Let the States Decide- ALA Supreme Court Justice urges Defiance- Gay Marraige

[Seawytch]

If this was a civil rights issue, you may have a point

-Geaux

This is a civil rights issue.

Again, no it's not- Fundamental rights are those that are deeply rooted in our nation's history and tradition. Same sex marriage is not deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions.

-Geaux

Neither were the rights of blacks and women.

Tradition is irrelevant.

These guys think they are being original...but all their "arguments" have been shot down already:

Richard Posner, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan in 1981, hit the backers of the ban the hardest. He balked when Wisconsin Assistant Attorney General Timothy Samuelson repeatedly pointed to “tradition” as the underlying justification for barring gay marriage.

“It was tradition to not allow blacks and whites to marry — a tradition that got swept away,” the 75-year-old judge said. Prohibition of same sex marriage, Posner said, derives from “a tradition of hate ... and savage discrimination” of homosexuals.
​

Federal judges blast Indiana, Wisconsin gay marriage bans

There are many immoral laws. Add gay marriage to the list

-Geaux

What a stunningly biting response.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If this was a civil rights issue, you may have a point

-Geaux

This is a civil rights issue.

Again, no it's not- Fundamental rights are those that are deeply rooted in our nation's history and tradition. Same sex marriage is not deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions.

-Geaux

Neither were the rights of blacks and women.

Tradition is irrelevant.

These guys think they are being original...but all their "arguments" have been shot down already:

Richard Posner, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan in 1981, hit the backers of the ban the hardest. He balked when Wisconsin Assistant Attorney General Timothy Samuelson repeatedly pointed to “tradition” as the underlying justification for barring gay marriage.

“It was tradition to not allow blacks and whites to marry — a tradition that got swept away,” the 75-year-old judge said. Prohibition of same sex marriage, Posner said, derives from “a tradition of hate ... and savage discrimination” of homosexuals.
​

Federal judges blast Indiana, Wisconsin gay marriage bans

There are many immoral laws. Add gay marriage to the list

-Geaux

Morality is subjective.

 

[mdk]

I'm telling you. Next we'll have unions with chickens recognized in the USA. There in no end to the insanity

Stand by to stand by

-Geaux

The moment a chicken can legally consent to a marriage contract you let me know and I'll send my well wishes and a gift to the happy couple. I'll assume they will be registered at PetSmart.

 

[paperview]

If it were up to the states to decide civil rights issues then there would be no real need for a Constitution, at least not one of the sort we have.

If this was a civil rights issue, you may have a point

-Geaux

This is a civil rights issue.

Again, no it's not- Fundamental rights are those that are deeply rooted in our nation's history and tradition. Same sex marriage is not deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions.

-Geaux

Neither were the rights of blacks and women.

Tradition is irrelevant.

These guys think they are being original...but all their "arguments" have been shot down already:

Richard Posner, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan in 1981, hit the backers of the ban the hardest. He balked when Wisconsin Assistant Attorney General Timothy Samuelson repeatedly pointed to “tradition” as the underlying justification for barring gay marriage.

“It was tradition to not allow blacks and whites to marry — a tradition that got swept away,” the 75-year-old judge said. Prohibition of same sex marriage, Posner said, derives from “a tradition of hate ... and savage discrimination” of homosexuals.
​

Federal judges blast Indiana, Wisconsin gay marriage bans

It wasn't until 1993 it would be illegal in all 50 states for a man to rape his wife.

Only in the 1970's did it start to be criminalized.

Some "traditions' really held on.

 

[defcon4]

Somebody help me out here. My best friend just got married. She and her wife waited 15 years to do this. But I am very confused about the vocabulary.
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
husband |ˈhəzbənd|
noun a married man considered in relation to his wife
wife |wīf|noun
( pl. wives |wīvz| )a married woman considered in relation to her husband.
How dictionary definitions are going to catch up with social changes?

It already is. Merriam Webster:

Wife: a married woman : the woman someone is married to
Husband: a married man : the man someone is married to

How bout this part?
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife:

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Somebody help me out here. My best friend just got married. She and her wife waited 15 years to do this. But I am very confused about the vocabulary.
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
husband |ˈhəzbənd|
noun a married man considered in relation to his wife
wife |wīf|noun
( pl. wives |wīvz| )a married woman considered in relation to her husband.
How dictionary definitions are going to catch up with social changes?

It already is. Merriam Webster:

Wife: a married woman : the woman someone is married to
Husband: a married man : the man someone is married to

How bout this part?
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife:

How 'bout words and the meaning of words change over time so try being a grownup about it?

 

[defcon4]

Somebody help me out here. My best friend just got married. She and her wife waited 15 years to do this. But I am very confused about the vocabulary.
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
husband |ˈhəzbənd|
noun a married man considered in relation to his wife
wife |wīf|noun
( pl. wives |wīvz| )a married woman considered in relation to her husband.
How dictionary definitions are going to catch up with social changes?

