Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[RetiredGySgt]

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So, the plan for getting guns out of the hands of criminals...?

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Get them out of the hands of everyone else.

Simple enough.

Criminals have guns because EVERYONE ELSE has guns.

In countries where they LIMIT who can have a gun- guess what- crooks don't have them.

I mean, this is not really that complicated.

Oh, most gun deaths are NOT criminals shooting people.

Most gun deaths are suicides, accidents and domestic argument over who drank the last can of Milwaukee's Best"

Ya that works in England, South Africa , Russia and Mexico and a host of other Countries. Remind us how restrictive laws prevent criminals from having weapons again?

 

[JoeB131]

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I've sifted through a few pages on this thread and I've seen a lot of deflection and vague insults, some of the traditional name-calling, but I'm not quite sure I've encountered a clear plan.

Is there a plan? And if so, please include how you intend on getting out of the hands of criminals, precisely, thanks.

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1) Complete and thorough background checks.
2) Full liability for gun manufacturers and sellers for crimes committed with their products.
3) Gun buy-backs and stricter licensing.
4) Required insurance for gun ownership.

#2 just as soon as say car manufacturers are held financially responsible for car accidents by all drivers.

#4 is unconstitutional as well, ever hear of a poll tax?

Actually, all car owners are ALREADY required to get insurance in most states. so that isn't even an argument.

Car manufacturers ARE held responsible for accidents caused by bad designs.

I think that when you hold the gun store responsible for selling a shotgun to Aaron Alexis after he failed to pass a test for a rifle or handgun, there really ought to be some responsibility there.

 

[kaz]

I know, you just decline to say what you want. Gun control laws work. When that's said repubs will bring up murders in Australia as PROOF gun laws don't work. Like gun control will prevent it All.

So, explain how gun control laws don't work.

Same strawman, I've never argued eliminating gun laws would prevent all murders, you pulled that out of your ass.

This is the incredibly low bar liberals paint for yourselves. For your own proposals, that you want them to work is sufficient to justify them. For me, you assign that if I'm not going to give you your way, my proposal has to be perfection. It has to work 100% of the time. You've proven nothing but what a vacant intellect you are.

You know its bad when they avoid Even an open ended question: Show me how gun control laws don't work.

They cant, but they are Anti so they have to be Anti- gun control even when they cant explain it

You mean besides the Washington Navy Yard? Newtown, Virginia Tech, the woman who was murdered in the parking lot by her "estranged" husband two miles from my office a few months ago? All of them have in common that the victims followed your gun laws, the murderers didn't.

Ignoring your logic that you get to pass laws and it's our job to prove they don't work, not yours to prove they do, you still haven't answered the basic question. If pot laws don't prevent every high schooler from gett as much pot as they want, how are gun laws gong to prevent criminals from getting a gun or anything else they can use to murder people?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

1) Complete and thorough background checks.
2) Full liability for gun manufacturers and sellers for crimes committed with their products.
3) Gun buy-backs and stricter licensing.
4) Required insurance for gun ownership.

#2 just as soon as say car manufacturers are held financially responsible for car accidents by all drivers.

#4 is unconstitutional as well, ever hear of a poll tax?

Actually, all car owners are ALREADY required to get insurance in most states. so that isn't even an argument.

Car manufacturers ARE held responsible for accidents caused by bad designs.

I think that when you hold the gun store responsible for selling a shotgun to Aaron Alexis after he failed to pass a test for a rifle or handgun, there really ought to be some responsibility there.

Except he did not fail any step of the process. 2 back ground checks were passed and as far as I know no weapon has ever been found to be defective.

 

[kaz]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

It's a misnomer to believe that if gun laws had been non-existent that there would have been shooting back. Likely not in Columbine, Sandyhook, VA Tech, etc...

Stupid pet tricks. No one argued that. The point is that gun laws PREVENT people from defending themselves. Seriously, what is the point in that comment? I have to prove that people would have guns in those cases? Liberals say these pointless, completely illogical things all the time, it's your whole repertoire. I don't get how you think you're the intelligent party. Well, I guess I do since you don't grasp what's being said to you and rationally process it.

