Let the States Decide- ALA Supreme Court Justice urges Defiance- Gay Marraige

[defcon4]

Gay marriage is cool! It is Mother Earth's reaction in defending Herself against over population.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I'm telling you. Next we'll have unions with chickens recognized in the USA. There in no end to the insanity

Stand by to stand by

-Geaux

This fails as a slippery slope fallacy.

This sort of demagoguery is ignorant, unwarranted, and devoid of merit.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Well it's a dandy idea...and is not our current system of government. What I described is unconstitutional...just like bans on gays marrying the partner of their choice.

I guess if you don't like the laws of our country, like the Constitution that says you can't violate my right to equal protection, you can move to a different one.

Then why even have a Constitution, if no one has to follow it?

Of course I believe in the Constitution and the right to bear arms. I have guns and know how to use them.

I was speaking about laws that the States pass that you don't like. If you don't like those laws then vote out those passing them.

He knows perfectly well as do I that the right to bear arms is in the Constitution. Of course some on the left would rather it weren't. They think no one should own a gun for any reason.

He didn't say you didn't like the 2nd Amendment, he asked why have a Constitution if the states can just say "fuck you, I do what I want".

The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right and therefore, anti gay marriage bans based solely on animus are being found unconstitutional...just like handgun bans were.

"The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right"
Not correct.
SCOTUS will not rule on the question until April when the Court will hear 4 cases regarding the issue.
Now, you are free to maintain your position. However, let's be clear. The above is your opinion.
Court will rule on same-sex marriage UPDATED SCOTUSblog

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Same-couples are being denied that right, the right to equal protection of the law.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Somebody help me out here. My best friend just got married. She and her wife waited 15 years to do this. But I am very confused about the vocabulary.
marriage |ˈmarij|noun
1 the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: a happy marriage | the children from his first marriage.
husband |ˈhəzbənd|
noun a married man considered in relation to his wife
wife |wīf|noun
( pl. wives |wīvz| )a married woman considered in relation to her husband.
How dictionary definitions are going to catch up with social changes?

The doctrine of coverture is no longer part of any state's marriage law; marriage is a union of two equal consenting adult partners - same- or opposite-sex.

 

[The Rabbi]

Of course I believe in the Constitution and the right to bear arms. I have guns and know how to use them.

I was speaking about laws that the States pass that you don't like. If you don't like those laws then vote out those passing them.

He knows perfectly well as do I that the right to bear arms is in the Constitution. Of course some on the left would rather it weren't. They think no one should own a gun for any reason.

He didn't say you didn't like the 2nd Amendment, he asked why have a Constitution if the states can just say "fuck you, I do what I want".

The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right and therefore, anti gay marriage bans based solely on animus are being found unconstitutional...just like handgun bans were.

"The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right"
Not correct.
SCOTUS will not rule on the question until April when the Court will hear 4 cases regarding the issue.
Now, you are free to maintain your position. However, let's be clear. The above is your opinion.
Court will rule on same-sex marriage UPDATED SCOTUSblog

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Same-couples are being denied that right, the right to equal protection of the law.

Couples dont have rights. Individuals have rights. And gay individuals can marry anyone straight individuals can marry.

 

[Skylar]

He didn't say you didn't like the 2nd Amendment, he asked why have a Constitution if the states can just say "fuck you, I do what I want".

The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right and therefore, anti gay marriage bans based solely on animus are being found unconstitutional...just like handgun bans were.

"The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right"
Not correct.
SCOTUS will not rule on the question until April when the Court will hear 4 cases regarding the issue.
Now, you are free to maintain your position. However, let's be clear. The above is your opinion.
Court will rule on same-sex marriage UPDATED SCOTUSblog

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Same-couples are being denied that right, the right to equal protection of the law.

Couples dont have rights. Individuals have rights. And gay individuals can marry anyone straight individuals can marry.

Same argument used with interracial marriage bans. As the restrictions against interracial marriage applied to both whites and blacks.

Problem was......the restriction itself needed a valid reason to be. Or it failed constitutional muster. And there's no such reason with gay marriage bans.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No, actually, my point is quite valid. (Take a look at the Heller case and get back to me, m'kay?)

His point is quite valid. And it trumps your next contention. My carry permit is not valid in all 50 states byt my drivers license is, as is my marriage license.
States have the power to set their own standards.