It already is. Merriam Webster:

Wife: a married woman : the woman someone is married to
Husband: a married man : the man someone is married to

How bout this part?
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife:

How 'bout words and the meaning of words change over time so try being a grownup about it?

I am inquiring. If you have no answer to my question then admit it, that's the grownup behavior reflecting character.

 

[Seawytch]

Somebody help me out here. My best friend just got married. She and her wife waited 15 years to do this. But I am very confused about the vocabulary.
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
husband |ˈhəzbənd|
noun a married man considered in relation to his wife
wife |wīf|noun
( pl. wives |wīvz| )a married woman considered in relation to her husband.
How dictionary definitions are going to catch up with social changes?

It already is. Merriam Webster:

Wife: a married woman : the woman someone is married to
Husband: a married man : the man someone is married to

How bout this part?
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife:

Again, Merriam Webster:

mar·riage
noun\ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
: the relationship that exists between a husband and a wife

: a similar relationship between people of the same sex

: a ceremony in which two people are married to each other

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Somebody help me out here. My best friend just got married. She and her wife waited 15 years to do this. But I am very confused about the vocabulary.
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
husband |ˈhəzbənd|
noun a married man considered in relation to his wife
wife |wīf|noun
( pl. wives |wīvz| )a married woman considered in relation to her husband.
How dictionary definitions are going to catch up with social changes?

It already is. Merriam Webster:

Wife: a married woman : the woman someone is married to
Husband: a married man : the man someone is married to

How bout this part?
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife:

How 'bout words and the meaning of words change over time so try being a grownup about it?

I am inquiring. If you have no answer to my question then admit it, that's the grownup behavior reflecting character.

The answer is grow up because faggots have now been granted equality before the law in this thing we call a Marriage License, which creates a state-sanctioned Legally Binding Contract. The dictionaries are just like you, they have yet to catch up with the times.

 

[The Rabbi]

Of course I believe in the Constitution and the right to bear arms. I have guns and know how to use them.

I was speaking about laws that the States pass that you don't like. If you don't like those laws then vote out those passing them.

He knows perfectly well as do I that the right to bear arms is in the Constitution. Of course some on the left would rather it weren't. They think no one should own a gun for any reason.

He didn't say you didn't like the 2nd Amendment, he asked why have a Constitution if the states can just say "fuck you, I do what I want".

The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right and therefore, anti gay marriage bans based solely on animus are being found unconstitutional...just like handgun bans were.

"The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right"
Not correct.
SCOTUS will not rule on the question until April when the Court will hear 4 cases regarding the issue.
Now, you are free to maintain your position. However, let's be clear. The above is your opinion.
Court will rule on same-sex marriage UPDATED SCOTUSblog

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Not in most of the states they don't...but the SCOTUS will take care of the bakers dozen left.

Argument 2.
SCOTUS will follow the precedent of Windsor and declare states are empowered to decide what constitutes marriage.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ah, but my CC permit is not treated differently than yours while my marriage license is. That's discrimination and the SCOTUS is about to find it unconstitutional.

Nope. Your permit is not valid in TN. Your "marriage license" isnt either. No discrimination as they are all treated equally.

Untrue, my permit is recognized, but hers isn't. That's NOT equal treatment.

You're right, it's not equal treatment. Remind me why that's bad.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm telling you. Next we'll have unions with chickens recognized in the USA. There in no end to the insanity

Stand by to stand by

-Geaux

Argument #1.
This is funny. You and your cohorts repeat the same 2 arguments over and over. They are failures, totally debunked and lacking any validity. But as your hero Goebbels said repeat a lie over and over and people will believe it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Another straw man argument.
BTW, many states( blue) have restrictive gun laws. So your point is moot

No, actually, my point is quite valid. (Take a look at the Heller case and get back to me, m'kay?)

His point is quite valid. And it trumps your next contention. My carry permit is not valid in all 50 states byt my drivers license is, as is my marriage license.
States have the power to set their own standards.

Ah, but my CC permit is not treated differently than yours while my marriage license is. That's discrimination and the SCOTUS is about to find it unconstitutional.

Yes it is.. Your CC permit is not recognized by all states, so it is treated differently. For instance, CA only recognizes a few states CCW.

-Geaux

If my CC permit was treated differently than yours because I'm gay, he and you would have a point. It isn't. My CA CC permit is treated exactly the same as anyone else's CA CC permit. My CA marriage license, however, is not treated the same as one issued to a straight couple...despite it being the exact same license issued by the exact same authority.

Actually your "marriage license" is not treated the same not because you are gay. That is simply wrong. It is not treated the same because it does not conform to the requirements laid out in the TN state constitution.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Ah, but my CC permit is not treated differently than yours while my marriage license is. That's discrimination and the SCOTUS is about to find it unconstitutional.

