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Besides, the majority of palistanians in Lebanon ran there from Jordan.
Rhodes -
I think it is important to note the difference between refugees with asylum seekers.
The latter is fantastically hard to determine, but refugees not so much so, I'd have thought.
I wonder if you would be quite so dismissive of the claims of Palestinians rights to refugee status if they were white - it is very difficult for people to remove their own sense of hatred from the situation and be objective.
Rhodes - I think it is important to note the difference between refugees with asylum seekers.
I wonder if you would be quite so dismissive of the claims of Palestinians rights to refugee status if they were white - it is very difficult for people to remove their own sense of hatred from the situation and be objective.
You are falling into the trap of trying to attack someone personally when you disagree with their assessment or made a factual error - don't.
You don't seem terribly objective to me - you seem wildly anti-Palestinian.
The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.
Palestine has never existed before or since as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.
There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.
But thats too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.
I know what youre going to say: Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islams third most holy sites.
Not true. In fact, the Quran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Muhammad ever visited Jerusalem.
So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? Muslims today cite a vague passage in the Quran, the 17th Sura, entitled The Night Journey. It relates that in a dream or a vision Muhammad was carried by night from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs. In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And thats as close as Islams connection with Jerusalem gets myth, fantasy, wishful thinking. Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.
Myths of the Middle East
Ol' Hoss is the anti-Palestinian here. You can dump all your diatribe on me.Rhodes -
Syrians may well be claiming asylum from their own govermnent, absolutely. Palestinians in Gaza likewise could be claiming asylum from Hamas, no?
But SOME Palestinians also have a claim for asylum from Israel, I would think. Certainly I can understand some people their lives and livelihoods have been ruined by the wall, by collective punishment and detention without trial. We know for a fact these things happen.
I agree many Arab states blame Israel and the US for their own failings - but this does not mean that occasionally they are right to blame Israel, in particular.
As for your second point - given much of your positng seems to amoint to abuse, ridicule and name-calling, I hadn't imagine you'd be terribly sensitive in return. I can only assume this sentence:
You are falling into the trap of trying to attack someone personally when you disagree with their assessment or made a factual error - don't.
is a Stone-eque piece of self-irony.
You don't seem terribly objective to me - you seem wildly anti-Palestinian.
btw. I am delighted to hear you have lived in the region - it puts you a few steps up on the like of Stone and Co.!!
Ol' Hoss is the anti-Palestinian here. You can dump all your diatribe on me.Rhodes -
Syrians may well be claiming asylum from their own govermnent, absolutely. Palestinians in Gaza likewise could be claiming asylum from Hamas, no?
But SOME Palestinians also have a claim for asylum from Israel, I would think. Certainly I can understand some people their lives and livelihoods have been ruined by the wall, by collective punishment and detention without trial. We know for a fact these things happen.
I agree many Arab states blame Israel and the US for their own failings - but this does not mean that occasionally they are right to blame Israel, in particular.
As for your second point - given much of your positng seems to amoint to abuse, ridicule and name-calling, I hadn't imagine you'd be terribly sensitive in return. I can only assume this sentence:
You are falling into the trap of trying to attack someone personally when you disagree with their assessment or made a factual error - don't.
is a Stone-eque piece of self-irony.
You don't seem terribly objective to me - you seem wildly anti-Palestinian.
btw. I am delighted to hear you have lived in the region - it puts you a few steps up on the like of Stone and Co.!!
Ol' Hoss is the anti-Palestinian here. You can dump all your diatribe on me.Rhodes -
Syrians may well be claiming asylum from their own govermnent, absolutely. Palestinians in Gaza likewise could be claiming asylum from Hamas, no?
But SOME Palestinians also have a claim for asylum from Israel, I would think. Certainly I can understand some people their lives and livelihoods have been ruined by the wall, by collective punishment and detention without trial. We know for a fact these things happen.
I agree many Arab states blame Israel and the US for their own failings - but this does not mean that occasionally they are right to blame Israel, in particular.
As for your second point - given much of your positng seems to amoint to abuse, ridicule and name-calling, I hadn't imagine you'd be terribly sensitive in return. I can only assume this sentence:
is a Stone-eque piece of self-irony.
You don't seem terribly objective to me - you seem wildly anti-Palestinian.
btw. I am delighted to hear you have lived in the region - it puts you a few steps up on the like of Stone and Co.!!
Saigon is uneducated and unaware that Jews were called palestinians during the British Mandate. He's not to be taken seriously.
If the Arabs had accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have been a refugee. Truly what the Arab countries did to their Palestinians is hard to ever forgive.
The Palestine Refugee Problem
Palestinians are Arabs from Arab countries. What is stopping them from returning?
Palestinians are Arabs from Arab countries. What is stopping them from returning?
About 3,000 years of permanant inhabitaed in Palestine.
In other words, about 2,000 years more than that which stops half of Central America moving to Spain.
Why don't all Indonesians move back to Thailand?
Why don't all white South Africans move bck to Holland?
Wy don't all Hunagrians move back to Russia?
Twezeerman -
Do you believe that Italy and Germany are legitimate states?
Which concept of the three (Italy, Germany, Palestine) if the oldest?
Honestly, dude, this is such an obvious point. If there was no Germany and no Italy 200 years ago, how can you complain about there not being a Palestine as if this was some important information?
The history of the occupation of land is not tied to the existance of nation states!
If the Arabs had accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have been a refugee. Truly what the Arab countries did to their Palestinians is hard to ever forgive.
The Palestine Refugee Problem
Well M they the Palestinians were put between a Rock and a Hard place,but I agree with you in as much that the Palestinians have NOTHING TO THANK ANY ARABIC NEIGHBOUR FOR and in the end it will be the will of the Palis and Israelis to reach a settlement,finally.
steve
Not only did the surrounding Arab countries leave tens of thousands of Palestinians as refugees & dump millions of others on Israel after the 67 war but now they won't even grant them a right of return back to their homelands. And to make matters even worse for the Palestinians, Israel makes peace offerings to them, builds a security fence & concedes land to them so they can stay in Israel.
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Tweezerman -
Please try and stay on topic. Please address the point raised, and post honestly.
YOU raise the issue of the legitimacy of a Palestinian entity - let's discuss that, that alone, no?
