Kamala Harris Denies Govt-Run Single Payer is 'Socialism'

[Billy000]

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism have a meeting for coffee at noon. Capitalism and Communism arrive on time, but Socialism is nowhere to be found. Finally he arrives, out of breath and apologetic.
"I'm sorry," says Socialism, "I was standing in line for sausage."
Capitalism says - "What's a line?"
Communism says - "What's a sausage?"

God that’s stupid.

 

[JoeB131]

You confuse limited government and state government with Socialism.

Why don't you find a subject you understand and start a thread about it?

Not at all... you clearly didn't understand my point.

Limited government is just paying for the services you use. We can't really do that with health care, police protection, fire protection, education or much of anything else really big.

So we socialize the expense to the people who aren't using them at the time.

So the ONLY question here is do we have government run it or a big corporation that looks at a big pile of money and says, "How do we pay more of that to ourselves? I know, cheat the people who paid it when they get sick!"

 

[JoeB131]

Harris obviously got an F+ in Math being she cant do the simple math of how much it will cost to give 300 Million people free stuff for life

300 million people are paying for that now.

We spend more per capita than any other country in the world... and we don't cover everyone.

 

[MAGAman]

You confuse limited government and state government with Socialism.

Why don't you find a subject you understand and start a thread about it?

Not at all... you clearly didn't understand my point.

Limited government is just paying for the services you use. We can't really do that with health care, police protection, fire protection, education or much of anything else really big.

So we socialize the expense to the people who aren't using them at the time.

So the ONLY question here is do we have government run it or a big corporation that looks at a big pile of money and says, "How do we pay more of that to ourselves? I know, cheat the people who paid it when they get sick!"

No... That's not what limited government is at all.

Limited government is government doing for individual citizens what the individual citizens can't do for themselves.

Roads, military, and some other functions cannot be done by individuals. "Only buying the roads you drive on" doesn't work.

 

[RealDave]

'socialism
noun
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods'

Definition of SOCIALISM

As Don't Taz Me Bro rightly said...single payer healthcare is THE VERY definition of socialism.

It is clear that progressives generally appear to be in DEEP denial about the actual definition of socialism.

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

 

[RealDave]

You confuse limited government and state government with Socialism.

Why don't you find a subject you understand and start a thread about it?

Not at all... you clearly didn't understand my point.

Limited government is just paying for the services you use. We can't really do that with health care, police protection, fire protection, education or much of anything else really big.

So we socialize the expense to the people who aren't using them at the time.

So the ONLY question here is do we have government run it or a big corporation that looks at a big pile of money and says, "How do we pay more of that to ourselves? I know, cheat the people who paid it when they get sick!"

No... That's not what limited government is at all.

Limited government is government doing for individual citizens what the individual citizens can't do for themselves.

Roads, military, and some other functions cannot be done by individuals. "Only buying the roads you drive on" doesn't work.

I built a road. It runs from my house to the street.

 

[RealDave]

I'm sorry but with the prosperity this country is experiencing now...I don't think even some of the precious 'independents' will want to reverse course that quickly for another experiment....a la Obama. This woman and her compadres have no shot in 2020

Record personal debt, record business debt, climbing deficits, record number of people behind on their car payments.

You borrow 1.,5v trillion & pump it into the economy, it can seem to be good.....as long as you ignore the debt.

 

[RealDave]

The big point being made is that governments track record on running things is very dismal, inept, redundant, unproductive, slack, unprofessional, very costly with not much on the return when it comes to products or services. Yes, all one has to do is look at the past problems, and what they led to over time.

Unlike Enron, financial institutions in 2008, Trump's bankruptcies,

 

[RealDave]

So what you're admitting is that Kamala Harris is lying? That she knows that Medicare for all IS socialism but thinks she can trick the American people?

Of course she's lying. The same people that knew Obamacare was a lie and supported the lie will support her lie.

That would be Socialist Democtats.

See my above post you stupid shit.

Did someone hurt your wittle feelwings?

I iust can't stand smart ass stupid people ho thonk they actually know something. You know, like you.

Poor baby....

When you grow up, let me know.

In the mean time, let the adults take care of themselves while you look for the government teet.

Fuck you. This idea you assfucks have that liberals don;t work & just get benefits is getting old. I guess you have never been to the red states

 

[RealDave]

Not really:

so·cial·ism
[ˈsōSHəˌlizəm]
NOUN

1. 
   . The current Medicare system covers more than 40 million Americans. Doctors are free to not accept Medicare but most do. The 20% less that they get from Medicare vs. private insurance in made up for by supplemental insurance in most cases. To some degree you can make the argument that it is privatized insurance but it is not socialized medicine. Health care provider remain independent and health care decisions are between the doctor and patient. The government is far less intrusive than private insurers were allowed to be before Obama care with annual and lifetime caps on coverage and the ability to tell people with pre existing conditions that they just have to go bankrupt to pay for their care or die.