Ah, but my CC permit is not treated differently than yours while my marriage license is. That's discrimination and the SCOTUS is about to find it unconstitutional.

Yes it is.. Your CC permit is not recognized by all states, so it is treated differently. For instance, CA only recognizes a few states CCW.

-Geaux

If my CC permit was treated differently than yours because I'm gay, he and you would have a point. It isn't. My CA CC permit is treated exactly the same as anyone else's CA CC permit. My CA marriage license, however, is not treated the same as one issued to a straight couple...despite it being the exact same license issued by the exact same authority.

Your missing the point. The states are controlling the differences between Ca vs other states CC requirements.

-Geaux

False comparison fallacy.

The different criteria used to establish eligibly for a CCW is not the same as denying same-sex couples access to marriage law.

 

[The Rabbi]

His point is quite valid. And it trumps your next contention. My carry permit is not valid in all 50 states byt my drivers license is, as is my marriage license.
States have the power to set their own standards.

Ah, but my CC permit is not treated differently than yours while my marriage license is. That's discrimination and the SCOTUS is about to find it unconstitutional.

Yes it is.. Your CC permit is not recognized by all states, so it is treated differently. For instance, CA only recognizes a few states CCW.

-Geaux

If my CC permit was treated differently than yours because I'm gay, he and you would have a point. It isn't. My CA CC permit is treated exactly the same as anyone else's CA CC permit. My CA marriage license, however, is not treated the same as one issued to a straight couple...despite it being the exact same license issued by the exact same authority.

Your missing the point. The states are controlling the differences between Ca vs other states CC requirements.

-Geaux

False comparison fallacy.

The different criteria used to establish eligibly for a CCW is not the same as denying same-sex couples access to marriage law.

Thats simply wrong.
No one is denying same sex couples anything. The states set criteria and the couple either meets those criteria or they dont. Just like a carry permit.

 

[Skylar]

Ah, but my CC permit is not treated differently than yours while my marriage license is. That's discrimination and the SCOTUS is about to find it unconstitutional.

Yes it is.. Your CC permit is not recognized by all states, so it is treated differently. For instance, CA only recognizes a few states CCW.

-Geaux

If my CC permit was treated differently than yours because I'm gay, he and you would have a point. It isn't. My CA CC permit is treated exactly the same as anyone else's CA CC permit. My CA marriage license, however, is not treated the same as one issued to a straight couple...despite it being the exact same license issued by the exact same authority.

Your missing the point. The states are controlling the differences between Ca vs other states CC requirements.

-Geaux

False comparison fallacy.

The different criteria used to establish eligibly for a CCW is not the same as denying same-sex couples access to marriage law.

Thats simply wrong.
No one is denying same sex couples anything. The states set criteria and the couple either meets those criteria or they dont. Just like a carry permit.

The criteria for exclusion require a valid state interest and a logical reason. And the State can produce neither.

 

[Seawytch]

He didn't say you didn't like the 2nd Amendment, he asked why have a Constitution if the states can just say "fuck you, I do what I want".

The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right and therefore, anti gay marriage bans based solely on animus are being found unconstitutional...just like handgun bans were.

"The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right"
Not correct.
SCOTUS will not rule on the question until April when the Court will hear 4 cases regarding the issue.
Now, you are free to maintain your position. However, let's be clear. The above is your opinion.
Court will rule on same-sex marriage UPDATED SCOTUSblog

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Not in most of the states they don't...but the SCOTUS will take care of the bakers dozen left.

Argument 2.

^^^Rabbi's rules of deflection^^^

SCOTUS will follow the precedent of Windsor and declare states are empowered to decide what constitutes marriage.

Maybe...but they will strike down DOMA. If TN doesn't want to marry gays, fine....but they WILL have to recognize my legal civil marriage.

 

[Skylar]

"The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right"
Not correct.
SCOTUS will not rule on the question until April when the Court will hear 4 cases regarding the issue.
Now, you are free to maintain your position. However, let's be clear. The above is your opinion.
Court will rule on same-sex marriage UPDATED SCOTUSblog

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Not in most of the states they don't...but the SCOTUS will take care of the bakers dozen left.

Argument 2.

^^^Rabbi's rules of deflection^^^

Its his tell. He alludes to 'secret arguments' that completely refute what he disagrees with. But he doesn't have time to explain. Or he did explain....but can't cite, reference, or locate.

Its Rabbit's white flag.

