Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[Wry Catcher]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

You won't like any of these possible efforts to reduce innocent deaths by gun violence but here it goes:

1. Require all gun owners to be licensed and insured. Each gun owned by the licensed and insured owner shall be recorded & stored in secure records of the insurance company; only by court order can such records be examined by LE.

Failure to comply with this law shall be punished by a fine of $5,000 and the surrender of all guns owned by the gun owner. A second or subsequent offense shall be punished by one year in the County Jail, a fine of not less than $10,000 and a lifetime revocation of a license to own, possess or have in the custory or control of said person.

2. All unlicensed persons who own, possess or have in his/her custody or control a gun is guilty of a felony and shall be imprisoned in the County Jail for one year and fined not less than $5,000. A second or subsequent conviction shall be punished by five years in a Federal Prison and a fine of not less than $10,000.

3. Any person who sells, gives, loans or in any manner provides a gun to an unlicensed person is guilty of a Felony and shall be imprisoned for not less than one year in a County Jail, Fined $10,000 and have their license to own, possess or have in their custody or control revoked for life.

4. Each person who owns, possess or has in their custody or control has a duty to secure their weapon from lose or theft. Failure to exercise due diligence in this duty makes the owner of said weapon culpable in the event any harm is done to any person. If a trier of fact determines the lose or theft was due to negligence or a conspiracy to provide an unlicensed person to obtain such weapon the penalties in #3 shall apply.

 

[Bern80]

Yes! So you're saying crimes and the punishments that come along with them aren't needed because criminals will commit crimes anyway and nothing will change that.

Thanks for repeating what I said verbatim. Does that only apply to guns or is that across the board for Molesters, Murderers, rapist etc? Or just guns?

KAZZ?!?! Where you at buddy?

Probably lots of things, but it ultimately comes down to the individual. If you're in a state of mind to even contemplate murder or rape your mind is probably in no condition to ponder the ramifications of those actions. You could even go to less agregeous crimes like smoking weed. Though it doesn't matter because violence with guns are what we're concerned with here. Laws are enacted to have punishments for breaking them. Whether it is also a deterent to committing that crime is inversely related to it's severity. That is the more sever the crime the less likely the punishment for committing it is likely to deter someone from committing it.

That's what I said but some people here believe that despite human behavior, they believe people will not care about the punishment no matter how harsh it is because...ummmm...they are criminals derp! And Criminals don't display human behaviors...or something

I still want to know that since crimes don't deter people then why have any laws in the first place? That cant seem to be answered but we all know that punishment deters the crime but they like to play pretend

Asked and answered, but here goes again. You obviously can't punish people for breaking laws that don't exist. Nor did I saw there are no punishments that can act as a deterent to certain laws.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Kaz Buddy! You missed so Much!! Did you go back and read pal?

Still ignoring me I see, you STATED Gun control laws worked, I listed 3 cities and 4 Countries where it does NOT work. You ignored those posts.

No you showed where gun crime still happens. That's all. Crashes still happen but we have traffic lights idiot. Has gun crime been reduced is the question. You ignore it because you have too

Studies clearly show that lesser gun laws more concealed carry and law abiding citizens owning firearms reduces crime not more strict gun laws

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

You won't like any of these possible efforts to reduce innocent deaths by gun violence but here it goes:

1. Require all gun owners to be licensed and insured. Each gun owned by the licensed and insured owner shall be recorded & stored in secure records of the insurance company; only by court order can such records be examined by LE.

Failure to comply with this law shall be punished by a fine of $5,000 and the surrender of all guns owned by the gun owner. A second or subsequent offense shall be punished by one year in the County Jail, a fine of not less than $10,000 and a lifetime revocation of a license to own, possess or have in the custory or control of said person.

2. All unlicensed persons who own, possess or have in his/her custody or control a gun is guilty of a felony and shall be imprisoned in the County Jail for one year and fined not less than $5,000. A second or subsequent conviction shall be punished by five years in a Federal Prison and a fine of not less than $10,000.

3. Any person who sells, gives, loans or in any manner provides a gun to an unlicensed person is guilty of a Felony and shall be imprisoned for not less than one year in a County Jail, Fined $10,000 and have their license to own, possess or have in their custody or control revoked for life.

4. Each person who owns, possess or has in their custody or control has a duty to secure their weapon from lose or theft. Failure to exercise due diligence in this duty makes the owner of said weapon culpable in the event any harm is done to any person. If a trier of fact determines the lose or theft was due to negligence or a conspiracy to provide an unlicensed person to obtain such weapon the penalties in #3 shall apply.