As for the question

It's a very long term proposition but the only way to effectively attack the problem is to begin to attack the supply and you do that by decreasing the demand.


Tax the holy crap out of firearms and ammunition. Pass laws making it a requirement that gun owners carry liabiltiy insurance per weapon--very expensive.

Also, make all gun crimes federal crimes and steep minimum sentences for armed robbery. You use a gun, you're going away for 20 years; no parole, no time off for good behavior, soyanara.

Basically make firearms the equivalent of cigarettes.

As stated it's a long-term proposition but the sooner we get started...

Well, that kicks the can to the next generation since you've given an out for your lifetime, oh, we didn't do it long enough. Sort of like the Obama presidency. Five years? Of course I know what I"m doing, it just wasn't long enough.

As for your point "as for the question," you didn't follow that by addressing the question. The question is, if teenagers can get all the pot they want, how are gun laws going to prevent criminals from getting any guns, or anything else they can use to kill people? You didn't actually address the question at all.

 

[JoeB131]

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Ya that works in England, South Africa , Russia and Mexico and a host of other Countries. Remind us how restrictive laws prevent criminals from having weapons again?

It works just fine in the United Kingdom. There were only 38 gun homicides in 2011, and 93 gun suicides. (Compared to 11,101 and 15,953 in the US).

South Africa has about 6 million guns, ranking #17 in gun ownership. So that's probably not a good comparison.

Russia ranks at #9 in privately held guns with 12 million privately owned guns. So again, not a good comparison.

Mexico has a right to bear arms, just like the US does, so not a good comparison.

So I guess if you want to compare us to backwards, third world (or in the case of Russia, Second World) countries, we are doing well.

Compared to other advanced industrial democracies, like the UK, Germany or Japan, not so much.

 

[kaz]

It's already illegal to shoot people. Is one more law going to magically fix this? We'll make it extra-illegal? Maybe we can put people who use guns on Double Secret Probation just to be sure.

See Kaz...Let me just requite what you said

Same strawman, I've never argued eliminating gun laws would prevent all murders, you pulled that out of your ass.
This is the incredibly low bar liberals paint for yourselves. For your own proposals, that you want them to work is sufficient to justify them. For me, you assign that if I'm not going to give you your way, my proposal has to be perfection. It has to work 100% of the time. You've proven nothing but what a vacant intellect you are.

Here's Steven making the same argument. I promise you that I am not Steven and didn't make him say this. Soooo, uhhhh

What the are you talking about? You are making no logical sense at all.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

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Ya that works in England, South Africa , Russia and Mexico and a host of other Countries. Remind us how restrictive laws prevent criminals from having weapons again?

It works just fine in the United Kingdom. There were only 38 gun homicides in 2011, and 93 gun suicides. (Compared to 11,101 and 15,953 in the US).

South Africa has about 6 million guns, ranking #17 in gun ownership. So that's probably not a good comparison.

Russia ranks at #9 in privately held guns with 12 million privately owned guns. So again, not a good comparison.

Mexico has a right to bear arms, just like the US does, so not a good comparison.

So I guess if you want to compare us to backwards, third world (or in the case of Russia, Second World) countries, we are doing well.

Compared to other advanced industrial democracies, like the UK, Germany or Japan, not so much.

Except with the ban on firearms England saw a major increase in homicides and gun violence, further until someone is convicted they do not report a murder as a murder. meaning gang violence is not reported or unsolved cases.

The countries I listed all have bans on guns and fail miserably at stopping gun violence. You can try to justify your excuses anyway you want. the facts are that more guns in law abiding hands means less crime over all. Studies are coming out now proving the point. Compelling evidence to support the claim.

 

[JoeB131]

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I think that when you hold the gun store responsible for selling a shotgun to Aaron Alexis after he failed to pass a test for a rifle or handgun, there really ought to be some responsibility there.

Except he did not fail any step of the process. 2 back ground checks were passed and as far as I know no weapon has ever been found to be defective.

Then the process is inadequate.

It's kind of like saying, "Hey, Airport security was just fine on 9/11, all 19 hijackers got through the checkpoints!"