1. 
   Single-payer health care plan isn't socialism | Physicians for a National Health Program

You're proving my point. Owned or "REGULATED" by the community as a whole, which in our system is presented by the Government.

Jeebus. Fish in a Barrel.

I already acknowledged that single pay is, arguably socialized insurance. But, not withstanding the dictionary definition of socialism, it is ludicrous to decry everything that is regulated to any degree as socialism and therefor bad. Are you taking the position that the medical industry should not be regulated and held to government standards?. How about food and drugs ? Are those industries socialized because they are regulated and would we be better off-or worse off if they were not? Do you trust the free market to protect you from those who are motivated by profit? You people need to get over this childish hysteria about socialism and understand that all socialism is not Cuba, the USSR or Venezuela

It's Socialism. You can spin it any way you'd like, but that doesn't change the fact that Single Payer (NATIONALIZED) Healthcare is de facto Socialism.

If it costs less and provides better care

Why do you care?

I care because I'm a free human being, not a serf or slave...and I am wise enough to know that one size fits all health care is actually no size fits anyone.

You really need to get off this site & get informed.

I guess you don't need insurance because you think you will never ever get sick or injured.

You'd fall off the roof & expect others to pay whern you can't afford to p[ay the medical bills.

 

[boedicca]

You're proving my point. Owned or "REGULATED" by the community as a whole, which in our system is presented by the Government.

Jeebus. Fish in a Barrel.

I already acknowledged that single pay is, arguably socialized insurance. But, not withstanding the dictionary definition of socialism, it is ludicrous to decry everything that is regulated to any degree as socialism and therefor bad. Are you taking the position that the medical industry should not be regulated and held to government standards?. How about food and drugs ? Are those industries socialized because they are regulated and would we be better off-or worse off if they were not? Do you trust the free market to protect you from those who are motivated by profit? You people need to get over this childish hysteria about socialism and understand that all socialism is not Cuba, the USSR or Venezuela

It's Socialism. You can spin it any way you'd like, but that doesn't change the fact that Single Payer (NATIONALIZED) Healthcare is de facto Socialism.

If it costs less and provides better care

Why do you care?

I care because I'm a free human being, not a serf or slave...and I am wise enough to know that one size fits all health care is actually no size fits anyone.

You really need to get off this site & get informed.

I guess you don't need insurance because you think you will never ever get sick or injured.

You'd fall off the roof & expect others to pay whern you can't afford to p[ay the medical bills.

Cognitively challenged much? Being a free human being is not mutually exclusive with purchasing insurance.

 

[dblack]

'socialism
noun
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods'

Definition of SOCIALISM

As Don't Taz Me Bro rightly said...single payer healthcare is THE VERY definition of socialism.

It is clear that progressives generally appear to be in DEEP denial about the actual definition of socialism.

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

Sure it. It socializes health insurance, putting it under control of government.

But let's grant you your conceit. Let's say it isn't, according to your definition, "socialism". It doesn't change a single thing about why I don't like it. It's still giving government way too much power. It's still putting Donald Trump in charge of my family's health insurance and that's something I'll fight hard to avoid.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

KH is one dumb bitch...……..

her first name alone will kill her chances, when i hear "Kamala" I think of a huge/fat ugly WWE wrestler from the 80's 90's

I think of a kamalata olive

 

[McRocket]

'socialism
noun
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods'

Definition of SOCIALISM

As Don't Taz Me Bro rightly said...single payer healthcare is THE VERY definition of socialism.

It is clear that progressives generally appear to be in DEEP denial about the actual definition of socialism.

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

The subject is single payer...not medicare.

With Medicare, you have a choice. With Single payer, you do not.

Under Single Payer (like in the UK), every, single doctor is a government employee. So every, single surgery performed is 'owned' by the government as they 'own' the hospital, all the equipment and employee all the nurses, doctors, specialists, staff, paper pushers...everyone. They decide the costs, charges, who pays and when.
And since virtually no other private healthcare is allowed, that means the government has a complete monopoly on almost all medical treatments.

Of course it is socialism.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I already acknowledged that single pay is, arguably socialized insurance. But, not withstanding the dictionary definition of socialism, it is ludicrous to decry everything that is regulated to any degree as socialism and therefor bad. Are you taking the position that the medical industry should not be regulated and held to government standards?. How about food and drugs ? Are those industries socialized because they are regulated and would we be better off-or worse off if they were not? Do you trust the free market to protect you from those who are motivated by profit? You people need to get over this childish hysteria about socialism and understand that all socialism is not Cuba, the USSR or Venezuela

It's Socialism. You can spin it any way you'd like, but that doesn't change the fact that Single Payer (NATIONALIZED) Healthcare is de facto Socialism.