Unconstitutional. Owning a firearm is right protected by the Constitution it can not be infringed, Licensing infringes the right.

 

[kaz]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

You won't like any of these possible efforts to reduce innocent deaths by gun violence but here it goes:

1. Require all gun owners to be licensed and insured. Each gun owned by the licensed and insured owner shall be recorded & stored in secure records of the insurance company; only by court order can such records be examined by LE.

Failure to comply with this law shall be punished by a fine of $5,000 and the surrender of all guns owned by the gun owner. A second or subsequent offense shall be punished by one year in the County Jail, a fine of not less than $10,000 and a lifetime revocation of a license to own, possess or have in the custory or control of said person.

2. All unlicensed persons who own, possess or have in his/her custody or control a gun is guilty of a felony and shall be imprisoned in the County Jail for one year and fined not less than $5,000. A second or subsequent conviction shall be punished by five years in a Federal Prison and a fine of not less than $10,000.

3. Any person who sells, gives, loans or in any manner provides a gun to an unlicensed person is guilty of a Felony and shall be imprisoned for not less than one year in a County Jail, Fined $10,000 and have their license to own, possess or have in their custody or control revoked for life.

4. Each person who owns, possess or has in their custody or control has a duty to secure their weapon from lose or theft. Failure to exercise due diligence in this duty makes the owner of said weapon culpable in the event any harm is done to any person. If a trier of fact determines the lose or theft was due to negligence or a conspiracy to provide an unlicensed person to obtain such weapon the penalties in #3 shall apply.

Those are how we keep honest citizens from having guns and if they do making it hard for them to use them to protect themselves, none of them work on criminals.

Specifically address the point in the op, please. Since any highschool kid can get as much pot as they want, which is expressly illegal. How are you going to prevent criminals from getting guns? You have to explain why your idea will work for guns when it doesn't work for pot.

 

[Steven_R]

So let me get this right...if add just a bunch more requirements for the law abiding and a bunch more bureaucratic hoops to jump through to exercise a specifically mentioned civil right we'll somehow end up with fewer criminals?

Well, shit. I'm convinced.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Still ignoring me I see, you STATED Gun control laws worked, I listed 3 cities and 4 Countries where it does NOT work. You ignored those posts.

No you showed where gun crime still happens. That's all. Crashes still happen but we have traffic lights idiot. Has gun crime been reduced is the question. You ignore it because you have too

Studies clearly show that lesser gun laws more concealed carry and law abiding citizens owning firearms reduces crime not more strict gun laws

Studies....Scrreeeeaacch.....

Link?

 

[kaz]

So let me get this right...if add just a bunch more requirements for the law abiding and a bunch more bureaucratic hoops to jump through to exercise a specifically mentioned civil right we'll somehow end up with fewer criminals?

Well, shit. I'm convinced.

Apparently criminals hate bureaucracy. If they have to file enough forms, they won't commit the crime.

 

[kaz]

No you showed where gun crime still happens. That's all. Crashes still happen but we have traffic lights idiot. Has gun crime been reduced is the question. You ignore it because you have too

Studies clearly show that lesser gun laws more concealed carry and law abiding citizens owning firearms reduces crime not more strict gun laws

Studies....Scrreeeeaacch.....

Link?

I hear ya man, Rachel Madow never told you that, it' can't be true.

Some people like to google things so they inform themselves. I never ask for a link w/o trying to educate myself first. I guess that's why you need government schools to accommodate your intellectual laziness. There are plenty of liberals spinning away the studies, but even they aren't denying them, you can't.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So let me get this right...if add just a bunch more requirements for the law abiding and a bunch more bureaucratic hoops to jump through to exercise a specifically mentioned civil right we'll somehow end up with fewer criminals?

Well, shit. I'm convinced.

That's how it works for voting fraud laws. Somehow you made it seem so silly

 

[Bern80]

If there was a massive tax on the gun that was "stolen" it likey wouldn't have been purchased in the first place...fact.

So no gun stolen; no mass murder in this case.

Doesn't the gun owner have the gun to keep from being robbed/killed? If it doesn't work then maybe he shouldn't have it in the first place.

I disagree; here is why.

We have a constitution that permits the citizens to have guns. For better or worse; that will never change. Nothing says they have to be cheap.

It is what we've done with cigarettes and it's taken a VERY LONG time but fewer and fewer people are smoking due to the stigma and the cost.

Stigmatize gun ownership and make it cost-prohibitive by taxing, making gun owners carry liability insurance per gun, health insurance rates should be much higher for those who live in the house with a gun etc... and you'll see the same thing thath happened to cigarettes happen to guns.

