Lesson from Detroit: DONT count on Big Business for your city to thrive

[bucs90]

Here is the lesson we should take from Detroits mess:

1- States and cities beg Big Business to locate there (see Texas currently)
2- Cities and states can THRIVE when they do. See Boeing/BMW in South Carolina

While South Carolina and Texas are doing great right now due to Big Business relocating there.........at one time so was Detroit.

So, a city may beg Big Business to locate there. And they'll get a windfall of money and growth. They may build parks, and schools, and neighborhoods and bridges. They'll expand their police and fire departments. They MIGHT even be ambitious, and offer better compensation to get the best and brightest to serve the city. And for a while, things will go wonderfully. Heck, an NFL may even come there, like Charlotte got in 1994 due, in part, to it's economic boom the banking industry brought.







BUT....................

Then comes a bad time

Those big businesses your city and state welcomed with open arms? Well, just like an alien spaceship moving from planet to planet to harvest it........that big business may find a cheaper place to operate.

They wont remember the welcome they got. The tax breaks they got. The love and loyalty the people showed them. They wont remember the countless small businesses they may have put out of business due to locating there. OR the countless that opened as a result of their being there, and the dependence those small businesses have on the bigger one being there.

And one day the Big Business tells it's shareholders who are playing polo in the East Hamptons........"Folks, we are moving our operations to a more profitable location".

And the same city that welcomed them and supported them and helped them thrive, that city remains. The business doesnt.

So the lesson is............if your city gets or has a Big Business, fine. Go work there. But dont count on them. DONT count on that corporation to always be there, DONT count on it to show ANY loyalty, in any way, to the city or the people. When the Big Business is done with your city, harvested all the labor and profits it can, IT WILL LEAVE.

Just see Detroit.

 

[bucs90]

Oh, and always remember this when consuming. When you pick a major corporation to do business with, over a small one, you are supporting the very same parasite-like corporate behavior that causes these messes.

I fear my city, Charleston, SC, is getting extremely cozy with Boeing. The windfall money is nice, and the local city government is doing some great stuff with it. Subdivisions are exploding with growth with the economic boom here.

But much like when the Navy base left here in the 90's, the day may come when Boeing finds a more profitable host, and will leave. And Charleston will have built a large part of its stability up around the assumption that Boeing will be there.

 

[007]

But if there is big business there, and they're unionized, you can count on the unions and their democrap friends in power to ruin the businesses.

 

[bucs90]

But if there is big business there, and they're unionized, you can count on the unions and their democrap friends in power to ruin the businesses.

Thats true, and a valid point. With the Dept of Labor and modern society, unions are mostly unnecessary these days.

But even without a union, there will always be cheaper labor somewhere else.

Right now, Charleston is thriving with Boeing and BMW in-state.

But, 20 years from now, who knows. The poor people in India, Brazil, Mexico may have gotten their act together enough to do that job, and Boeing/BMW could uproot and just say "Fuck off SC, we're leaving".

Just one of the problems we face though. A corporation with shareholders will ALWAYS put maximum profit as the #1 priority, over anything else, including loyalty, even if it isn't necessary for company survival, but, would provide more payouts to shareholders.

 

[Pete7469]

The lesson is;

Count on leftists to destroy businesses and industries through force of government.

Count on the same bed wetters to bankrupt local governments.

Count on the mindless sheep to blame the victims.

 

[jasonnfree]

But if there is big business there, and they're unionized, you can count on the unions and their democrap friends in power to ruin the businesses.

Thats true, and a valid point. With the Dept of Labor and modern society, unions are mostly unnecessary these days.

But even without a union, there will always be cheaper labor somewhere else.

Right now, Charleston is thriving with Boeing and BMW in-state.

But, 20 years from now, who knows. The poor people in India, Brazil, Mexico may have gotten their act together enough to do that job, and Boeing/BMW could uproot and just say "Fuck off SC, we're leaving".

Just one of the problems we face though. A corporation with shareholders will ALWAYS put maximum profit as the #1 priority, over anything else, including loyalty, even if it isn't necessary for company survival, but, would provide more payouts to shareholders.

