Knowing vs believing

[Delta4Embassy]

All the talk about whether or not Yeshua, Moshe, and others actually existed or not is moot. We can't even prove we ourselves exist right this very moment nevermind anyone else. Every 'proof' a person might use to prove they exist depends on their own personal interpretation of an outside-the-body stimulus. But every stimulus coming in that we can perceive is merely an interpretation being made by our brains. Everything we feel, hear, taste, smell, and see is just our brain interpreting outside stimuli for us. And since we all know brains can malfunction ala mental illness, and that experience is subjective, how can we really know anything? We could all be in a bed somewhere with our skull case opened up and some machine's stimulating our brains making us perceive things ala The Matrix. And we'd not be able to know whether that's the case or not since all exerpiences are the same - they're the result of the brain interpreting. Whether a metal probe, or "real" experience, it functions the same way.

So if we can't even prove we exist, what's the point of trying to prove anyone else exists, or existed?

I believe I exist. But I don't know for sure.

 

[PratchettFan]

All the talk about whether or not Yeshua, Moshe, and others actually existed or not is moot. We can't even prove we ourselves exist right this very moment nevermind anyone else. Every 'proof' a person might use to prove they exist depends on their own personal interpretation of an outside-the-body stimulus. But every stimulus coming in that we can perceive is merely an interpretation being made by our brains. Everything we feel, hear, taste, smell, and see is just our brain interpreting outside stimuli for us. And since we all know brains can malfunction ala mental illness, and that experience is subjective, how can we really know anything? We could all be in a bed somewhere with our skull case opened up and some machine's stimulating our brains making us perceive things ala The Matrix. And we'd not be able to know whether that's the case or not since all exerpiences are the same - they're the result of the brain interpreting. Whether a metal probe, or "real" experience, it functions the same way.

So if we can't even prove we exist, what's the point of trying to prove anyone else exists, or existed?

I believe I exist. But I don't know for sure.

You can take it to that point. However, I think for practical purposes you have to accept that your perceptions are not lying to you. Otherwise, you're just stuck sitting in a chair fearing to move because there might actually be a cliff in front of you rather than your living room rug.

So bringing this back to a more workable standard, there is a huge difference between knowing the coffee mug sitting on my desk exists and knowing God exists. I can see and feel the mug. I can show it to other people and have them confirm it exists. The same cannot be said for God.

That being said, I personally consider God to be irrelevant.

 

[Unkotare]

All the talk about whether or not Yeshua, Moshe, and others actually existed or not is moot. We can't even prove we ourselves exist right this very moment nevermind anyone else. Every 'proof' a person might use to prove they exist depends on their own personal interpretation of an outside-the-body stimulus. But every stimulus coming in that we can perceive is merely an interpretation being made by our brains. Everything we feel, hear, taste, smell, and see is just our brain interpreting outside stimuli for us. And since we all know brains can malfunction ala mental illness, and that experience is subjective, how can we really know anything? We could all be in a bed somewhere with our skull case opened up and some machine's stimulating our brains making us perceive things ala The Matrix. And we'd not be able to know whether that's the case or not since all exerpiences are the same - they're the result of the brain interpreting. Whether a metal probe, or "real" experience, it functions the same way.

So if we can't even prove we exist, what's the point of trying to prove anyone else exists, or existed?

I believe I exist. But I don't know for sure.

That's how you know for sure. You are more than 300 years behind.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

You can take it to that point. However, I think for practical purposes you have to accept that your perceptions are not lying to you. Otherwise, you're just stuck sitting in a chair fearing to move because there might actually be a cliff in front of you rather than your living room rug.

So bringing this back to a more workable standard, there is a huge difference between knowing the coffee mug sitting on my desk exists and knowing God exists. I can see and feel the mug. I can show it to other people and have them confirm it exists. The same cannot be said for God.

That being said, I personally consider God to be irrelevant.