 

[Silhouette]

Same-couples are being denied that right, the right to equal protection of the law.

Yes, and so are polygamists, single parents, wolves and incestuous pairs/groups. All can "raise children". But should all marry?...

FROM THE PRINCE'S TRUST STUDY: http://www.princes-trust.org.uk/pdf/Youth_Index_jan2011.pdf
Page 8 (the left side on the green background)

In addition to indexing the happiness and wellbeing of young people, the report explores some significant demographic differences between young people. They include a comparison between those not in education employment or training with their peers...those without a positive role model of their gender in their lives (women without a positive female role model and men without a positive male role model) and their peers...those with fewer than five GCSEs graded A* to C (or equivalent) with their peers... Respondents are asked how happy and confident they are in different areas of their life. The responses are converted to a numerical scale, resulting in a number out of 100-- with 100 representing entirely happy or confident and zero being not at all happy or confident.

Page 10 (The bold largest heading above the material that followed it)

Young people without a role model of the same gender in their lives

The UK periodical's summation of that study: Teens without parent role model are 67 per cent less likely to get a job Daily Mail Online

Young men with no male role models in their lives and women without a mother figure struggle to keep their lives on track, a hard-hitting report warns today. The Prince’s Trust youth index, the largest survey of its kind, found that....67 per cent more likely to be unemployed than their counterparts. They are also significantly more likely to stay unemployed for longer than their peers, the report suggests....It found that young men with no male role model are 50 per cent more likely to abuse drugs and young females in the corresponding position are significantly more likely to drink to excess..

Young men with no male role model to look up to were twice as likely to turn or consider turning to crime as a result of being unemployed...The report, which was based on interviews with 2,170 16 to 25-year-olds...These young men are also three times more likely to feel down or depressed all of the time and significantly more likely to admit that they cannot remember the last time they felt proud...They are also significantly less likely to feel happy and confident than those with male role models, according to the figures....The Prince’s Trust report, which was carried out by YouGov, suggests young people without male role models are more than twice as likely to lack a sense of belonging.

The states have a vested interest in incentivizing the best formative environment for kids to keep the welfare, prison and mental ward numbers down.. This might be some of the exceptional "legalistic argle-bargle" that might cause Scalia (dissenting Windsor opinion) to sit up straighter in his chair and take a second look..

 

[Syriusly]

70 Percent of Alabama Voters Still Against Same-Sex Marriage
Posted: Jan 27, 2015 4:33 PM PSTUpdated: Jan 28, 2015 6:39 AM PST
By Tiffany McCall
CONNECT


MOBILE, Ala. -An exclusive News 5 statewide poll in partnership with Strategy Research shows that Alabama voters have not changed their views on gay marriage to any great degree in the past decade. Our telephone poll of 3,116 registered voters shows that seven out of 10 polled still oppose allowing gay marriage despite recent court rulings here in Alabama and across the nation.

In 2006, an amendment to the Alabama constitution was passed with the support of 81 percent of voters. So, the poll indicates that in ten years, support for allowing gays to marry has only changed 10 percent. The News 5 poll was conducted across the entire state today and has an accuracy rate of plus or minus two percent.

The results breakdown like this: A total of 3,114 registered voters participated: those opposed totaled 2,177 (70%) and 937 (30%) said they support gay marriage in our
state.

Oppose Gay Marriage in Alabama --- 2,177 - 70%

Support Gay Marriage in Alabama --- 937 - 30%



70 Percent of Alabama Voters Still Against Same-Sex Marriage

Interracial Marriage Many Deep South Republican Voters Believe Interracial Marriage Should Be Illegal
The survey also found that 21 percent of likely GOP voters polled in Alabama believe that interracial marriage should be illegal.

Although the Supreme Court declared anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional more than four decades ago in 1967, Alabama kept a state-level law on the books until 2000. Many mixed-race couples in the Deep South are still struggling to feel safe and be accepted in their communities.

70% of Americans opposed mixed race marriage in 1972.

In U.S. 87 Approve of Black-White Marriage vs. 4 in 1958

We don't rely upon voters to protect American's constitutional rights.

 

[Silhouette]

Race has nothing to do with sexual lifestyles. Ask Anne Heche.. Say goodbye to your premise..

