Ladies.... It's not how you look it's how you feel about it.

[R.D.]

Making money used to have a caveot in this country.

Providing an honest service or product.

How I wish that was still part of the moral package we Americans lived by.

There is no honor and nothing moral about walking around drab and dull.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Making money used to have a caveot in this country.

Providing an honest service or product.

How I wish that was still part of the moral package we Americans lived by.

link please
caveot (?)

I think she means "caveat", and the one I'M most familiar with is "caveat emptor".

 

[MaggieMae]

Ok, I will not claim to be ANY form of expert on relationships, clothing, fashion, or women in general but this is something I need to get off my chest before I explode. Mostly because it's something I've run into three or four times in my personal life over the last couple of weeks and I can't believe that it isn't obvious to everyone....

Why is it that so many women cannot comprehend that their level of "attractiveness" is generally nowhere near as much about WHAT they are wearing as HOW you feel about what you are wearing?!?!?! I believe it was once said that a truly beautiful woman could make a burlap sack with arm and neck holes look GOOD. I know that a lot of women nowadays would probably disagree with that.

With the advent of clothing and undergarments designed to enhance this, reduce that, show off something else we seem to have reached a point where women feel that they have to look a very specific way in order to feel "attractive"; when in reality the truth is that it is the confidence that a woman has in her appearance that makes her truly beautiful regardless of what cup size her bra might be, or what size jeans she's wearing.

My frustration on this issue comes mostly from a pair of conversations I had at the gym I go to yesterday....

The first was with a lady who just turned 31. I've attended a couple of group classes with her, so we know each other a little bit. She got on the elyptical machine next to me and put a fashion magazine on the rack in front of her, without opening it. After a couple of minutes I asked her if she was going to read the magazine or if she was trying to absorb the articles through osmosis. She laughed and told me that she was trying to use the photo of the actress/model in a bikini on the cover as a means of motivation. "I'm hoping to look like that by the time my vacation comes around in August" Lynn informed me. When I looked over at the cover, I told Lynn that so far as I was concerned she already looked BETTER than the woman in the bikini. She laughed and told me I must be blind because the model was obviously much thinner than she is. I reminded her that while the model might be thinner she also had no hips or chest and looked almost boyish; which I at least personally don't find to be terribly good looking; while she has very nice curves, which I find to be much more feminine and attractive. She smiled that "You're a guy, you wouldn't understand what I'm talking about." smile and we both went back to our workouts.

The second happened while I was waiting for my post-workout Orange Creame smoothie with protein that is part of my end of workout routine. Sitting there at the smoothie bar was Alicia, another very attractive young woman who I know from several group classes. She was commenting to one of the female staff members that her twin sister Erica (who is engaged to one of the staff members) gets all the looks from the guys at the gym but nobody really seems to pay any attention to her. Even when they wear essentially identical outfits to workout. I quietly and politely mentioned that if she was really interested I could explain to her why that was. Of course they both wanted to know what I felt the reason was. "When Erica wears something she doesn't care who is looking at her butt, her hips, her chest, etc... She has the confidence that she looks good in it and goes with it. You on the other hand always seem to be trying to hide something. Almost like you're embarassed of what you're wearing or how your body looks. You're both incredibly attractive young women, but Erica's confidence just makes all the difference in how guys see the two of you." Of course I immediately got told that I had no idea what I was talking about.

This is something I've gone through with my roommate and several former girlfriends as well. Is it really that tough of a concept to get..... When you feel happy and confident about what you look like, you end up being a lot more attractive to other people as well. That's why a lot of makeup on a woman turns most guys off... we wonder what it is you're hiding underneath it. It's also why a pair of jeans and a nice blouse can be 100X sexier on a woman who OWNS that look than a miniskirt and corset-top is on a woman who is not confident about what she's wearing.

Ok. I feel better now. [/rant]

Okay, which one are you? Stacy or Clinton?

 

[dilloduck]

Making money used to have a caveot in this country.

Providing an honest service or product.