You don't actually feel the mug in your hand. Atoms which make up the mug and your hand never come into physical contact with each other, empirically there is no physicality to anything, every 'solid' thing is just empty space no matter how much you 'zoom' in with a microscope, what you in fact feel is merely the idea of what feeling the mug is supposed to be like. Matter doesn't pass through matter due to repelling forces, not atoms bumping into each other. And what you see is even more iffy. We only see a fraction of visible light wavelengths. What comes into our eyes when we see something is much more than we end up actually perceiving.

When you show a mug to another the reason they see a mug is the very same reason you do. You've both been taught what a mug is, what it looks like, feels like, etc. You have ideas about mugs and match up those atributes to the object you recognize as 'a mug.'

Ever bit of matter is in actuality empty space. If we could put something under an infinitely powerful microscope, no matter how far in you zoomed you'd see anucleus surrounded by empty space. Zoom in on the nucleus and you see another nucleaus also surrounded by empty space on down to infinity. Physics puts a halt on this fact with the Planck Length, but you can always take some fraction of a whole away and go smaller infinitely.

What we perceive as solid therefore isn't really so much as repelling forces. Nothing actually touches anything else though. Hence a related fact that at the atomic level, where the atoms which make up our bodies 'touch' the ground is in fact zero distance thus everything touches everything else in as much as the replling forces do. So I'm 'connected' to the ground, the ground to you, and we're thus connected to each other, on through the atmosphere, space, and the rest of the universe. Everything is really just one thing. Where one atom ends, another begins on out to the whole universe.

If a God exists, it's this whole single thing we call the universe. Not some autonomous discrete thing. Because we're all the same single thing.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

That's how you know for sure. You are more than 300 years behind.

Beliefs aren't reality. They're just opinions.

 

[Unkotare]

That's how you know for sure. You are more than 300 years behind.

Beliefs aren't reality. They're just opinions.

Whose opinion?

 

[PratchettFan]

You can take it to that point. However, I think for practical purposes you have to accept that your perceptions are not lying to you. Otherwise, you're just stuck sitting in a chair fearing to move because there might actually be a cliff in front of you rather than your living room rug.

So bringing this back to a more workable standard, there is a huge difference between knowing the coffee mug sitting on my desk exists and knowing God exists. I can see and feel the mug. I can show it to other people and have them confirm it exists. The same cannot be said for God.

That being said, I personally consider God to be irrelevant.

You don't actually feel the mug in your hand. Atoms which make up the mug and your hand never come into physical contact with each other, empirically there is no physicality to anything, every 'solid' thing is just empty space no matter how much you 'zoom' in with a microscope, what you in fact feel is merely the idea of what feeling the mug is supposed to be like. Matter doesn't pass through matter due to repelling forces, not atoms bumping into each other. And what you see is even more iffy. We only see a fraction of visible light wavelengths. What comes into our eyes when we see something is much more than we end up actually perceiving.

When you show a mug to another the reason they see a mug is the very same reason you do. You've both been taught what a mug is, what it looks like, feels like, etc. You have ideas about mugs and match up those atributes to the object you recognize as 'a mug.'

Ever bit of matter is in actuality empty space. If we could put something under an infinitely powerful microscope, no matter how far in you zoomed you'd see anucleus surrounded by empty space. Zoom in on the nucleus and you see another nucleaus also surrounded by empty space on down to infinity. Physics puts a halt on this fact with the Planck Length, but you can always take some fraction of a whole away and go smaller infinitely.

What we perceive as solid therefore isn't really so much as repelling forces. Nothing actually touches anything else though. Hence a related fact that at the atomic level, where the atoms which make up our bodies 'touch' the ground is in fact zero distance thus everything touches everything else in as much as the replling forces do. So I'm 'connected' to the ground, the ground to you, and we're thus connected to each other, on through the atmosphere, space, and the rest of the universe. Everything is really just one thing. Where one atom ends, another begins on out to the whole universe.

If a God exists, it's this whole single thing we call the universe. Not some autonomous discrete thing. Because we're all the same single thing.