 

[The Rabbi]

"The right to marry has been declared a fundamental right"
Not correct.
SCOTUS will not rule on the question until April when the Court will hear 4 cases regarding the issue.
Now, you are free to maintain your position. However, let's be clear. The above is your opinion.
Court will rule on same-sex marriage UPDATED SCOTUSblog

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Not in most of the states they don't...but the SCOTUS will take care of the bakers dozen left.

Argument 2.

^^^Rabbi's rules of deflection^^^

SCOTUS will follow the precedent of Windsor and declare states are empowered to decide what constitutes marriage.

Maybe...but they will strike down DOMA. If TN doesn't want to marry gays, fine....but they WILL have to recognize my legal civil marriage.

Not a deflection. Poinnting out the obvious. Gay marriage supporters have 2 arguments, both of them wrong.
TN does not have to recognize any marriage. To do so would mean the most liberal states could impose their standards on anyone else.

 

[Seawytch]

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Not in most of the states they don't...but the SCOTUS will take care of the bakers dozen left.

Argument 2.

^^^Rabbi's rules of deflection^^^

SCOTUS will follow the precedent of Windsor and declare states are empowered to decide what constitutes marriage.

Maybe...but they will strike down DOMA. If TN doesn't want to marry gays, fine....but they WILL have to recognize my legal civil marriage.

Not a deflection. Poinnting out the obvious. Gay marriage supporters have 2 arguments, both of them wrong.
TN does not have to recognize any marriage. To do so would mean the most liberal states could impose their standards on anyone else.

Gay marriage supporters have all the WINNING arguments.

So states that do allow 1st cousins and 15 year olds are "imposing their will" on states that don't?

 

[Syriusly]

Same-couples are being denied that right, the right to equal protection of the law.

Yes, and so are polygamists, single parents, wolves and incestuous pairs/groups. All can "raise children". But should all marry?....

What have you got against single parents getting married?

And now you are against wolves marrying also? LOL......

 

[Syriusly]

Not correct. The SCOTUS has already declared marriage a fundamental right. It's called precedence.

14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right

No one lacks the right to get married.

Not in most of the states they don't...but the SCOTUS will take care of the bakers dozen left.

Argument 2.

^^^Rabbi's rules of deflection^^^

SCOTUS will follow the precedent of Windsor and declare states are empowered to decide what constitutes marriage.

Maybe...but they will strike down DOMA. If TN doesn't want to marry gays, fine....but they WILL have to recognize my legal civil marriage.

Not a deflection. Poinnting out the obvious. Gay marriage supporters have 2 arguments, both of them wrong.
TN does not have to recognize any marriage. To do so would mean the most liberal states could impose their standards on anyone else.

That is one of the questions that the Supreme Court is going to be deciding.

Stay tuned.

 

[The Rabbi]

No one lacks the right to get married.

Not in most of the states they don't...but the SCOTUS will take care of the bakers dozen left.

Argument 2.

^^^Rabbi's rules of deflection^^^

SCOTUS will follow the precedent of Windsor and declare states are empowered to decide what constitutes marriage.

Maybe...but they will strike down DOMA. If TN doesn't want to marry gays, fine....but they WILL have to recognize my legal civil marriage.

Not a deflection. Poinnting out the obvious. Gay marriage supporters have 2 arguments, both of them wrong.
TN does not have to recognize any marriage. To do so would mean the most liberal states could impose their standards on anyone else.

Gay marriage supporters have all the WINNING arguments.

So states that do allow 1st cousins and 15 year olds are "imposing their will" on states that don't?

Argument #2.
They are. How often does that happen?

 

[Seawytch]

Not in most of the states they don't...but the SCOTUS will take care of the bakers dozen left.

Argument 2.

^^^Rabbi's rules of deflection^^^

SCOTUS will follow the precedent of Windsor and declare states are empowered to decide what constitutes marriage.

Maybe...but they will strike down DOMA. If TN doesn't want to marry gays, fine....but they WILL have to recognize my legal civil marriage.

Not a deflection. Poinnting out the obvious. Gay marriage supporters have 2 arguments, both of them wrong.
TN does not have to recognize any marriage. To do so would mean the most liberal states could impose their standards on anyone else.

Gay marriage supporters have all the WINNING arguments.

So states that do allow 1st cousins and 15 year olds are "imposing their will" on states that don't?

Argument #2.
They are. How often does that happen?

It doesn't matter how often it happens, FF&C requires that those marriages be recognized. The same will be true for SSM after June.