How I wish that was still part of the moral package we Americans lived by.

link please
caveot (?)

I think she means "caveat", and the one I'M most familiar with is "caveat emptor".

People have been selling snake oil in one form or another since the beginning of time.
I would like to see evidence of some time in America that only things that were absolutely necessary were offered as a product or a service.

 

[Anachronism]

You're right.

I have to wonder who that chick Lynn is trying to look good for, if she's thinking, "Men just don't understand what I'm talking about." Apparently NOT for men. Someone's sure to say, "For herself", but whose standard is deciding what looks good to HER? Again, apparently not heterosexual men. In my experience, THEY definitely are more attracted to confidence and comfort with one's own body, and I can tell you why: because a woman, no matter how beautiful she is, who is clearly uncomfortable and lacking in confidence, is going to drive them NUTS complaining about her "flaws" and constantly looking for validation and reassurance. A woman who might sag a bit here and there but shrugs and says, "Gravity sucks", then moves on with her life, is going to be a lot more fun to be around in the long run.

You're absolutely RIGHT, Cecilie. As I said in the OP, it's about being comfortable and confident in who you are, and what you wear rather than trying to be and look like something that you're not.

That lack of confidence is much more evident, even to men, than many women think it is. A woman in a mini-skirt is not attractive if she's constantly "adjusting" its hem because she's not comfortable with how much it's showing off. She'd be much better off with a skirt 2" longer that she's confident wearing, even if it's longer than is currently "in style".

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're right.

I have to wonder who that chick Lynn is trying to look good for, if she's thinking, "Men just don't understand what I'm talking about." Apparently NOT for men. Someone's sure to say, "For herself", but whose standard is deciding what looks good to HER? Again, apparently not heterosexual men. In my experience, THEY definitely are more attracted to confidence and comfort with one's own body, and I can tell you why: because a woman, no matter how beautiful she is, who is clearly uncomfortable and lacking in confidence, is going to drive them NUTS complaining about her "flaws" and constantly looking for validation and reassurance. A woman who might sag a bit here and there but shrugs and says, "Gravity sucks", then moves on with her life, is going to be a lot more fun to be around in the long run.

You're absolutely RIGHT, Cecilie. As I said in the OP, it's about being comfortable and confident in who you are, and what you wear rather than trying to be and look like something that you're not.

That lack of confidence is much more evident, even to men, than many women think it is. A woman in a mini-skirt is not attractive if she's constantly "adjusting" its hem because she's not comfortable with how much it's showing off. She'd be much better off with a skirt 2" longer that she's confident wearing, even if it's longer than is currently "in style".

I can't stand wearing an outfit I have to keep adjusting. It's like being covered in ants, just this constant, annoying itch. And I like to be able to DO stuff, not just sit around looking decorative like a store mannequin. If the outfit I'm contemplating wearing to my favorite karaoke bar doesn't allow me to bend over the pool table to make my shot without flashing my goodies to the whole room, I'm not wearing it.

 

[Anguille]

You're right.

I have to wonder who that chick Lynn is trying to look good for, if she's thinking, "Men just don't understand what I'm talking about." Apparently NOT for men. Someone's sure to say, "For herself", but whose standard is deciding what looks good to HER? Again, apparently not heterosexual men. In my experience, THEY definitely are more attracted to confidence and comfort with one's own body, and I can tell you why: because a woman, no matter how beautiful she is, who is clearly uncomfortable and lacking in confidence, is going to drive them NUTS complaining about her "flaws" and constantly looking for validation and reassurance. A woman who might sag a bit here and there but shrugs and says, "Gravity sucks", then moves on with her life, is going to be a lot more fun to be around in the long run.

You're absolutely RIGHT, Cecilie. As I said in the OP, it's about being comfortable and confident in who you are, and what you wear rather than trying to be and look like something that you're not.

That lack of confidence is much more evident, even to men, than many women think it is. A woman in a mini-skirt is not attractive if she's constantly "adjusting" its hem because she's not comfortable with how much it's showing off. She'd be much better off with a skirt 2" longer that she's confident wearing, even if it's longer than is currently "in style".