It may be sooner than 20 years. Obama hopes to fast track another trade bill (TPP) this year and even congress doesn't know what's in it. It won't even need a supermajority in the senate. This is how badly owned he is by big business. repubs are of course no better.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The lesson is;

Count on leftists to destroy businesses and industries through force of government.

Count on the same bed wetters to bankrupt local governments.

Count on the mindless sheep to blame the victims.

And after all of that, count on them to blame the Republicans.

 

[Pete7469]

But if there is big business there, and they're unionized, you can count on the unions and their democrap friends in power to ruin the businesses.

Thats true, and a valid point. With the Dept of Labor and modern society, unions are mostly unnecessary these days.

But even without a union, there will always be cheaper labor somewhere else.

Right now, Charleston is thriving with Boeing and BMW in-state.

But, 20 years from now, who knows. The poor people in India, Brazil, Mexico may have gotten their act together enough to do that job, and Boeing/BMW could uproot and just say "Fuck off SC, we're leaving".

Just one of the problems we face though. A corporation with shareholders will ALWAYS put maximum profit as the #1 priority, over anything else, including loyalty, even if it isn't necessary for company survival, but, would provide more payouts to shareholders.

Uprooting an industry and rebuilding on another continent has to be extremely expensive.

If Boeing says 'fuck off SC', it will be because SC said 'gimmie gimmie'. These thriving industries didn't just uproot and rebuild in turd world countries to take advantage of the labor force. With all the security issues, plus the eventual labor strikes that wouldn't make sense.

Government destroyed a once positive environment for business to thrive. Business is done for the sole purpose of profits. Our government taxes business and regulates them to the point where starting over in impoverished shitholes is preferable.

That's the problem.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But if there is big business there, and they're unionized, you can count on the unions and their democrap friends in power to ruin the businesses.

Thats true, and a valid point. With the Dept of Labor and modern society, unions are mostly unnecessary these days.

But even without a union, there will always be cheaper labor somewhere else.

Right now, Charleston is thriving with Boeing and BMW in-state.

But, 20 years from now, who knows. The poor people in India, Brazil, Mexico may have gotten their act together enough to do that job, and Boeing/BMW could uproot and just say "Fuck off SC, we're leaving".

Just one of the problems we face though. A corporation with shareholders will ALWAYS put maximum profit as the #1 priority, over anything else, including loyalty, even if it isn't necessary for company survival, but, would provide more payouts to shareholders.

The shareholders in this case, (sticking to the analogy) just bankrupted the corporation.

 

[Pete7469]

The lesson is;

Count on leftists to destroy businesses and industries through force of government.

Count on the same bed wetters to bankrupt local governments.

Count on the mindless sheep to blame the victims.

And after all of that, count on them to blame the Republicans.

That's the funny thing about bed wetters.

They'll declare they're atheists in one argument, and then blame God for their failures in the next.

 

[bucs90]

But if there is big business there, and they're unionized, you can count on the unions and their democrap friends in power to ruin the businesses.

Thats true, and a valid point. With the Dept of Labor and modern society, unions are mostly unnecessary these days.

But even without a union, there will always be cheaper labor somewhere else.

Right now, Charleston is thriving with Boeing and BMW in-state.

But, 20 years from now, who knows. The poor people in India, Brazil, Mexico may have gotten their act together enough to do that job, and Boeing/BMW could uproot and just say "Fuck off SC, we're leaving".

Just one of the problems we face though. A corporation with shareholders will ALWAYS put maximum profit as the #1 priority, over anything else, including loyalty, even if it isn't necessary for company survival, but, would provide more payouts to shareholders.

It may be sooner than 20 years. Obama hopes to fast track another trade bill (TPP) this year and even congress doesn't know what's in it. It won't even need a supermajority in the senate. This is how badly owned he is by big business. repubs are of course no better.

Yep. Which is why Im neither a Dem or Repub. They're all morons, cowards and assholes, and on the payroll of big business.