Nope. Your permit is not valid in TN. Your "marriage license" isnt either. No discrimination as they are all treated equally.

Untrue, my permit is recognized, but hers isn't. That's NOT equal treatment.

You're right, it's not equal treatment. Remind me why that's bad.

Ah, it's un-American, for starters.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If it were up to the states to decide civil rights issues then there would be no real need for a Constitution, at least not one of the sort we have.

If this was a civil rights issue, you may have a point

-Geaux

This is a civil rights issue.

Again, no it's not- Fundamental rights are those that are deeply rooted in our nation's history and tradition. Same sex marriage is not deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions.

-Geaux

Incorrect.

The right to due process and equal protection of the law are fundamental; that something is perceived to be traditional does not make it immune from being reviewed and invalidated by the courts.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If it were up to the states to decide civil rights issues then there would be no real need for a Constitution, at least not one of the sort we have.

If this was a civil rights issue, you may have a point

-Geaux

This is a civil rights issue.

Again, no it's not- Fundamental rights are those that are deeply rooted in our nation's history and tradition. Same sex marriage is not deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions.

-Geaux

"Fundamental Right
Fundamental rights are a group of rights that have been recognized by the Supreme Court as requiring a high degree of protection from government encroachment. These rights are specifically identified in the Constitution (especially in the Bill of Rights), or have been found under Due Process. Laws limiting these rights generally must pass strict scrutiny to be upheld as constitutional. Examples of fundamental rights not specifically listed in the Constitution include the right to marry and the right to privacy, which includes a right to contraception and the right to interstate travel.

Fundamental Right Wex Legal Dictionary Encyclopedia LII Legal Information Institute"​

Interracial marriage was barred in most states for much of our history and was still barred in 18 States at the time of the Loving decision - therefore it would not have qualified under your definition.

The Supreme Court in numerous cases has recognized Civil Marriage as a fundamental right, as to whether that right extends to same-sex couples - well for that we will find out in about six months.


>>>>

key- ruled a fundamental right In the union of a man/woman of mixed race.

-Geaux

A 14th Amendment equal protection issue, as is the case with same-sex couples.

 

[defcon4]

Somebody help me out here. My best friend just got married. She and her wife waited 15 years to do this. But I am very confused about the vocabulary.
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
husband |ˈhəzbənd|
noun a married man considered in relation to his wife
wife |wīf|noun
( pl. wives |wīvz| )a married woman considered in relation to her husband.
How dictionary definitions are going to catch up with social changes?

It already is. Merriam Webster:

Wife: a married woman : the woman someone is married to
Husband: a married man : the man someone is married to

How bout this part?
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife:

Again, Merriam Webster:

mar·riage
noun\ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
: the relationship that exists between a husband and a wife

: a similar relationship between people of the same sex

: a ceremony in which two people are married to each other

Cool! The Merriam Webster online dictionary already has been changed to accommodate the social changes and you saved space to give the headline only. Excellent!
Thank you!

 

[The Rabbi]

If it were up to the states to decide civil rights issues then there would be no real need for a Constitution, at least not one of the sort we have.

If this was a civil rights issue, you may have a point

-Geaux

This is a civil rights issue.

Again, no it's not- Fundamental rights are those that are deeply rooted in our nation's history and tradition. Same sex marriage is not deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions.

-Geaux

Incorrect.

The right to due process and equal protection of the law are fundamental; that something is perceived to be traditional does not make it immune from being reviewed and invalidated by the courts.

Where have gays been denied due process? Where are they not receiving equal protection?

 

[Skylar]

I'm telling you. Next we'll have unions with chickens recognized in the USA. There in no end to the insanity

Stand by to stand by

-Geaux

Argument #1.
This is funny. You and your cohorts repeat the same 2 arguments over and over.

Yup! Because they're amazingly effective arguments that have convinced a solid majority of the nation and 42 of 44 federal courts that gay marriage bans are invalid.

And seem poised to convince the USSC of the same.

They are failures, totally debunked and lacking any validity.

Show us, don't tell us. And you can't.

That's why you allude to counter arguments.....but don't actually offer them. But don't tell us....you 'don't have time' to tell us why you're right?

 

[Skylar]

If it were up to the states to decide civil rights issues then there would be no real need for a Constitution, at least not one of the sort we have.

If this was a civil rights issue, you may have a point

-Geaux

This is a civil rights issue.

Again, no it's not- Fundamental rights are those that are deeply rooted in our nation's history and tradition. Same sex marriage is not deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions.

-Geaux

Incorrect.

The right to due process and equal protection of the law are fundamental; that something is perceived to be traditional does not make it immune from being reviewed and invalidated by the courts.

Exactly. "We discriminate because we've discriminated' is a circular argument. You need a valid state interest and very good reason to do so. And opponents of gay marriage don't have either.

Which is why they number the arguments that shatter their claims. But they can't refute them.