What a perverse conception of "collective bargaining".

 

[RealDave]

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

Sure it. It socializes health insurance, putting it under control of government.

But let's grant you your conceit. Let's say it isn't, according to your definition, "socialism". It doesn't change a single thing about why I don't like it. It's still giving government way too much power. It's still putting Donald Trump in charge of my family's health insurance and that's something I'll fight hard to avoid.

No it is not socialism. No NO NO NO No No No No No No No.

LOL - I hear you already. Like I said. Call it whatever you want. I oppose it for what it is, not the label attached to it.

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

Insurance companies have a goal of profits. Medicare does not.

You are taking how things work in Canada, or should I say the way you think things work oin Canada & assuming they would apply here.

You are also assuming that all medical care would have to go through single payer. There s nothing to say you can 't supplement any single payer with private insurance much as you can do with Medicare.

If you people would quit running in circles, waving your arms about & screaming "OMH OMG OMG"., you might actually discover what single payer is all about.

And please, don;t give me this " I pay cash" bullshit.

 

[g5000]

Is Medicare Socialism?
How about Social Security?

Yes. They are both socialism.

SOCIAL security...

 

[dblack]

If the government is paying your doctor to take care of you, the government can withhold that money and let you die.

If your insurance is paying your doctor to take care of you, your insurance can withhold that money and let you die.

And if you don't like that arrangement, you can opt-out - you can choose to not give the insurance company your money in the first place. You don't have that option when government takes over.

 

[g5000]

Is Medicare Socialism?
How about Social Security?

Nope. All working people PAY for those programs from the day they start working.

Nothing socialist about either one.

You sure are stupid.

Actually, those programs are as socialist as it gets.

 

[g5000]

Harris obviously got an F+ in Math being she cant do the simple math of how much it will cost to give 300 Million people free stuff for life

It is currently costing us $3.5 trillion a year for health care, and it is bankrupting a lot of Americans.

 

[dblack]

Having the government set healthcare rates and administer what amounts to government run health insurance is vastly better than private, because you get to vote for your government.

Seriously? A vote is nowhere near as empowering a the ability to simply say no.

You do not get to vote for any private health insurance practices at all.

You don't need to. You can opt out any time you like.

 

[g5000]

UHC is coming. It will not be stopped, because the Right is lazy.

Health care costs have been skyrocketing for at least 60 years.

In all that time, the Republican party has offered NOTHING in the way of a solution.

And so the Democratic plan of universal health care is inevitable.

The Democrats will win by default. Increment by increment, they are already winning. They will win through the sheer laziness and stupidity of the Right. The Right has totally surrendered on this issue.

Call it socialism, don't call it socialism. Play all the word games you like. It's just a bunch of fucking smoke by the lazy fuckwits so they can pretend they did their best to stop UHC, when in fact they did NOTHING to help solve the problem but whine and make meaningless noises.

 

[dblack]

Insurance companies have a goal of profits. Medicare does not.

Actually, Medicare is farmed out to private insurance companies - often the same ones selling insurance to your employer. They work for profits, and they have exactly the same incentive to deny claims.

Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

 

[Lesh]

Health care costs have been skyrocketing for at least 60 years.

In all that time, the Republican party has offered NOTHING in the way of a solution.

And so the Democratic plan of universal health care is inevitable.

The Democrats will win by default. Increment by increment, they are already winning. They will win through the sheer laziness of the Right. The Right has totally surrendered on this issue.

Call it socialism, don't call it socialism. Play all the word games you like. It's just a bunch of fucking smoke by the lazy fuckwits so they can pretend they did their best to stop UHC, when in fact they did NOTHING to help solve the problem but whine and make meaningless noises.

What keeps getting forgotten is that Obamacare IS the only Republican solution to healthcare ever offered.

It is based on a Heritage Foundation plan from the 90s and Romney's "Romneycare" program from when he was Governor of Mass.

So unless you want ACTUAL universal healthcare...be it Medicare for all or a Medicare buy in or whatever...Obamacare is the only alternative.

Fix it (if that can work) or go full on socialist

 

[g5000]

Instead of getting sucked into the stupid tactic of word games, the Democrats should just hammer and hammer and hammer the point home that the Republicans have offered NOTHING to solve the problem of skyrocketing health care costs.

"Here's our answer, there's their answer. Who do you think actually cares about you? The fuckwits who are doing NOTHING to help you, or us?"

Slam dunk.

 

[dblack]

So unless you want ACTUAL universal healthcare...be it Medicare for all or a Medicare buy in or whatever...Obamacare is the only alternative.