Right wingers in SC cheerfully boast about how right wing policies brought BMW, Amazon, Boeing to South Carolina, and in particular, helped the city of Charleston thrive with it's sea port and airport being key to all three. They say its our right wing policies that drew them here and will help us thrive for centuries to come.

Well, Detroit thrived once also.

And our local govts are boosting their manpower, building schools and roads, the housing market is booming, etc, etc, to support all the growth these corporations are bringing with them.

And what do we do in 20 years, when they flee to Brazil or Mexico? And we've got cops and firemen on a retirement they earned serving the growth those companies brought......but now cant get their retirement because the city collapsed when the businesses fled?

It'll never happen. But there should be contracts that a city and corporation can sign, one in which the company commits to an expected tax revenue contribution over the next 20 years, so even if they flee in 10, they still pay that city for the remainder of that contract.

That would help, because cities must adjust their services to accomodate, and when business uproots and flees, they leave the city to suffer.

 

[bucs90]

But if there is big business there, and they're unionized, you can count on the unions and their democrap friends in power to ruin the businesses.

Thats true, and a valid point. With the Dept of Labor and modern society, unions are mostly unnecessary these days.

But even without a union, there will always be cheaper labor somewhere else.

Right now, Charleston is thriving with Boeing and BMW in-state.

But, 20 years from now, who knows. The poor people in India, Brazil, Mexico may have gotten their act together enough to do that job, and Boeing/BMW could uproot and just say "Fuck off SC, we're leaving".

Just one of the problems we face though. A corporation with shareholders will ALWAYS put maximum profit as the #1 priority, over anything else, including loyalty, even if it isn't necessary for company survival, but, would provide more payouts to shareholders.

Uprooting an industry and rebuilding on another continent has to be extremely expensive.

If Boeing says 'fuck off SC', it will be because SC said 'gimmie gimmie'. These thriving industries didn't just uproot and rebuild in turd world countries to take advantage of the labor force. With all the security issues, plus the eventual labor strikes that wouldn't make sense.

Government destroyed a once positive environment for business to thrive. Business is done for the sole purpose of profits. Our government taxes business and regulates them to the point where starting over in impoverished shitholes is preferable.

That's the problem.

Then how do you propose they do it?

It is a fact that when big business comes in, everything grows. That is true. Population grows. Small business grows around it. Housing grows.

But then....the demand for services grows. Schools, roads, cops, firemen.

So the government must answer those demands. And that means they need a bigger budget to do all that, and to attract better employees to provide the BEST possible service.

More business also means more tax revenue, so that contributes a lot to it. But some places, like South Carolina, gives sweetheart deals to companies......like they did for Amazon, who got lured with the promise of paying basically NO TAXES here! So, while Amazon will come and bring more people, more jobs, cause more houses, they'll pay disproportionately less taxes than the local city will need to support the bigger population, housing, school kids, crime, etc, etc.

So how does that city pay for that???? (It's Columbia, SC, btw, that got that deal with Amazon)

Or, what if a business wants to come...but like you said, problems like crime worry them. Well, how does THAT city fix that? They need more cops and better cops. Well, you have to PAY for that. It's a free labor market for cops too. So, they need to lure the best of the bunch to their city, and that means they have to pay them more. So, the government competes for labor with other cities to provide the best environment for business to operate.

Its all a huge cooperative situation, NOT an "Us vs Them" that some try to paint the Business vs Government situation to be.

But the fact is, business can uproot and flee, and the local city cannot.

 

[Steven_R]

And what do we do in 20 years, when they flee to Brazil or Mexico? And we've got cops and firemen on a retirement they earned serving the growth those companies brought......but now cant get their retirement because the city collapsed when the businesses fled?

It'll never happen. But there should be contracts that a city and corporation can sign, one in which the company commits to an expected tax revenue contribution over the next 20 years, so even if they flee in 10, they still pay that city for the remainder of that contract.

That would help, because cities must adjust their services to accomodate, and when business uproots and flees, they leave the city to suffer.