I've never understood why women wear high heels. Sure, when you're standing still, fuck me shoes make your legs look longer and shapelier. But once you start walking the pain they cause is usually evident in the ungraceful way a woman moves.

The Chinese used to think bound feet were sexy too.

 

[Anachronism]

I can't stand wearing an outfit I have to keep adjusting. It's like being covered in ants, just this constant, annoying itch. And I like to be able to DO stuff, not just sit around looking decorative like a store mannequin. If the outfit I'm contemplating wearing to my favorite karaoke bar doesn't allow me to bend over the pool table to make my shot without flashing my goodies to the whole room, I'm not wearing it.

Yep. Very true.

It would seem that a lot of younger women these days do not quite understand that you can look attractive and sexy without having to have a ton of skin exposed to the world. A nice pair of tight jeans will often get you a lot further than a short skirt that you're obviously not comfortable wearing.

 

[Anguille]

I can't stand wearing an outfit I have to keep adjusting. It's like being covered in ants, just this constant, annoying itch. And I like to be able to DO stuff, not just sit around looking decorative like a store mannequin. If the outfit I'm contemplating wearing to my favorite karaoke bar doesn't allow me to bend over the pool table to make my shot without flashing my goodies to the whole room, I'm not wearing it.

Yep. Very true.

It would seem that a lot of younger women these days do not quite understand that you can look attractive and sexy without having to have a ton of skin exposed to the world. A nice pair of tight jeans will often get you a lot further than a short skirt that you're obviously not comfortable wearing.

Tight jeans aren't all that comfy either.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I can't stand wearing an outfit I have to keep adjusting. It's like being covered in ants, just this constant, annoying itch. And I like to be able to DO stuff, not just sit around looking decorative like a store mannequin. If the outfit I'm contemplating wearing to my favorite karaoke bar doesn't allow me to bend over the pool table to make my shot without flashing my goodies to the whole room, I'm not wearing it.

Yep. Very true.

It would seem that a lot of younger women these days do not quite understand that you can look attractive and sexy without having to have a ton of skin exposed to the world. A nice pair of tight jeans will often get you a lot further than a short skirt that you're obviously not comfortable wearing.

I love wearing skirts, but I really prefer the soft, floaty type to tight, short ones. As I keep pointing out, the operative phrase is "ease of access". Also, it gets hotter than hell here from late spring through mid-fall, and light fabrics with lots of air flow are VERY useful. And I INSIST on comfortable shoes, because nothing looks less attractive to me than a woman wearing hooker shoes who looks like she's tottering on stilts and about to break her ankle. Go with something a bit shorter-heeled that lets you walk gracefully, for God's sake.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I can't stand wearing an outfit I have to keep adjusting. It's like being covered in ants, just this constant, annoying itch. And I like to be able to DO stuff, not just sit around looking decorative like a store mannequin. If the outfit I'm contemplating wearing to my favorite karaoke bar doesn't allow me to bend over the pool table to make my shot without flashing my goodies to the whole room, I'm not wearing it.

Yep. Very true.

It would seem that a lot of younger women these days do not quite understand that you can look attractive and sexy without having to have a ton of skin exposed to the world. A nice pair of tight jeans will often get you a lot further than a short skirt that you're obviously not comfortable wearing.

Tight jeans aren't all that comfy either.

Depends on the jeans. These days, in order to get that figure-hugging look, a lot of jeans incorporate a certain amount of stretchiness into the fabric, so while it looks like painted-on denim, it feels a bit closer to workout leggings.

Most of my jeans are made that way because I hate the feel of the button digging in my stomach if I happen to move or stretch the wrong direction.

 

[Anachronism]

I've never understood why women wear high heels. Sure, when you're standing still, fuck me shoes make your legs look longer and shapelier. But once you start walking the pain they cause is usually evident in the ungraceful way a woman moves.

The Chinese used to think bound feet were sexy too.