Fewer owners equals fewer guns being sold here which means fewer guns in circulation. It will take a very long time but it will work.

This is probably the argument that bothers me the most and the one that is most irrational out of all of them. There should be no negative stigma attached to gun ownership. I should not be made to feel bad or be financial burdened by taxes because I own guns. I wish people like you would start asking yourselves whether your perceoption of guns is even accurate before you start advocating for measures to get rid of them under some naive auspice that you're doing some great good. The fact is, you're not. What you're proposing is completely immoral. You do not punish the law abiding in a feeble attempt to stop the non-law abiding.

Perception is based on experience. I am aware enough to know where my perception about guns comes from. I grew up in northern, rural Minnesota. Not a very populace area, but there were easily hundreds of guns within a mile of my home growing up. Yet to this day, no one has died or been injured from any of them. No one has ever even been shot at as far as I'm aware. Where I grew up, guns weren't used by gang members to defend their turf or execute people or rob them. They are used for hunting primarily and sport shooting. Last weekend was duck hunting opener. You have never heard such caucophony of gun fire in your life, I promise. Yet no one was killed.

I know you've heard this before, but it isn't sinking in. GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Stop this ridiculous crusade of punishing law abiding individuals like myself with the naive notion that you'll stop criminal behavior. Your comparision to cigarettes is ridiculous. Cigarettes kill exponentially more people than guns. And like them or not, it is not a proper role of government to regulate them.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Studies clearly show that lesser gun laws more concealed carry and law abiding citizens owning firearms reduces crime not more strict gun laws

Studies....Scrreeeeaacch.....

Link?

I hear ya man, Rachel Madow never told you that, it' can't be true.

Some people like to google things so they inform themselves. I never ask for a link w/o trying to educate myself first. I guess that's why you need government schools to accommodate your intellectual laziness. There are plenty of liberals spinning away the studies, but even they aren't denying them, you can't.

There you are!

Hey Closed Caption you said this 3 pages ago and no one has answered yet. This is you from the future. You were right!

I answered that already.

Cho, Loughner, Joker and Alexis all passed federal firearm background checks to buy firearms.

Lanza and Hill stole the guns they used.

Gun control failure all around.

So KAZ...

Do you see how any error is seen as the entire law not working? Its like saying laws against killing someone does not work because someone killed someone. MURDER LAW FAILURE ALL AROUND.

What happened to Kaz?

Apology accepted.

 

[martybegan]

So let me get this right...if add just a bunch more requirements for the law abiding and a bunch more bureaucratic hoops to jump through to exercise a specifically mentioned civil right we'll somehow end up with fewer criminals?

Well, shit. I'm convinced.

That's how it works for voting fraud laws. Somehow you made it seem so silly

If all I had to do in NYC was show my Driver's Licsense to get a gun, I'd be happier then a pig in shit. I'd even have no problem doing the same thing to vote!

Fine, Ill agree to that. Where can I sign up?

 

[kaz]

So let me get this right...if add just a bunch more requirements for the law abiding and a bunch more bureaucratic hoops to jump through to exercise a specifically mentioned civil right we'll somehow end up with fewer criminals?

Well, shit. I'm convinced.

That's how it works for voting fraud laws. Somehow you made it seem so silly

Ignoring the idiocy of your analogy because you can't buy "voting" on the black market and your belief that having an ID are "bureaucratic hoops to jump though," you oppose those requirements and the point was to you. So you didn't logically contradict the point.

You're lost when you don't have a handy Ed Schultz quote, aren't you ClosedMinded?

 

[Bern80]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

You won't like any of these possible efforts to reduce innocent deaths by gun violence but here it goes:

1. Require all gun owners to be licensed and insured. Each gun owned by the licensed and insured owner shall be recorded & stored in secure records of the insurance company; only by court order can such records be examined by LE.

Failure to comply with this law shall be punished by a fine of $5,000 and the surrender of all guns owned by the gun owner. A second or subsequent offense shall be punished by one year in the County Jail, a fine of not less than $10,000 and a lifetime revocation of a license to own, possess or have in the custory or control of said person.

2. All unlicensed persons who own, possess or have in his/her custody or control a gun is guilty of a felony and shall be imprisoned in the County Jail for one year and fined not less than $5,000. A second or subsequent conviction shall be punished by five years in a Federal Prison and a fine of not less than $10,000.

3. Any person who sells, gives, loans or in any manner provides a gun to an unlicensed person is guilty of a Felony and shall be imprisoned for not less than one year in a County Jail, Fined $10,000 and have their license to own, possess or have in their custody or control revoked for life.