The company exists to make money for the owners, not to support the city. If they can thrive together, great. If not, then the company has every right to pick up stakes and move to somewhere that doesn't turn the screws.

All those employees that work for said company also pay taxes, and so do the support companies and peripheral companies and so on and so forth. Do they factor into that 20 contract equation, never mind the fact that companies don't pay taxes; they pass those costs on to their consumer.

But let's say we go with your plan. Is it a one-sided deal? If the company has a bad year and a shortfall does the company get a tax break or just a letter from the city reading, "too bad. pay us." How about a break on city-owned utilities?

 

[Pete7469]

Thats true, and a valid point. With the Dept of Labor and modern society, unions are mostly unnecessary these days.

But even without a union, there will always be cheaper labor somewhere else.

Right now, Charleston is thriving with Boeing and BMW in-state.

But, 20 years from now, who knows. The poor people in India, Brazil, Mexico may have gotten their act together enough to do that job, and Boeing/BMW could uproot and just say "Fuck off SC, we're leaving".

Just one of the problems we face though. A corporation with shareholders will ALWAYS put maximum profit as the #1 priority, over anything else, including loyalty, even if it isn't necessary for company survival, but, would provide more payouts to shareholders.

Uprooting an industry and rebuilding on another continent has to be extremely expensive.

If Boeing says 'fuck off SC', it will be because SC said 'gimmie gimmie'. These thriving industries didn't just uproot and rebuild in turd world countries to take advantage of the labor force. With all the security issues, plus the eventual labor strikes that wouldn't make sense.

Government destroyed a once positive environment for business to thrive. Business is done for the sole purpose of profits. Our government taxes business and regulates them to the point where starting over in impoverished shitholes is preferable.

That's the problem.

Then how do you propose they do it?

It is a fact that when big business comes in, everything grows. That is true. Population grows. Small business grows around it. Housing grows.

But then....the demand for services grows. Schools, roads, cops, firemen.

So the government must answer those demands. And that means they need a bigger budget to do all that, and to attract better employees to provide the BEST possible service.

More business also means more tax revenue, so that contributes a lot to it. But some places, like South Carolina, gives sweetheart deals to companies......like they did for Amazon, who got lured with the promise of paying basically NO TAXES here! So, while Amazon will come and bring more people, more jobs, cause more houses, they'll pay disproportionately less taxes than the local city will need to support the bigger population, housing, school kids, crime, etc, etc.

So how does that city pay for that???? (It's Columbia, SC, btw, that got that deal with Amazon)

Or, what if a business wants to come...but like you said, problems like crime worry them. Well, how does THAT city fix that? They need more cops and better cops. Well, you have to PAY for that. It's a free labor market for cops too. So, they need to lure the best of the bunch to their city, and that means they have to pay them more. So, the government competes for labor with other cities to provide the best environment for business to operate.

Its all a huge cooperative situation, NOT an "Us vs Them" that some try to paint the Business vs Government situation to be.

But the fact is, business can uproot and flee, and the local city cannot.

If local/state governments were truly frugal, and provided the services demanded through direct taxation people would be more in tune with the costs of their demands. Draining money out of an industry makes it so that the people are disconnected from the expenses of their demands, and the industry itself isn't the one demanding the services.

Furthermore when you have cities with hordes of unelected buearcrats each with a squad of "assistants" that do the actual "make work" jobs you're looking at incredible costs in salaries and pensions just to keep people in offices where their only real purpose is to interfere with other people's productivity.

Regarding cops and crime I disagree with your premise. The problem with crime isn't limited to police. Our modern police depts are geared up and trained better than most countries special forces. The crime problem in our country is due too far too many people relying on police to prevent crime, but everytime the police take proactive prevention steps they're getting sued. Everytime they shoot a sociopathic scumbag, they're tied up in court cases costing millions.

The citizenry only has itself to blame for not taking responsibility for their own safety. Like it or not, Zimmerman took that matter into his own hands and the world is better off with one less thug, who likely would have either been killed by another thug anyway or thrown into prison.