Personally, I happen to like women in heels, but that's very much a personal thing.

What I so have a problem with is girls/women wearing clothing that produces an inaccurate body image. This whole idea of the "enhancing" bras and other items that create an inaccurate idea of what her body looks like just don't do it for me. If you're so unhappy with your appearance that you need to use things like that to change it, then you're probably not the sort of woman that I'm going to be interested in to begin with. Again, it's about being comfortable and confident in what your body is rather than trying to hide/change it to be something it isn't.

 

[Anachronism]

I love wearing skirts, but I really prefer the soft, floaty type to tight, short ones. As I keep pointing out, the operative phrase is "ease of access". Also, it gets hotter than hell here from late spring through mid-fall, and light fabrics with lots of air flow are VERY useful. And I INSIST on comfortable shoes, because nothing looks less attractive to me than a woman wearing hooker shoes who looks like she's tottering on stilts and about to break her ankle. Go with something a bit shorter-heeled that lets you walk gracefully, for God's sake.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the soft, floaty types, Cecilie. I agree with the "ease of access" concept too. I once heard/read the suggestion that.... "A woman's clothes should make her Man want to get her out of them."

As I said in my last post, I like a woman in heels. That doesn't mean they have to be 6" tall, though. A little bit of sanity and moderation are a good thing at times.

Depends on the jeans. These days, in order to get that figure-hugging look, a lot of jeans incorporate a certain amount of stretchiness into the fabric, so while it looks like painted-on denim, it feels a bit closer to workout leggings.

Most of my jeans are made that way because I hate the feel of the button digging in my stomach if I happen to move or stretch the wrong direction.

Tight doesn't need to mean "skin-tight". Though I do have to say that a pair of really loose, baggy jeans generally look terrible on most women, unless you're out working in the yard or moving things around the house. There is a happy medium between "falling off" and "skin tight".

 

[Cecilie1200]

I've never understood why women wear high heels. Sure, when you're standing still, fuck me shoes make your legs look longer and shapelier. But once you start walking the pain they cause is usually evident in the ungraceful way a woman moves.

The Chinese used to think bound feet were sexy too.

Personally, I happen to like women in heels, but that's very much a personal thing.

What I so have a problem with is girls/women wearing clothing that produces an inaccurate body image. This whole idea of the "enhancing" bras and other items that create an inaccurate idea of what her body looks like just don't do it for me. If you're so unhappy with your appearance that you need to use things like that to change it, then you're probably not the sort of woman that I'm going to be interested in to begin with. Again, it's about being comfortable and confident in what your body is rather than trying to hide/change it to be something it isn't.

I occasionally wear a MINIMIZING bra if I'm wearing a shirt with buttons, because it keeps the damned thing from gapping between the buttons.

 

[Anguille]

I've never understood why women wear high heels. Sure, when you're standing still, fuck me shoes make your legs look longer and shapelier. But once you start walking the pain they cause is usually evident in the ungraceful way a woman moves.

The Chinese used to think bound feet were sexy too.

Personally, I happen to like women in heels, but that's very much a personal thing.

What I so have a problem with is girls/women wearing clothing that produces an inaccurate body image. This whole idea of the "enhancing" bras and other items that create an inaccurate idea of what her body looks like just don't do it for me. If you're so unhappy with your appearance that you need to use things like that to change it, then you're probably not the sort of woman that I'm going to be interested in to begin with. Again, it's about being comfortable and confident in what your body is rather than trying to hide/change it to be something it isn't.

High heels produce an inaccurate body image.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I love wearing skirts, but I really prefer the soft, floaty type to tight, short ones. As I keep pointing out, the operative phrase is "ease of access". Also, it gets hotter than hell here from late spring through mid-fall, and light fabrics with lots of air flow are VERY useful. And I INSIST on comfortable shoes, because nothing looks less attractive to me than a woman wearing hooker shoes who looks like she's tottering on stilts and about to break her ankle. Go with something a bit shorter-heeled that lets you walk gracefully, for God's sake.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the soft, floaty types, Cecilie. I agree with the "ease of access" concept too. I once heard/read the suggestion that.... "A woman's clothes should make her Man want to get her out of them."