4. Each person who owns, possess or has in their custody or control has a duty to secure their weapon from lose or theft. Failure to exercise due diligence in this duty makes the owner of said weapon culpable in the event any harm is done to any person. If a trier of fact determines the lose or theft was due to negligence or a conspiracy to provide an unlicensed person to obtain such weapon the penalties in #3 shall apply.

It is amazing how goofy the priorties of the left are. You say you want to end needless death, yet you go to the bottom of the list of things that cause death. I imagine it has more to do with the fact that it's the least inconvenient for you being a non gun owner. I doubt you would be willing to apply these same rules to something like cars. Another inanimate object that is involved in far more injury and death than guns.

 

[kaz]

So let me get this right...if add just a bunch more requirements for the law abiding and a bunch more bureaucratic hoops to jump through to exercise a specifically mentioned civil right we'll somehow end up with fewer criminals?

Well, shit. I'm convinced.

That's how it works for voting fraud laws. Somehow you made it seem so silly

If all I had to do in NYC was show my Driver's Licsense to get a gun, I'd be happier then a pig in shit. I'd even have no problem doing the same thing to vote!

Fine, Ill agree to that. Where can I sign up?

Ouch, you just bitch slapped ClosedCaption so hard it made me shudder...

I'll second your motion though, that sounds like a deal.

 

[kaz]

Studies....Scrreeeeaacch.....

Link?

I hear ya man, Rachel Madow never told you that, it' can't be true.

Some people like to google things so they inform themselves. I never ask for a link w/o trying to educate myself first. I guess that's why you need government schools to accommodate your intellectual laziness. There are plenty of liberals spinning away the studies, but even they aren't denying them, you can't.

There you are!

I answered that already.

Cho, Loughner, Joker and Alexis all passed federal firearm background checks to buy firearms.

Lanza and Hill stole the guns they used.

Gun control failure all around.

So KAZ...

Do you see how any error is seen as the entire law not working? Its like saying laws against killing someone does not work because someone killed someone. MURDER LAW FAILURE ALL AROUND.

What happened to Kaz?

Apology accepted.

This makes no sense and doesn't contradict anything I've said. I said our gun laws don't work and they can't work, and you come back with oh yeah, well they didn't work! Bam, eat that kaz. Um...OK.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So let me get this right...if add just a bunch more requirements for the law abiding and a bunch more bureaucratic hoops to jump through to exercise a specifically mentioned civil right we'll somehow end up with fewer criminals?

Well, shit. I'm convinced.

That's how it works for voting fraud laws. Somehow you made it seem so silly

Ignoring the idiocy of your analogy because you can't buy "voting" on the black market and your belief that having an ID are "bureaucratic hoops to jump though," you oppose those requirements and the point was to you. So you didn't logically contradict the point.

You're lost when you don't have a handy Ed Schultz quote, aren't you ClosedMinded?

God dude, You cant pull a trigger on a vote either. Are we really going to go into all the differences like no voting firing pin too or are you trying to be clever

Kaz: I've never seen someone shot by a vote derp! Look I'm intelligent!

 

[kaz]

That's how it works for voting fraud laws. Somehow you made it seem so silly

Ignoring the idiocy of your analogy because you can't buy "voting" on the black market and your belief that having an ID are "bureaucratic hoops to jump though," you oppose those requirements and the point was to you. So you didn't logically contradict the point.

You're lost when you don't have a handy Ed Schultz quote, aren't you ClosedMinded?

God dude, You cant pull a trigger on a vote either. Are we really going to go into all the differences like no voting firing pin too or are you trying to be clever

Kaz: I've never seen someone shot by a vote derp! Look I'm intelligent!

Actually voters are a lot more dangerous. That's how the people who prevented the Washington Navy Yard shooter from facing armed opposition got their way. You also gave us Obamacare, you are spending us into the ground, you are stifling our business with regulation and killing the economy.

Bad voters are not only a lot more dangerous than people with guns, but there are a whole lot more of you...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No you showed where gun crime still happens. That's all. Crashes still happen but we have traffic lights idiot. Has gun crime been reduced is the question. You ignore it because you have too

Studies clearly show that lesser gun laws more concealed carry and law abiding citizens owning firearms reduces crime not more strict gun laws

Studies....Scrreeeeaacch.....

Link?

Harvard Study: No Correlation Between Gun Control and Less Violent Crime

More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CDC Study Ordered by Obama Contradicts White House Anti-gun Narrative

How about that?