Nope. There are endless alternatives available to us.

 

[g5000]

So unless you want ACTUAL universal healthcare...be it Medicare for all or a Medicare buy in or whatever...Obamacare is the only alternative.

Nope. There are endless alternatives available to us.

Yeah. There is the Republican alternative, which is NOTHING.

And then there is Universal Health Care.

Guess which plan will win.

 

[Eric Cartman]

'socialism
noun
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods'

Definition of SOCIALISM

As Don't Taz Me Bro rightly said...single payer healthcare is THE VERY definition of socialism.

It is clear that progressives generally appear to be in DEEP denial about the actual definition of socialism.

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

The subject is single payer...not medicare.

With Medicare, you have a choice. With Single payer, you do not.

Under Single Payer (like in the UK), every, single doctor is a government employee. So every, single surgery performed is 'owned' by the government as they 'own' the hospital, all the equipment and employee all the nurses, doctors, specialists, staff, paper pushers...everyone. They decide the costs, charges, who pays and when.
And since virtually no other private healthcare is allowed, that means the government has a complete monopoly on almost all medical treatments.

Of course it is socialism.

Jesus Christ. get a fucking education.

Medicare IS single payer.

You are so fucking stupid that you do npo know what single payer is.

LOL...it is you who is clueless on this. And what are you freaking out about? It's just a conversation...get a grip.

'Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare[1] financed by taxes that covers the costs of essential healthcare for all residents, with costs covered by a single public system (hence 'single-payer').'

Single-payer healthcare - Wikipedia


Medicare is optional. No one HAS to be on it...they can opt for private healthcare instead. And it is insurance...not an entire, medical system (which single-payer is).

Single payer means you have NO OPTIONS. You cannot opt for private healthcare because little/none exists.

In Canada, for example, if you need a pacemaker? A heart bypass? A hip replacement? There is only one place to get it...from the government healthcare. It is illegal in Canada (which has single payer) to have these operations from the private sector. Flat out illegal.

THAT is single payer...you have few/no choices.

And that IS socialism...BY DEFINITION.

Whether you like it or not.

"Single-payer" describes the mechanism by which healthcare is paid for by a single public authority, not the type of delivery or for whom physicians work, which may be public, private, or a mix of both.

 

[dblack]

Instead of getting sucked into the stupid tactic of word games, the Democrats should just hammer and hammer and hammer the point home that the Republicans have offered NOTHING to solve the problem of skyrocketing health care costs.

"Here's our answer, there's their answer. Who do you think actually cares about you? The fuckwits who are doing NOTHING to help you, or us?

Slam dunk.

I don't want the government "caring" about me.

 

[dblack]

'socialism
noun
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods'

Definition of SOCIALISM

As Don't Taz Me Bro rightly said...single payer healthcare is THE VERY definition of socialism.

It is clear that progressives generally appear to be in DEEP denial about the actual definition of socialism.

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

The subject is single payer...not medicare.

With Medicare, you have a choice. With Single payer, you do not.

Under Single Payer (like in the UK), every, single doctor is a government employee. So every, single surgery performed is 'owned' by the government as they 'own' the hospital, all the equipment and employee all the nurses, doctors, specialists, staff, paper pushers...everyone. They decide the costs, charges, who pays and when.
And since virtually no other private healthcare is allowed, that means the government has a complete monopoly on almost all medical treatments.

Of course it is socialism.

Jesus Christ. get a fucking education.

Medicare IS single payer.

You are so fucking stupid that you do npo know what single payer is.

LOL...it is you who is clueless on this. And what are you freaking out about? It's just a conversation...get a grip.

'Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare[1] financed by taxes that covers the costs of essential healthcare for all residents, with costs covered by a single public system (hence 'single-payer').'

Single-payer healthcare - Wikipedia


Medicare is optional. No one HAS to be on it...they can opt for private healthcare instead. And it is insurance...not an entire, medical system (which single-payer is).

Single payer means you have NO OPTIONS. You cannot opt for private healthcare because little/none exists.

In Canada, for example, if you need a pacemaker? A heart bypass? A hip replacement? There is only one place to get it...from the government healthcare. It is illegal in Canada (which has single payer) to have these operations from the private sector. Flat out illegal.

THAT is single payer...you have few/no choices.

And that IS socialism...BY DEFINITION.

Whether you like it or not.

"Single-payer" describes the mechanism by which healthcare is paid for by a single public authority, not the type of delivery or for whom physicians work, which may be public, private, or a mix of both.