OK fine! It's "socialism' But it's only a word that has many manifestation. Your problem, and that of other here is that you have a ridged, anti-intellectual, black and view of socialism where its' socialism vs. capitalism and can't grasp the fact tat the are many nuances and gradients in between -and that we have had some form of socialism for a long time. You have to get away from the moronic and simplistic idea of "Socialist bad" -Everything else good" mentality

The inevitable manifestation of Socialism is a slave state.

That's the big secret the Progs want to hide from us, but their TDS has caused them to out their real agenda.

The problem is that you folks have a narrow, ridged and dumbed down interpretation of socialism and are woefully ignorant of the policies and programs that have been part of the American economy for more than a century and that helped Make America Great,

The problem with you folks is that you are duped by people who wish to enslave you. Good luck with that.

The problem with you is that you're paranoid and have a warped idea of what freedom is. Too much freedom can itself be enslaving.

 

[RealDave]

'socialism
noun
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods'

Definition of SOCIALISM

As Don't Taz Me Bro rightly said...single payer healthcare is THE VERY definition of socialism.

It is clear that progressives generally appear to be in DEEP denial about the actual definition of socialism.

So, what does the government own? Medicare does not manage patient care, where to getg care, how the care is given. It just pays the bill under a set of rules.

Medicare is NOT socialism.

The subject is single payer...not medicare.

With Medicare, you have a choice. With Single payer, you do not.

Under Single Payer (like in the UK), every, single doctor is a government employee. So every, single surgery performed is 'owned' by the government as they 'own' the hospital, all the equipment and employee all the nurses, doctors, specialists, staff, paper pushers...everyone. They decide the costs, charges, who pays and when.
And since virtually no other private healthcare is allowed, that means the government has a complete monopoly on almost all medical treatments.

Of course it is socialism.

Jesus Christ. get a fucking education.

Medicare IS single payer.

You are so fucking stupid that you do npo know what single payer is.

 

[boedicca]

It's Socialism. You can spin it any way you'd like, but that doesn't change the fact that Single Payer (NATIONALIZED) Healthcare is de facto Socialism.

OK fine! It's "socialism' But it's only a word that has many manifestation. Your problem, and that of other here is that you have a ridged, anti-intellectual, black and view of socialism where its' socialism vs. capitalism and can't grasp the fact tat the are many nuances and gradients in between -and that we have had some form of socialism for a long time. You have to get away from the moronic and simplistic idea of "Socialist bad" -Everything else good" mentality

The inevitable manifestation of Socialism is a slave state.

That's the big secret the Progs want to hide from us, but their TDS has caused them to out their real agenda.

The problem is that you folks have a narrow, ridged and dumbed down interpretation of socialism and are woefully ignorant of the policies and programs that have been part of the American economy for more than a century and that helped Make America Great,

The problem with you folks is that you are duped by people who wish to enslave you. Good luck with that.

The problem with you is that you're paranoid and have a warped idea of what freedom is. Too much freedom can itself be enslaving.

IOW:

War is Peace
Ignorance is Strength
Freedom is Slavery

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It is NOT socialized medicine. Before you call someone dumb, you should understand what socialism is. The doctors, hospitals, labs and whatever will still be private for profit. Even the private insurance companies will continue to thrive because people will need insurance to supplement the Medicare. This just hysteria about socialism and it's stupid

No. It's not Communism (where the government owns everything) but it IS Socialism. Socialism allows for private ownership, but government CONTROLS everything. In single-payer, the government has absolute control via price setting, mandated services, compensation, etc.

Not really:

so·cial·ism
[ˈsōSHəˌlizəm]
NOUN

1. 
   

   [*]a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   synonyms:
   leftism · Fabianism · syndicalism · consumer socialism · utopian socialism · welfarism · communism · Bolshevism · radicalism · militancy · progressivism ·
   leftist· Fabianism · syndicalism · consumer socialism · utopian socialism · welfarism · communism · Bolshevism · radicalism · militancy · progressivism ·
   [more]
   [*](in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

1. 
   . The current Medicare system covers more than 40 million Americans. Doctors are free to not accept Medicare but most do. The 20% less that they get from Medicare vs. private insurance in made up for by supplemental insurance in most cases. To some degree you can make the argument that it is privatized insurance but it is not socialized medicine. Health care provider remain independent and health care decisions are between the doctor and patient. The government is far less intrusive than private insurers were allowed to be before Obama care with annual and lifetime caps on coverage and the ability to tell people with pre existing conditions that they just have to go bankrupt to pay for their care or die.