Again, you can take it to that extreme if you like but it changes nothing. It just makes discussion impossible.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Again, you can take it to that extreme if you like but it changes nothing. It just makes discussion impossible.

Reality isn't extreme, just inconvenient.

 

[Unkotare]

That's how you know for sure. You are more than 300 years behind.

Beliefs aren't reality. They're just opinions.

I said, whose opinion?

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

I believe I exist, and I know that God exists, for He has carried me, and smacked me far to many times, for me not to know this.

 

[hotpotato]

I believe I exist, and I know that God exists, for He has carried me, and smacked me far to many times, for me not to know this.

Well if you only believe the YOU exist, then yes, somebody has certainly smacked you, whether that is an invisible sky fairy or some overbearing religious prompter your choice. If you are brave it only hurts for a while!

 

[Blackrook]

I once took a philosophy class that explored the question of whether we all really exist, and whether we can trust our senses, and I told the professor I thought the entire class was a waste of time.

 

[Unkotare]

I once took a philosophy class that explored the question of whether we all really exist, and whether we can trust our senses, and I told the professor I thought the entire class was a waste of time.

Did he laugh at your joke?

 

[Moonglow]

I stink, therefore I am....What other proof do you need?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I once took a philosophy class that explored the question of whether we all really exist, and whether we can trust our senses, and I told the professor I thought the entire class was a waste of time.

Notice you decry many things a waste of time. And yet, here you are wasting time.

 

[PratchettFan]

I stink, therefore I am....What other proof do you need?

Poteo ergo sum. Mr. R. would be proud.

 

[Moonglow]

I stink, therefore I am....What other proof do you need?

Poteo ergo sum. Mr. R. would be proud.

I've been keeping that one since logic class at OU in 1984...

 

[onecut39]

All the talk about whether or not Yeshua, Moshe, and others actually existed or not is moot. We can't even prove we ourselves exist right this very moment nevermind anyone else. Every 'proof' a person might use to prove they exist depends on their own personal interpretation of an outside-the-body stimulus. But every stimulus coming in that we can perceive is merely an interpretation being made by our brains. Everything we feel, hear, taste, smell, and see is just our brain interpreting outside stimuli for us. And since we all know brains can malfunction ala mental illness, and that experience is subjective, how can we really know anything? We could all be in a bed somewhere with our skull case opened up and some machine's stimulating our brains making us perceive things ala The Matrix. And we'd not be able to know whether that's the case or not since all exerpiences are the same - they're the result of the brain interpreting. Whether a metal probe, or "real" experience, it functions the same way.

So if we can't even prove we exist, what's the point of trying to prove anyone else exists, or existed?

I believe I exist. But I don't know for sure.

That is the second dumbest argument I have ever heard.

 

[Dajjal]

I have had experiences that tell me among other things telepathy exists. I have also had some very evidential messages from the spirit world through a number of different spiritualist mediums. Logic applied to my experiences tell me there probably is a spiritual reality, and the spirit world say there is a God.

I am pretty sure I exist, but I am also sure that everything we experience is an illusion. To the extent I know that pain is just electrical signals traveling up the nerves to the brain. I believe it is possible to ignore pain and to that end I had a filling in a tooth once without having anaesthetic. But only did it once, because I found the pain very convincing. I am now happy to have anaesthetic.

 

[BreezeWood]

I have had experiences that tell me among other things telepathy exists. I have also had some very evidential messages from the spirit world through a number of different spiritualist mediums. Logic applied to my experiences tell me there probably is a spiritual reality, and the spirit world say there is a God.

I am pretty sure I exist, but I am also sure that everything we experience is an illusion. To the extent I know that pain is just electrical signals traveling up the nerves to the brain. I believe it is possible to ignore pain and to that end I had a filling in a tooth once without having anaesthetic. But only did it once, because I found the pain very convincing. I am now happy to have anaesthetic.

I have had experiences that tell me among other things telepathy exists.


what is physiology - do you control your heart beat, per beat ?

what's running the show while you are being telepathic ?

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