As I said in my last post, I like a woman in heels. That doesn't mean they have to be 6" tall, though. A little bit of sanity and moderation are a good thing at times.

Depends on the jeans. These days, in order to get that figure-hugging look, a lot of jeans incorporate a certain amount of stretchiness into the fabric, so while it looks like painted-on denim, it feels a bit closer to workout leggings.

Most of my jeans are made that way because I hate the feel of the button digging in my stomach if I happen to move or stretch the wrong direction.

Tight doesn't need to mean "skin-tight". Though I do have to say that a pair of really loose, baggy jeans generally look terrible on most women, unless you're out working in the yard or moving things around the house. There is a happy medium between "falling off" and "skin tight".

Pardon me for being naughty, but sometimes, I don't want him to take the time to get me out of them. Just wanting to move them out of the way can be fun, too.

I like wearing heels and dressy shoes. BUT . . . I will not wear shoes that are going to cripple my feet. And I will not wear shoes that I can't walk gracefully in. I will sacrifice an inch or two in height to be able to move without having to plan it out like the invasion of Normandy.

It's actually not that hard these days to find heels that are also pretty comfortable. They're not as comfy as my sneakers, but they're more comfy than your average dress shoe.

 

[Anguille]

I love wearing skirts, but I really prefer the soft, floaty type to tight, short ones. As I keep pointing out, the operative phrase is "ease of access". Also, it gets hotter than hell here from late spring through mid-fall, and light fabrics with lots of air flow are VERY useful. And I INSIST on comfortable shoes, because nothing looks less attractive to me than a woman wearing hooker shoes who looks like she's tottering on stilts and about to break her ankle. Go with something a bit shorter-heeled that lets you walk gracefully, for God's sake.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the soft, floaty types, Cecilie. I agree with the "ease of access" concept too. I once heard/read the suggestion that.... "A woman's clothes should make her Man want to get her out of them."

As I said in my last post, I like a woman in heels. That doesn't mean they have to be 6" tall, though. A little bit of sanity and moderation are a good thing at times.

Depends on the jeans. These days, in order to get that figure-hugging look, a lot of jeans incorporate a certain amount of stretchiness into the fabric, so while it looks like painted-on denim, it feels a bit closer to workout leggings.

Most of my jeans are made that way because I hate the feel of the button digging in my stomach if I happen to move or stretch the wrong direction.

Tight doesn't need to mean "skin-tight". Though I do have to say that a pair of really loose, baggy jeans generally look terrible on most women, unless you're out working in the yard or moving things around the house. There is a happy medium between "falling off" and "skin tight".

Pardon me for being naughty, but sometimes, I don't want him to take the time to get me out of them. Just wanting to move them out of the way can be fun, too.

I like wearing heels and dressy shoes. BUT . . . I will not wear shoes that are going to cripple my feet. And I will not wear shoes that I can't walk gracefully in. I will sacrifice an inch or two in height to be able to move without having to plan it out like the invasion of Normandy.

It's actually not that hard these days to find heels that are also pretty comfortable. They're not as comfy as my sneakers, but they're more comfy than your average dress shoe.

Nor will I. I think the way a woman moves is just as important as how she looks in terms of being attractive. Moderate high heels with good support are a good compromise. What's the point of looking good when you're wearing instruments of torture and certainly don't feel good.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the soft, floaty types, Cecilie. I agree with the "ease of access" concept too. I once heard/read the suggestion that.... "A woman's clothes should make her Man want to get her out of them."

As I said in my last post, I like a woman in heels. That doesn't mean they have to be 6" tall, though. A little bit of sanity and moderation are a good thing at times.



Tight doesn't need to mean "skin-tight". Though I do have to say that a pair of really loose, baggy jeans generally look terrible on most women, unless you're out working in the yard or moving things around the house. There is a happy medium between "falling off" and "skin tight".