1. 
   Single-payer health care plan isn't socialism | Physicians for a National Health Program

You're proving my point. Owned or "REGULATED" by the community as a whole, which in our system is presented by the Government.

Jeebus. Fish in a Barrel.

I already acknowledged that single pay is, arguably socialized insurance. But, not withstanding the dictionary definition of socialism, it is ludicrous to decry everything that is regulated to any degree as socialism and therefor bad. Are you taking the position that the medical industry should not be regulated and held to government standards?. How about food and drugs ? Are those industries socialized because they are regulated and would we be better off-or worse off if they were not? Do you trust the free market to protect you from those who are motivated by profit? You people need to get over this childish hysteria about socialism and understand that all socialism is not Cuba, the USSR or Venezuela

The question is whether we want more socialism, or less. That's really all we're talking about. All the hand wringing, about what the true definition of socialism is, misses the point. People don't like socialism because they recognize it as a radical increase in the power and scope of government. You can give it whatever label you want, but if your ideology involves giving government more power, the same people will oppose it.

I think I understand what the Democrats are up against. What they're pitching is, actually, more socialism. Has been for a long time. But they know that voters who grew up during the Cold War have a knee jerk reaction to the term "socialism" - to them anything socialist is bad. That's really frustrating for Democrats who believe that socialism isn't all bad.

I agree with them. Socialism isn't always bad. You can point to countries who employ significantly more socialism than we do, and have really made it work. But you can say the same thing, historically, about monarchy, or theocracy. Some countries in history made theocracy 'work', and arguably work well. Yet most of us agree it's much better to keep religious power and state power separate. Merging the two simply gives government too much power. That's more or less how I see socialism. I believe merging economic power with state power will prove every bit as dangerous as merging the church and state.

Finally, a rational and balanced assessment of the issue. Thank you. I'll take more socialism thank you, if it means that more people will have health care, that the environment and our food supply will be protected, and that civil and human rights are defended.

 

[RealDave]

KH is one dumb bitch...……..

her first name alone will kill her chances, when i hear "Kamala" I think of a huge/fat ugly WWE wrestler from the 80's 90's

I think of a kamalata olive

Trump is a fat ass & you love him.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

"Right wing autocrats and Trumpanzees plan to attack every Democrats character who seeks the office of President, with constant threads attacking their character sans evidence.

Let me guess, you want to go back to the early days when Obama was running and declare the Democratic party candidates' histories don't matter and should be off limits, like Barry's was?

You want anything the Democrats do or say - like supporting AOC's 'Mystical Socialist Global Warming Plan' or rushing to support Smollett's Hate Crime Hoax to be off limits?



Here's a novel idea...why don't you and your fellow snowflake and Democrats agree to stop attacking, insulting, demonizing, and falsely accusing the GOP / Conservatives. Instead try campaigning on actual policies, plans, and WHY their candidates should be elected, not why the GOP shouldn't. I would gladly do the same.


The reason Hillary did not do it, campaign on her own merits, was because she had nothing. She could not even win her own party's nomination, and as for her policies and ideas - they were Obama 2.0.

Pelosi shut down the govt to Hurt Trump's chances in 2020 because she knows none of the clowns running right now can beat Trump by themselves talking up their own merits and ideas.

Destroying the President is the best hope Democrats have at beating him because they can't run on their own merit and do so.

Are there unicorns in your very own reality too?

It is NOT socialized medicine. Before you call someone dumb, you should understand what socialism is. The doctors, hospitals, labs and whatever will still be private for profit. Even the private insurance companies will continue to thrive because people will need insurance to supplement the Medicare. This just hysteria about socialism and it's stupid

then why are the dems forcing it so hard?

Because Medicare for all provides for the common defense, against heart disease, diabetes, cancers, and transmittable diseases; thus it promotes the general welfare.

Because early detection is many times curable, less expensive to treat and cost effective.

Preventative medicine has a cost benefit, to the end user and the community in which they live and when in close quarters on public transportation, on elevators and in movie theaters, restaurants and in office / schools and gun shows.

Unicorns?

You've used that one already? What's the matter - running out of Talking Points?



Maybe you two should get together and reminisce about your college days, smoking pot and listening to Snoop Dog...before he started making records.

The pot smoked in the late 60's and early 70's was not the pot of today, and the tunes when I was an undergrad were belted out by Janice and Grace, classic rock and antiwar lyrics, in the summer of love.

In fact in 1968 the jukebox in the enlisted men's club at 32nd St. in San Diego played two songs over and over: White Rabbit and Sky Pilot.

That was long ago, and never could I have imagined the Summer of 2010, and on going for 8 years we would have winter, springs summers and falls of hate.

Defending the pot smoking liar....good for you.

How much mileage do you boys think you will get out of the "pot smoker" crap when most Americans have tried it and think that it should be legal?