Um. No. We didn't do that.

We got rid of the Minimum wage rent-a-cops and established a professional TSA.

We put better scanners at the airports.

We put steel doors in the cockpits of airplanes.

Shit, we all have to get our shoes X-rayed because one twit lit his shoes on fire.



If Aaron Alexis, Adam Lanza, Joker Holmes, that Cho guy from VA Tech were able to get guns despite background checks or someone in their families were, then THOSE CHECKS ARE INADEQUATE.

Just like airport security was inadequate before 9/11.

I suppose we should be glad Al Qaeda doesn't have Lobbyists and washed up actors working for them.

 

[JoeB131]

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Except with the ban on firearms England saw a major increase in homicides ....

If you are going to repeat NRA Horseshit, I'm not wasting time on you.

 

[kaz]

Don't know about that; what's your plan to prevent another Sandy Hook? Kevlar school uniforms?

1) Give people the chance to defend themselves.

2) At least stop working to ensure that when people go into do those things they won't face armed opposition. Liberals now are doing a great job ensuring maximum carnage. Stopping doing that wold be a start.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

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Except with the ban on firearms England saw a major increase in homicides ....

If you are going to repeat NRA Horseshit, I'm not wasting time on you.

Good cause you just make shit up anyway.

 

[JoeB131]

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Except with the ban on firearms England saw a major increase in homicides ....

If you are going to repeat NRA Horseshit, I'm not wasting time on you.

Good cause you just make shit up anyway.

No, get my information from non-partisan sources.

This bizarre, "The British are awash in crime and they're hiding it" stupidity is just laughable, the NRA knows your cold-stone stupid and will buy it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Once again for the slow and ohh so stupid. No firearm has been found defective in any shooting. Gun control laws do not prevent criminals from getting guns. As proven in the US and around the world. Studies are now proving that more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens decreases crime and murder.

 

[JoeB131]

Once again for the slow and ohh so stupid. No firearm has been found defective in any shooting. Gun control laws do not prevent criminals from getting guns. As proven in the US and around the world. Studies are now proving that more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens decreases crime and murder.

when countries don't let citizens have guns, the criminals usually don't have them either.

It isn't a matter of defective design, it's a matter of defective marketting.

If Nancy Lanza is your ideal customer, your business plan is pretty fucked up. But then again, so is your sense of morality.

No credible study has shown guns reduce crime. In fact, quite the opposite. The more guns in a society, the more crimes you have.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, yeah, Retarded Gummery Sergeant, I noticed you completely avoided my comparison of background checks to airport security.

I wonder why?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Oh, yeah, Retarded Gummery Sergeant, I noticed you completely avoided my comparison of background checks to airport security.

I wonder why?

How EXACTLY would you change background checks? the failure so far has been that local authorities fail to do their jobs? Not that the system doesn't work.

 

[Wildman]

yaaa liarberals what is your plan, idea or scheme to keep criminals from obtaining guns ? disarm the law abiding citizens and hope the criminals will reform themselves ??

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Oh, yeah, Retarded Gummery Sergeant, I noticed you completely avoided my comparison of background checks to airport security.

I wonder why?

How EXACTLY would you change background checks? the failure so far has been that local authorities fail to do their jobs? Not that the system doesn't work.

Thought so. Gotta go to my doctor appointment maybe when I get back you will have answered.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, yeah, Retarded Gummery Sergeant, I noticed you completely avoided my comparison of background checks to airport security.

I wonder why?

How EXACTLY would you change background checks? the failure so far has been that local authorities fail to do their jobs? Not that the system doesn't work.

1) Require you to list three personal references, just like you would if you applied for a job.

2) Create a national database to record ALL incidents involving guns.

3) Hold gun sellers responsible for the actions committed by their customers.

Here was the thing. When the DC Sniper went on his rampage, his victims sued both the manufacturer and the gun shop. After that, the manufacturer put in a bunch of additional rules to background check people. The DC Sniper had a criminal background and his partner was a minor. Neither one should have been allowed to buy a gun, but they did anyway.

Instead, the NRA went to Congress and got a law passed to immunize gun sellers from lawsuits.