Pardon me for being naughty, but sometimes, I don't want him to take the time to get me out of them. Just wanting to move them out of the way can be fun, too.

I like wearing heels and dressy shoes. BUT . . . I will not wear shoes that are going to cripple my feet. And I will not wear shoes that I can't walk gracefully in. I will sacrifice an inch or two in height to be able to move without having to plan it out like the invasion of Normandy.

It's actually not that hard these days to find heels that are also pretty comfortable. They're not as comfy as my sneakers, but they're more comfy than your average dress shoe.

Nor will I. I think the way a woman moves is just as important as how she looks in terms of being attractive. Moderate high heels with good support are a good compromise. What's the point of looking good when you're wearing instruments of torture and certainly don't feel good.

And I just can't imagine what a man would find sexy about a woman who looks like a newborn colt trying to learn to stand for the first time . . . unless he's a predator who figures it'll be harder for her to get away.

 

[Anachronism]

I occasionally wear a MINIMIZING bra if I'm wearing a shirt with buttons, because it keeps the damned thing from gapping between the buttons.

I've known a couple of women with similar issues in the past. That's not really the problem that I have. It's more at the other end of the spectrum.

High heels produce an inaccurate body image.

Heels are an obvious thing. They change a woman's height, but it's obvious that they're doing it, unlike an ultra-padded, push up bra making a B cup look like a pair of D's.

Pardon me for being naughty, but sometimes, I don't want him to take the time to get me out of them. Just wanting to move them out of the way can be fun, too.

Nothing at all wrong with that, Cecilie.

I like wearing heels and dressy shoes. BUT . . . I will not wear shoes that are going to cripple my feet. And I will not wear shoes that I can't walk gracefully in. I will sacrifice an inch or two in height to be able to move without having to plan it out like the invasion of Normandy.

It's actually not that hard these days to find heels that are also pretty comfortable. They're not as comfy as my sneakers, but they're more comfy than your average dress shoe.

Agreed. No reason to injure yourself trying to look good. Especially when there are reasonably comfortable options that produce essentially the same look.

Nor will I. I think the way a woman moves is just as important as how she looks in terms of being attractive. Moderate high heels with good support are a good compromise. What's the point of looking good when you're wearing instruments of torture and certainly don't feel good.

Very true on all counts; though there is one "torture device" that I tend to like seeing a woman in..... a corset. Though properly made and fitted corsets are not terrible to wear from what I've been told.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I occasionally wear a MINIMIZING bra if I'm wearing a shirt with buttons, because it keeps the damned thing from gapping between the buttons.

I've known a couple of women with similar issues in the past. That's not really the problem that I have. It's more at the other end of the spectrum.

High heels produce an inaccurate body image.

Heels are an obvious thing. They change a woman's height, but it's obvious that they're doing it, unlike an ultra-padded, push up bra making a B cup look like a pair of D's.



Nothing at all wrong with that, Cecilie.

I like wearing heels and dressy shoes. BUT . . . I will not wear shoes that are going to cripple my feet. And I will not wear shoes that I can't walk gracefully in. I will sacrifice an inch or two in height to be able to move without having to plan it out like the invasion of Normandy.

It's actually not that hard these days to find heels that are also pretty comfortable. They're not as comfy as my sneakers, but they're more comfy than your average dress shoe.

Agreed. No reason to injure yourself trying to look good. Especially when there are reasonably comfortable options that produce essentially the same look.

Nor will I. I think the way a woman moves is just as important as how she looks in terms of being attractive. Moderate high heels with good support are a good compromise. What's the point of looking good when you're wearing instruments of torture and certainly don't feel good.

Very true on all counts; though there is one "torture device" that I tend to like seeing a woman in..... a corset. Though properly made and fitted corsets are not terrible to wear from what I've been told.

I like wearing corsets, but on the other hand, I started out with an hourglass-ish figure, and I have excellent posture. I'm also not dumb enough to lace it so tight that I can't breathe. I may not be singing opera, but I'm certainly not passing out.