Ultimately, we work for who pays us. If, for health care, that becomes a single public authority, then health care professional will be working for that single public authority.

 

[Andylusion]

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

I can only say that I hope that you never get really sick, and if you do that you have amassed enormous wealth. I had back surgury last year to the tune of $200k plus. My choices were to have the surgury or live the rest of my like in a wheel chair. This year my wife had eye surgury, Her choice was to have the surgury or no longer be able to drive or do her artwork. I have no idea what that costs. I and most others could not afford that. Your contention that people who think that they need insurance are out of touch with reality is beyond absurd.

I did not imply that people do not need insurance. You missed my point.

My point is that you are not under the control of a CEO.

If the CEO of the insurance company decides he isn't going to cover something that I want covered, I can cancel that insurance, and get other insurance. Which I have done in the past.

Moreover, if all the CEOs on the planet decide to not cover something, I can simply go somewhere that does.

You say it costs $200,000. Let me ask you, how many places did you check prices on?

One of the things that blows my mind, is that in any other aspect of society, we check prices. When I decide to buy a new computer for example, I check a dozen different suppliers. I look for the best price.

Yet when it comes to health care, people are just like "well that's how much they said it would cost".... yeah but how many places did you call up? None.

You drive 2 hours out of Columbus Ohio, and you can find hospitals that will do the exact same surgery for a fraction of the cost. Did you try that where you are?

And lastly....

Let's even pretend that everything you said was right, and it really did cost $200K.

Ok, which is worse.... death, or bankruptcy? I can go back to work, and find ways to be productive, and use that to pay off my debts. What I can't do, is come back from the grave.



This guy had a tumor in his head, and was having siesures every other day, that were getting worse. In Canada they were going to have him wait over 6 months (and that's assuming his appointment wasn't canceled), just to get the MRI to find out what the problem was.

Then after he paid money to come to the US for the MRI, they were going to have him wait 6 months to get the surgery that would save his life (assuming he lived that long). Instead he came back to the US, and paid to have the surgery.

He mortgaged his house, and sold stuff to pay for this life saving surgery.

If he had waited over a year in the Canadian system, there's a good chance he'd be dead.

Bankruptcy is not nearly as big of a problem, as being dead. I'll take a few bills I can't pay, over a death I can't recover from.

You people on the left talk about how greedy the rich are. What you never talk about is your own greed. The greed of not wanting to pay the bill for what you get. Is being greedy really worth risking your life?

 

[g5000]

Instead of getting sucked into the stupid tactic of word games, the Democrats should just hammer and hammer and hammer the point home that the Republicans have offered NOTHING to solve the problem of skyrocketing health care costs.

"Here's our answer, there's their answer. Who do you think actually cares about you? The fuckwits who are doing NOTHING to help you, or us?

Slam dunk.

I don't want the government "caring" about me.

Most people want someone to do something about skyrocketing health care costs. Trump and the Republicans have shown they don't give a flying fuck about doing something about it.

So...slam dunk.

 

[dblack]

Instead of getting sucked into the stupid tactic of word games, the Democrats should just hammer and hammer and hammer the point home that the Republicans have offered NOTHING to solve the problem of skyrocketing health care costs.

"Here's our answer, there's their answer. Who do you think actually cares about you? The fuckwits who are doing NOTHING to help you, or us?

Slam dunk.

I don't want the government "caring" about me.

Most people want someone to do something about skyrocketing health care costs. Trump and the Republicans have shown they don't give a flying fuck about doing something about it.

So...slam dunk.

Yeah. Maybe. The dunking (aka political victory) doesn't interest me as much as deciding the best policy. I agree with you Republicans need to address the issue. But this notion that the government is there to 'care' for us is exactly what gets us into these problems in the first place.

 

[g5000]

If the CEO of the insurance company decides he isn't going to cover something that I want covered, I can cancel that insurance, and get other insurance. Which I have done in the past.

You cannot buy health insurance from any health insurer in the country. The government, particularly the Republicans, have made sure of that.

But you are able to buy from any life, home, or car insurance company you wish. You should be wondering why that is.

When Republicans talk about being able to buy insurance "across state lines", they are being incredibly disingenuous fuckwits. Being able to buy "across state lines" is not the same thing as "buy from any insurance company in America". The Republicans do not want you to be able to do that.

And you should be asking yourself why that is.

It's because they are owned. Bought and paid for.


So...slam dunk. UHC is inevitable.